I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

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1763 days, 2 hours, 12 minutes ago

I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game.

I thought it was 10% loss- should have been 8 points not twelve?

--

On a related note, I dislike that I get the same tenacity hit if I resign from a butt woopin (I resigned with three planets and no ships) as if I resign turn four of a brand new game, or dead in the middle with allies everywhere.

I like tenacity as the tool it was intended to be used for- but seriously....

This is a game after all, and what fun is it to sit for thirty turns while slow poke commanders mop you up?

I had been beaten in that game for a LONG time. I was plugging away because it's what you're "supposed to do". I did everything I knew to speed the process RGA my own planets, 100% tax rates, everything.

Still I resign and get a massive tenacity hit.... Which is the same hit I get if I had quit twenty turns ago???

Seems the system is designed to make me not care about tenacity after a certain point.

1763 days, 2 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I don't get it either.
I've finished 12 games.
I've died in 3 other games.
I've only resigned from 2 games, one of which I joined on turn 48.
I just won a game where I joined in 8th place on turn 40 .
And yet my Tenacity is 71%
???????

1763 days, 1 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

You die or resign in non FoF team game or 11 player game you lose ~10 tenacity.

Melee games or from FoF death you don't take as much as 10.

I think I lost ~0.5 tenacity for a FoF going under the 10 limit and being forced out of the game. So when you lose you may also take a hit for not putting in your turn on the turn you quit or die (but is not recorded as a missed turn). Or something like that as I was told you don't take a tenacity hit for FoF but I took a notable drop of ~0.5% after I was dropped from the game.

You then get to build up your tenacity back up again.

Not sure how you do it as I was stuck at 113 for a long time when I was putting in turns and not missing them and now at 103 for dropping a game where I was just being used as a hostage.

1762 days, 23 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

"I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game."

Looks correct.

Before drop - Basic Tenacity = 80% and Turn Tenacity = 115.03%.
.80 x 1.1503 = 92.02%

After drop - Basic Tenacity = 70% and Turn Tenacity = 115.03%.
.70 x 1.1503 = 80.52%

---------------------------------------------------

"I resigned" is the opposite of tenacity.

Tenacity means:

1 didn't resign
I wasn't dropped
I didn't let them kill me.
I was a pain in the ass the whole damn game.
I was Tenacious!

Tenacious doesn't mean - "I played."

There are no "Participant" ribbons in VGA Planets.

1762 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I would really, really like to see Tenacity moved to resigned-only. The purpose of the thing was to fix the problem of people dropping games hither-and-yon; penalising those who get wiped out in a game does nothing to help with that (and actually discourages people from agreeing to play as a replacement player).

1762 days, 21 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Replacement players are not penalized for dropping out or dying.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Blitz games - Cannot lose tenacity
Melee games - cannot lose tenacity
Beginner/Mentor games - cannot lose tenacity
Replacement players cannot lose tenacity

11-player games where quitting or dying leaves a big gap for someone to freely expand hurting everyone else - Yes, tenacity can be lost

12-player team games where quitting or dying destroys the team - Yes, tenacity can be lost.

But, even if you do lose tenacity in the above 2 specific cases, you can easily gain it back. A single Sector Rescue completed after the penalty cancels a 10% penalty, plus giving the bonus for Sector Rescue.

(Sector Rescue means taking a replacement position for at least the last 20 turns and keeping or improving one's rank in the planet count.)

1762 days, 21 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

It's just frustrating. I do my turns (missed all of 14 out of nearly 2000). I stick with games. But courtesy of coming out on the badly-losing end of two recent games, here I am stuck at 91%.

1762 days, 20 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I understand the definition of tenacity, and the definition of sarcasm in case that too was in question.

I also said I liked tenacity for the tool it was designed to be used for.

I DISLIKE that I get the same hit in tenacity for resigning on turn fifty four with 0 ships and 3 planets, as if I had said to hell with it and bailed out once I knew my position was untenable (which a lot DO). Instead, I fought it out until I was beaten completely.

I needed the spot for the Nuniverse Cup, which was set to start yesterday, and was supposed to go public. As I was full- that was the only game I could resign, or I wouldn't have done it in the first place.

As it turns out I could have hit end turn one more time I think.

My bad.

1762 days, 19 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I should also say:
I DO appreciate your explanation.
Cleared that right up for me.

1762 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

re:
I DISLIKE that I get the same hit in tenacity for resigning on turn fifty four with 0 ships and 3 planets, as if I had said to hell with it and bailed out once I knew my position was untenable (which a lot DO). Instead, I fought it out until I was beaten completely.

I could not agree more! And I hope Fight or Fail will solve this going forward, although I STILL think that should be voluntary.

1762 days, 10 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Spaxx: 1.1972 x 60% = 71.83%

Daily Grind = 119.72%
Raw Tenacity = 60% (from last 10 completed games)
---------------------------------------
Vega (Replacement)
1. New Ireland (-10)
2. Die Hard X
Karelia (Replacement)
Zippi (Melee)
3. Taulus
4. Kobol (-10)
5. Exodius (-10)
Toltek (Melee)
6. Estes
7. Orionis I
8. Halloween (-10)
Azores (Melee)
Farpoint (Melee)
Ohular (Beginner)
Cordoba (Melee)
Mao 4 (Replacement)

So far, you only have 8 games that are measured for Basic Tenacity with 4 of those being dead/drop for -40%.

1762 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

MJ....you are mistaken,missing blitz turns DOES affect tenacity now if you dispute this, i will oblige you a blitz....

1762 days, 9 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

You are correct, Mech. In fact, Daily Grind has its own measurement and includes every turn in all non-Private games including blitz games. I was only talking about Basic Tenacity. Thank you for clarifying that.

1762 days, 9 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

not sure the specific terms....but it affects the one i see on my history....and the one that stops me joining some games....and since i gain nothing from blitz....i say i shouldn't be able to lose anything either.

1762 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I like the fact that players who die, even on turn 50 or 100, lose tenacity. Here is why. When I play, I assume my opponent will make the best moves. This means that I have to forego good opportunities that are based on hope and not good strategy. So, my front line fleets are not as powerful as some because I am allowing for hidden moves, bad luck, bad results, etc. Players who die (it is hard to die here) have the attitude, "I will just throw everything I have in the attack. I won't worry about my flanks. I won't worry about cloakers. I won't worry about about bad luck. I won't worry about reserves. I will just throw everything I have at my opponent and if I die, no problem. I'll just start a new game." That shows a definite lack of tenacity, a lack of determination to be a part of the game until the end. This lack of tenacity costs 10%.

In real life people don't act like that. That was the whole purpose of the Doolittle Raid. Militarily, it was a waste of resources. Psychology, it caused the Japanese to deny front line forces 100X the cost of the Doolittle Raid. Likewise, you prevent yourself from dying on turn 100 with the forces you put in reserve on turn 50.

VGA Planets is a strategy game, not a first person shooter or an RTS game. Pushing reset should not be an option.

99.99% of the time, players will do better if they played less games. Play fewer games and don't die.

1762 days, 9 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

but blitz, and i am quite certain i am not alone here, is just for fun and/or bragging rights...it shouldn't effect my ability to campaign, OR even better in my case, it should affect positively as well.....

1762 days, 2 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Did you seriously bring up the "in real life" argument? :)
Where are the outraged merlin queue controllers!? Prisoner ship owners?!

Seriously, though- without having insight into each and every commanders strategic plan, how can you say with any certainty that your opinions about things such as number of games, really matter to their individual tenacity? You make a lot of assumptions...

If I decide as a commander to throw everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink at my enemy, that's my prerogative.

If I decide to join all eight games that's also my prerogative. We all know some people choose to have multiple accounts- with multiple tenacity ratings - so it's kind of moot in the first place.

What I am arguing, is there should be a definite difference between what you lose for dropping a game with 24% military and 54 planets, and one in which you had 0.03 military and 3 planets.

Again, this is a game- intended to be fun.

I note that many of your arguments are due to your preferred method of having fun in your own games- ( I assume that is smashing your neighbors until they are dust.)

If the main argument is "droppers aren't fun, cause problems that reduce fun, etc)".

Then I see little difference in arguing for fun on the other end of the spectrum.

---

I can assure you, if nothing changes, then (much like ranks seem to be..) tenacity will (for me) become just another number-
one to be ignored.

The particular game in question- I DID try a lot of things to remain a viable player. not the least of which was offering to become another players vassal, even to my enemy!

(Who, I might add, ended up dropping after he smashed me.)

But he was pretty miffed I had ruined his shot at winning early game and wanted to see me dead. He was willing to offer fireclouds to commanders that helped him, and war threats on commanders that aided me.
I never got a single response to vassalage.

--

Lastly, I disagree completely on the "be a better player with fewer games" remark.

Practice makes perfect. Experience is the best teacher. Etc..
I am still a pretty new player (at just under a year)- I need all the game time I can get. Being retired allows me the time available to play them.

In that particular game, I decided early to kill the Cyborg- alone. Never tried it before, had no experience on the matter, frankly needed to see for myself if I could pull it off.

I tried the birds once, got a skilled (and pre-teamed) privateer neighbor that taught me the finer points of warp well surfing... I died in that one too..

One of my first games ever (pre training games) was as a Rebel, I didn't know T7 engines wouldn't cut it, or that you could "hide" by completing single turn planet to planet jumps. I died in that one too.

But I never gave up- right to the end, and I've never bailed out on an ally.

My end and your end may be two different points in time- that's fine.

I'm not asking for NO tenacity hit- just let the punishment fit the crime.

1762 days, 2 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Generally, I agree with Issen Adtur. In principle, I find him sound; in logic, correct.

Granted, the system seems to be functioning approximately as designed, but there are minor glitches in the code that cause real people some headaches -- and surely, fewer headaches means better player retention means more money.

1762 days, 2 hours, 1 minutes ago

joseph bradshaw

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

What is tenacity used for anyway? Does it let you play special games? Give you a bonus v. goddamn Privateers? :-)

Serious question though. Is it just ePeen and shame or does it have some function?

1762 days, 1 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Certain games on the site have minimum tenacity requirements. If they're below that, you can't join the game.

I agree with other posters that a drop with 3 planets is different than dropping at turn 4, or dropping with 20 planets, or what have you. There is no way to surrender in this game... and in the case where issen is talking about, he had no reasonable recourse after doing everything he could to surrender the position.

It's a flaw.

1762 days, 1 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

tenacity tells you how faithful a player is towards his games. how many turns missed, how many games dropped. Very true it is only a number, and i understand feelings when fighting a long lost battle, however, holiday mode, or a brief peek at your turns should do the trick rather then stepping out or dying because of turn loss. Surrendering to an ally or enemy is also an option. So think about if you will finish a game, before you enter. THAT is what the tenacity rating is for.

1762 days, 1 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Can't holiday mode, because that puts all your games in holiday mode.

Not a solution.

Hitting end turn over and over is great.... in theory.

What if you are a NEW player and end up being beaten in all (four) of your games..

Do you continue to log in every few days to click end turn four times and log out?

Think that player will still be around in six months?

I don't.

1762 days, 1 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Tenacity value . I doubt that this really help to prevent that player resign.

Ok, maybe the current overall game stats will tell us that since tenacity came to life less people dropped? But on the other hand you have player inside a game with <3% military left who are beaten and want drop but can't because of the tenacity hit. They only can wait or help another player to finish the game. On my view, most times it's better that a race simply vanish if the military drop under, let say 1-2%, and this counts twice if you are in a 0 ally game.

So today, a high Tenacity means more that you a little stubborn :)

1762 days, 0 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Vote on this:

http://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/6099531-improve-the-tenacity-concept-by-allowing-graceful

I think tenacity concept is good, it just needs tweaking.

Graceful exit is a key point, and also more transparent how is calculated.

1762 days, 0 hours, 29 minutes ago

joseph bradshaw

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Seems a simple solution. Less than 'x' planets after turn 'y' and there is no tenacity hit. I'm in a game like that now where you die if you don't have enough planets.

I'm kinda new here but the tenacity system just needs a few tweaks. A lot of things are a work in progress. No biggie.

1761 days, 22 hours, 54 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Games that are played for fun should be clearly identified to anyone (including new players) joining. I still have to have it explained to me which are which. Do we get some points but not others? Do we earn any points in those "level up" games? Melees? Blitzes? If such games receive no points - of any kind - they likewise should not penalize the players for quitting or dying.

Games that provide points should have some mechanism to punish players that jump in only long enough to "try it out" and then quit. These are the drops that bother me. Use tenacity or withhold ANY points until turn 50 and I am satisfied. Personally, I like rewards better than punishment.

But.... This is not reality. This is a GAME. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a limited amount of time to spend on entertainment. I do not want to spend any of it putting in meaningless turns for months on end. Certainly not after I have already given it a really good try and now find myself playing the game of "run and hide so nobody kills me" and I lose the points that way instead. Who gains anything in that?

To have winners you must have losers.OK! Just give them a clean death and stop dragging them through the street. Not that it matters, but the argument that in real life nobody fights a battle willing to die before being taken prisoner is also wrong.

1761 days, 22 hours, 54 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

Games that are played for fun should be clearly identified to anyone (including new players) joining. I still have to have it explained to me which are which. Do we get some points but not others? Do we earn any points in those "level up" games? Melees? Blitzes? If such games receive no points - of any kind - they likewise should not penalize the players for quitting or dying.

Games that provide points should have some mechanism to punish players that jump in only long enough to "try it out" and then quit. These are the drops that bother me. Use tenacity or withhold ANY points until turn 50 and I am satisfied. Personally, I like rewards better than punishment.

But.... This is not reality. This is a GAME. I don't know about anyone else, but I have a limited amount of time to spend on entertainment. I do not want to spend any of it putting in meaningless turns for months on end. Certainly not after I have already given it a really good try and now find myself playing the game of "run and hide so nobody kills me" and I lose the points that way instead. Who gains anything in that?

To have winners you must have losers.OK! Just give them a clean death and stop dragging them through the street. Not that it matters, but the argument that in real life nobody fights a battle willing to die before being taken prisoner is also wrong.

1761 days, 21 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

>>11-player games where quitting or dying leaves a big gap for someone to freely expand hurting everyone else - Yes, tenacity can be lost<<

MJS... I big, big, bigtime disagree with you on the whole "dying, regardless of circumstance, should take a tenacity hit". There's no way fighting out a game for 130 turns, only to die after all of that should ever be hit with a tenacity loss. Ever. If you think that dying after 100-plus turns leaves a "big gap" for someone to freely expand into you're very confused on what would cause someone to die after that long.
A recently ended game of mine I would have died if the game had gone on for a few dozen more turns. I'd been fighting solo against an opponent with many many times the military that I had for 50 turns or more. Fought him every step of the way, cost him a huge amount of his big carriers to keep advancing thru my territory. If I had died at some point along the way, there would be absolutely no "big gap" for anyone to "expand freely" into "hurting everyone else"; why? Because the guy I was fighting had already conquered all that territory. If he hadn't, I wouldn't be dead.

However, if I get my HW taken out on turn 8 and my 7 other planets are taken out by turn 20, that would leave a "big gap" for someone to expand into unopposed.
Two completely different scenarios that should be treated very, very differently by the tenacity rating.

1761 days, 20 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

There are 8 games available in the start section. 5 of them allow for a "graceful exit," while only 3 require completion of the game to avoid loss of tenacity.

If you want to have a "graceful exit," how about you join one of the games that allows that? That is 5 out of 8 - a majority.

Why do you guys have the attitude, "I don't want anyone playing in any fashion I don't want to play. I am the God of VGA Planets and if you don't want to play the way I demand, you shouldn't be allowed to play. ALL games should be played my way."

What is so wrong about having different types of games on this site for different types of players?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of us like to have skin in the game (something to lose with failure). Right now, the only thing possible to lose is tenacity. Right now, the only risk in any game is the loss of tenacity in a minority of games. If you are afraid of risk and want to play in safe games, that is fine. I support you. I am happy for you. But, play in your own games (the majority of games available) and don't worry about the minority of games that require risk that we enjoy.

This site is big enough for everyone. You don't have to be a tyrant and force everyone to play your way to enjoy the site.

1761 days, 20 hours, 40 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

8 game types? That's great, although I don't know what they all are. I don't play levels, melees, blitzes, or campaigns - for various reasons that should matter to nobody but me.

I like Classic games. NOW, how many choices do I have? Which are the Classic games that both discourage early drops but do not penalize people that die or drop long after the game is lost? If there are 5 out of 8 of those games available your position is solid.

If not, then who is telling who to go "play in your own games?" Nobody is telling anyone they cannot or should not hang in there to the last bloody straw. I respect YOU all the more for having the desire and time to spend so fruitlessly. But, what really bothers me is when someone else wants to tell ME what I should do with my entertainment time.

Skin in the game? 9 to 12 months spent playing the average game is not enough "skin?" OK, let's change the scoring format. Average the last 10 games, only give + points to those finishing above #5 and give - points to everyone finishing in the bottom 5. Lots of better ways to get more skin in the game without insisting I give ANOTHER 6 months hiding and sending in meaningless turns.

1761 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

"But, what really bothers me is when someone else wants to tell ME what I should do with my entertainment time."

And, yet, you say all 8 games should be your way and no one should be allowed to enjoy the minority of games that aren't your way.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

"NOW, how many choices do I have?"

You will never have your perfect choice. There are dozens of set up variables. You pick the one most important to you and see which games have that variable. Then, among those games, you pick your next choice. You probably will never find a game where all host variables are exactly the way you want. So, in order to play with others, you have to let them have some of their choices.

Example: Let's say I want to play the Fascist with all my toys. But, I dislike FoF. I have to make a choice and decide:

A. Play Campaign game with FoF or
B. Play Classic game w/o FoF
C. Whine and moan that my exact desires are not being met and not play any games
D. Demand a Campaign game w/o FoF. Likewise, others will demand games that match their exact preferences. Soon, we will have 300 games in the New Games section and games will take 2-3 years to fill.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Skin in the game? 9 to 12 months spent playing the average game is not enough "skin?""

I guess I play for different reasons than you. I play for pleasure - win or lose. I have a blast. There is no cost for me to play. It is a privilege and one of life's many, many joys. For me, it is not a cost, "Yeah, I have to spend time doing my turn tonight." Instead, it is fun, "Yeah, later I get to spend an hour relaxing doing my turn."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"OK, let's change the scoring format. "

I agree with you here. I wish Achievement Points were on the line instead of Tenacity. But, the discussion here is not "Let's swap loss of Achievement Points in lieu of loss of Tenacity," which I have lobbied for many, many, many times. The discussion here is, "I'm losing something! I'm losing something! Whaaaaa! It hurts! It hurts! Where's my cocoon?"

1761 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

seems like some have neglected to mention that tenacity also affects how much you get if you WIN....i find that number less "ignorable"

1761 days, 20 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

other than that small point i say preach on Issen <3

1761 days, 19 hours, 55 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

MJS... LOL / smiles even.

But you exaggerate and obfuscate. Every argument you make about us wanting everything our own way can be applied equally to you.

We have Die Hard games. Why aren't you happy with just that? Why do all classic type games have to be DH games? Why can't we have some games that punish late droppers and some that don't.

And yes, there are many other extraneous options we could add in, but really... that is only to muddy the water. I hope that FoF will resolve this question. I can look for such games in a classic format and know that if all goes bad, I can self-destruct using it. Problem solved.

I fear this is one we will not resolve to everyone's satisfaction.

1761 days, 19 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

I've been playing Planets since 1994. For most of that time, what I played have been what we now call "Classic" games: the eleven races, on either the original Echo Cluster or custom maps. It's what's familiar to me, and I play it for enjoyment. Yes, on occasion I can wind up exterminated; it happens. But it's always been fun.

Until now. Because now, if I wind up exterminated, my Tenacity gets knocked down, with the very real effect that I find myself limited in what games I can join. Doesn't matter that I'm a decent player (I'm in the top ten for the Colonies); if I try a race that's new to me and get crushed in the process, I'm penalised for my potential participation in *all* future games.

It wasn't long ago that I tried my very first run as a Fed. It was in theory a team game. But (courtesy of a join-and-quit before I signed up for the thing) I was saddled with a 100-temp homeworld and lost most of my population before I could correct it via terraformers. I had a teammate who was barely there. And I was subsequently crushed by two Lizard players (between whom I was sandwiched), though I hung in there for 155 turns. Boom: -10 Tenacity.

Want to penalise people for quitting games? Great. But we already have a means of showing the effect of whether you win or lose, and that's called the Leader Board. Stop penalising players via Tenacity for sticking their neck out and actually *trying*.

1761 days, 18 hours, 41 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

@jessilaurn: I think you make the point well. We all play for our own reasons and in our own way. What matters to one person doesn't always matter to the next, and that's fine.

I fail to see why one player cannot take this game as seriously as he likes and accept that others may not. He should be able to find an acceptable way to measure his own successes without insisting we all do the same. Nor should it diminish his accomplishment if we are not roundly slapped around.

Frankly, I don't know where I rank. I haven't looked in ever so long. I know that if I played for achievement and always with one race and as many games as I could stuff into my day that I would rank much higher. So, am I wrong not to care?

This argument that the game is "ruined" when after a long fought campaign some player with a bare handful of planets or ships remaining drops out is nonsense. All I can figure is they want the loser to be a vassal and I will always refuse that no matter the consequence.

1761 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

"If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: “Hold on!”

Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son."

If, by Rudyard Kipling, The Soldier's Poet

I guess I was under the impression that this was a wargame. My mistake.

I'll leave this thread and let you finish discussing how to transform the game into Farmland in Space.

1761 days, 17 hours, 33 minutes ago

mule

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

No no, don't leave! It is just that you put the emphasis on war and some put the emphasis on game and the rest of us are somewhere in between.

The former never quits, the second quits entirely too fast, and the rest of us consider it situational. I think the first and the last can satisfactorily share games as long as we allow each other their space. And we can both throw rocks at those other guys! :)

1761 days, 17 hours, 26 minutes ago

trcspot

RE: I went from 92% to 80 % tenacity after dropping one game. ...

"... though I hung in there for 155 turns. Boom: -10 Tenacity".

I may be wrong here, but wouldn't you have gained more tenacity through those 155 turns (assuming you turned all turns in and on time) than you lost at the end?