Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

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1820 days, 19 hours, 25 minutes ago

Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Mob World Sector

A battle report from the Klingon War Correspondent on the Mob War Sector conflict which is experiencing the new Giant Melee PP q system.

We are now are into the 18th Turn. Currently at 454 planets, 76 Star Bases and 436 ships. 874 PP.

We have two dead players and 28 active players.

Highest planets count is a dead heat between 4 players on 23. With a mix of 2 and 3 star bases and 14 to 51 PP.

Highest on 73 PP is Apollyon Maximus of the Birdmen with 4 SB and 10 ships.

Highest SB is Black Night the Colonies with 8 with 19 ships and 70 PP.

Highest ship count is Cptspiff the Lizards with 37 ships, 4 SB and 10 PP (seems to be following the standard build Q tactic).

Comparing this to 4 of my previous Giant Melee games.

Muracha Turn 18 9 dead or open players, 401 planets 50 star bases and 401 ships. (lower active players, higher ships but lower star bases).

Toltek Turn 18 3 dead or open players, 412 planets, 59 star bases, 350 ships. (lower active players, lower ships and lower SB’s).

Murphrid Turn 18 18 dead or open players, 364 planets, 29 star bases, 207 ships. (much lower active players, lower ships and lower SB’s).

Red Planet Sector Turn 18, 5 dead or open players, 401 planets, 52 star bases, 453 ships (lower active players, lower ships and lower SB’s).

Conclusion

Melee games are very different. But overall we have a high active game with few droppers. Star base is way up on average and the ship build is quite quick compared to other games because of the low drop rate and high SB count.

It also looks like we have a mix of playing styles with some people sticking with the old build system of max ship output and some are going crazily for low ship count and high SB for PP and builds after the soft limit is hit.

But this is mashed up with early conflicts with planets and ships lost and PP created for combat.

But this Klingon War Correspondent thinks this is going to be one crazy Giant Melee.

Martin the Klingon signing off.

1820 days, 8 hours, 1 minutes ago

rock_the_endbringer

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

for this reason only I would like to see you stay alive

1820 days, 7 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Hmm that's interessting. If we assume there is a hard ship limit of 999 ships it could be probably reached easily when everyone decides to use their PP for 2-Point ships. Guess that's somewhat against the systems original intention...

1820 days, 6 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Lets see how it goes, personally I have been changing my mix of both strategies as the game and the neighbours develop.

Last turn (18) we had 23 ships built from 74 bases. At this rate ship limit by turn 20-21 and then we start to spend PP.

1819 days, 23 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Just to confirm everyone's comments. There is a hard ship limit of 999. (because of friendly codes)

1819 days, 22 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Well we could go to alpha numeric next.

1000 = aaa
1001 = aab

up to zzz. That will give us a few extras :-).

Just kidding.

1819 days, 22 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Klingon War Correspondent has another thought. When FoF hits at turn 30. We will be well into the soft limit by then. And how many ships will be freed up and will be get below 500 by then?

1819 days, 22 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

so how is priority determined for the builds once the 999 limit is reached?

1819 days, 22 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Since all ships cost +1 pbp, there are very few useful 2 pbp ships. Terraformers are useful. But, most are 3 pbp's, such as Nef's and high beam, anti-mine ships, like Little Joe's.

I would imagine that neither extreme will be successful. It is still good to build lots of ships.

PQ allows you to not build 3 warp 1 Nef's now in exchange for building 2 warp 9 Nef's later. The added mobility may be valuable. Also, the money you save for the tech at the second starbase may allow more good ships before the limit at your home world.

The key will be to look at all the possible permutations and develop the right build program for each particular game.

One key is having a good crap ship so you can always build at home every turn. Not doing that will definitely be detrimental. Examples:
Fed: Terraformer
Lizard: Terraformer, Hisser
Bird: ??? (can at least build a warp 6 SDSF or MDSF)
Fascist: Nef
Empire: Probe, H-Ross (ftr storage)

1819 days, 21 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Cinnamon, I think it is random. When a slot is available a random SB is selected. It its got a PBC code it will be built. If not another random SB will be selected. But that's a guess.

1819 days, 21 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Also do we know how random random is?

1) Random chance every time therefore same chance of getting a build the turn after.
2) You get a chance but you will not get another chance until the rest of the 500 planets have been gone through?

1819 days, 20 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Rerandomized every turn, going by the docs.

1818 days, 2 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

A battle report update from the Klingon War Correspondent on the Mob War Sector conflict.

We are now are into the 20th Turn. Still on 454 planets, up 10 Star Bases to 86. Up 48 ships to 484 and up to 1092PP from 874 PP (compared to turn 18). I expect we will hit the 500 limit next turn and have to start building ships with PP.

We have 2 dead and one open race.

We have an additional 3 players below the FoF. With currently 18 ship slots taken by those players.

Highest SB is still Black Night the Colonies with 8 with 21 ships and 98 PP.

Highest ship count is still Cptspiff the Lizards with 42 ships,5 SB and 18 PP.

So with 1092 PP we could have 500 2PP ships so hitting the hard limit or 50 large carriers!

Martin the Klingon signing off.

1816 days, 18 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Error with Priority Points (PP)???? On turn 20 I have 46 PP and 4 starbases. I set 1 starbase to build a 4 PP ship (using PB1 code), 3 starbases are set to build nothing, and I am building 1 new starbase. At turn 21 in the scoreboard under PP it shows 44(-2). What???? Shouldn't the 3 bases not building have given me +6 in PP? Subtract the 4 points for the 1 build and I should have seen in the scoreboard under PP 48(+2), not 44(-2). No starbases were captured so no subtraction from that.

What am I missing here or is there an error in the calculation for PP in the coding?

1816 days, 18 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

OOpps, my bad in my previous post. Where I reference turn 20 it should be turn 21 and turn 21 should be turn 22.

1816 days, 18 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Last turn we hit 499 ships.

This turn we should have gone beyond that.

So it should have randomly assigned a few starbases to get PP and then there should have been a ship build.

Looks like we had a few combats to reduce that and a few more ships built.

But we are still at 500 ships.

Did anyone put PB1 etc to build ships?

If they did we have not got beyond the 500 limit.

So is the soft limit of 500 really a hard limit and we cannot go beyond 500. Next turn will tell.

1816 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

I think I have found the answer to my PP error question.....

From the Breaking News post on Priority Points:
"Starbases not set to build earn 2 PP.
Before and after ship limit (if randomly selected)."

"If randomly selected" seems to be the key. None of the 3 starbases set to not build were randomly selected. Also, I did build 1 base and somewhere I heard you do get +2 PP on the turn you build the base. So ship build cost me -4 but starbase build was +2 so the net effect is -2.

This brings up another discussion point. We hit the 500 soft ship limit this turn also. So, before the 500 soft limit, all starbases not set to build earn you +2 PP. After the 500 soft ship limit, starbases not set to build do not earn you +2 PP if they are not randomly selected. New question is: Are bases not set to build ever selected after the 500 soft limit? If not then they will stop giving PP after the 500 soft limit.

1816 days, 18 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Martinr -- I set to build my one ship using code PB1 last turn and will again set to build 1 ship using PB1 this coming turn.

1816 days, 18 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

After the 500 limit they should stop gaining PP as their is no random star base build. Everything should be built using PP points.

But we hit the 500 limit and did not go over.

Did this mean no one put PBX?

Or did only a few who put PBX built a ship and the combat allowed a few random empty SB's to generate PP and then a few random builds?

How much play testing was done?

Was there a melee game in the play test?

Is this all working as it should or have we hit a few errors?

Next turn we will lose a few ships and gain a few slots.

PP will fill those slots and if we don't but enough slots we will never know if we get over 500 slots. Or we may never get over 500 slots.

Joshua can you help us?

1816 days, 17 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Wait 1 turn more before panic :)

It looks like only one person Fed (Mandoor) had a PP a hit comparable to a ship build. Perhaps a Merlin.

One reductions is in line with base loses: The Cyborg (1011010011).

The rest could be a mixture of small PP spend and gain.

From this turn on, no more free PP, just hard earned. Lets see how the balances change.

Keep Calm and Planets on ;)

1816 days, 16 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Gonna be tough for the races with little to no offensive means :)

1816 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Don't panic, things are going as expected. Remember the host order:

Priority Build
Regular Build
Combat
Regular Build

So what has happened here is a few players have used priority builds which could have brought the ship limit up toward or over 500 and then the first regular build would either top it off at 500 or do nothing.

Then combat, so even if there was 502 before combat it got knocked back under 500 then another regular build sequence occurred to bring it back up to 500.

Now if you set a priority build that will happen first pushing it up above 500 but combat could knock it back down again and result in a regular build sequence.

During either of the regular build sequences starbases not set to build will award 2pp if they are randomly selected before 500 ships are hit.

Example:

50 starbases exist, 25 are set to build, 25 not to build.

3 ships die and the ship count is 497. The starbases get randomly shuffled during the regular build sequence after combat and the host starts selecting from the top of the random sequence.

1) First selection: starbase not set to build - award 2 points
2) Second selection: starbase not set to build - award 2 points
3) Third selection: starbase set to build - build ship
4) Fouth selection: starbase set to build - build ship
5) Fifth selection: starbase not set to build - award 2 points
6) Sixth selection: starbase set to build - build ship

Now we are at 500 ships, exit the regular build sequence.

1816 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Is the random sequence generated anew for each build phase or is it created once per turn and a pointer is maintained during the turn.

E.g. can a base which has built in building phase 1 get selected again in building phase 2 and gain 2 PP?
Or clone twice?

1816 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Thanks for clearing that up :-)

I was expecting something like that.

I was also expecting everyone to PBX to fill us up to 550+.

Possibly next turn :-).

1816 days, 9 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

@Emork, it is reshuffled each time. But starbases that have built or produced are removed from the list (so they can not build/produce or clone twice). Only 1 of the 3 actions may be performed by a starbase on any given turn.

1810 days, 17 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Klingon War Correspondent update.

Turn 28 we have had a couple of turns now of the 500 limit being exceeded. We currently stand at 506 ships. With the occasional scrap this will be reduced possibly below 500 but with 27 players I expect the Priority builds will lift this beyond 500.

So no more random builds. So no +2 PP points or the chance of a build without PP being spent.

We have the FoF coming up with 18 ships tied up with under 10 planets so we may have a turn to bring that down briefly below 500. So get those SB's ready for a slim chance of a good PP free build.

So it looks like it does not take much to get the limit above 500. A little manipulation with every SB building a cheap PP ship will make sure it happens.

So no free builds ever. You will only build using PP.

So this enters the realms of your PP counters. The people who know when a where the to use the PP ships and when to not. The new PP combo where you have to put a low PP ship in front of a high PP ship to make sure you win on the PP count. No longer can you build your biggest ships and send them in all at once. You will now have to have a spread sheet of what PP ship to use in which situation. What PP combo to use against carrier and what PP combo against torp races.

Also in alliances and team games where one race does the fighting the other race will never build again. Any alliance with Feds or Lizards will soon run out of ships unless you have advanced cloning.

So you have the Merlin effect for free to clog up the ship slots to stop the free builds but this will not stop other races building if they have PP until you reach 999 ship limit.

So I expect you will see more hostage situations or controlled friendly fights to recycle ships to clear up ship slots and generate PP's. Races that do not have large battleships or carriers will suffer the most.

Unless you bring in say a 1/4 PP for recycling at a star base to assist those who cannot use the hostage situation or do not like the hostage use.

Or say in an alliance allowing the aggressive member to give PP to the other member at say 2:1. Set up a friendly code that spends 10 PP to give an ally 5 PP. This could or could not be abused by the Birds.

1810 days, 16 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

It is an interesting situation. It forces you to spend on only quality ships - ships that will help you the most. It may be a cheap terraformer. However, the +2 pbp is a strong incentive to forego a so-so build and wait for a quality build. The flexibility of post limit pbp's in the bank cannot be overstated.

Using peripheral star bases for pbp generation allows the home world to build high quality ships which can clobber pre-limit ships of other races.

1810 days, 13 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Link to game:

http://play.planets.nu/#/sector/112247/

1797 days, 4 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

The Klingon War Correspondent has been prodded to give an update :-).

Well we hit turn 30 and with FoF kicking in we reached up to 9 dead races.

At turn 31 the FoF kill ships became active and at least 21 ship slots became available from dead races plus others from general combat.

In that turn a high number of PP free builds were possible. In fact I beat all odds and from 7 star bases I had something like 5 builds and a +2 PP leaving 1 SB not getting a build or +2 PP! The ship limit was returned to 500.

So in PQ games I would recommend that your SB's have a reasonable ship build at all times. If you build more than +2 PP ship you will make a profit.

On turn 32 we had a resignation. On turn 33 we reached 502 ships. on turn 34 back to 500.

On our current turn 35 I had a random build and we now have 10 dead. You also can have a turn at the FoF as one player had reached 10 and is now on 11 again (what a shame :-) ). So it may be less than the FoF is the break point or you now get a turn to recover. We are still on 500 ships!

So my prediction of being mid 500's by now was totally wrong (how fares 11 player games on the ship limit?). But people may be saving them for the end game.

I don't see why as we have 778 PP tied up in active players with some players on 95, 84 and 78 PP's!

Maybe some of these players can explain why?

1797 days, 4 hours, 2 minutes ago

apollyon_maximus

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Excellent report, thank you!

As far as why so many PP's, I'm sure at least for some it's because of less than ideal circumstances. Their empire may be overrun, making shipbuilding resource xfer difficult, and megacredits hard to collect.

For me, I took over this empire on turn 11 from caladian2 who had resigned and it was kind of a mess. I was nearly completely overrun by Pirates. Even now, I wish I had more PP's in the field instead of sitting on the scoreboard.

Also, this is my first game (along with a couple other sectors I started for the first time ever) so I am learning about the PP system as I go. I wish now I had queued up more ships before turn 30, all I got were +2 PP's per base and one LDSF.

1788 days, 23 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

With 77 pp I suppose I qualify as an explainer.

Plus I can take this opportunity to also prod the absentee Klingon...

Never a good idea under normal circumstances!

I watched @Joshua's presentation, and joined Mob world with a plan in mind.

I managed to execute fairly well- early peace with as many neighbors as possible helped. (Thank you all.)

I deliberately focused my early game to building as many star bases as possible. Lots of freighters and small carriers, some Patriots for early protection (all dead now), and early tech cobols for later trade.

I built SB's on native planets as priority, but if a rock had minerals in the ground to support an early build, I built there too- even amorph planets.

I built ships almost exclusively on my home world.

Post limit (and a little pre-limit), I used SB's with higher tech than my HW to produce ships specifically to recycle in order to "deliver parts". Plus I gained pp.

And a handful of pp for popping three or four enemy ships.

I've only priority built one virgo, in order to assist in dealing with an aggressive player early game.

I've priority built several small hulls (4 pp or less).

---

The idea is to tech SB's up post limit as I can (or desire to), for real builds to be put in to "cook".

The others simply sit idle as far as manufacturing ships go.

I have gained a number of pp post limit, built several random builds post limit, and am happy to sit on my nest egg until necessary.

There are still plenty of fireworks going off in the sector- and post limit builds aren't uncommon yet- so I don't have a need (or desire) to empty the bank this early in the game.

---

My diplomatic strategy is to try to form trade relationships with neighbors in exchange for military support.

I have no intention of winning this game, nor do I have any intention of trying.

I want to live as long as possible so I can play with the queue system as long as possible.

So far I like it ALOT.

(It may be noted that similar efforts to do the same thing in an eleven player campaign game (same race) have not been nearly as successful.)

1788 days, 22 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Mob World Sector A battle report from the Klingon War...

Hey, stop prodding the Klingon War Correspondent!

Further update.

We have reached turn 39. We now have 12 dead. We only had 1 ship destroyed and we had 9 builds last turn so heavy spending on the PP bringing the total numbers to 508.

So it look like people are finally deciding to spend PP and not rely on the FoF freeing up ship slots.

We have two players near the FoF which could free up 20+ ships for further random builds.

We had one player spending 21 points on a big ship!

And a few people lost a SB and lost PP.

We still have a player on 95 points followed by 77 and 74.

We have a couple of players on 2 and 3 PP so a complete mix of PP’s from high to low.

So we have breached the 500 ship limit by 8 but FoF could bring this down to bring back the random builds. Still nowhere near the 600+ I thought we would have by now.