Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

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1218 days, 22 hours, 19 minutes ago

Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am wondering how a D7 performs against a heavy carrier. With the support of 2 Sabre Shield class, it's mass should be pretty good and the extra shield is also great. My question is: does anyone know how many torpedo salves it can fire and how many enemy fighters it can kill? I assume 16 fighters because after that it will target the carrier.

Follow up question: if the shield of that carrier is damaged, does it affect its ability to fight the next fight in a serious way?

1218 days, 21 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

You can put the shield up to 150% in the VCR.

With damaged shields the weapons have to recharge before launching. But it looks like it only effects the beams and not carrier bays.

1218 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

A D7 is a poor choice, you'll be lucky to get off two volleys before being destroyed. Even if all hit that's still just 4 torps.
Deth specula is a much better choice, 2 extra beams and twice the launchers. Making it easy for a follow up ship to finish it off.

1218 days, 21 hours, 4 minutes ago

rimato

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

There is a simulator.. but its not obvious. From the main menu click on 'VCR'. Then in the top right there is a small menu item for the simulator.

Happy Hunting!

1218 days, 21 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Not sure about the 2 volleys, the 2 Shield Gens should boost it to a better level. Yes I can set 150%/200% shield, but I cannot set the mass advantage. If the d7 would keep shooting at the fighters instead of the carrier, it wouldn't be a bad choice to soften it up.

Anyway. If carrier suffer no disadvantage from damaged Shields (beam are reloaded in time against a torper), than it's maybe not a good idea.

1218 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago

the green knight

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

It would make more sense to use a D3 or Death Specula. Then at least you would have four torpedo tubes to shoot with rather than two to damage the carrier.

But playing the Fascists a few D19's should be able to put a dent in the carrier so you can finish it with a Victorious.

1218 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Ships always fires fighters. Not carrier. But even qith 1000kt of mass it would not survive to charge beams 5 times

1218 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago

the green knight

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Use your Coldpain to tow it to where you are waiting.

1218 days, 20 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

As a comedy option, you could also just use a pure SSG fleet. Takes down anything :)

1218 days, 20 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

I know that a Deth Spec would be better, I'd use a Deathstar if I had one in that area. ;)

Iso-T, didn't know that. So a torper without Torps would do 0 damage against a carrier with full fighters? I assumed it shoots the carrier when in melee range.

Pure SSG fleet with Engine 1 and Xray.. sounds hilarious. ;)

1218 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Just did a few sims of this quickly. A D7 would get off 3-4 volleys, best case scenario is a carrier left with 15% shields and 26 fighters shot down. Kind of pointless if you ask me and a waste of a ship.
Especially since you can just never, ever have enough D7s.

Oh and if you want to simulate SSG combat: Figure out the mass bonus of the ship in question. For example a D7 Coldpain has a regular mass of 175kt, with mass bonus it comes to 475kt. Assuming TW engines of course.
1:Find a ship with similar mass, in this case a Darkwing for example has 491kt which is pretty close. 2:Adjust weapons i.e. reduce number of beams to 4 and launchers to 2.
3: ?????
4: PROFIT!!!!!!

1218 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

@Rudel you want at least w7 engines when fighting carriers with SSG fleets, gets the mass to > 320kt

1218 days, 15 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Thanks Siggi, that helps a lot!

@Smn, I assumed that was a joke. You really fight carrier fleets with SSG only? I prefer to mix in some Vickys...

1218 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

@Rudel it's all purely theoretical, but against the heavier carriers like Golem or Gorbie where it is difficult to make a dent with d19bs especially if they carry supplies, you'll lose a couple of Vickies no matter what you do. In that situation SSGs would take out 58-60 fighters each, so it's definitely an option against typical combat loads of 160-220 fighters. If filled to the brink with fighters, then normal Vickies and poppers would fare better.

1218 days, 12 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

It's not just theoretical. I've made it work a time or two ;)
Trying to find exact instances in my games proved a bit difficult though.
I remember a using fleets of pure SSG for battle, but can't remember the game.
Closest I found in my games was here : http://planets.nu/#/sector/108768
Turn 86, a Rush full of fighters taken out with 1 SSG and 6 D19b. Could have gotten away with fewer D19b if I had 2 SSG but game was won anyway at that point so I wasn't worried ;)
Also could have gotten a lot better PP exchange if I popped them but that's always a gamble when trying to intercept.

I love expirementing with SSG by the way. Nastiest thing I could find to work with it was a RU25 gunboat. Shouldn't work together in my opinion but it does.

1218 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Isn't the campaign D3 broken? The one that gets extra mass? I thought Azz used that in a campaign fascist game with SSG, and the D3 (or whatever it was) with the extra mass had no extra crew, so it would soften enemy shields, then get captured, then he would blow it up, rinse and repeat. I think he was blowing up Novas with no PP loss. Memory is shady atm.

1218 days, 11 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

With some testing it looks like Novas would capture SSG-supported D3 Thorns with HP/Mk8 weaponry. Downgrade to HB/mk8 and the D3 usually dies, downgrade further to HB/mk7 and the D3 always dies. Fascinating.

1217 days, 11 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Did some real life combat testing with the SSGs, 2 SSG and 2 Vicky vs a Rush. Well. Lost both Vickys. A 3rd one would kill it I suppose. But a 3rd one would also kill without the SSGs.

So why the heck did I build those SSGs?

1217 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

it will lose....LOL.

1217 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Use sabres for cleaning away the fighters. With double beam fire rate a 10-beam ship is a murder against carriers. Any tiny can with 10 beams destroys about as many as a victorious does. Depending on the carrier it's up to about 50 fighters even against a supercarrier.

1217 days, 10 hours, 38 minutes ago

panzerleader

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Personally I prefer using Victorious or Ill Wind ships against fighter carrier, the 10 beams weapons will generally destroy 40 fighters before the "close" combat phase and while the Ill wind has a better mass the Victorious will fire more torpedoes...

1217 days, 10 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Both Victorious and Ill Wind will be sliced very quickly under fighters once they get to the ship. Fighter count needs to be reduced to close to 50 before using the viccy that is supposed to destroy the carrier.
If used against a properly loaded supercarrier, sabre and victorious end up with about the same result. The sabre is much, much cheaper to build, though.

1217 days, 3 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

Well yes, Mechnomaniac, they will lose. At least you lost a lot more military power ;)

Ok the SSG is another ship that is great for other players (esp. Carrier races) but not for the Fascist himself. At least against Carriers. Because popping is way more efficient than using the shield.

You have to experience it until you know it.. at least without a Sim.

1216 days, 13 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

@Rudel disagree heavily. It's about who you are facing. Against carrier races you can boost practically any light ship with transwarps to over that magic 320 kt of mass. With Vickys you only benefit of the extra +50 to shields which isn't much. But for example 3 d3 Thorns cost you 6pbp to build and gives the enemy 3pbp as kills, but they dish out almost equal damage as 2 Vickies would (3*4 vs 2*6 tubes with similar ability to tolerate damage). If you kill a Rush with D3-D3-D3-Vicky you can replace your losses with the pbp you earn. It's a total game-changer.

And against torp races the Victorius shines. With effective mass of 851kt and additional shields you'll kill Dark Wings and T-Rexes easily, and even the Novas and Annis will have serious trouble, tipping the PBP balance heavily to your favor.

1215 days, 22 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

I agree... Campaign Fascists are a nightmare to kill as another torpedo race... I had 150% Ill Winds fight head to head with my Dark Wings, and wondering when the hell were they going to finally explode... when the 150% Vickies got their turn to fight, my DW was totally crippled...

1215 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

fighters i can afford my friend.....i am the rebels after all....military score lost without losing ships is victory to me.

1215 days, 20 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Fascist question: due to the absence of a simulator, I am...

We'll see next turn ;)