GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

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106 days, 0 hours, 47 minutes ago

GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

GROUND COMBAT.

Do you find ground combat lacking at Planets.NU?

This could be changes with few simple changes. and then added to in the Campaign options.

First change standard ground numbers to 5:5 from 1:1 and lower the Lizards defense by 5 so 30:10.
see below for each race.( I have played games like this in the late 90's and some players did more ground combat because of it.)
mostly the cloaking races.

This would make it look like below.
attacking / defending
Fed 5:1 / 1:5
Liz 30:1 / 1:10
Birds 5:1 / 1:5
Fascist 15:1 / 1:10
Privateers 5:1 / 1:5
Cyborg 5:1 / 1:5
Crystals 5:1 / 1:5
Evil E 5:1 / 1:5
Robots 5:1 / 1:5
Rebels 5:1 / 1:5
Colonies 5:1 / 1:5
Horwasps 5:1 / 1:5

Would be nice if ground attacking the Lizards as possible for at least one race. With this in mind giving the Fascist 20:10 works well.
Could then look at other races and say Privateers never ready for a fight so -1 defense.
Crystals and Robots not humanoid so +1 for them. (could go +2)
for balance Borg have high numbers so make them weaker on defense but give them the option to use there numbers a bit. 6:4
is strange that 2,400,000 Horwasps only kills few hundred Lizards so give them a small plus as well.

Then you end up with something like this.

Fed 5:1 / 1:5
Liz 30:1 / 1:10
Birds 5:1 / 1:5
Fascist 20:1 / 1:10
Privateers 5:1 / 1:4
Cyborg 6:1 / 1:4
Crystals 6:1 / 1:6
Evil E 5:1 / 1:5
Robots 6:1 / 1:6
Rebels 5:1 / 1:5
Colonies 5:1 / 1:5
Horwasps 5:1 / 1:5

In Campaign could be do like this.

for a +5 to attack or defense pay 5 points for each +5 each.

Remember it's hard to ground combat without cloakers. Unless you the Horwasps or have planet immunity.

I played in games like this in late 90's one had birds with 15:1 attack and they used it a good bit.

106 days, 0 hours, 1 minutes ago

renathras

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I could see there being some room for granularity, but if you make everyone 5:1 at a baseline, this makes no sense, as you also made everyone 1:5 on defense, meaning the baseline would be...1:1 (5:5 is equal to 1:1).

It also diminishes the Lizard and Fascist advantages MAJORLY, and Fascists in particular are already not high on the advantage points to begin with (I believe they're second or third lowest, and that's with having two Glory Device ships that both give them 35 advantage points - even though the Nefarious should probably be 25 or 30 instead.)

Your main issue seems to be that Lizard attack and/or defense is too high, so you could just as easily go with a 25:10 for the Lizards and call it a day.

You can make arguments for some others (I remember playing a 3.5 game where Birdmen were set to 5:1 attack due to being Romulans/Vulcans), but that only works if it's still less than half the races.

When everyone has a ground combat advantage, no one has a ground combat advantage. It's like the saying "When everyone is special/a winner, no one is really special/a winner."

And if you tinker with that, you have to be aware of everything else that changes. The REASON Lizards have such a strong advantage (and the Lizard Class Cruiser) is BECAUSE they have one of the weakest ship line-ups in the game, even with their 150% shield health bonus. They simply can't take out things that are overly fortified. And even WITH that advantage, they are still considered a weak race late game due to their lack of large ships and that 30:1 becomes a lot less late game when planet populations are 10,000s clans and lots of defense outposts to boost their defense multiplier.

Likewise, Fascists are also considered an early-game race (though they do have late-game capabilities via Poppers and Pillage+Planetary Immunity).

Further, all this equalizing doesn't really change anything except for the Rebels and maybe the Birds anyway, since as you noted, unless ships have planetary immunity, planet captures are almost always done through ship-to-planet combat, not ground combat anyway.

.

So again, I see what you're trying to do. And I think there's some room in the game for more variation (e.g. Feds or maybe Robots are good at defense so 1:5, or that Bird flying ships and jumping out in armored bird suits actually DOES give a minor 5:1 attack advantage by "scaring the pants" off the local populations...), but when you get to basically everyone having an advantage, it basically negates all the advantages entirely, to the point of not even having them.

Also: Do keep in mind that defense outposts affect your defense multiplier. I forget what the number is exactly, but if you have lots of defense posts at your planet, the Lizards DON'T get that full 30:1 advantage. By having defense posts for a mere 3x defense multiplier, you cut that down to 10:1 already. Late game, Lizards are having to try to sneak in and drop from Super Transport Freighters, and that doesn't usually end well unless they have a Bird ally changing the FCs away from ATT/NUK. (Birds also are considered an "early game" race - the only cloaking race that isn't is Privateers.)

105 days, 23 hours, 58 minutes ago

rexe

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

Give some races climate bonuses (Rebels get bonus on cold worlds). Give defenders unhappiness bonuses (maybe 5:1 like above if happiness is at 40% and they're about to take up arms and start rioting). Give native modifiers to ground combat.

A starbase/carrier mission that is "air support" would be interesting -- add a multiplier to ground combat.

Between the RGA, Pillage, Lizard 30:1, and the SSD -- there's already a good amount of ground combat content. The Horwasp ground combat also adds something.

The only way to really unleash ground combat is if you could launch a ground assault from the warp well -- even if it takes a penalty.

105 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

Ground attacks from Warp well is a cool idea.

Horwasps attacking with 24000 clans vs 1000 lizards with 80 defposts Lizards will have 670 clans left.

or 1000 Fascist vs 1000 Lizards with 20 defposts
500 clans left.

No one can attack the Lizards without using Pillage, RGA for many turns or using an SSD.
This is why I would like to see there defense lowered not there attack.

105 days, 21 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

Reduce Lizard Combat advantage **GASP**

How about adding a campaign advantage of "Shock Troops" that increases attack advantage, and "Fortress" to increase defense? Point cost per race could be variable, making it less expensive for Liz, Fasc, Bots and Borg. More expensive for Priv, Col, Wasps and Crystals.

Dos

105 days, 15 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I have a better idea, why don't we get rid of carriers. That way there will not be this inequity with the torp races and then everyone will begin to use ground forces. I mean if we are going to take away the advantages of the ground attack, why not take away the advantages of fighters. Come on guys, everyone jump on board. DDDDUUUUUHHHHH.

105 days, 14 hours, 13 minutes ago

glynsalternate

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

@Carlos+Weyland: How old are you?

105 days, 12 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

LOL Today I am 3. Look I am sorry if that appears rude, I just wanted everyone who read the post to know that I was providing levity. I just find it a sign of senility that somehow even-ing out ground combat will make the game better. The problem with the game is much greater than that.

105 days, 3 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I am not talking about taking away the advantages of ground combat for lizards but adding to it.
to do that the Lizards need to be weaken some on defense and some other races need to have there attack increased so that the lizards could be attacked in ground combat a little even then you need to have either twice or more there number and/or they have no defense posts.

what I but up to start was just a starting point races can have much different numbers in the end as @Renathras said give Birds 5:1 you could end up being like this.

Humanoids are 1:1
bonus to non-Humans
could give bonus to Cyborg for implants of +1 attacking only
would still be hard to attack Lizards as Fascist but at lease some other races could do it was well.

Fed 1:1 / 1:1
Liz 30:1 / 1:10
Birds 5:1 / 1:5
Fascist 20:1 / 1:10
Privateers 1:1 / 1:1
Cyborg 2:1 / 1:1
Crystals 3:1 / 1:3
Evil E 1:1 / 1:1
Robots 3:1 / 1:3
Rebels 1:1 / 1:1
Colonies 1:1 / 1:1
Horwasps 1:1 / 1:1

105 days, 2 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

Increasing others attack and defence weakens the advantage of the Lizards.

105 days, 1 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I use ground assault all the time. Every game as the Lizards and the Fascists. Most games as the Birdmen. Most games as the Privateers. A decent number of games as the Rebels. And the odd game as the other races - if I get a suitable cloaker.

It is an awesome way to take a planet if you have patience.

105 days, 1 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

Yes but not by much. (will not effect them at all for attacking)

With these changes the next strongest race the Fascist would need 2501 clans to take a planet with 1000 clans.

The Birds 2th strongest would need 10001 if it got the 81 defense posts it's still not going to happen.

If Lizards got 100 clans and 57 defense posts birds need 771 and fascist need 193. so Fascist could do it but birds will not be so Lizards are still crazy strong in ground combat on defense and there attack was not weakened.

Attacking lizards need 843 clans (3 ships) to take 1000 Fascist now. If this change happened would be 1684 (6 ships). I think vs Fascist this does not happen often once over few hundred clans. It would only add Birds to that list.
Vs Robots and Crystals would be up to 506 clans so 2 ships and everyone else still at 169.

I would thing if this was done today you wound not see any much of a change in the outcome of 90+ percent games in 2 years time. but it would add to the fun factor for many players.

I think this would be enjoyed(used) by new players more then old.

104 days, 23 hours, 27 minutes ago

rexe

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

Lizard ground combat should always be overpowered. A Lizard Merlin loaded with clans should be able to wipe out any planet. 200 Lizard clans should be able to wipe out a full enemy Merlin. A loaded Lizard-Class-Cruiser should be able to wipe out 500k enemy civilians. Enemy commanders should have to ship transports with thousands of clans to the front lines to defend their starbases against Lizard ground attacks.

You can tweak the ratios or mechanics between the other races -- but the Lizards should be the Lizards.

104 days, 23 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I think I have failed to explain my issue. Ground Combat by itself IS NOT a problem. Even if we tweak and adjust, it will IN NO WAY make the game better!

104 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

It may make it better for some players. That look for different options

104 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

it's not that ground combat is a problem it is just that it could easily be improved.

(would think little new coding would be needed.) as was adjustable in old version,

It would add more flavor and fun for players. if more races could take part in it.

102 days, 1 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

had hoped for someone to give a ballpark on time it would take.

102 days, 0 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

All it would take would be for Admin to allow access to the host configuration for private games like the old host.

But they choose to limit it.

101 days, 21 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I personally always thought the Lizards to be overpowered so far as ground combat is concerned. I remember a discussion on one of the hosting sites many moons ago that tossed around the idea that their ground combat effectiveness ought to be dependent on the planet temperature. They are Lizards after all.

Adding a temperature variable would be cool and allow some other races to benefit as well, such as Rebels, Robots, and EE on cold planets or Crystals on hot ones.

I doubt changes like those mentioned above would actually take that long to create. I also doubt they would alter many outcomes. A flavor enhancer only...

100 days, 1 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

would be good if players had to defend aganis Ground combat from more then just the LIzards and Fascist.

and if someone could ground attack the liz even if only on low clan planets.

100 days, 1 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I would say that I ground assault in about 60% of all my games. As the Lizards and Fascists, I have a much broader range of planets and races that I ground assault but there is not a race I have not ground assault as.

Usually, when I am ground assaulting with a standard race, I focus more on desert or artic planets but if I have enough cloakers and clans, I will ground assault much larger population planets. I usually avoid planets with more than 1500 clans (but not always).

There is also a psychological warfare aspect of these attacks. Constant and unrelenting ground assaults over many turns can be frustrating to the defender. You cannot stop them, they are always happening, you are slowing losing clans and you never know when, or if, it will stop. After a while, some people just kill the planet rather than give you a Starbase that is maxed with good tech. This happens often.

There are so many advantages to a ground assault, even if you never get the planet. I am currently ground assaulting in 3 out of my 5 active games. And I will be ground assaulting in the other 2.

98 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: GROUND COMBAT. Do you find ground combat lacking at...

I ground assault in all games where it makes sense.
As Rebel it is standard tactic to HYP in far behind enemy lines, RGA a few turns then drop the clans from the Falcon onto the poor sucker who had build a starbase on an arctic world.

In a recent game I did not fight a single Lizard planet or SB as Rebel but just swept past them and left some captured LDSF doing the RGA and subsequent ground capture of the starbase.

Each time I am playing as a cloaker, or get my hands on one, I ground attack... selected juicy targets.