New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...

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994 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes ago
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bediju
New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? )

http://planets.nu/#/sector/186088

Pitting an ad hoc group of 5 The Horwasp Plague players against a regular alliance of 5 normal races just need 1 more The Horwasp Plague player in 10. slots to get underway.

So it would be great if someone pick up the gauntlet and signs up.

Sincerely bediju
994 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes ago
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wytch
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I looked at this, but it seems a bit difficult for the wasps to win. The 5 non-wasp races can form a super alliance, so they each only need a small number of worlds. Whereas the wasp are alone with no alliance possible.

I can see a very good wasp player winning, but they would need to attack the other races as well as other wasps to get the planet count.

Sadly, I am not that good of a wasp player.
994 days, 10 hours, 9 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Well the Horwasps could "ally" and have a non aggression but if they do win only one could win by getting to the win conditions.
994 days, 8 hours, 50 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
@Wytch,

> The 5 non-wasp races can form a super alliance, so they each only need a small number of worlds. Whereas the wasp are alone with no alliance possible.

Agreed. I believe this would have worked better if created as a team game, with two teams of 5.
993 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I think one team of Horwasp versus another team of non Horwasps with everyone next to each other would favour the Horwasp.

50% Horwasp and the ability to not accidentally attack each other and have ships in orbit of others planets would make them unstoppable currently.

There is not enough experienced anti Horwasp players to effectively stop them.

They can out expand other races and take planets. The ones uncontested in the middle of the team could quickly take planets and then shuffle minerals to the borders. This assumes that rocks don't hard land on ally planets.

Any probes landing in between can be identified and the planets destroyed so no Borg SB chunneling secretly in fleets.

With a solid front and Accelerators from the middle they would win too easily.

Smaller teams and more teams would make them less of a threat.

But 50% Horwasp I think would beat a team of non Horwasps.

But if they were experienced Horwasp fighters and optimised their racial advantages they may have a slim chance :-).

But it should not always be everyone against the Horwasp.

This Borg and Crystaline propaganda of one Horwasp can beat 11 other races on their own if everyone does not work against them is wrong. And they are only trying to get an upper hand to still keep winning.

:-)
993 days, 20 hours, 11 minutes ago
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paudolf
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Completly agree with @martinr. As I'm playing a 6 horwasps vs 6 non-horwasp game.
The problem is almost all people is not experienced against horwasp so, at this moment, I'm the only non-horwasp really facing them!.
However, in my game, is not oficial horwasps alliance and non-horwasp alliance, so just now I'm working together with one horwaspp commander and it's SO interesting!.
@Bediju, try to get experienced non-horwasp commanders or game will be a bit boring because of completly and fast horwasp victory.
993 days, 19 hours, 59 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
A contrary opinion: the Horwasp team has no chance if the other team choses the right races and plays well coordinated.

* 1 Crystal: webs are a show stopper for the Horwasp because they are can't position beams or evade webs.
* 2 Pirates: a little gunboat can destroy 1 pod every 2 turns without getting damage - no matter if stinger or brood.
* 1 Colonial: goodbye protofields. provide Virgos for the counter attack in the mid game.
* 1 Lizard: money for all. create bridgeheads in areas where the Horwasp can nest-bomb. Rex is an excellent planet raider in the early game.
993 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
OK lets set that game up and see who wins :-).
993 days, 19 hours, 47 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I'd love to lead team Repellents but lack the time. Well, if the ante would be around 20.000$ I could take a sabbatical :)
993 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
But I think even that game would be biased as Horwasp is a new race and tactics for and against them are still being put together.

Its not like the rest of the races where most tactics are known and used.
993 days, 19 hours, 31 minutes ago
View psydev's profile
psydev
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Maybe this kind of game concept would work better if it were a fixed-turn limit, and the Horwasp "team" could win if they prevent the non-horwasp alliance from getting 250 planets by turn X.
993 days, 19 hours, 15 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
OK I have changed my mind.

That team, led by the once and future Emperor would beat the Horwasps!

But could any one race stand up to that team or similar?
993 days, 17 hours, 33 minutes ago
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paudolf
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Fascists are also great! pillage+dro clans is a great tactic (at least, worked very well for me).
An with birds, even not having nothing very special, I'm doing a good work thanks to my Darks Wings.
If good played, I think almost all non-horwasp are stronger than horwasps.
993 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes ago
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blowfish
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
@Martinr If you need to take time away from managing your Horwasps in current sectors to join this game, those of us currently fighting against you in them would completely understand. :)
993 days, 16 hours, 50 minutes ago
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paudolf
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
XDDDDD
993 days, 5 hours, 58 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you very much all for answering, be that for or constructively against the way the game has ben constructed.

And on top of everything else being discussed, then the game in question the INVASION game has been joined by the 10th player / 5th Horwasp Plague player, and thus will now now finally be underway for real.

Sincerely bediju
993 days, 0 hours, 30 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Always good to have a healthy discussion with the first post with a link to an unfilled game.

It keeps it in the top 6 slots and will eventually tempt some one in.

I see one Horwasp is in the lead with an early swarm.

Maybe you can keep us informed on who is winning Horwasp or Non Horwasp to help with everyone's predictions :-).
992 days, 22 hours, 54 minutes ago
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paudolf
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Snork is a great Horwasp player! He's on first position in our "horwasp game". Other players must be VERY carefull!
992 days, 20 hours, 3 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Yes martinr I can surely occasionally, albeit limited by ability to evaluate the situation, try to keep you all informed on who is winning Horwasp or Non Horwasp.

And thank you paudolf for the warning that:

Snork is a great Horwasp player!

I certainly hope that one or more players of our 3 more offensive races will also show them self to be good players.

:)
992 days, 19 hours, 17 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
2 x Federation makes the battle a little uphill for the non-insects. Of course it fits well to the story line. Feed your Pirate with some early bases, guys.
992 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I agree emork the lizard king;

it was me making an ill advised choice of 2nd Fed :(

I dont really remember why, maybe my 1st choice was disallowed, maybe I simply overlooked the 1st Fed, or maybe I partly misunderstood the concept.

Certainly I am biased towards and very interested in playing the Feds, that is by far my favorite race.
992 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes ago
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nerim
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
We have no figther Building and no Crystal ......
So i (Privateer) Fed and Borg have to do a good job or we be easy eaten by the The Horwasp Plague easly.
992 days, 16 hours, 16 minutes ago
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issen adtur
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Will it be crunchy?
Will it be tasty?
Will it SCREAM?!
992 days, 14 hours, 31 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Torp races fare well against Horwasp. They have no shields so beams kill the very small number of fighters they tend to have (no 200 - 300 you have to chew through with HC's before you start hitting the ship) and the torps hit directly onto the hull and if it doesn't kill it the next ship will be fighting a massively reduced tech level ship which is easily mashed.

Find the right combo for the ships you expect and have high tech torps.

But then HC's chew up Horwasp ships as well.

I think Horwasps have been designed so the Torp races fair better against them. But I could be wrong as currently any race seems to do well against my Horwasp ships and pods :-(.
992 days, 11 hours, 1 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Even if the Horwasp fight one another, I predict a Horwasp victory in this Sector. The only variable is four races splitting the 500 Ship Limit hasn't been seen against Horwasp.
991 days, 14 hours, 37 minutes ago
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nerim
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
May be you rigth glyn and seems that the 5 Old races not realy play together :(
Anyway first time i see a Horwap figth.

So i hope the Best and expeckt the worst .....

To the rest of the old race set me to Allied it dont hurt ......
I tink the schip limet was on 1000 or get i this wrong ?

Feels like in real life Peace is no option and yes i now Peace is the Time to prepare for war . :)
991 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Unless the Horwasp are set up as a team at the beginning of the game and through the settings... two teams of 5 so automatic alliance... the Horwasp cannot work together. They will fight each other and they will no be able to share intel, although they can share protomines. They are on their own. They can do this in a limited way through messages, but that takes great logistics that some are not willing to do.

5 vs. 5 = doomed Horwasp at the end game unless the Horwasp are a team at the beginning... Even then, there are many things the Horwasp do not have an answer for or the ability to even stop, but since I am currently fighting as a Horwasp, I will not go into detail.

I predict that unless they are a team, they will slowly grow, start to beat back the disgusting soft shells, and then quickly get decimated. Thus ending the glorious enlightenment of the great Horwasp migration.... :-(
990 days, 9 hours, 56 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
They can also share natives with one another via Farm pods.
981 days, 18 hours, 37 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Hi all

Game update for

INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) http://planets.nu/#/sector/186088

After a shaky start, then the normal races has now finally totally allied, but most of these normal races are under considerable to heavy attack by the Horwasps and generally speaking we (the normal races) are struggling to come to grips with the ramifications of the enemies being able to launch such massive but also varied attacks;

and we are trying to learn about the consequences and actual possible threat levels associated with the different types of enemy attacks aka 'ships' like Protofields, Duranium Core(?), Stinger ....

Question

Is there any datasheet available, that correlates the mass of an enemy 'xxx' thingy to its combat values?

This turn we most frighteningly encountered a Stinget, that equated to 3 maxed tech torpedo tubes and 3 maxed tech beam weapons :O :(

Raw game data

Race (player) Planets Starbases War Ships Freighters Military- Score Priority Points

The Cyborg (chadsexington) 28 (+4) 1 6 2 13136 (+82) 462 (+40) 2
The Privateers (nerim) 13 (-2) 1 8 2 (+1) 19586 (+1184) 332 (-19) 0
The Feds (bediju) 33 (+6) 1 6 (+1) 6 14939 (+1480) 516 (+70) 2
The Feds (stargod1) 19 (+2) 1 2 6 (+1) 8010 (+220) 336 (+21) 10
The Fascists (r. m. callaway) 25 (+1) 1 11 (+1) 1 24408 (+3498) 481 (+20) 2
The Horwasp (dobberph) 16 (+2) 0 1 8 (-1) 12306 178 (+19) 0
The Horwasp (snork) 23 0 4 22 (+6) 18264 292 (+6) 0
The Horwasp (sparviero) 26 (+2) 0 18 (+4) 34 (+4) 36039 (+11284) 474 (+64) 1 (+1)
The Horwasp (dimensia) 42 (+6) 0 8 (+3) 35 (-2) 34192 (+17305) 535 (+88) 0
The Horwasp (issen adtur) 24 (+2) 0 5 (+1) 27 (-6) 12596 (+4739) 317 (+24) 0

Totals: 249 5 69 143

Total Ships: 212

Thank you for your interest in this game :)

Sincerely bediju
981 days, 18 hours, 16 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/horwasp-combat-strength
981 days, 17 hours, 57 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you very much martinr :)
981 days, 17 hours, 5 minutes ago
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dimensia
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Sparviero is taking the hydralisk rush approach, whereas i'm going full zergling :P
979 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Hi all

I wonder, could someone of you make a spreadsheet chart that would vertically have entry lines for each increase in Horwasp thingy (like Stinger mass) that would result in an upgrade to minimum 1 of its weapon techs?

So something like

0 mass 0 beams tech 0 - 0 torpedos tech 0 - 0 fighters
x mass 1 beams tech 1 - 0 torpedos tech 0 - 0 fighters
y mass 1 beams tech 1 - 1 torpedos tech 1 - 0 fighters
z mass 1 beams tech 2 - 1 torpedos tech 1 - 0 fighters
....

(cute smilie)
979 days, 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I would also really appreciate some general advice on how to fight the various Horwasp thingies (like Hives, Soldiers, Jackers, Stinger, Broods, Minerals Rocks, Dunghills, Sentries, Armored Nests, Accelerators, Nests, Farms and not least Protofields and Planets)
979 days, 2 hours, 30 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
IS it possible for the Privateers to perform the usual Rob Mission meaningfully against the Horwasps?
979 days, 2 hours, 11 minutes ago
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hays
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
No afaik, if you mean to capture a ship.
979 days, 1 hours, 55 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
> could someone of you make a spreadsheet

The formulae for this, except the unverified Combat Mass formula, are in the Horwasp Combat Strength page. When the Horwasp get closer to "done", we'll probably do something like you're suggesting, but it's too early in the evolution of the Horwasp. This is NOT something we want to do twice.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/horwasp-combat-strength

Creating an Excel spreadsheet shouldn't be too hard, but I don't have the time.


> general advice on how to fight the various Horwasp thingies

At this time, this information is in several threads. Perhaps someone will write an anti-Horwasp race guide.
979 days, 1 hours, 38 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
@Bediju: Webs work well.

If you can't afford large minefields, placing small overlapping minefields inbetween planets works.

I suggest you have ships to spot incoming Rocks so that you can Intercept them before they are in range of your planets.

You'll need to put lots of Clans and Defense Posts on planets near Horwasp as their ships disperse 10% of their Clans to planets within 100ly when they die.

Since larva come out of the ground, you can't just take one of their planets and leave, you have to stick around to re-take it the next Turn and THEN drop clans and build Defense Posts.

Try to take out easy targets when they have PBPs for you to steal... such as Sentries and Rocks... as well as Nests.

You can also predict where their pods will end up when launched from a specific planet to another.

You can minescoop guaranteed before they can minesweep.

Fuel is their weakens, so try to deplete planets they may take of fuel and at least one of the minerals so they can't immediately start launching pods from it.
978 days, 7 hours, 7 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you all for response and valuable info.

hays

I meant to Rob cargo content and fuel and maybe trigger an out of fuel auto destruct.

Is that possible?

Would it damage also say a McBR performing the Rob mission?

Is this a generally feasible modus operandi?

:)
978 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
@Bediju: Yes Rob works against Horwasp and if out-of-fuel they blow up, pods have 1-2kt of fuel (2kt if passed through an accelerator). Ships blowing up doesn't ever do damage to anyone besides Glory Device detonations.

Horwasp can see cloaked ships, but not do anything about it... you can Tow pods to stop them from moving any further. I'm not aware if Soldier and Hive can tow Cloaked ships... might be possible... it came up before but I forgot the answer, my bad.

Also, Webs don't do the per-Turn drain against Horwasp, so I lay them in any races name since Crystals are immune to all.
978 days, 4 hours, 25 minutes ago
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dimensia
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
My advice is to just surrender to your hivish overlords.
969 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you glyn :)

;) dimensia

Happy new year all :)
969 days, 19 hours, 26 minutes ago
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furey
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
The one variable in this would really be spacing. If the map is standard size and no sphere, the horwasp get destroyed easily.

If the map is smaller and sphere is set, the horwasp will eat these races. FoF would kill the pirates, who can easily rob in mid space, but can do nothing to prevent horwasp taking their planets. Virgos as wonderful late game horwasp killers, but early game the colonies have exactly nothing to stop an early brood.

Crystals and lizards are exactly game breakers.

My prediction:

If standard size world with no sphere, this is a romp for the classic races.
If smaller size world with sphere, both pirates get FoF early, the colonies might get FoF later, but the lizards and crystals *still* manage to hold out for a victory, since horwasp simply can't handle the late game, and by then the colonies have build the lizards a half dozen virgos.

;)
966 days, 18 hours, 25 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Interesting points of view; thank you furey :)

Another Question from the recent turn:

I intercepted this nest en route to a planet of mine with a warships of mine with primary enemy set correctly and excess fuel and this turn has intercepted it in orbit of my planet.

But NO combat occurred and the enemy nest still exists.

If it had fuel it should have been attacked;

while if it had not, then it should have self exploded.

How can this at all be possible?

1172: NEST

The Horwasp Plague (dimensia)
Heading: 165
Warp: 6
Mass: 132 kt

Notes
Nest

2 engines Damage: ?%
Crew: ?/1

Hull Specifications

Tech Level: 1 Mass: 31
Engines: 2 Crew: 1
Fuel Tank: 0 Beams: 0
Cargo: 1200

Low energy profile - Must be intercepted to attack, will not hit mines, only visible within 25ly.

Hull Cost

Megacredits: 27
Duranium: 15
Tritanium: 4
Molybdenum: 8
966 days, 16 hours, 18 minutes ago
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dimensia
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
If you look at your combat logs, the answer will come to you ;)
962 days, 2 hours, 29 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
My Eyes dont lies and thus I am very saddened to see, that The Feds (stargod1) in just this turn conquered 2 planets in his space from The Cyborg (chadsexington).

This is a strategic threat to ALL the rest of us normal races as we certainly rely on the survival and thus escape to other regions of the desperately severely under attack The Cyborg (chadsexington).

---

But I do not understand how it is even possible for The Feds (stargod1) to even actually with warships attack The Cyborg (chadsexington)'s planets.

I am allied with all 4 normal races, and I personally expected Real Alliance to be Transitive as in the saying, that any friend of a friend of mine is also my friend.

Can someone please explain exactly how Alliance in this case possibly between all 5 normal races works?

Sincerely bediju

(Note Bene: While I have not yet seen the latest Star Trek movie, then I have recently seen one that is neither the 1st in new series for not latest recent one.

Viewing this movie inspired me to look for free to use Star Trek pictures.)

:)
962 days, 1 hours, 30 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Safe Passage and Share Intel are "one-way" Diplomacy settings. If you give everyone Safe Passage, your ships and planets won't attack them . Share Intel includes Safe Passage and also send a lot of your information to them. They can still attack you unless they also give you Safe Passage/Share Intel.

Full Alliance requires you both to give it to each other in order to take effect.
962 days, 1 hours, 25 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Ground Combat ignores Diplomacy Settings, so you can have Full Alliance and still drop Clans on your Ally to take his planets, including the SSD doing an Imperial Assault.

Starbase Force Surrender and Crystal/Privateer Tow Capture will also still work including Rebel 'RGA' (works against themselves even!) and Fascist Pillage/Plunder.
960 days, 0 hours, 55 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank your for your answer Glyn :)

BUT we are ALL allied Glyn, yet at last 2 of us really FIGHT meaning ship combat versus planets :O

If in a Midshipman versus Mentor games some 'Clever' player broke the 'Alliance' in order to attack dead or open races, then at least in my perception they were dropped (permanentlys as these 'Alliances' were to BIG to rejoin) from the 'Alliance'.

That is what I do not not understand and the core of my Question.

The actual Alliance page:

The Cyborg (chadsexington)
The Privateers (nerim)
The Feds (bediju)
The Feds (stargod1)
The Fascists (r. m. callaway)
Planets: 145 (+1)Military: 186805 (+3097)
The Horwasp (sparviero)
Planets: 65 (+0)Military: 110185 (+14339)
The Horwasp (dimensia)
Planets: 58 (+3)Military: 116434 (+10065)
The Horwasp (issen adtur)
Planets: 52 (+3)Military: 33238 (+2134)
The Horwasp (snork)
Planets: 44 (+0)Military: 59899 (+12426)
The Horwasp (dobberph)
Planets: 31 (+2)Military: 13238 (+0)
958 days, 23 hours, 1 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Has Stargod1 or Chadsexington said anything about it?
958 days, 19 hours, 37 minutes ago
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issen adtur
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Maybe I didnt read up far enough.

The two-legs arent automatically allied- they still have to establish that diplomatic status.

The Invasion sector we are in allows all five two-legged races to ally- but not all five have done so.
957 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Turn 24

SITREP, and my conclusion:

I am basically dead, 1 POD, a Brood killed all my ships :O :(

Combat went totally different from Simulation and he killed all my out of fuel ships as well :O :(

---

bediju (The Feds)

Turn 24 • less than a minute ago • Like

I will NEVER play nor play against the Horwasp again.
957 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes ago
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(lord) livebrains123
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
the horwsasp sound way too strong
957 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
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nerim
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I get a Supecluster many plants.
But i got a Wasp in this cluster at turn 5 i lost my first smalfigther and i dont fly a long distane.
So i can call it a Horor Cluster.

The Wasps are in the beginig to strong in the endgame maybe to Weake . That we dont see the wasp coming is also a problem but if we wood see all it is even not better more horor from the wasp.

Anyway to place 2 Wasp Near me was very nice :)

Good game Dimensia

May the best Wasp win :)
957 days, 8 hours, 35 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I just noticed who is playing the Horwasp. My vote in this galaxy is a victory for the Bugs.
946 days, 17 hours, 59 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Yes Stargod1 the 2nd Fed left the game.

And me a Fed aka the remaining Fed and nerim our Privateer, we are both basically overrun and dead.

Just 2 Broods killed my tech 8 proton 7 torpedo dreadnought and some 15+ fighter on starbase as well.

In my perception the addition of the Broods is totally unbalanced as they are totally Over Powered and the enemies can launch them early in waves :(

The simulations and the actual combats goes VERY differently and NOT to my advantage :O :(

Can someone please check IF the simulator produces believable trustworthy results results?

bediju (The Feds)
946 days, 12 hours, 6 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
@Bediju: Is it the ship vs ship/pod VCRs that are off or the ship vs Horwasp Planet VCRs that are off?

Using the Battle Simulator for Horwasp ships make sure you set the Race to Horwasp.

For simulating an attack on a Horwasp planet all you have to do is activate the Horwasp checkBox, and enter the number of Colonists in the 'Planet Defense' textBox.

So if the planet has 7440 Horwasp Clans, you would enter 744000 for 'Planet Defense'.
935 days, 10 hours, 37 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you Glyn.

BUT, if the Horwasp do NOT have a crew bonus, then I really do not see how choosing or NOT choosing their race in the simulator can matter :O

Actually the simulator, may as well auto select Horwasp, whenever one of their uncapturable ships are chosen.

-----

Sad status in turn 33 in the game:



Race (player) Planets Starbases War Ships Freighters Military Score Priority Points

The Horwasp Plague (sparviero) 112 (+5) 0 86 (+7) 92 (-6) 211649 (+19566) 2072 (+114) 10 (+10)
The Horwasp Plague (dimensia) 74 (+2) 0 77 (+8) 27 (-11) 180618 (+14120) 1537 (+89) 7
The Horwasp Plague (issen adtur) 72 (+2) 0 31 (-3) 27 (-6) 86135 (-3718) 1057 (-16) 0
The Horwasp Plague (snork) 60 (+2) 0 41 (+3) 37 (+7) 140434 (+16806) 1047 (+57) 19
The Horwasp Plague (dobberph) 41 (-2) 0 5 (-1) 48 (-1) 16686 (-824) 508 (-31) 0
The Fascist Empire (r. m. callaway) 31 (-3) 1 14 (-2) 2 39454 (-5667) 572 (-50) 33 (+4)
The Solar Federation (bediju) 26 (-1) 5 (+1) 18 6 47513 (+5041) 1046 (+110) 59 (+10)
The Cyborg (chadsexington) 19 1 8 2 89140 (+9144) 392 45 (+2)
The Solar Federation (open 4) 15 (-3) 2 4 (-3) 2 (-2) 21200 (-9723) 432 (-62) 62 (+4)
The Privateer Bands (nerim) 0 0 3 0 8081 (-204) 30 11
Totals: 450 9 47 12
Total Ships: 59

We are being devastated by the Horwasp's continued ability to hurl at us totally overpowered virtual ship pods.

In my perception both the Brood and the Armored Nest are totally broken and should be adjusted down accordingly.

Sincerely bediju
935 days, 10 hours, 2 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Armoured nest has 3 beams and only attacks when intercepted so are you talking about the right ship?

In games where there are more than one Horwasp the odds are stacked against the others.

Also you have two many torpers. Also two Feds which have no real advantage against the Horwasp.

Also you do not have a Crystaline.

Crystalines are the bane of the Horwasp. They can cripple them with well placed web mines.

Horwasp are early game races. If you don't stop them early game they can destroy their neighbours and then expand onto the next neighbour.

Other races need to get to mid game and start getting out high tech level hulls and weapons. Once you get to that point it takes multiple pods to destroy these ships. Meaning they need multiple planets with enough clans and minerals. And you pick the fights. If the Horwasp is not destroying your economy you start to out produce the Horwasp. Once you have a steady stream of high tech level ships you defend your SB's and keep producing them. You get your economy up and running and then the Horwasp stop taking planets. They run out of resources and you reverse the planet count and they lose.

In a 5 Horwasp versus 5 others the Horwaps will win. Unless the Horwasp get to a point where they can only attack other Horwasp and that may take out one of them.

You effectively need 2 or 3 players to halt a Horwasp to the point where you stop them expanding.

In a 5 versus 5 game you don't stand a chance.
914 days, 4 hours, 9 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you for your extensive and well argued posting martinr

Yes I am talking about that Jackers.

I agree with your observation that these unpretending innocently looking Jackers on the face of it looks like very weak ships.

But this superficial impression rest on not having seen how overpowered the 3/4 damage mitigation really is : :(

---

Just one of them damaged my fully build up Home World 80 % :O :(

As longs as there are 20+ fighters, then that suffices, as the Jackers are beamless and thus do NOT shoot down any fighters.

BUT the taking only 1/4 damage from fighters aka ignoring 3/4 the damage from fighters aka having 3/4 damage mitigation,

that is simply too much damage mitigation, making them effectively unstoppable in time.

Thus just 1 of them making it through can indeed cripple even a very strong planet / starbase, that will then with only 5% repair possible per turn, simply fall victim to the next Jacker, that makes it through to attack it.

While I appreciate the ingenuity of having invented the totally revolutionary novel concept of mixing the availability of both foghters and torpedos like in the Brood;

that maybe not realized by all,

works like a carrier with a build in torpedos (otherwise typically sacrificial) torpedo shield killing ship);

and the vast extension of the concept of damage mitigation;

presently already applied to some torpedo boat groups, allowing these to take just step losses, that at least exist in Campaign games,

to the more general hugely overpowered 3/4 damage mitigation of the Jackers,

which is obviously also an introduction / extension of an interesting concept, but one that NEED to be calibrated to a more sustainable level;

then I for one am very dismayed that the community does not immediate move the recalibrate these ships, to make the Horwasp race a fairer and thus sustainable race in this game.

Other games, NOT least competitive games like the hugely popular LOL league of legens always immediately move to correct errors and issues of need to reduce to sustainable level any powers of champions that are shown to be mechanically broken or having gotten an unintended overpowered skill or combo (combination) of skills.

Including, as I unsuccessfully proposed to apply to Horwasp race in a related string,

by disabling a HERO, making it unavailable until it has been fixed and or recalibrated.

sincerely bediju
914 days, 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
"""
INVASION game Turn 43

I despise the availability of the Broods and the Jackers to Horwasps, as both are totally overpowered carrier and starbase killers :O :(

The Broods on top of this are also more generally killers of any ship types thus including also torpedo ships :(

It is also extremely disheartening, that

despite the obvious fact, that any look at the map or analysis of this game show,
that Horwaps can spam waves after waves of these ships,

that our opponents simply outright collectively refuse to recognize how overpowered their Horwasp race really is :O :(

Respectfully and sincerely a most disappointed and disheartened The Feds (bediju)
"""
914 days, 3 hours, 47 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I can see how you think this. However, by turn 43 you should be kicking the Horwasp all over the place. The Broods and jackers are strong against any small ships, but with no shields, they are weak against medium and large ships, which you should be building by turn 43.

And most of all, just don't fight them if you wish not too. lol That is VERY frustrating to Horwasp players when they make lots of ships/pods with nothing to fight.... then the pods just disappear... poof !

I think the biggest challenge you face is that you are not fighting 1 Horwasp, but 5 of them. Horwasps get stronger if they are working with other Horwasps. The fact that their endgame ships are so weak is limited by the fact that they can work together... if they communicate... and try to overwhelm the enemy with hundreds of their small ships and rocks.... and they don't work very well together or with any other race unless they exchange a lot of emails.

Also, as I have learned, the Horwasp have NO answer for the soft shells known as the Colonies, so if you have at least one competent Colonial player, you should win... although it takes time and dedication.

Good luck!

DD - a little bugged out -
914 days, 0 hours, 9 minutes ago
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vindicator
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
I echo the comment on choosing a fight vs horwasp. Sending pods long range is very expensive fuelwise and the empire edges will not have much. The horwasp core will, but it's not very efficient to move fuel about - an empty soldier can, but devoid of colonists its slow, vulnerable and only really replaceable at high colonist planets.

Once you get big ships carriers you can run rings around us. A horwasp planet is weak when first taken and if there are no resources to build another pod/Rock straightaway - serious halts an advance. One of the most annoying tactics I saw was a player that took a planet, guarded it with heavy carriers, and was in/out with a super freighter before I could react. Yes I could take the planet out with a rock or attempt to retake when the carriers moved - but then what? Takes a bit of time to build colonists and mine to send out some pods again and if no natives, takes longer.

Key is patience, accept losses, picket to prevent pods reaching targets where it REALLY matters and play the long game. At some point those horwasps are going to have to consider who is going to win. If there are 5 of them all roughly equal it's going to be long and messy (unless some pre agreement). If I were in that game as a horwasp, I woukd have been trying to engineer something by now....

But, If by turn 43 you are not in this position, then you are likely in trouble...
913 days, 22 hours, 58 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Thank you very much for your interest in the issue.

However INVATION game Turn 43 litterally:

Race (player) Planets Starbases War Ships Freighters Military Score Priority Points

The Horwasp Plague (sparviero) 163 (+5) 0 201 (+16) 88 (-8) 448596 (+23328) 3728 (+202) 7 (-3)
The Horwasp Plague (issen adtur) 82 (-1) 0 44 (+3) 40 (+10) 165115 (+2644) 1300 (+30) 2
The Horwasp Plague (dimensia) 76 (-1) 0 55 (-10) 7 (-1) 167010 (-16281) 1317 (-111) 5 (+1)
The Horwasp Plague (snork) 71 (+3) 0 102 (+1) 25 (+2) 258445 (+246) 1755 (+42) 27
The Horwasp Plague (dobberph) 50 (+2) 0 26 (-3) 25 (-9) 69639 (-2364) 785 (-19) 0
The Solar Federation (bediju) 14 (-1) 2 (-1) 15 (+1) 7 39100 (+7288) 537 (-120) 135 (+3)
The Fascist Empire (r. m. callaway) 7 (-1) 1 5 2 15151 (+248) 242 (-10) 57 (+2)
The Cyborg (chadsexington) 4 1 10 2 103653 (+3911) 262 81 (+5)
The Solar Federation (dead 4) 1 0 1 0 4410 20 82
The Privateer Bands (nerim) 0 0 2 0 4304 20 11
Totals: 468 4 33 11
Total Ships: 44

The 5 Horwasp overran everybody like half a game ago :O :(

Is there a way to link a picture?

The Starmap is most telling and have indeed been for half the game :(

Sincerely bediju
913 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes ago
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vindicator
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Your other problem is that you have some names in that list who know what they are doing shall we say...
894 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) http://planets.nu/#/sector/186088

Pitting an ad hoc group of 5 The Horwasp Plague players against a regular alliance of 5 normal races.

"""
INVASION

Turn 52 • 8 minutes ago • Like


@sparviero has won after 52 turns. Congratulations!
"""

So now you can go and make your own observations and conclusions.

-

Barely alive and signing out...

Sincerely bediju

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Note bene.

I dont know vindicatorm;

but thank you a lot for sharing your perception and insight :)

And, as said above, then now all can adjust their mental vison.
894 days, 8 hours, 2 minutes ago
View r. m. callaway's profile
r. m. callaway
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Good Game, Spaviero.
854 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes ago
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bediju
RE: New concept game INVASION ( 0067 - ? ) ...Write Reply
Based on the explanation of the changes in the Horwasp Alpha 2 Release notes, then I (a former stern critic of the initial 'overpoweredness' of the Horwasp) am for one VERY positively impressed by these changes :)

So thank you and congratulations on a job well done indeed :)

Sincerely bediju