Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

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1805 days, 18 hours, 0 minutes ago

Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Gravitronic tow break question

Hail,

Assume there is a Fed Loki ID 10 attempting to tow a Privateer MBR ID 20.

The Fed Loki ID 10 has >25 fuel, 2 engines, and attempts to tow the MBR which can't cloak because of the Loki. The tow is for 50 LY

In order for the MBR to break this tow attempt, what speed and waypoint does the MBR need? I do NOT believe the Warp factor counts double for the MBR when he is attempting to break tow so he must set warp 9 and waypoint >81 LY to break this tow just like any other ship. If the warp factor counted double for the MBR when the victim of a tow, he would only need to set warp5. I have not played Privateers in >20 yrs, does anyone know for sure?

Cheers,

MEGA

1804 days, 15 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

This brings up another question, the target ship needs a long waypoint to break tow. Does that mean the MBR needs 81.1ly or 162.1ly to break tow?

1804 days, 15 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Never mind, 81.1 it is. I stopped reading the towing article too soon! But to answer the original question your warp factor does not count double when attempting to break tow.

1804 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

@Mega,

A couple of nitpicks:

You mentioned cloaking - any non-tachyon ship will also tow the MBR equally successfully, if the Privateer ship is visible to the other player at the start of the turn. Cloaking happens after towlock, so if that is successful, the MCBR would get dragged along behind even though it's invisible.

The >81 LY waypoint range is only if the towing ship has transwarps. If that Loki has speed 8 engines, then the MBR's waypoint distance only needs to be >64 LY, etc.

The amount of fuel on the Loki is unimportant for breaking the tow. It's the *MBR* that requires at least 25 tons of fuel to escape.

Note that the speed at which the towed ship is ordered to travel doesn't affect whether the tow is broken, just the engine rating. If it has transwarps, the MBR can set speed 4 and distance 82 LY to break the tow and end up 32 LY away, if there's a convenient planet there or something.

1804 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Hi John,

Even if you have seen the Loki previously travelling at warp 8 and assume that is the limit of his engines, he could still do a warp9 tow overdriving his engines to try and improve the success of the tow attempt. This makes the MBR have to set the longer waypoint or risk being towed.

"Note that the speed at which the towed ship is ordered to travel doesn't affect whether the tow is broken, just the engine rating. If it has transwarps, the MBR can set speed 4 and distance 82 LY to break the tow and end up 32 LY away, if there's a convenient planet there or something."

Ok, that statement makes me wonder about the definition of warp factor. The 3rd of the 4 fingers below mentions you need to have a warp factor greater then or equal to the warp factor of the tower. I believe warp factor is referring to your SPEED, not your engine strength. This means that the MBR has to set warp 9 and waypoint 82LY to break tow. Warp 4 should NOT work because that is a lower warp factor then the Loki using warp 9. There was a prior question about whether so called gravitronic double warp worked if the Grav ship was getting towed and I believed the consensus was NO but I was awaiting a definitive answer from a Pirate who has tried this recently. (If Grav double warp worked when the victim of tow, an MBR could break another ships warp 9 tow using warp5 and moving 26 LY but I do NOT believe this double warpfactor works as victim of tow, only for the grav ship when he is the one doing the towing)

For a ship to break tow we have to consider 4 factors.
1. The ship needs to have on board at least 25 kt of fuel.
2. The ship needs to have 2 engines.
3. The ship has to have a warp factor greater than or equal to the warp factor of the tower.
4. The ship has to have a waypoint further than its warp factor squared.

Warp factor speaks to the speed of the ship, not its engines. Indeed, it has been said several times that the engines don't matter at all so long as you have two of them and at least 25 fuel. Therefore a grav ship needs warp9 and long waypoint of 82LY to break the tow of a lower ID ship just like a non gravitronic ship. Indeed, a warp 1 engine Merlin could potentially break the tow of a warp 9 ship by overdriving his own warp 1 engines to a speed of warp 9 (his warp factor) and a waypoint of 82 LY. He would break the tow but would end up fueless somewhere.

Cheers,

MEGA

1804 days, 4 hours, 43 minutes ago

lodda

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

The speed not the engines matter, thats what I think too. I found that in blitz games many players build only warp 7 engine ships and go for a rush. Playing Lizards I put cloaked warp 7 engine LCCs on important planets and tow with warp 9 set an incoming battleship just outside the warp well where they meet some of my battleships. To avoid towing target must set a long waypoint warp 9 which he wont have enough fuel for. Or does the fuel not matter, and he escapes? Then he ll end up fuelless somewhere in deep space, not bad too.

1804 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Not quite the question, but I thought I'd point out that the Loki might have less to no fuel next turn... ;) Just keep that in mind.

1804 days, 1 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Hail,

Yes the Pirates have more ways then most other races to defeat tow capture but I wanted to remove cloaking and ignore robbing and just focus on tug of war tow battles with an MBR regardless of its ID. It will always win the tug of war but has to set its warp to 9 and have tow >81 LY to avoid getting towed so it can then tow the lower ID ship wherever he chooses.

Cheers,

MEGA

1804 days, 1 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Hey Lodda,

Thats a very nice strat for blitz games. If you have played against Pirates, I believe it would work for them as well if he doesn't set warp9 and instead uses warp7 because his warp factor is not doubled to 14 if he is the person getting towed.

Cheers,

MEGA

1804 days, 0 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

With the pirates nearby, always set ships to beam up fuel from the planet they are orbiting :)

1804 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Bah humbug. I went and checked Donovan again before writing that just to be sure - it seems to distinguish between "warp factor" and "warp setting", where the former is the equal or greater test and the second is the 81LY test, but the terms aren't defined explicity and might be interchange able. Sorry if I have added confusion.

1803 days, 21 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

That is not to say he/she will not just rob you, flee into warpwell, then throttle out of there, and you won't tow him anywhere. And your intercepting ships will just arrive at the originating planet.

1803 days, 17 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Hi Genocidal,

Rob will certainlY work but fleeing into local the warp well at warp 1 won't work. He will be unable to break your tow assuming you are towing him at warp 9. He needs to set warp 9 and a warp >81 LY to be certain he can break tow

Cheers,

MEGA

1803 days, 16 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Mega,

Loki has 140 kt fuel capacity, MBR 285. Beam up fuel is a mission, so can't tow if beaming fuel. Starbase refuel happens AFTER movement. If he robs you to 0KT fuel, there is no tow battle. You won't have fuel to TOW, so there is no question of you even coming close to 81.5 ly , warp factor, or 25kt fuel or greater. He easily flys away 1 ly into warp well or even further if he decides. Point would be to evade any intercepting ships.
Best bet it to always have him as PE. being at the same spot with a fueled MBR is never a good thing.

Cheers :P

1803 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Hi,

I am focusing only on tow priority and the gravitronic engines. Robbing, glory devices, allied cloakers introduce too many other variables to answer the basic question orignally posted. Double warp for grav ships seems to work only when the Grav ship does the towing and not when it is the one getting towed.

Cheers,

MEGA

1803 days, 14 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Well, in that case. If it is any other race in possession of the the gravitronic ship or an less experienced privateer. You have a chance to tow it.
However in your example; if he sets waypoint to greater than 50 ly he has chance to break since it is a longer waypoint. People reference the 81.5 due to that is the normal max distance at warp 9. From what I understand it will break if his waypoint is any amount greater than yours as long as he can fulfill the other towcheck requirements. I also believe the >25kt requirement is for the victim of the tow. Since you are lowest id You could successfully tow him with less than 25kt fuel provided he fails the speed, distance, and having less than 25kt.

1803 days, 13 hours, 53 minutes ago

lodda

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

4th finger is: " The ship has to have a waypoint further than its warp factor squared "

You can set multiple waypoints for a ship with holding SHIFT-Key. I guess it wont be possible to escape a tow with warp 9 set if first and second waypoint added are over 81 LY, but first is under 81 LY? Or second one is over 81 LY away?

I could argue I have a waypoint over 81 LY away but I will reach it only in 2 turns from now :)

1803 days, 13 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Hi guys,

For a ship to break tow we have to consider 4 factors.
1. The ship needs to have on board at least 25 kt of fuel.
2. The ship needs to have 2 engines.
3. The ship has to have a warp factor greater than or equal to the warp factor of the tower.
4. The ship has to have a waypoint further than its warp factor squared.

Lodda - Not tested but I am sure that shift clicking waypoints so that the 2nd or zillionth waypoint satisfies the 4th finger won't work or would be considered a bug if it did.

Genocidal - If I have the lower ID ship and am towing the higher ID grav ship at warp 9, any distance, he will be towed unless he sets warp 9 AND a waypoint of 82 LY just like any other ship could break this tow using these same settings.

I do NOT believe the warp factor on a grav ship when towed is doubled. If the grav ship sets warp 5 and waypoint 51 LY, he still gets towed. He can NOT satisfy the 3rd finger as his warp factor of 5 is less then the towing ship warp factor of 9 assuming that his warp factor is not doubled when getting towed.

On the other hand, if the Grav ship has the lower ID and sets warp 5, any distance, any other ship (including grav ships) is going to be towed as it can NOT satisfy finger 3 and have a warp factor greater then the towing grav ship which is now warp factor 10 (double warp 5).

I have posted to see if any Pirate knows for certain of if anyone wants to do a test game with me to see if the MBR will break tow with a warp less then 9 assuming I am attempting to tow him at warp 9. I and several others believe the Grav 'double warp factor' only counts when towing, not when being towed. We could also test the shift click waypoint and make sure it doesn't allow for breaking tow. If it could, I need only set my warp 1 engine merlin to move 1 LY a turn but shift click 82 times to have the long final waypoint and I would be tow proof against any but a grav ship.

Cheers,

MEGA

1803 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes ago

lodda

RE: Gravitronic tow break question Hail, Assume there is a...

Testing is always a good idea :) So towing or towed gravimetric ships behave different regarding speed, interesting. Good explanation, Mega.

I also remember reading recently that there were difference between NuHost and old Host regarding this issue about gravemetric towing, so maybe some confusion arises from that? But forgot what the difference was or where to find it.