Combat Simulator?

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2586 days, 12 hours, 4 minutes ago

Combat Simulator?

Is there a combat simulator somewhere?

I am in my very first game, and things are about to kick off. :-)
But I have no idea of relative ship strengths, against other ships and against planets.

Can a B41 take on a small planet, or would I need a Biocide?
What can i send against a Gorbie, or ssd, or a Nova?

How can you tell how well defended a planet is?

Thanks in advance :-)

2586 days, 10 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

When you are in the game, go to "VCRs" on the left hand side. Then at the very top right side of that screen you will see "battle simulator". In there, you can do everything you need.

2586 days, 10 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Thanks for that -it's exactly what I was after.

And it has given me a greater insight already :-)

2585 days, 18 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

First, welcome to planets.

Second, most of the questions you will have can be answered here on the forums. But as many will suggest as your questions become more and more complex, there is a vast knowledge base on this game on other websites. My personal favorite is http://www.circus-maximus.com/

others prefer http://www.donovansvgap.com/

Both are great sources of information on this deceptively complex game.

2585 days, 15 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Cheers

2582 days, 7 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

It most definitely does NOT give you anywhere close to everything you need.

If you want a really good combat simulator get this one:

http://www.phost.de/~stefan/cc2/PCC2-Installer-20120609-beta18.exe

Just install the VCR only, you don't need the rest.

This one lets you do EVERYTHING you need.

2582 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Capnkill, is that simulator based on thost or planets.nu ?
There seems to be a lot of difference in the behaviour in combat...

2582 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Its HOST, or you can change it to other clients. I have not seen any difference between HOST and planets.nu, nor does planets.nu claim to be any difference between their combat engine and that of HOST.

IF there is any difference I haven't noticed it in my results vs the real game results. The options it provides destroy the NU Simulator, its just a no brainer. Who the heck wants to only fight 1 vs 1 ship, how often does that really happen?

This sim allows you to do multiple ships in any order you want vs multiple ships, vs planet, etc... and you can sim the fights thousands of tiems, then get insanely useful data, such as how many torps min/avg/max ship a fired before it was destroyed, things like that, so you can very accurately use it to load up your battle group with just the stuff you need and not waste anything.

Anyway, I use it, noticed no difference, its been amazing for me. I highly recommend it, but I can't comment on the inner workings of NU vs this sim, but as far as I know, NU claims to be identical to HOST, so the HOST setting on this VCR is what you should use, and no engine shield bonus, which I believe is default.

2581 days, 11 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

The most recent PCC2/PlayVCR simulator has an option for NuHost combat. With this option selected, it implements one difference known to me, namely rounding that differs between HOST and NuHost.

Another difference is that Fed 25% shield repair happens before the fight in HOST, afterwards in NuHost (and PHost). This difference is not implemented.

Probably there are more differences. However, since it is not possible to download NuHost and experiment with it (I'm not even sure whether the rounding difference actually is in the host, or only in the Nu client), I've stopped research so far.

--Stefan

2581 days, 10 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Stefan, what do you mean by the fed 25% happening before the fight or after?

2581 days, 8 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

I have not tried it due to the reason described in my last post, but it has been pointed out that ships start with 0% shield after chunneling:
http://planets.nu/discussion/web-based-battle-simulator (last post)
http://planets.nu/discussion/does-fed-crew-bonus-work-after-chunnel

In HOST, they start with 25% because the Fed bonus operates before the fight. This is what CCBSim 1.x and PlayVCR implement.

--Stefan

Oh, and while we're talking about combat: which rounding is right? And which rounding is right for taxation? And how about reading the PCC2 license §1 and §3?

2581 days, 7 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Yes in NU, fed ships start with 0 shields if fighting after a chunnel, while in the PCC2 sim they start with 25% since they get the fed bonus applied.

That's the one thing you couldn't simulate with PCC2, but thats a rare scenario.

2580 days, 16 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

This VCR has changed my life...

2580 days, 16 hours, 41 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Combat Simulator?

Yeah, you can't live without if you want to calculate odds in multi-ship-battles. A great piece of software for every commander. Thanks streu!

2580 days, 9 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Stefan; first great job with the combat simulator. You mentioned an option to engage .nu combat rounding. Where do you enable that option? Do I have to turn off the fed crew shield bonus?

2580 days, 8 hours, 49 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Combat Simulator?

In my German installation it is:

Main screen: Crtl - O to open the options screen
Options screen: P to browse through the different VCR-algorithms until "NuHost" is displayed

2580 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Das arbeitet. Vielen Dank.

2579 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Ctrl+O has all the options. "P" selects the VCR algorithm core, set that to "NuHost".

You still have to set the other options, too. They are not automatically set to the host config defaults of this host (after all, the simulator is for simulating hypothetical battles). As far as I know, the settings are
- Engine Shield Bonus (E) disabled
- Fed Crew Bonus (C) enabled
- Random left/right (R) disabled
- Left/right balance (L) 360kt
- VCR algo (P) NuHost

--Stefan

2031 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Ingame simulator is nice. Butnotfully implemented. If I cant set the amount off torps i have or somtimes i don't like to use them its worthless. :-(

2031 days, 16 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

You can set the amount of torps and by setting that value to zero you can effectively turn the torps off

2031 days, 15 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

There ist no combomix to set ammo to zero and at the combo for the torps there is no option to set to none (Mark1-Mark8)

2031 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Use now Stefan's PCC/VCR like in good old days again. :-)
Thank you Stefan

2031 days, 15 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

@Night2day yes there is an option in VCR to change torp numbers.

If you move the mouse next to the Fighter / Torps number and click you will get the option to enter a number.

You can also do this with damage, shield and Crew.

So you can use the actual program that the game uses to run any combination of ships with and without torps and any shield, damage or crew level you want.

2031 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

@Martinr
only th speak of the same thing. I mean the ingame battle simulator you can reach at VCRs -> Battla Simulator. There is a view for

Hull:
Race:
Beams:
Torpedos:
Fighter Bays:
Mass:
Damage:
Shield:
Crew:
Fighters/Torps:

But only the top 4 have the option for changes.
On the others there is no option. Also if i click on or around the fieds.
Is it possible there are different versions of the Sim like for the gamelist?

2031 days, 14 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

If you dont belive i can send you a screenshot. :)

2031 days, 14 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

OK, i get it. After trying to edit the number ons more it is functional. Dont know why this fails the atempts before. :(

2023 days, 5 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Er ... Sorry, guys, but I HAVE to ask this. Is it really true that two Colonial Virgos fighting from the right side will succumb to a single Gorbie in about 50% of cases? This is what the PCC2 is trying to tell me, but I am NOT sure if I am willing to believe it. Sorry for the stupid question. No engine shield bonus, no Fed crew bonus (since no Feds included), no randomization of friendly codes, so they really fight from the right. Yeah, I know I SHOULD fight from the left. But assuming I got the right side ...

Cheers and thanks for your patience,
Bokarati

2023 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Yes, the left/right advantage can be very, very powerful. And Virgos are the worst of the "heavy" carriers with only 80% of the bays of a 10 bay carrier.

2023 days, 5 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Thank you very much. Knew it to be powerful. Didn't remember it to be THAT powerful. Must leave now - feel sick ...
Cheers.

2022 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Is there a combat simulator out there that can handle "campaign" options like double beams?

2022 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

None that I have found. I'm partly happy about it, it keeps things interesting. People have posted a lot of results in threads in the old forums, you might find those useful, and please add yours when you get them.

2022 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

> Is there a combat simulator out there that can handle "campaign" options like double beams?

If there were any documentation (or, better yet, a host.exe equivalent) on these options, I might give it a try.

Last time someone asked this very question I looked around this site but couldn't find any concrete documentation about campaign options.

--Stefan

2021 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

double beam? the host equivalent is double recharge rate of the beam veapon.
Ru25 ru30 and topaz have the ability 10% chance that the torpedo hit them.
(the default value is 60%, as i remember -the host equivalent)
(The 5 combats may be simulated like 5 separate ships -its not a problem),except:
Also it have feature -it can not be captured.(host equvalent - ship attack planet ).
Also, the Ru25 will attack 5 times. the last time it will attack with no beams.

The Lizard's planets have +50% to survive -like lizard's ship.
The shield generator on the fascist saber - gets +25% to the shields (like increasing the shield's mass,not like lizards).
And shield regeneration after battle for Fed.
I am not sure about Fcode NTP on the base. Documentation says the base will attack without fighters.
Thats all for single-battle combat campagin features, which can not be emulated now.
Also, the 1 minehit does the damage on the fed ship like it has a Fed bonus (+50 kT) at this moment. -its different from host.

2021 days, 18 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

thats all i gather on the forum, except: ru25 ,minehit on feds ,and lizard planet i test myself.
And +2 fighter bays from bird red wind stealth carrier to all aliied carriers - i do not find anywhere.And how it interact with fed crew bonus.

2016 days, 14 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Also, the birds can set fc=NTP, which cause the base will not launch fighters in combat. It can not be simulated also.

2002 days, 15 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

The new version of PCC2 / PlayVCR can now simulate some of the campaign features. I have implemented the following ones:

double beam charge, double torp charge
triple beam kill
elusive

To enable these, use the "B" (aBilities) key.

I have taken a peep at the changes Joshua made to the combat code in the JavaScript (replacing constants by variables) and tried my best to map the features to it. The first three are trivial, "elusive" is special (I set the opponent's torp miss rate, which is 35 by default, to 90).

I don't know how the Nu host actually handles these, so I'm open to concrete suggestions how to improve, and how to implement other abilities.

Link: http://phost.de/~stefan/pcc2.html
(in particular, http://phost.de/~stefan/cc2/PCC2-Installer-1.99.22.exe)

--Stefan

2002 days, 14 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Awesome, thank you Stefan!

Is it possible to have options save so I don't have to set 360 KT ballance every time I run it?

2001 days, 14 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Stefan, thanks so much!!!

2001 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

The 1.99.22 version had a bug totally breaking torpedo sims (playing fights with torpedoes worked, as did simulating fights with "Elusive" enabled. Just plain stupid torpedoes didn't.) I uploaded an update:
http://phost.de/~stefan/cc2/PCC2-Installer-1.99.22a.exe
http://phost.de/~stefan/pcc2.html

Thanks for Petri to pointing that out.

I also allowed myself to set the default Balancing mode to 360kt for NuHost sims, so you don't have to set it up every time you start the simulator.

--Stefan

1999 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Stefan, thanks for the hard work on this.

I often go on business travel, only with my work laptop where I can't install PCC2. It's installed in my home system.

Has anyone ported the PlayVCR/simulator of PCC2 to run any newer platforms?

I'm thinking smartphone/tablet operating systems or even web like Java/Adove Air.

1999 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Hi,

PCC2 works fine on my windows 7 computer. It did not work natively like it does on win xp but once I copIed over some of the shareware DOS files into a subdirectory, the simulation aspect worked fine. I have never tried using on a ipad or apple computer though.

MEGA

1999 days, 16 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Wow! Thanks Stefan! Now who made that updated hulls.dat file so we can have the new hulls? (Sorry I should have PM'd you when you said you made it!)

1999 days, 9 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Veldan:
> Now who made that updated hulls.dat file so we can have the new hulls?

I am considering adding a way to define your own ships to the simulator. You could then make the "Ru30" a custom ship. However, I wanted to get the first version out of the door fast to get feedback on the Nu special abilities. But one of the next versions will most likely have that feature.

figak:
> I often go on business travel, only with my work laptop where I can't install PCC2.
> It's installed in my home system.
> Has anyone ported the PlayVCR/simulator of PCC2 to run any newer platforms?

First, if you cannot install it on your work laptop, you can run it as a portable application. Either simply copy your C:\Programs\PCC2 to your work laptop, or use the zip file. PCC2/PlayVCR do not need any registry keys to work (but of course, if there's a social limitation, not a technical one (boss said: "do not install"), I have not suggested this). Also, I am not aware of the simulator needing any files from the DOS version. It is a happy 32-bit application and should run on all 32-bit and 64-bit Windows PCs.

Second (and I'm not making this up), I'm working on a port of PCC2 to the Web that does not suck like the existing one. I guess I can offer a simulator on planetscentral.com in a few weeks/months, depending on my physical (as opposed to virtual) life, which will be open to everyone (not only players who play at my host).

--Stefan

1999 days, 8 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

subscribe

1822 days, 13 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Here is the first version of the promised web-based battle simulator:

http://planetscentral.com/play/sim.cgi

It should be able to do almost everything the desktop application PlayVCR can. To simulate for this host, choose "Standard Ship List" and configure it for NuHost (Options->VCR Algorithm).

Have fun,
--Stefan

1822 days, 13 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Awesome stefan, but getting 404 errors on it

1822 days, 13 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

How silly of me

the link is

http://planetscentral.com/play/sim.cgi

Silly nu aggravation feed.

1822 days, 13 hours, 7 minutes ago

challengespaceyard

RE: Combat Simulator?

That is where the old style link comes in, great for older topics like this one:
http://planets.nu/discussion/combat-simulator

1822 days, 13 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

I like it, most notably that I don't have install software on my computer and that it can run thousands of simulations in just a few seconds. The only initial area for improvement is that it would be nice if the page set a cookie in the browser so that you wouldn't have to reconfigure the algorithm to use NU settings each time you open the simulator. I would love if it just remembered that I use it to predict .nu battles!

Thanks for the tool,

DB

1822 days, 12 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

!!!

Thanks Stefan!

1822 days, 12 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Briljant! Thank you Stefan!

1821 days, 23 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

how about edit max shield above 100% (need to emulate saber shield generator)(and its 25% recharge ability between battles,like fed), and lizard vs lizard combat with left-balance? And, thanks Stefan.

1821 days, 23 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Do anybody know why the desktop version of pcc2 does not compute the ship cost with base tech levels? Seems the "include tech levels" option does not work without any installed game.And this is a problem for Nu planets.

1821 days, 19 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Great thing to have it now also as webinterface.

Question to addon developers:
would it be technical possible to develop an addon that allows a battle-sim setup now on Stefans Websimulator via clicking at ships from inside planets.nu starmap?

1821 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

mip40:
> would it be technical possible to develop an addon that allows a battle-sim setup now
> on Stefans Websimulator via clicking at ships from inside planets.nu starmap?

It is not possible to let a script running in planets.nu talk to a script running on planetscentral.com. However, it is possible for both scripts to talk to each other's API. So it would be possible for my script to download data from planets.nu, or for a planets.nu script to create a file in a user's directory on PlanetsCentral which can then be loaded by the simulator (well, next version, that supports load/save).

PlanetsCentral has a JSON/JSONP API. I have already played with planets.nu's API, but that was a few years ago and my scripts need updating. Maybe you remember c2nuvcr.

--Stefan

1821 days, 19 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

kozack:
> how about edit max shield above 100% (need to emulate saber shield generator)(and its 25%
> recharge ability between battles,like fed), and lizard vs lizard combat with left-balance?

Does it really allow you to have 125% shield? The fed ability just repairs, and you cannot repair what wasn't there in the first place. This is simulated, even with the Host/NuHost difference that one repairs before, the other - after.

Regarding the Saber, I'd still like to see a definitive guide how these abilities work. I still have a queue of mails/posts to work through, but I'm sure I haven't yet understood the campaign abilities in all their entirety.

> Do anybody know why the desktop version of pcc2 does not compute the ship cost with base
> tech levels? Seems the "include tech levels" option does not work without any installed game.

I haven't quite understood the problem :-)

The ship cost never includes tech levels. Tech levels are only included for bases. Rationale: if you have five ships with Tech 10 beams, do you count that as 5x4500 mc assuming they were built on different bases, or 1x4500 mc because they were built on the same base? The option is more to model the usecase that in the endgame you're building bases on every crappy planet, and then up the tech levels just to make the base stronger, not because you intend to build a ship.

--Stefan

1821 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

>Does it really allow you to have 125% shield? Yes, really. It add 25% shield as %, and it add ESB bonus as increasing shield mass. As long as the saber is not killed already. Even 99% damaged ship can gets 26% shield with saber.
My guide is: saber shield generator (if it present at same location and own by same race DURING this fight (not battle)) gives 25% to shield (as per cents), and ESB bonus as mass increasing. Then , left-side bonus apply (gives additional 150 combat mass if .... and shipmass with ESB is more than 150kT),then fight begin.
If this ship survive ,and start a next fight, it gets additional 25% shield as per cents, (but no more than 100 - damage + 25 %*min(number of shield generators,2 )) -(like fed recharge).And then the next fight begin.

>Rationale: if you have five ships with Tech 10 beams,,,
I have a cost of ship itself already, (just by disabling this option), but i also want to see the ship cost with the corresponding base to build it. Yes, for later game.
Anyway, thanks for answer.

1821 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

There can be up to 2 Sabers so it can go up to 150% shields. And an engine bonus of 100% , 50% per Saber.
So at 99% damage you'd have 51% shields. Although that's basically just prolonging your suffering since you'd have next to no weapons functional:)

1820 days, 10 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

I'm not yet convinced. Mainly because I found a line of code in the Nu VCR that limits shield to 100-damage (like in the original VCR).

My take on the Saber ability would be:

Count sabers for each player, limit to two.
Repair 25% shield on each ship owned by the saber owner (including the saber)
Add 50% ESB

Stefan

1818 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

GREAT MANY THANKS FOR THIS!!!!1

Running on mac, havent bothered trying PCC2 before, but this is what i have missed in default simulator.

two questions on how this works:

1 When ships are listed one above another, how is left/right decided? Is this taken into account --assuming it is in the original client, but here in web-based simulator?

2 If i run a sim of three or four ships etc, is there other details available than winners/survivors. I would like to see how badly the ships are damaged after the combat, and maybe how many torps/ fighters are left in the cargo bay for next turn and so on?

1818 days, 16 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

@Anaconda - Left/Right depends on the Fcode and Aggressive level (and probably the ship ID too; if you have a bunch of ships it's probably a good idea to set the ID's).

To see the details (mean/min/max damage, etc) click twice on the ship in the details tab.

1818 days, 15 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

would still be neat to see which one was on which side during the combat.

1818 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

Yes I agree, especially to confirm whether I "did it right" for setting up carrier battles.

1818 days, 15 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

exactly!

1818 days, 12 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

> 1 When ships are listed one above another, how is left/right decided? Is this taken into account
> --assuming it is in the original client, but here in web-based simulator?

This is a multi-ship battle simulator, and it honors battle order. It simulates "what would happen if all these ships arrived at the same spot in an actual host run". It is not just "place this ship on the left, this on the right, go!".

By default, the simulator is configured for PHost (which implies random left/right). To configure it for NuHost, use Options, then set Random Left/Right off, Left/Right Balance 360 kt, and Algorithm NuHost (yes, this will be stored in a cookie for the next version).

When you do that, the simulator does battle order like host would do. If you do not enter anything special, the first ship will have Id #1, the second one will #2, so the first one will fight on the right.

> 2 If i run a sim of three or four ships etc, is there other details available than winners/survivors.

On the result screen, click a line to select it, click it again to view details. On the "Summary" tab that means actually watching the VCRs, on the "Details" tab you get a bunch of numbers like minimum/average/maximum damage, fighters lost, etc.

Stefan

1818 days, 12 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

ok thanks!

1818 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

@Streu - wow, I didn't know there was the actual VCR built into it!! Sweet!

1818 days, 11 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

lol that VCR is awesome!

found it by accident. nice!

1818 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

kozack:
> Does it really allow you to have 125% shield? Yes, really. It add 25% shield as %, and it add
> ESB bonus as increasing shield mass.

Kozack gave me access to a game with a ship already set up to 125% damage (thanks!), and I must say: yes, he's right.

Which is because the version I looked at is wrong. I always use the "old" version, planets.nu/home. This one actually does limit ships to 100-damage. The "new" version has all these consistency checks removed from its VCR and totally trusts host. So if host says "125% shield", it will believe, whereas the old one (and my simulator) will limit it to 100%.

--Stefan

1817 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Combat Simulator?

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