Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

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1065 days, 15 hours, 1 minutes ago

Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games available? The only "Non-Melee" games generated by the site are two sectors that already have 27 players vying for 22 spots. I hope the site adds another Campaign choice soon.

1065 days, 14 hours, 59 minutes ago

edward jellico

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

No. But us two must be alone! Can alone be plural?

1065 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Ha, my guess is there are more than of few of us. The site encourages gaining all these cool, new ships and advantages, but makes it too hard to try them out.

1065 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Here's a Campaign game that's waiting for two more players:

http://planets.nu/#/sector/192944

1065 days, 14 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Campaign game waiting for players:
http://planets.nu/#/sector/193286

1065 days, 14 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Yeah, I saw that. The problem is with just the two choices it becomes hard to grab a race you like. Anyway, I bet a third Campaign choice (Non Melee) would be welcomed by more than a few players.

1065 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes ago

the green knight

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

I have a game set up in my role played campaign setting. Those who wish to role play are very welcome.

http://planets.nu/#/sector/196183

Here is the back story:
The first three years of battle 160827 for the Bad Lands saw both the Republic and the Galactic empire ousted by the Orion Syndicate and their cronies. The insidious Romulan Star Empire offered help to both the Gorn as well as to the Klingons in their war with each other and ended up betraying the Klingons and annexing what was left of the Gorn swiftly after that.

The four fugitive races have fled the sector while still at each other's throats, the greater powers have sent their captains and legions after them to ensure they will never return to challenge their rule over the domains which were once theirs. In their flight they got trapped in the gravity well of a massive black hole warping space around it into a shrinking sphere which will suck them all up in 80 months. Federation engineers worked feverishly on the problem and found a possible escape. They broadcast plans for a gigantic web of planetary gravitonic accelerators which should be able to create a gravitic tunnel which can be used to escape, but it will take the combined gravitic force of about a hundred systems to pull it of. Each race is using it's scientific resources to try to gain enough systems to escape. Fortunately there are plentiful desperate advanced natives and high mineral densities helping them.

Will the Republic and Galactic Empire be able to set aside their differences to face their common foe? Can the Gorn forgive the Klingons for turning their people in fashion accesories? Will the Klingons be able to make good on their threat to avenge the Romulan betrayal? Will the Orion captains and Romulan commanders stick to their orders or do anything to make it out alive? Will any of them ever be heard from again? Find out in Bad Lands III: The enemy of my enemy

1065 days, 9 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Also, you can also host a game on your own.

1065 days, 7 hours, 27 minutes ago

kelmain

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

A big part of the problem is that there are not enough players for any of the formats, campaign, classic, "standard", horwasp, etc. to support a great deal of variety in scenarios while still matching up players of even approximately similar experience level. You can only divide 1000 so many times before you get a number less than 11 (or 30 or however many play your style of game). This problem cant be addressed short term and trying to increase variety on a static player base will only exacerbate in-game issues like unequal experience, dropping, farming, etc. I personally wish we would see fewer styles of game and better quality of games.

1065 days, 6 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

That's an excellent point, @Kelmain.

My suggestion? Let's improve the MvM experience with some live Mentors, and let's advertise the game on our social media accounts. Two simple things that will get us more players, and it's very easy for people to do one or the other.

I'll be putting up a revised set of MvM messages to the Mids in the fairly near future, if anyone wants the mindlessly easy approach to mentoring. All you have to do is sign in and play your turn, pasting a message to the in-game Feed each time, and answering any simple question the new players might have.

(I think of them as "Mentor And Minion" games myself. It's so pleasant imagining my opponents are short, yellow, goggle-sporting gabble spouters.)

1065 days, 6 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

(This is the innovative "Bake A Second Cake" solution to the classic "Have Your Cake And Eat It Too paradox so beloved of mothers and maiden aunts.)

1065 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@Tom, I resorted to essentially host and publicize a new Campaign game, when I needed one. Some with settings matching closely system-generated games, others with more spice on it (es: blind score, Sphere). The time to fill up a Campaign game can be in the months, be warned.

I really would like to see a stat reporting the percentage of NU players that played an entire Campaign game (i.e. not dropped / just tried it out a little) with respect to the total number of players. I would wildly guess we could be a third of the mass, or less.

But we are so noisy, we could appear more than we actually are!

1065 days, 2 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

One option would be to STOP site run games altogether.

We all know that the site run games are the games with the majority of the problems.

They have no special "house" rules.

No additional rules like:

No preformed alliances.
Backstabbing is allowed in this game.
A certain level of acceptable behaviour.
No communication.
You must communicate a lot.
No Merlins allowed.
Certain races must not build these sort of ships.
Roleplaying is wanted.
No Horwasps in this pick your own format.
Etc

There is no instant moderation for a "house" rule infringement as in site games only easily provable one person with multiple accounts is enforced.

And I expect Admin will not respond in custom games with "did this player sneakily gsX / SB force surrender a ship as its against our house rules" as they are too busy to respond to these requests.

In a site run game you cannot expect any "house" rule to be in force. So you should expect anything to happen from preformed alliances to anyone to go against your personal playing style. And this may in some cases make you think you have wasted several months of your life playing in a game that was not what you though it was.

At least with custom games with house rules these can be tailored to peoples playing styles and people can be happier.

Unfortunately custom games hosts cannot enforce all of their game rules unless they become obvious in the game or can be checked up on after the game finished.

I propose we actually limit site run games.

I propose we get volunteer "Super Hosts" who set up games with a set of house rules tailored to certain playing styles. They don't play in the games and cannot influence the game in any way but they occasionally monitor their games for house rule breaches. So everyone can be sure they will be watched and any obvious house rule deviations can be brought up instantly in most cases.

More people will be happier knowing that obvious cheaters of house rules will be caught during the game and not at the end. Also you will be able to join more games with house rules to meet your playing style as they can be set up easily as the "Super Host" who can maybe have forums with a vote for which style of game to create next.

1064 days, 23 hours, 59 minutes ago

the green knight

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@Martinr

I think your super-host proposal has merit, but we do not want it to become difficult or bewildering for newbies wandering in. The game has a steep enough learning curve as it is.

I have not been in any MvM game myself so I don't know if there is any attention spent on the moral aspects of trying to win a game, but this could be an avenue to prevent problems by raising good players and making them aware of the present communities standards.

1064 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes ago

mcnimble

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

How about tweaks in the current Game List pages to start with?

Pretend I am midway my first MvM, and looking for a second game, as my mentor has advised me not to start one sooner than that.
1) I click on Game List, and I am presented with Championship games. Awesome! How do I join? You don't.
2) I click on New Games, sure enough, a Standard Beginners game, the race I want is open and I join.
3) But wait, what is Academy? Is that the same as MvM but then more advanced? Oh, and I cannot join with my web browser, why is that?
...

For my 3rd game, I'm drowning in options and unknowns.
How about:
- Having a direct link from the Games List page to the list with game types, because here is where that matters
- Explaining/linking the 2-ranks-below-highest-rank on theses pages, because, again, here is where it matters.
- same for all the FAQs asked about joining games, in fact. So easy, so helpful.
- not going to champ games by default. A single line of text stating they are for VA+ players might also do the trick.
- showing the actual Open race instead of Any race (clicking to look and then going back will scroll the page back to the top, really annoying)
- filtering out games I cannot join (because of rank, tenacity, platform, everything)
- allowing ME to filter by race/#trns p wk/type of game/etc
- when I filter, showing results of Open/Interested/New together (I will filter on that if I care)
- at least letting me sort the list of open games on existing columns

I do find it funny that Full and Finished games also have a column with Open positions.

1064 days, 21 hours, 26 minutes ago

qinic

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@McNimble, I like all your ideas but would be happy just to be able to sort and or filter.

1064 days, 21 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

I wish this script still worked; https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/6010-planets-nu-open-slot-filter-plugin

1064 days, 19 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

> I propose we get volunteer "Super Hosts" who set up games

Setting up games is something that many people don't know how to do properly. There are a lot of custom games out there with settings that give an advantage to one race or another. For the most part, I believe this is accidental.

The point here is that you don't want just any volunteer. You want a volunteer who understands the settings and their impact on the various races. We're working on a Guide for this, but there are a lot of interactions that need to be considered.

1064 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes ago

challengespaceyard

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

I concur with Whisperer. Heck, I do not even know how my potential "Matchmaking system" (linked in my profile) is going to work out.

I do not yet have an opportunity to create a game of that caliber with live players. While I have done a few tests with fake players in the past, I have not done one since updating my rule sets, so I am once again in the dark.

1064 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes ago

hays

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Why melee campaign? and all the other autogenerated stuff without interest?

Just three types of system generated games.
Classic, Standard, Campaign.
One game full and started opens the next one.
Now it seems one game finished opens the next one.

Interested Section
-----------
Beginner, Intermediate, Senior
in all variations:
Melee, Team, One vs All, Die Hard, Lone Wolf.
Random.

1064 days, 15 hours, 45 minutes ago

major tom

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Why not Melee campaign? It is so much fun! Never Boring, and with FOF, they don't take too long either.

1064 days, 14 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

How about 11 player campaign games? But, let players choose their race, just like a Melee game. Right now, there is a limit of 2 players of each race in (choose your own race) games with 12 or fewer players. Even that limitation is a huge improvement. Even better, would be that limit lifted.

So, instead of Campaign games with 11 different races, have Campaign games with 11 "Choose Your Own Race" slots) - all other parameters the same.

1064 days, 12 hours, 41 minutes ago

the green knight

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@McNimble and @Hays

Excellent suggestions! I hope the admin will pick on them. Should not be hard to implement and will do wonders for player retention I am sure! I suggest you forward them to admin. You have my vote!

1064 days, 12 hours, 14 minutes ago

mandrake

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

There are a lot of great suggestions here. My only question is how do we get and retain new players? Any type of game that would accomplish that would be great.

I am not sure if there is any way to improve on the mentor vs midshipman format, except it is MY experience that the mentors seldom offer information. You usually have to ask. Also in the few instances mentors have offered information, it has usually been pretty plain vanilla with only a little value.

Case in point, even a fairly inexperienced player like me knows you need to have at LEAST two star bases built by turn 4 to 6, but NO mentor I have ever seen tells their mentees how to do this using the "star base in a can" method. This information should be disseminated on turn one in EVERY game with a human mentor.

Another case in point, I have never seen a mentor stress that the goal is to build as MANY star bases as rapidly as possible as more star bases = more ships = more planets = more mc and minerals = more star bases = rinse and repeat!

Basically new players also need to know HOW to build their empire quickly and effectively.

Though I have some basic ideas, I certainly can use some help there too!

Also I am learning the hard way in non M v M games how to spot neighbors who are likely to attack you and those which will actually be peaceable and help you! Not everyone who CLAIMS to want peace actually does!

Another topic is when and why do you begin laying mines.

Another possible topic of interest is to discuss how to play each race. There are many races I have no clue how to play, so I avoid them.

1064 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@Mandrake -- If you ever run into me in a game, you'll find I teach the "Merlin Rush" method instead of the "Starbase In A Can", at least for the overwhelming majority of races. By my count, it tends to leave one in a far better position by the time the Ship Limit hits.

(Lizards, Rebels, and the occasional Privateer generally do better with the Can, but given the present day's low mineral levels, even Cyborg are better served with early Merlins.)

You are certainly correct in that the MvM games don't do much to teach, either in play or etiquette. I've spent a year and a half on a project to change that, with indifferent effect thus far. Still, even as unfortunate an environment as we now have remains one of our best recruiting tools -- in my opinion thanks largely to our few human Mentors.

1064 days, 9 hours, 53 minutes ago

talespin

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@Gnerphk What mvm project have you been working on?

1064 days, 9 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

I've been refining different versions of the messages from the computer mentors. The thing is, what I'd really like would be a set specifically designed for each race -- like what is now done in the training games. Of course, that's what the training games are designed for, after all -- but it does make a difference between whether I'd recommend (for example) Starbase In A Can or Merlin Rush, and the names of the pinnacle combat vessels.

Because life took a complex turn or two, I'd stopped major drafting work on the core project back... oh, I'd guess in December of last year or so. Beefer and I hammered out appropriate messages for the first five turns of the Accelerated Start, so whenever that was released. Had to do a little work on other things, and then the Con and the Host Order projects sucked up my attention (plus the whole getting married thing, but all I had to do there was say "I Do" or "I Will" or whatever it was).

Hopefully, once the Accelerated Start revision is complete -- and it's pretty damn major -- we'll be able to put the new versions up someplace where people can access them right here on the Planets Nu site, so even human mentors could access them if need be.

1064 days, 8 hours, 37 minutes ago

crimzonzun

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Slight problem Starbase in a can yes fine, But really should be on a world that grants you a Bonus to tech as most the players will be Free. So limit at bases outside home is 7 Unless the Race grants you 10.

ALSO is Fact Bases should be only helpful if built and can be supported by Money/Resources to make decent ships.

Upgrading every base to even 7's in Hull/Engine/Beam is alot of credits which you really should be working on homeworld tech levels and building ships on 2-3 bases to those levels.

The whole ships reaching 500 and such should be mention but unless they are fed's they really should not be wasting only just empty hulls and such.

It should really be 2 Mentor type games. Basic with out the ship limits in case someone does waste ship slots.

And that has where everyone see's everything in range which in real games do not get that.

The 2nd Game should be more advance settings where ship limit of 500, TEACHING others that they need to use dimplomatic screen and do share intel or such to get the map bigger pictures.

Which also gives the Mentor a slight dis advatnge as they would stop seeing the Player moves unless he has a ship in the area as well.

I Had Suggested the Horwasp Advance game setting that gave 1 2 or 3 homeworlds to start depending total players that way if game does not fill up to 20 players scales game size.

And had suggested the players would start with small fleet as this was invasion of the Horwasp Sector.

of course the Horwasp would have couple soliders and 10/20 or 30 sentrys depending total players random spread out as those do not Move.

Or maybe the Horwasp would be the Advance 3rd type of Mentor game setting.

And Being a Mentor Game every turn a Certain message can be Set up to go out for that turn, Less Bookkeeping for the Mentor and all would get the information.

1064 days, 5 hours, 46 minutes ago

mandrake

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

First I am a paying player. The cost is so small you either have to be a kid with no money at all (come on kids, beg your parents) or a cheap skate not to.

Second, I ALWAYS look for a close (6 million) of high government level natives and no tech bonus vs another with say only a million natives with low government levels but a bonus for tech, I will take the former vs the later. The mc bonus will become extremely important as the game goes on! The lack of a tech bonus will soon be over come with the mc.

Just my 2 cents, but what the heck? I am new so what do I know?

1064 days, 4 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Mandrake, if you are interested to study, here is a link to a Nu game setup designed to look at and discuss how to best develop during the first 25 turns of a game. Not only can you look at how players developed their turn, but you can read comments on why they do what they do. And there are also comments made by other players regarding the development.

http://planets.nu/#/sector/172291

1064 days, 4 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

You're not wrong, Mandrake, except you kinda are.

Early game builds, it's all about speed, and max tech on engines is vital for some ships. Since that costs 4500 MC, we're talking a lot of taxing. Now, in a decent early empire, we're talking 30 worlds or so worth some development, and that usually means with what's lying around you've got a natural limit of five or six decent starbases before the Limit hits, with three or four builds only for each of the later ones.

Some of these are support ships, which is fine; a Merlin and a Neut can come from a cheap base, since neither really needs much for engines and guns. 4500 tech or a Humanoid; not awful. But massive warships, it helps if they've got good guns, engines, and tubes -- maybe not gold-plated, but at least something with some punch. So you're probably talking, at best, a dozen top-end ships per player.

(That's Classic. Priority Queue, maybe fifteen.)

Now, me, I like to have a big stack of Merlins and Refineries by the time the Limit rolls around. And, since I'm going to need them either way, I might as well build them sooner rather than later.

Early game, I'm not likely to have more than a couple full loads of supplies to convert on my homeworld. Which means I'm going to be towing that Merlin around and using it to generate minerals enough for starbase after starbase. Played properly and barring a war, a good Merlin Rush can have your empire at 50% starbases by the time the Limit hits.

1063 days, 21 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@Gnerphk can you point to a game where you did this successfully? I was trying to look through your games but got tired after looking at 3 and haven't found one yet ;)

1063 days, 20 hours, 1 minutes ago

mcnimble

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

To my surprise, https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/6010-planets-nu-open-slot-filter-plugin works fine in my firefox browser! It is aware of ranking, tenacity, races, trns/wk.
It can sort on several properties, including current turn and difficulty.

Perhaps @kedalion updated it?

1063 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

Good Lord, @Dimensia -- My games are awful! In the first several I was relearning; in the more recent, I experiment wildly. Pearl and Leshy, for example, are games where (I think) I do this, but I was using trial and error to determine principles for five different articles. Never ever try to learn anything from my games unless you've got me in there with you; they're a mess. You'll be hopelessly lost, never to be found again.

There's a reason that, in the deep distant past, I opted out of people being able to view my games, back when that was still possible.

1063 days, 14 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Am I alone in wishing there were more Campaign games...

@McNimble: It didn't work in Chrome once the Interest section was added, and I checked it again early 2016, but alas it does work again! Although it doesn't see the Interest section games at all.