Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...

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358 days, 1 hours, 2 minutes ago
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sirad
Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Hello Alltogether.

Is there a explicit description upon the Tantrum Liner ?

- how far the ships get pushed away
- do all ships get pushed away (even your own ships)
- what direction they get pushed away
- how to find out if a captured one is charged
- what time of hostrun this happens
- has the mass of the 'pushed ship' has any effect on the 'push'
- how to induct the push, is it automatically ?

358 days, 0 hours, 17 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Have you read the how to play section?
358 days, 0 hours, 7 minutes ago
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grisu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
well MartinR, i tried to provide help to Sirad by linking to the right how to play info 6 minutes after your post, but right now the "how to play" link is not showing anything. might be a temporary problem.
Anyways, providing a link to a specific question is always the best solution.
I guess 30% of the questions on game play can be answered by "read the how to play" but this doesn't provide real help.
358 days, 0 hours, 2 minutes ago
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grisu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
How to play works again.
But only some of sirads questions are answered by :
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/mis-tantrum

According to the Host Order, the Tantrum push happens
after movement but before intercept.
358 days, 0 hours, 0 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
I am on my mobile so linking is difficult.

But the how to play gives all the answers.
357 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
How to play doesn't answer for example:

- how far the ships get pushed away
- how to find out if a captured one is charged
357 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@martinr

There its written:

'The distance the starships will be pushed is based on the mass of the starship being transported, the charge in the TANTRUM device, and the starship's distance from the TANTRUM device (closer ships are pushed farther)'

There must be some formulas, of course.

'But the how to play gives all the answers.'

without being offending, unless a Formula is present, that's wrong.
357 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
No one has likely reasearched the exact formula, but even some ball park figures would be really useful. If I move into planet with a heavy carrier and discharge, how far it is pushed away? 5 ly, 10 ly, 40 ly, 100 ly, 1000 ly? And the same for some smaller ship.
357 days, 22 hours, 40 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@mursu

'No one has likely researched the exact formula'

OMG!

It is part of the host system so it can be published If here everyone shall be able to start with the same knowledge/ruleset. Like Chess. Or wasnt it meant like that ? Even special ships that exists only here i can not Research elsewhere.

I dislike Rules-and-behaviour-Guessing in a 'Strategic-Game'.

[...silent cough...]

I really Feel not comf'table about that.



357 days, 22 hours, 16 minutes ago
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ghostrider
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
if ya can find the original introduction as mod, it might have the math involved , viewable, heck the maker may still be playing
357 days, 19 hours, 2 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
The only people who have direct access to the Host program is Admin. So if they don't want to reveal the exact equation they don't have to.

I personally like unknowns in these sort of equations.

Maybe they could put maximum charge and maximum mass ship will move it approx X LY.

And even think the ground assault ratio should change by a small amount every time. So you cannot predict you need exactly 237 clans assuming defence base X and enemy clans Y.
357 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Ghostrider: Here it is; http://planets.nu/#/post/emperor-mentars-new-ship

[ Note, formula not in announcement, but possibly is in comments, I didn't look ]
___

@Sirad: Here Mentar talks about it: http://planets.nu/discussion/tantrum-liners-the-planets-nu-wiki-says-that-they

[ Note that you have to scroll past Gnerphk's and Whisperer's trolling to find Mentar's post ]

357 days, 9 hours, 4 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
mentar wrote:

'ships which are pushed do _not_ trigger mines.'

documentation:

'Starships being pushed away from the TANTRUM device may strike mines or webmines.'

I feel like having to insert a new quarter...

So we have two opposite behaviours stated. both change the outcome dramatically. Both of them in effect is not possible.
357 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Thats the problem with announcements here. They get announced. They get discussed. They get changed then or later and in some cases it's not even announced that it has changed.

So when BB or Joshua post something you never know if it's just being considered or it has as there is sometimes no documentation update.

I am sure the mine hits has changed though. But have not seen it myself.

So the multiple sources of documentation could be wrong as they may be different due to priorities to what is right.
357 days, 1 hours, 6 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Sirad,

> how far the ships get pushed away

The formula for that hasn't been reverse engineered. More on this later.

> do all ships get pushed away (even your own ships)

Yes.

> what direction they get pushed away

They get pushed directly away from the Tantrum Liner. If they're at the same location as the Tantrum Liner, they get pushed in a random direction.

> how to find out if a captured one is charged

It's in the Starship Interface Pane.

> what time of hostrun this happens

As per the Complete Host Order, it's after most ships move, but before Intercepting ships move.

> has the mass of the 'pushed ship' has any effect on the 'push'

Yes. It appears that the distance a ship is pushed is inversely proportional to its mass. The other variables are the initial distance of the "pushed" ship from the Tantrum Liner, and the charge in the Tantrum liner.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/abil-tantrum-device
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/mis-tantrum

> So we have two opposite behaviours stated.

The announcement was based on the design. The documentation was based on the implementation (actual observed actions).

> It is part of the host system so it can be published

From the announcement:
> There are rumors that Lina herself was involved in the final designs and that Emperor Mentar may not even know all of the finer points of the resulting design.

It appears that the actual formula can only be determined by looking at the results. I spent some time working on this a while back, and it's not an easy task. There appears to be some randomness built in to make the formula more difficult to reverse engineer.


@Martinr,

> But the how to play gives all the answers.

We thank you for the compliment, but in this case, it only gives the best answers that are currently available. Unfortunately, they're incomplete.
356 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
"> But the how to play gives all the answers.

Whisperer: We thank you for the compliment, "

@Whisperer: You do realize a compliment and factual claim (correct or not) are two entirely different things.

No wonder you are imagining insults all the time, you do the same for compliments.
356 days, 9 hours, 11 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@whisperer

Thank you for the information supplied and thank you for not replying to the two childish insulting attempts of the one here we all know.

As i've noticed your last reply you are researching the right formula for the push now ?





356 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Sirad: You have to HAVE the Tantrum Liner unlocked in order to research it usually. Otherwise all you can do is look at Finished Sectors or capture/trade one.

I understand English isn't your native language, but clearly you are confused about what an insult is.
356 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
glyn, as the thread opener, actually you are not welcome in this thread.

You can not contribute to it without having additions like:

[ Note that you have to scroll past Gnerphk's and Whisperer's trolling to find Mentar's post ]

added to it.

Please write a personal mail to @gnerphk or @whisperer or whoever is actually on your hate list, to just clear the differences you have with them and then come back and make some useful contributions here please.

If you want to turn all the feeds here to your personal playground and shitfest, use other feeds, not the one i've opened to gain some useful informations.

If you are able to contribute without adding offenses and insults to it, then, glyn, for sure, you are welcome here.

come on, grow up.

355 days, 9 hours, 11 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Sirad: If you had LOOKED at the thread, you would see that what I stated is exactly true.

I didn't want you to start looking at it, and then think I sent the wrong link and leave it.

While I agree this is your thread, please convince Whisperer of that first. If you are going to align with him, then please follow his rules. He has many times posted in threads OTHERS have asked him to not post in, not to mention my own threads. If you weren't defending Whisperer, I would otherwise oblige as anyone can attest, I always honour.

If their trolling was AFTER Mentar's posts I would not have mentioned it at all. It is a bit insulting that you think so lowly of me, that you think it is an insult.

Again... I have not made any insults or offenses. Why are you making these false claims? Feel free to use the CONTACT form to report it as a Rule 1 violation if you think it is. I want to believe this is just a language difference, and not say another one of Whisperer's alternate accounts.
_ _ _

Also the thread I linked to had answers you seeked... you're welcome.
355 days, 5 hours, 34 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Glyn do you look at your posts?

You mostly have a set format.

Provide information for the poster.

Then throw in a comment that could be a hidden insult or just infact a blunt insult.

Or add a general insult about the documentation to get Whisperer involved.

Or bring up something about another poster in the thread who will get it if they have the email link still up.

This escalates and kills the thread.

In this thread you will see you started it that way.

You may not think you do it in the majority of the threads. But you do. Maybe a app could be created to analyse the threads to give us actual numbers?

If you stopped at the info many would be happy.

But this thread is now dead so everyone ignore it.
355 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Hi Sirad,

when I originally suggested the ship and its effects, I thought that I should not request that a pushed ship should be eligible for minehits, because this would raise the power level of the ship significantly. I intended it to be a flavor ship which enables the Colonies to do some tricky things for the thinking player.

Only later I found out that it was actually implemented. So, I can confirm that the documentation is correct and that you CAN hit mines if you're pushed by a TANTRUM.

As a rule of thumb: If the charge isn't minimal, you can generally assume that a TANTRUM on a planet cleans out the entire planet and all ships within the warpwell, regardless of owner, mass or cloak. By choice and design (TransAstroNomical TRaversion of Unkown Magnitude = TANTRUM), it is impossible to fully predict the outcome. This isn't precision billiards.
355 days, 1 hours, 21 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Martinr

Yes, so yes. always those kinda contributing additions like
[...and not say another one of Whisperer's alternate accounts]

Glyn *could* be useful if he gets control upon his writing-tourette syndrom. He could contribute much because he is a great researcher (and could have found out that My Unworthiness, the TSHQ has a unbroken history stored in the Net (back to 2001) and the Fidonet/VPL-Net back to the early 90's, in a few minutes) he was even using Guides i researched as Teamwork with others ~1 decade ago and invented his own 'special interpretion' of it here... funny

...but he took the other option. Why ? i dont know.

I guess, if we get a working forum someday he will fall hidden into 95%(or more) of all users ignorelist.... So whatever he may or may not contribute: noone will listen then. What a pity. What a waste.

@Mentar:

THANK YOU for the enlightenment and clear statement upon the minehits. This leads me to think about pesky tactics to clear out the warpwells in a >1.5 DM game i am currently fighting in. The distance the ships get pushed away, even a barely eyeballing formula would help a lot because the decision to push the enemy into WEB or normal minefields depends upon the distance the ships get pushed away....

@Whisperer:

I would like to request from you to add to the documentation to the tantrum liner that it was initially planned as hitting no mines. so if someone just comes over the old thread where it was stated that it hit no mines, can look upon and see: okay, both things are right, they just changed to 'Hit Mines' while creating the mechanic for the Ship.

By the way, Whisperer, Is this a accolade to getting accused of being 'one of your alternate accounts' ? I rather keep my independence as TSHQ so if it's now suggested that 'i AM' how long will it takes until it gets 'Truth' ??? If im now supposed to be one of your alternate accounts then you have to take responsibility for all of my actions, am i right ?
355 days, 0 hours, 58 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
€Sirad

Hey I'm also supposedly an alternate account of Whisperer! Funny that we managed to meet at PlanetsCon. There were probably other alternate accounts present as well.

Maybe this is a part of the Joshua's Deep Game and actually Whisperer is the alternate account commonly used by ALL Planets players... or well all except one.

It suddenly starts to make sense. The Deep Game also explains why disciplinary procedures are not used here. It's all about the great plan...
354 days, 23 hours, 47 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Sirad: As a rule of thumb, heavy carriers/Merlins/refineries/full LDSFs tend to be pushed between 5-10 LYs. Filled medium ships in the 10-25 range, and light and empty medium ships can go far (I've seen over 100 LYs, but usually ~50). Effect decreases with distance to the TANTRUM ship.

Forget trying to guesstimate much, there's quite a bit left to chance (intentionally). Have a normally charged Tantrum liner firing on a planet, and the planet and its warpwell will be empty (sans those ships which intercepted the Tantrum Liner in the same turn)
354 days, 23 hours, 39 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@mentar

One question remains. HOW do i set up the device ? just move to that place and if any other ships are around it automaticalle gets of ? Or do i have to set a mission ? or FC ? Im so.... eh.... uneducated :-)
354 days, 23 hours, 37 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
It's a mission. First, you need to charge the TL in an ion storm. Then, you can set mission "TANTRUM", and after the movement phase, this thing goes off.
354 days, 17 hours, 46 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
In case anyone is wondering, Glyn's first post in this thread violated either two or three rules of the off-site Forum (depending on how the Moderator chooses to interpret the post), one of them twice:

https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules#courtesy - He attacked both Gnerphk and Whisperer. The exact issue here was "name calling".

https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules#trolling - His last sentence is definitely "inflammatory", and could be interpreted as an attempt to "get people riled up".

https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules#moderator - He publicly accused two players of "trolling" (Trolling is against the rules of the off-site Forum), thereby acting in the capacity of a Moderator.

That one post probably would have been enough to give him a 90-day break from the off-site Forum. Had he chosen slightly different wording, the same information could have been conveyed without breaking any rules of the off-site Forum.

There were a few later posts by others that would have been Moderated but not penalized.

In this News Feed, he continues his attacks due to the laissez-faire Moderation here. In the off-site Forum, peaceful communications would have continued with only a slight, brief, blip.


If you value peaceful communications, please support the off-site Forum. We need a PHP programmer. @Commandder+Koski has informed me that two people have volunteered to be the Treasurer.

https://www.planets-nu.org/
354 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes ago
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grisu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Whisperer

please add the info from Mentar into the documentation.
Thank you!
354 days, 15 hours, 13 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Girsu,

> please add the info from Mentar into the documentation

The existence of the Tantrum Mission is already there, along with all the "hard" information.

As for the "soft" information, we'd like to have SOME numbers to use. In the meantime his most informative post has been linked in.

I just researched the Tantrum Liner for my Colonies player. I'll do some research, then pass it through Gnerphk. Time is tight right now, so this might take a while.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/abil-tantrum-device
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/mis-tantrum
354 days, 6 hours, 47 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Well.

I had proven somethingthat was visible un my new tantrum liner but havent found inside the doku:

If you Capture a Tantrum Liner that IS already Charged, the Charge remains.
So my Captured Tantrum Liner holds a sufficient charge without any ion Storms nearby.
353 days, 18 hours, 50 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
"Planets-Nu.Org Admin: He attacked both Gnerphk and Whisperer. The exact issue here was "name calling"."

No I did not. I did not call anyone any names. Name calling is defined as "abusive language or insults." I made no insults, nor was I abusive.

"Planets-Nu.Org Admin: His last sentence is definitely "inflammatory", and could be interpreted as an attempt to "get people riled up".

Absolutely false.

"Planets-Nu.Org Admin: He publicly accused two players of "trolling" (Trolling is against the rules of the off-site Forum), thereby acting in the capacity of a Moderator."

A Moderator is not the only person capable of determining what is trolling. If you LOOKED at the thread, Gnerphk came out the gate name-calling and I as usual, totally refrain.

@Planets-Nu.Org Admin: If you have another account at this site, then use that... because you are now using an alternate account to spread lies... what part of Whisperer using his Happy Daze account to agree with his own posts being wrong is confusing you, that you are now doing the same? You are NOT a moderator HERE, so by your own logic, you have violated the rules.
353 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
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aelfgar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Can we talk about tactics? As a CoM player I haven't been able to think of any really large value for these ship, honestly. At least not any that would be worth the 30 advantage points they cost. Is it really as valuable as not having your ships destroyed until they've reached 150% of their damage capacity?

I'm certainly not the most experienced commander or even the most creative. Which is probably why I favor the straightforward tactics of CoM rather than the clever and devious tactics of, for instance, the Privateers.

It doesn't seem like the distance the ships are moved is going to be a great benefit, really. Maybe one turn of inconvenience for everyone involved (including the owner of the Liner) except for quite small ships that might be pushed 100LYs.

The only thing I can really think of is that they would be useful for scattering SB defenders so that you only face the SB itself rather than the SB and any defending ships since it happens before combat. Of course, if you set your defending ships to intercept the Tantrum Liner that would rather negate that use. Which would require you to have visibility of the Liner which isn't always going to be the case. Unless you are one of those sneaky cloaking races, that is. Good thing for CoM there's hardly any of those in the game. LOL. The next turn would doubtless see all of the defender's ships back at the planet and likely the demise of the Liner, as well. Is seems a rather one-shot ship that relies on the presence of an ion storm (something that definitely cannot be counted on) to be of any use at all.

So... What am I missing here, @Mentar?
353 days, 18 hours, 38 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
What we have here is a failure to communicate...

There is now will to make the off-site forum really happen as it has been under construction for so long. So here one person wants to use the situation to "advertise" the off-site forum. But here are two things:

1. I think it's pretty bold to state that this is definitely what would happen in the new forum. What we have are rules and a board of players (Emperors) that accepts the rules in the first place and then all changes into the rules.
2. The moderators apply and are accepted by the board and try to implement the rules. They are the sheriffs, but how they behave in practise - well - we'll see!

(One of the funny things in our community is that we communicate behind nicknames on this site and are also worried about our reputation in relation to future games and on this site. I first was a bit amused about why I was asked to work as a kind of spokesman for this project. But I don't anymore - I think I'm the only one who doesn't care for any reputational setbacks! :D And I think that's okay - after we have a working forum I'm sure all roles are public: the board members, moderators, admins etc.)
353 days, 18 hours, 37 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
"Sirad: If you Capture a Tantrum Liner that IS already Charged, the Charge remains."

Not sure they will record that information as it was known before the articles were made as well;

http://help.planets.nu/mis-tantrum
http://help.planets.nu/abil-tantrum-device
___

"Sirad: So my Captured Tantrum Liner holds a sufficient charge without any ion Storms nearby."

@Sirad: The Documentation wording may have misled you due to the language barrier, but for native English readers implied that you don't have to be inside an Ion Storm to hold a charge, just to charge it, and that only works if the Ion Storm has a stronger charge than the Tantrum Liner.
353 days, 17 hours, 49 minutes ago
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sirad
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Aelfgar

'The only thing I can really think of, is that they would be useful for scattering SB defenders so that you only face the SB itself'

This is one possibility how to use it. But all ships get pushed away, even your own. So you may not attack the base that Turn the Blast took Place.
I Think The Tantrum Liner is a really good Offensive Weapon for Crystals/Robots/Colonials. Its A Colonial Ship, initially and since Colonials can gain Minefield superiority easyly i guess it's just meant to be used that way. Kick ya enemy into minefields. Preferably 3-6 Times overlapping ones. Minefield superiority will make this Ship very efficient.

This Ship will bring an additional kick on defending/atacking or cleaning warpwells/Orbits from lurking ships that load each turn just 1 KT fuel.
With a T-Liner at Hand the 1 kT Lurk & Sweep in Orbits/Warpwells-thingy leads the risk that the lurking fleet gets scattered by a tantrum blast.
[and then ends dead outside warpwells and with no fuel]
They can prevent to be scattered by setting intercept to each other but Hell, they are meant to sweep. If they dont sweep but intercept each other they then hit Mines/Webmines while doing so and get stuck anyhow.

Result: My Enemy is therefore forced to make sure each ship has enough fuel after sweeping to get back to orbit/save spot after a tantrum blast.

This is one example of Using the Ability of that ship without Physically using it at all. Like the Nuclear Bomb. It is not used but forces the enemy to change his strategy The presence of that ship will force my enemy to change his fuel saving tactics to a more fuel consuming one...

Pushing smaller enemy ships into several overlapping minefields can decide a battle too. In most cases not the 'Big Guns' decide the game but the smaller supply-lines. The Tantrum liner can be used to divide incoming fleets into smaller and bigger ships (the bigger ships will not get so much pushed away.)

But i rather think its a better offensive weapon than a defensive one.

353 days, 17 hours, 34 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Aelfgar: Well, first of all this ship guarantees that you don't have any cloakers on the world when you attack it (because they have to set Intercept, they can't cloak). Come to think of it, after the introduction of "Cloak&Intercept" this isn't 100% true anymore, but at the very least it protects you from anyone else. This alone is a game-changer for the Colonies, who on their own are very susceptible to for example the Pirate.

Having defensive ships intercept the TL only works from "outside" the planet and its warpwell, because any ship hit by a TANTRUM immediately loses its Intercept command. Which means that these ships are susceptible to attack. Also, imagine what happens when contrary to expectations, the TL does not attack, but rather leads the intercepting defensive fleet into a trap? It's a ship which creates mindgames.

The main use is not really to push ships super-far, just away from the planet. And once you are outside of the warpwell edge and can't easily return there, you're vulnerable. Keep in mind that COM are generally good at attrition warfare.

The charge requirement isn't very tough. Since the ship is super-light, you usually build them on those bases which have an ion storm nearby. Warp7 will be sufficient to let them fly endlessly, and even Warp5 will do fine.

There are many other uses for them. For example, if you use them on your own planets, you can nearly assure that they won't be taken this turn. If you're inside an ion storm, you can even do this with perpetuity, because you recharge the same turn you TANTRUMmed.

You can use this ship as a siege breaker. TANTRUM next to a ship you're worried about, and it cannot intercept you anymore.

Pushing ships into mines is also powerful, since you gain this ability for 2 meager PP in NuQueue and even a single one in Classic. Keep in mind that as COM, you can be expected to have minefield superiority, especially in Ion Storms.

So: Tantrum Liners no fire-and-forget power ships that win you wars by themselves, but they are extremely flexible tools which give the COM abilities which they direly need. If I played COM in a Campaign team game, for example, I would almost definitely pick them.
353 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
"Having defensive ships intercept the TL only works from "outside" the planet and its warpwell, because any ship hit by a TANTRUM immediately loses its Intercept command. "

This is very relevant information and should be documented.
353 days, 16 hours, 58 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Mursu: Ah your edit beat me to it!
___

I think the main problem is the information is spread over two documents;

http://help.planets.nu/mis-tantrum
http://help.planets.nu/abil-tantrum-device
353 days, 16 hours, 38 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Mursu,

> "Having defensive ships intercept the TL only works from "outside" the planet and its warpwell, because any ship hit by a TANTRUM immediately loses its Intercept command. "
> This is very relevant information and should be documented.

There are two parts of that statement. There's the information about the reset of an Intercept command, which is already in the documentation, and there's information on how to use it (a Tactic). Tactics don't belong in the Reference documentation, but in Guides.
353 days, 16 hours, 16 minutes ago
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aelfgar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Glyn: "I think the main problem is the information is spread over two documents;"

It's always seemed a bit odd to me that so much of the documentation is spread over two, or even more, different documents even when it is in regards to the same things.

Is the reset of the intercept mission something that changed since the introduction of the Liner? I don't remember that being in the original specs. That bit of information is a pretty huge deal, really.

Another thing that might help with documentation is some kind of a change log within the documentation itself. Rather like a wiki, but just a line at the bottom with the date of a change, the name of the editor, and the change that was made. That would help a LOT with keeping things up to date, I would think. And would show how things change over time.
353 days, 15 hours, 1 minutes ago
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mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Aelfgar: Again, you're thinking this the wrong way. You're building the TLs via priority build where the Ion Storms are, and then move them towards your frontline. And if you reeeeeally end up with spent TLs totally away from any storms, you can always recycle them and rebuild them elsewhere (no PP loss at all in Classic, only one PP in NuQueue).

The point is: This ship is not for continuous use. It's a _threat_. To be effective, it doesn't have to fire. It doesn't even have to have a charge. If you're on the defense, and you see a Colonial Fleet with TLs approaching, you're under pressure, since you don't know if they're charged or not.

It's all up to you to decide, but just accept it from someone with a little bit of Colonial game experience that this ship makes a _huge_ difference in the mid- and late game.
353 days, 14 hours, 42 minutes ago
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aelfgar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Thank you, Mentar. I wasn't really thinking of it from the perspective of the target. I can see how that would be pretty nasty to not know what to prepare for, yes. Uncertainty leads to errors.

Would you be willing to put up a link to a game you used them in?
353 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes ago
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mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
And one more thing: I just realized that the official documentation kinda got lost in the shuffle. This is what I wrote on the old forum, and it should most definitely be entered in the official rules in some form:

The TL has a "charge". Initially 0, it increases when the TL is in an ion storm with a higher voltage than its current charge. It gains half of the difference between the ion storm voltage and existing TL charge. Example: TL has charge 50, Ion storm is 100, TL gains (100-50)/2 = 25 charge and ends with 75.

The TL does not get damaged by the Ion Storm, but is still dragged by it.

The TL has a special mission "TANTRUM". It releases the charge in a kinetic blast, affecting all ships in a 3LY radius around it, cloaked or not. It does neither damage nor uncloak. In the host order, this special mission takes place _after_ regular movement, but _before_ interceptions take place.

All ships hit by a TANTRUM effect lose their Intercept mission.

All ships hit by a TANTRUM effect get directionally pushed away from the TANTRUM-originating TL. This means that a ship which is east from the TL gets pushed further east, a ship northwest from the TL gets pushed further northwest. A ship which is in exactly the same location as the TL gets pushed in a random direction.

The distance which the ships are pushed depends on the charge, the mass of the affected ship and its distance to the TL: The higher the TL's charge is, the farther the affected ship is pushed. The closer the affected ship is, the farther away it is pushed. The lighter the affected ship is, the farther away it is pushed. The closer the affected ship is to the TL, the farther it goes.

A TANTRUM mission expends the entire charge, it is reset to 0. However, since the "charge" effect happens after the TANTRUM mission in the host order, it is possible that the TL is immediately recharged in the same turn. This makes it possible to TANTRUM each turn, as long as the TL remains within an ion storm.

TLs ending up inside an Ion Storm affect the bearing, they "attract" it. Meaning that if an TL ends up within an ion storm on the "left" side relative to the bearing, it changes by -1 (ion storm turns left). If the TL ends up on the "right" side, it changes by +1 (ion storm turns right). This effect is cumulative if multiple TLs affect the same ion storm. However, there is a maximum of 20 degrees bearing change per turn.

Can someone please adjust the documentation? Feel free to clean up the language and correct glitches.
353 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes ago
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mentar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Aelfgar: For example, you can check Lyra (http://planets.nu/#/sector/137611)
353 days, 14 hours, 19 minutes ago
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aelfgar
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
Thanks for the link, Mentar!

Honestly, I think a Cloak Intercept mission ought to get reset to just Cloak. It would seem consistent with the rest.
353 days, 13 hours, 37 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Hello Alltogether. Is there a explicit description upon...Write Reply
@Aelfgar: Ooh, good catch, Cloak and Intercept hit by Tantrum really needs to be tested for two reasons then.