Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...

« Back

204 days, 9 hours, 50 minutes ago
Profile Image
soulseeker
Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Hi mates! I have a host order question.

I have doubts about the 3rd Loki decloak step.
In planetsmagazine host order webpage it says that the 3rd Loki decloak (after SB refuel but before combat) is deprecated, but in help.planets.mnu it doesn´t say it is deprecated.
So my question is, can a Loki be built, refueled by a SB with refuel mission and decloak cloaked ships before combat?

Thanks in advance :)

Soul.
204 days, 9 hours, 18 minutes ago
View iso--t's profile
iso--t
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Yes. That seems actually possible. Thanks for the tip, that may be needed some day
204 days, 3 hours, 11 minutes ago
Profile Image
soulseeker
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Yes, it would be good to know ;)
Anyone else confirming it is possible and planetsmagazine is wrong?
204 days, 3 hours, 2 minutes ago
Profile Image
domodedovo
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
start a testgame and try it out.
202 days, 19 hours, 41 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
According to my notes, that step was active -- but the last time I tested it was when writing some of the documentation about... I would say two to three years ago.

So yes, start a test game and tell us. Or someone in a current knife-fight with a Privateer should give it a shot and see if it works. I believe it should.
202 days, 14 hours, 36 minutes ago
Profile Image
macros the black
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
The doubt comes, likely, from the "deprecated" note near Loki's third decloack on the official host order. There have not been public announcements on that in the last three years, at least, and the last time I saw it work was back in 2017 (because it's an infrequent situation), therefore I believe the feature still works.
202 days, 12 hours, 55 minutes ago
Profile Image
paudolf
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Great question, never had thought about it! fixed with a test game: feds and privs: diplomacy with Pe priv, SB building loki and mission refuel the same turn that one MCBR arrives... MCBR has been decloaked and destroyed by Diplomacy.
Muy buena pregunta, nunca s eme habia ocurrido! Lo he probado y funciona como dices. El mismo turno tenia una diplomacy fed con PE priv; he puesto una loki a construir en la base y mision repostar y he llevado una meteor... la meteor ha sido descamuflada y destruida por la diplo.
202 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
Profile Image
mcnimble
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
So now the Q becomes, what use is the *second* Loki decloak, if we have the third?

Historical note, GD and Loki phases are there because of the AUXBC phase, which NU naturally does not have. I suspect that's why Loki was marked deprecated.

GD is not deprecated! Chunnel has happened since the previous 'trg' check.

Oh, you'd like to know what AUXBC is? A possibility to run external tools (hosting add-ons) with good ol' HOST.EXE, right before battle. Since it could do things like move ships (wormholes, whatever), GD and Loki could be circumvented with these add-ons. This was deemed unfair.
202 days, 5 hours, 50 minutes ago
Profile Image
italocus
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
So is it fair that the only way Privateers can beat Feds 1 on 1 (Kill all Loki's and prevent them from building more) is now circumvented?
202 days, 5 hours, 16 minutes ago
Profile Image
aelfgar
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Anything that makes life difficult for the Privateers is fair. If I were ever to become emperor my emperor ship would be one that simply removes the Privateers from the game. No, not the game it's used in. All games. Everywhere. Forever.
202 days, 4 hours, 59 minutes ago
Profile Image
italocus
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Wow, salty much? To be honest Privateers are barely a nuisance to experienced high level player. I will admit they can completely dominate a game with beginner/intermediate players but hopefully that makes them want to learn how to beat them and defend against them, not remove them from the game.
202 days, 4 hours, 38 minutes ago
Profile Image
mursu
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
>To be honest Privateers are barely a nuisance to experienced high level player.

http://play.planets.nu/#/sector/252834
202 days, 4 hours, 24 minutes ago
Profile Image
aelfgar
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
@Italocus... This may come as a shock to you but, amongst most humans there is a concept called, "amusement." It comes in many forms. What you saw above would be recognized by most humans as an example of a form of amusement or humor. I will attempt to inform you about one method of recognizing this method of communication as it occurs disturbingly regularly in human communications. To fail to recognize it may give humans some sense that you are not actually human.
Quite often a human will make a statement that is not intended to be taken entirely literally. In fact, as in the example above, this kind of statement is fairly obviously not intended to be taken seriously and, in fact, is an indication of respect for the subject of the communication.
One of the key indicators of this kind of statement that is not really intended to be taken literally is that they are statements that make claims that are (and sometimes this is difficult to determine, yes) unreasonable or wildly excessive responses to some situation. This is the key that you must look for to determine if a statement is being expressed as an attempt to amuse other humans rather than being taken as a statement of the actual desires of some human.
Of course, there are those humans who, for whatever reason, seem to prefer to be offended by such statements. It is possible that they have difficulty recognizing when a statement is clearly unreasonable and excessive. Or that they cannot recognize that an intentionally unreasonable and/or excessive statement is intended to be amusing to other humans.
To appear more natural as a human I advise you keep this fairly simple guideline in mind when assessing human communications: If it appears wildly unreasonable and excessive there is a fairly high probability that it is intended as an expression of this concept known as, "humor."
As an aside, amusement actually exists amongst many Earth species such as the animals kept as, "pets," by humans. Dogs and cats (I'll assume you are familiar with these creatures.) fairly often behave in ways which demonstrate a clear familiarity with the concept of amusement or humor. It has even been observed in creatures with as little self-awareness as fish, though to a fairly limited level.
202 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
Profile Image
italocus
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
I honestly looked at the game you linked for about a minute, long enough to look at his first victum, the birds, who failed to defend properly. I guess believing their HW was safe from attack? Then running into Fed forces that were without a Loki?

OK I guess I should havbe said GOOD high level players?

202 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes ago
Profile Image
aelfgar
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Perhaps, as a Vulcan, I failed in my calculations intended to make my statement outrageous and excessive enough to make it easily recognizable as a statement of humorous respect for the capabilities of a skilled Privateer commander.
202 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
Profile Image
mursu
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
I think it is a pretty interesting concept who can be classed as "high level player". If a game difficulty is 1.95 I think at least most of the players in the game are somewhat good. If someone takes a solo win, he probably needs to beat more than one or two who might play bad or do mistakes.

If you play 100% correct defensive play with one of the Loki races, yes you will likely defeat Privateers 1 vs. 1. What makes it interesting is that almost every single player in almost every single game make mistakes. And Privateers capitalize those mistakes. Also if you play fully safe game (especially at the start) it hinders your development a lot. So you might not lose to Privateers, but your other neighbor who has actually built a fleet and not built only Privateer defenses steamrolls you.

In short in hands of a capable player I would NEVER underestimate Privateers.
202 days, 3 hours, 55 minutes ago
Profile Image
italocus
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
Yes, I should qualify in a game vs all very skilled players. As once a Privateer is able take some ships and eliminate some anti-privateer tools from the game the dynamic changes completely.

I'm familiar with humor... I tend to prefer sarcasm? Still salty?
202 days, 3 hours, 53 minutes ago
Profile Image
aelfgar
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
@Mursu, you are expressing (and I'm sure you're aware of this) what makes this game so much better than nearly anything else available. Even though the races are not perfectly balanced (and it is hard to imagine how they could be _perfectly_ balanced) the real difference between the races lies in the skill of the player.

I wonder how long it will be before someone recognizes this and devises an AI test based on this game? How long will it be before we all fall to an AI player?
202 days, 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
@Mcnimble,

> So now the Q becomes, what use is the *second* Loki decloak, if we have the third?

From the Annotated Host Order (http://play.planets.nu/#/howtoplay/host-order-commentary):
> Post-movement (and post-Glory) decloak. In truth, I believe this step to be redundant, but I could be wrong.
202 days, 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
Profile Image
italocus
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
@Aelfgar I know what salty means, your "humorous" remarks still show a great deal of salt even if, as you say, you were "just kidding" . You should probably look up ad hominem fallacy and stop trying to "win" arguments by pointing out someone else's (perceived) short comings.
202 days, 1 hours, 28 minutes ago
Profile Image
superdrake
RE: Hi mates! I have a host order question. I have doubts...Write Reply
And the righteous have somehow found this thread. I need to refill my medical marijuana pipe and get my head ready for tall talk from those who do not fart. how do they do that?