Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

« Back

9 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes ago

Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

Feds & PLS

Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've been playing a series of PLS Lone Wolf games with the Feds to try and get better at them, and it's been fun.

For those that thought it nerfed Fed Refit, let me tell you, refit is awesome in PLS. Being able to use it for captures and being able to clone all game, rather than refitting like mad after the ship limit, I've gotten far better use out of that feature in PLS than any other format.

On an unrelated note, why oh why did it take me this long to figure out that I should leave Fed pop untaxed the entire game for growth. Get all the cash you can use from natives anyway. Though that part of the game where Feds have cash and not as much to spend it hasn't happened to me, ever, in PLS. Total resources matter more.

Quantum Torps. These are a really nice addition. Not overpowered, but really tips the balance in torp vs. torp battles. Capturing ships, refitting with quants and using these on the enemy ships works out very nicely.

Now, I haven't actually won a PLS game with the Feds, and won't likely win either of the games I'm in now, but they're still a more solid contender in PLS than out.

8 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

> On an unrelated note, why oh why did it take me this long to figure out that I should leave Fed pop untaxed the entire game for growth.

I am no Fed expert (more like the opposite of an expert), but I am somewhat surprised by this. I know that the Feds don't need the money as badly as other races, and perhaps even less in PLS, but do you really need the extra colonists more?

8 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

the Feds need clans more than anything else in the game. the double taxes from natives is much more important than the double taxes from clans. :)

GhostWriter

8 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes ago

chanain

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

Growth taxing the HW is fine. Never tax other colonists until they approach max pop.

As to the post itself, I agree that Super Refit still has significant utility in games with cloning enabled. In PLS games without cloning enabled, it's a pretty useless racial ability.

8 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

Apart from it saves on Hull tech cost and time.

Feds can move from a Hull SB to an engine SB to a Beam SB then Torp SB and refit a ship on route saving on the Hull SB cost as it does not need to recycle the ship.

Other races have to recycle a ship so need the hull tech. They also miss a turn recycling a ship then rebuilding it.

Also which neighbour wants all their ships with Quantum Torps? You cannot have a Cloaking Battleship with Quantum torps without Super Refit.

That captured tech cannot be made better without Super Refit.

So its effect is reduced but far from useless.

8 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes ago

mcnimble

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

Super Refit, if anything, allows you to build the hull when the freighter with the minerals and money for the engines and armament still has to arrive.

Also, when you build a hull with SD5, refitting ship(s) with TW becomes much less error prone.

Ship limit isn't relevant in a dogfight, either. And just this little 1-turn-earlier ship is extremely useful (on occasion).

Movement is after refit.

'mkt' works several times per host run, one moment is after refit, yet before combat. Useful, since base mission Load Torps is at the wrong moment.

8 days, 2 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

For late game growth in previous games, I was really crippled by not having enough colonists to spread around. So, not taxing the homeworld really made a positive change for me. In PLS I'm making a lot more ships than any other game. There's also a lot more combat, so I'm losing and replacing more ships. (So many raiding Nocturnes!) Keeping the supply train of minerals and things moving to Starbases is huge. (Without the vapor lock of hitting the ship limit.) My Feds haven't had excess cash, with Quantum Torpedos to buy, but they still have more cash than minerals. But this game has a lot of space to work with. Dynamic in a crowded game might be a lot different.

I've only been using Super Refit on captured ships, but I've been using it a lot. Lots of combat means lots of opportunity there.

7 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes ago

chanain

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

McNimble: We're talking about marginal efficiency gains at best. Sure, there are narrow circumstances where it generates useful tactical options...but it's a far cry from the defining racial ability it traditionally is.

Outside of Lone Wolf contexts, it still pairs with QTs to create some interesting diplomacy options - QTs on cloakers can be rough - but that's still just a pale shadow of the Feds' usual ability to make early Refit agreements that allow allies to pump out cheap hulls before the ship limit.

And for fifty advantage points? I'd rather deactivate it, were it possible.

By the way, it is not usually necessary to put Super Refit ships on MKT. Part of the Refit operation loads the starbase's torps onto the ship. Under most circumstances, it's easier to just build the torps on the base. (If you're trying to Refit more than one ship with the same launchers, and want torps on both, then maybe, though there are usually other workarounds to that, too.)

7 days, 12 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

Do people try to use fed ships to capture enemy ships a lot?

E.g. using a Missouri or Nova with gamma bombs to capture enemy ships.

7 days, 11 hours, 27 minutes ago

sala

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

'Do people try to use fed ships to capture enemy ships a lot?

E.g. using a Missouri or Nova with gamma bombs to capture enemy ships.'

I'm curious about this, myself.

7 days, 9 hours, 38 minutes ago

cpt cheese

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

I used a Virgo and cobol with x rays and 5 mk4 torps to capture a firecloud. Anything can be used if the reward is high enough.

For feds it would be even better as they could actually keep an x Ray gamma bomb fleet around with the knowledge that if they really need to they can upgrade to a battle fleet.

7 days, 8 hours, 44 minutes ago

chanain

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

I've occasionally built 'capture' battleships as the Feds.

Again, Super Refit is conventionally very helpful in this one: When the Borg builds a capture Anni, that's a slot permanently dedicated to that ship, and PPs your enemy will hunt when they realize it's a weak one. The Feds, on the other hand, can upgrade their capture battleships at will.

Again, in PLS, the cost of a capture ship is mitigated for everyone else, watering down the advantage conferred by Super Refit.

7 days, 5 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Feds & PLS Just dropping this into the PLS debate. I've...

I've tried making specific builds with gamma bombs, but really, it rarely works out that way. Usually I just use disrupters for beams and best Torps I can get. You'll never get a Virgo or Gorby that way, but I get enough accidental captures to make it worthwhile. Sadly beams often don't matter in combat unless the torps run out.