Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...

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392 days, 15 hours, 47 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not ever?

I think everybody agrees that the feed is not the best place for discussions on topics like drugs or flags or whatever unrelated to planets. With forums you could have such discussions with no problems to other people.

If the feed is not good, could we not make our own forum? Planets Magazine was created by active people who just wanted to do it, outside Nu-site. The Deeper Planets Discussions -forum.

Only thing we would need is that somebody sets it up and some people are designated as admins who act as local sheriffs there. BOOM! A forum!

https://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Forum

You could do it!

(Why not me? I'm not reliable enough :p )
392 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes ago
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vantucci
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
agreed.
392 days, 11 hours, 53 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I believe there have now been two separate attempts to establish an external forum; neither was successful. The sticking point is apparently finding a way to integrate them with the present Site feed.

We're not talking an impossible task here, merely a difficult and likely thankless one.

And then, once it's completed, there'd be the not-inconsiderable obstacle of gaining formal recognition and an on-site link.
392 days, 11 hours, 50 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Two attempts? Please share links, I'd like to evaluate them myself! I wasn't aware.
392 days, 11 hours, 46 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
That's just memory, Koski. I don't know if either is still active.

I'm quite certain there's another attempt currently underway; let me check with the fellow that's working on it to see if he's interested in talking with you about it.
392 days, 11 hours, 39 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

> If the feed is not good, could we not make our own forum?

Absolutely. All it takes is time and money.

Money:
1. Need a domain - $10-15 per year
2. Need the Hosting - About $100 per year
3. Need the software - FREE (phpBB is the most commonly used forum software, and it has a LOT of extensions)
4. Need an NPO (Non-Profit Organization) to "manage" - Cost varies greatly, depending on location. The lowest I've seen is about $500 to set up and about $20 per year.
5. Need an "Umbrella" insurance policy - About $400 per year

The above should be able to be mostly paid for with a few ads.

Time:
1. Need to handle the legal paperwork for #4 and #5 above. Probably 1-2 hours for a Lawyer. This might add to the cost.
2. Need to install the Forum software - minutes through "cpanel"
3. Select, download and install the appropriate extensions and styles - several hours
4. Make code changes for customization that isn't done by extensions or styles - several hours
5. Make code changes to have the forum use Planets.nu to authenticate users - several hours
6. Set up the forums, roles and permissions - about 20 hours
7. Transfer the data from the current forums - 100-200 hours - requires Joshua to agree (possible Copyright issues)
8. Moderate forums - variable
392 days, 11 hours, 7 minutes ago
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gunthor
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Or... just start a subreddit on Reddit.
392 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Gunthor -- We could do that, but much like earlier attempts I fear it would be fruitless. Unless it's integrated, the new Forum will not impinge on people's consciousness, and so it will languish unused.
392 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@commander+koski,

PM sent.
392 days, 10 hours, 38 minutes ago
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qinic
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
An independent forum would never be an issue, can be done in minutes. It be a none flyer, if it does not come up in the feed at all and has no connection to the NU site it will not be visited by anyone.
What we need is the activity broken down by the subjects you select when you post a new entry and only certain topics on the feed, all else only to be seen when you go to activity and click on the subject are, maybe a listing of top recent posts for each subject in the activity home page.
That would be a good start I would think.
392 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Qinic,

I absolutely agree with you. That's what the time estimates in my long post above consider to be the goal.
392 days, 6 hours, 28 minutes ago
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ghostrider
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
it sure would help new people in their search for knowledge, docs are excellant but the how tos cover the linkages between one set of mechanics in with another to achieve whatever purpose ie fuel consumption, distance traveled, an warpwell movement,, all well documented but neither individually gets you to a point of ships moving 83.5 lyrs roughly with some free fuel consumption , that takes how tos , a forum might provide a permanent place for that

places for linkages to this that an the other thing , here ya got to ask for some bodies link to his new charts he set up an tommorrow somebody asks again, ive seen some questions asked a 100 times , an deservedly so

I would think we all had our favorite info places , some were good for mechanics an some good for how to reads, most are gone, will this site step into that breach ? I hope, coarse im ignorant on such matters an skills , but I could pay a small bit more

all that beings said if things are going up we all need to go ahead an pay our 2 year membership , might save some small pennies
392 days, 4 hours, 19 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Ghostrider,

> most are gone, will this site step into that breach ?

The Hosting price I provided above would allow the sites to be moved under the Umbrella, if the Copyright Holder wants. That's the reason I chose that particular plan.
391 days, 21 hours, 24 minutes ago
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stygiusrex
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Reddit.com already has excellent forums. A couple are already set up, reddit.com/r/VGAPlanets and reddit.com/r/PlanetsNu, but they appear to be inactive. I don't know what it takes to become mods and enliven the subs, but that could very well be the place to be.
391 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes ago
View rudel's profile
rudel
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
What I miss most is looking through old strategy posts. Everything in the activity feed is gone after a short amount of time and then it gets flooded again with personal insults and topics of no connection to planets.

I never understood why the old forums were closed. The were so much better than this.
391 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
To my understanding the main reason for ditching forums and going with the feed was having an active front-page that highlights events in the community - ending games, high-level promotions etc. That's a good target.

Forums (or more Forum-like behavior) on the other hand are great for long-term discussions, for categorizing discussions so that non-interesting categories are not visible unless one wants that.

The current solution certainly has something happening on the front page all the time, which is good, however the price is that there are no filters. Stuff that most definitely shouldn't be on the face of Planets.nu constantly end up there. I don't think the off-topic threads are meant to spam the whole community, but in effect that is what happens. Neither do I think our dueling duo actively wants to sabotage the front page of planets.nu, but that is what effectively happens.

The problem is clear. Community is the lifeline for a long-term game like this and it needs to be fostered. Being able to discuss off-topic things is really important for a community, however if that can't be done without spamming others, a key component of community-building is effectively discouraged. Being able to sometimes vent and argue is healthy, however when done on the front page it becomes a problem for everyone because it make the site feel hateful and stupid.

As the activity feed currently is, we lack the tools for keeping it good. Forums would give those filters, but so would developing the activity feed further. A default filter to stop showing discussions tagged as 'off-topic' in the main feed would already solve the immediate issue at hand.
391 days, 19 hours, 28 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I get the point that the front page of a game site should look active with recent topics and that it encourages people to participate.

...as long as the topics are related to the game and not full of constant squabble of a few individuals.

So the best of two worlds would be to have actual forum somewhere, but certain topics would be presented in the Activity Feed just like now. You could participate just like now, but in addition you'd have a chance to explore the actual forum and dig for interesting older discussions. And maybe participate in some non-game related discussions too.

What this would need is that some messages are displayed on the front page. My take would be:
-system generated game (end) messages
-system generated (major) promotions
-all topics started by you and all topics you have participated
-all topics flagged by an Activity Feed administrator as appropriate

Only the last one would take some minimal manual work, but as you'd not need to issue bans or anything, I think we would find people accepted by the community to handle it. Only a number of people who browse the forums anyway and they could flag appropriate discussions (and probably also unflag inapproriate so they'd only be seen on actual forum).
391 days, 17 hours, 37 minutes ago
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kwesy
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Just thinking ...

Wouldn't it be possible to redesign the feed into a forum?
The contents are all here in the feed. All we need is something that presents them in a more acceptable way.
Couldn't a userscript do that?
We already have categories for individual threads. These could serve as "boards".
391 days, 17 hours, 32 minutes ago
View psydev's profile
psydev
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
The newsfeed is basically a forum. (It has categories).

I just wish it didn't delete old threads.
391 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Whoa @Whisperer , I asked for an ad-hoc shelter, you provided blueprints to a nuclear silo bunker! Well, better this way. :)

I put some thought to this and if we want an actual factual forum that is there and works for now and forever, you are pretty much on the right track.

Meanwhile we could use the reddit-thingies or whatever - the problem with Reddit is that how convenient would it be for example for following and bantering about a championship game? If it is mentioned enough in the feed and it has good content, people will come. But it would be a shame if we produce good content there that will be lost forever later.

But if we do a forum that way as you described - how would the financing work? A Kickstarter kind of thing working with benevolent contributors? I could easily donate 120 dollars yearly for a nice Planets.nu forum. I use at least an hour every day on this, I could easily pay that for a possibility to post funny pictures and talk off-topic stuff with fellow planeteers.
391 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Yes Koski, we have forums already right? It just needs improved. And I even see a bigger replica of your face on the forums whenever I read your post!

Go to and bookmark:
http://planets.nu/forums

In the current Nu Forums, you can stick to the type of threads you are interested in like Strategy. Or go to game discussions. And best of all you can avoid going to the Chat Room of off-topic threads. Certainly this website for forums should be improved dramatically like doing a much better job of categorizing threads or truly showing the latest posts on the right hand side, but it seems we have the nucleus of what we need already here?

I am posting this message in the forums here:
http://planets.nu/discussion/okay-some-of-us-want-forum-we-have-feed-no-forum-not

Nu should improve this site or allow some people to improve it (similar to the great documentation team). And then have a prominent link to this Forums web address. Instead Nu does have a link to forums but it links to the activity feed categories:
http://planets.nu/#/activity/categories
391 days, 10 hours, 40 minutes ago
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qinic
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Well we could just replace the feed with an iframe to the forum after we clean up the frontage of it.
That would be the quick and dirty solution.
391 days, 10 hours, 7 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Koski, @Whisperer -- Heh. Nuclear silo bunker. Good description -- and yes, that's pretty much what we'd need.

I'm thinking finance could be casual, and some aspects could be simplified to reduce the price tag. (I dunno; we could declare it a religion, perhaps? It's not that farfetched; I make sacrifices, study, associate with fellow followers, practice a dogma religiously... I don't have faith, but that's a personal thing.)

RE Reddits: There's a reason they get no traffic. Trust me; I'm a blogger. That makes me an expert on how to generate zero traffic on a consistent basis, and a Reddit forum that has no integration with the present site is the perfect recipe. If you build it, they won't come.

If y'all don't believe me, check out the Players group on Facebook.
390 days, 10 hours, 39 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

Here are a few of the UserVoice requests that could be solved by having a real forum:

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/32167402-fix-the-diplomacy-bug-where-long-public-discussion
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/31868152-i-d-like-to-have-a-user-ignore-option-for-the-acti
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/17071177-require-subscribing-to-forums-to-see-them-in-mai
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/4827499-allow-selective-muting-of-specific-players-and-hid
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/3491913-posts-on-nu-s-forums-need-to-be-numbered
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/2488719-upgrade-the-forum-to-phpbb
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/2396629-quote-feature-in-forums
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/2362776-add-a-search-feature-to-the-forums
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/2327654-clean-up-the-game-threads-in-the-forums-for-examp

If the forum supports Private Messaging, a few others could also be resolved.
390 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Hrm. That would be an interesting addition, now you bring it up, @Whisperer: a Flowdock-analogue widget, or at least a persistent group chat that could be set up on a per-game basis.
389 days, 11 hours, 14 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
OK. If we want this to move forward, we need to actually do something. The closest UserVoice request is probably this one:

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like

In addition to being the closest to what I believe is being generally requested (do we really care how we get there? We just want this result), this also has the most votes at 66. If the players want this capability, it's time to tell the Admins.


@Bondservant,

> Nu should improve this site or allow some people to improve it

The forums are currently tightly integrated into the Client code. I don't believe Joshua will allow "outsiders" to update that code-base without some very strict controls. Also, I don't think he has the time to update the software to do this properly. Finally, in order to support any sort of Volunteer Moderators (we've seen that Joshua and Big Beefer don't have the time/desire to Moderate this site), and have them work effectively, he'd have to replace his coarse-grained security policy (security levels are 0, 1 and 2 for Users, Editors/Translators and Admins) with a fine-grained security policy. While not all that complex, it's still not trivial (I know - I've done this sort of thing).

An external Forum would need to have a way for the system-generated Posts (Promotions, New Games, Finished Games, Posts from Championship games, etc.) to be submitted, other than manual. That's likely to be a bit on the complex side, and will take some Programmer time at both ends. Of course, there's still the task of putting it together and testing the basic functionality, but that's a relatively simple task with something like phpBB.


Whether these improvements are done on Planets.nu or offsite, there's a LOT of work involved in doing this task. The "simple solutions" (e.g. Reddit and FaceBook) have historically been non-functional. What I believe is needed is a complete solution that's simple to use and transparent to the user/player.
389 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Wow! It amazes me that Koski had EXACTLY the same idea that I had, even down to using the same domain, posted it 4 days ago and I didn't see it on this newsfeed. Thanks Glyn and Whisperer for directing me to this thread. So yes, my apologies for duplicating an existing thread so exactly, but as Glyn pointed out, the fact I didn't see this thread does kind of prove the point.

I have voted for https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like it now has 82 votes.

Bondservant, I had no idea http://planets.nu/forums existed. Its not listed on the top menu. Why not?

Whisperer your nuclear bunker might be required in USA, but it is definitely not elsewhere. But I actually don't care HOW we get the result, its just the result that interests me. If we can achieve that same result inside of planets.nu so much the better. Keep the Activity feed for official announcements and new game notices, promote the forums for everything else, and activate the tools that allow us to separate the wheat from the chaff. As you say, phpBB is free.
388 days, 22 hours, 21 minutes ago
View psydev's profile
psydev
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I think the Search function needs updating. It seems to barely work. For one, I find that my search queries often do not return results, even though I know a piece of text is in the news feed.

Another thing that would really help with the search function:
- Search for posts by user name
- Search for @mentions of user name
- Search threads started by this user
388 days, 21 hours, 4 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Psydev: The search function ONLY checks the text in the original post that starts the thread.
388 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi,

> I had no idea http://planets.nu/forums existed. Its not listed on the top menu. Why not?

Because that's the old interface. It was shut down over 3 years ago.
388 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
To be honest I do not think external forums without connection to the current Activity Feed would work. If such has been already tried without success, why would it be different now? The Activity Feed would stay and even if some writers would go elsewhere, I'm sadly 100% sure that the problems such as needless squabble filling the front page would stay. Getting new or even existing players to join such external forum would be hard too.

So I'm in opinion that the development has to be somehow integrated to the site. If/as Activity Feed is wanted to stay, we should look ways to improve it. The best would be to limit what is seen on the actual Feed and what could be visible only on the forum.

We want the best parts of both worlds. So presenting an actual living community on the front page and allowing new members a very easy access to questions and commenting. And at the same time a forum where we could post pictures and search messages as well as direct discussions not suitable to the front page.

Naturally we need to make it clear that this is an improvement we'd like to see and that Joshua would be willing to prioritize. He might need to allow others than his direct team to participate somehow, but as he already has allowed people to participate in documentation, it really isn't that big step. And at the very least, the moderators wouldn't need actual punishing power, just a way to hide/show discussions on the front page. Banning, warnings and such could easily stay in the hands of admins.
388 days, 19 hours, 24 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
True. But the old Nu forums link is still useful and worth having as a secret bookmark. For example, before playing Horwasp for the first time a few weeks ago, I put in Horwasp as the search term and I was able to read numerous posts that related to the Horwasp.

And you can search for past activity feed posts by specific Nu players. Even though it is missing posts, it still usually searches the Nu site better than google does with a generic planets.nu search. I put in your name Mekusi and I saw twenty of your posts over the past few months; maybe it is time I reread Dune for a third time. I put in koski and I got enough reading material to last me the entire weekend hehe.

And perhaps, with just a little love, the old Nu forums site could be made to be much better and even more useful.
388 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Bondservant,

> perhaps, with just a little love, the old Nu forums site could be made to be much better and even more useful

I think that would depend on exactly why the old forums were replaced by the feed. Here are the two announcements related to that change:

http://planets.nu/post/the-website-redesign-will-be-the-new-home-page-this-week
http://planets.nu/post/website-redesign-call-for-testers


@Mursu,

> I do not think external forums without connection to the current Activity Feed would work

Agreed. In order to be acceptable to the users and the management, any solution involving an external forum would need to be somehow integrated into the Activity Feed.


> We want the best parts of both worlds

Agreed. That's what I meant when I posted "complete solution that's simple to use and transparent to the user/player" above. It can be done; it takes time, planning and cooperation to complete.


> at the very least, the moderators wouldn't need actual punishing power, just a way to hide/show discussions on the front page.

That would be an improvement over what we have now, but would still require changes to the security model. This is briefly discussed above.

More details on security model:

The current security model at Planets.nu is hierarchical in nature. Every level has the abilities of every lower level. As you add more groups, each having a different responsibility, this type of security model breaks down. Currently, there are two groups (Editors and Translators) sharing the same security level. Maintaining a purely hierarchical security model, while adding basic moderation capabilities, would either give the Editors and Translators the ability to Moderate or it would give the Moderators the ability to edit the Documentation, and possible both. Any of these outcomes would be unacceptable.

FYI, operating systems started moving away from this security model long ago (in the 60s - early multi-user OSes), and applications started moving in this direction in the 80s. Other than Planets.nu, I can't remember the last time I saw a hierarchical security model without at least some fine-grained security capabilities.
388 days, 10 hours, 2 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
> http://planets.nu/post/the-website-redesign-will-be-the-new-home-page-this-week

From the announcement behind the link:
"Players using the forums should start using the new activity feed system and provide feedback on additional features/tools you want to help make the new activity feed just as effective or better than the current forums."

Apparently the developer team was open to adding features to the Activity Feed. It seems that previous features are still missing today, but hopefully we could get the message through that these are actually severely missed and some way to clean up the front page at times would be very welcome too.

I'm not a programmer, but I trust the skills of Joshua and his team that he has created the site the way new features can be added. We as a community can sure help within the limits we can, but need to hear how. And in any case we need to be clear what are the features most crucially missing currently.
388 days, 4 hours, 4 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like now has 86 votes.

I cannot log in to the forums. it seems it is only for people who were members 3 years ago
388 days, 1 hours, 54 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi,

> if it is there and working

Whether or not it works depends on your definition of "works". If you reply to a thread through that interface, it creates a new thread. To me, that's not working.
388 days, 1 hours, 24 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
"Whisperer: If you reply to a thread through that interface, it creates a new thread."

@Whisperer: That is correct.
388 days, 1 hours, 23 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Good point, since I can't log in I wasn't aware of that. So what is between "working" and "removed"? Frozen? Crippled? Broken? something like that.
388 days, 0 hours, 56 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi,

> So what is between "working" and "shut down"?

I think the critical part is "Unsupported". If something in the old interface works, good. If not, tough.
388 days, 0 hours, 43 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi: I get a laugh when someone new ends up finding the old forums and goes awhile before realizing somethings not working right. We're all "Are you using the old forum, is the background white? Please... please stop." Then usual "why haven't they deleted that", "why aren't we still using that" etc.
387 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Glyn, I'm glad you are getting a laugh, I am too so we are laughing together. It just goes to show, if something seems too good to be true it probably is! I should have investigated further before getting myself all excited.
>Then the usual "why haven't the Admins deleted that", "why aren't we still using that" etc.
Amazing, first Koski reads my mind and now you must be a mind reader as well because those were the very questions I was thinking! ;->
387 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi,

> https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like now has 86 votes.

It's up to 89.
385 days, 20 hours, 35 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I really, really think we need a proper Forum:

- I can't find anything in here, really, the search doesn't work.
- I need to be able to post funny pictures. And gif. And embedded video. Period. THIS IS THE FUTURE WE ARE LIVING IN, FOR GOODNESS SAKE!
- I like to participate discussions about minor details and return to them later again, perhaps even a year later etc. It's very hard to find those discussions here in feed.
- Discussing small nyances that interest only a few take space from the feed just as much as an off-topic. And what about something like PlanetsCon? If it's somewhere you can't travel, you dont' necessarily wish to participate the discussions of organizing it, but you don't want to push ignore, either. You just have to ignore it manually. :D
- Discussing Champ games breaks the in-game messaging - if they can't fix it, discussing in a forum would bypass that.
- We don't need something that looks like a forum, we need something that functions like a forum.

I think an outside-the-site forum ran by the community could solve a lot of things:
- moderating could be organized and done without stressing the Planets.nu staff
- no legal problems for the Planets.nu itself
- the feed could actually improve, as it would become something it was planned to be - a pure news feed you could comment and "like"!

I really, really would love to have a working feed and a working Discussion Forum, I believe they would function great together and would be much needed.

(Ceterum censeo, we need a proper Forum.)
385 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski

You may want a proper Forum.

But some people have highlighted the costs and time to set it up.

This site belongs to someone else and they may have other priorities to spend time and money on.

We all think this site is ours, but its not.

Maybe if someone can do crowd funding to raise the amounts proposed to cover the expenses and then gather the people needed to set everything up and put in the hours to create it. Then put a list of Forum moderators for approval.

Then put this into a business proposal to Joshua.

Then when all the money is in to cover say the set up fees and three years running costs.

You will have people volunteering to program it all and cover the moderation.

Then Joshua may agree to assign enough of his time to share what the Forum needs to share information.

As Joshua may agree with you but its his site and his time and money that everyone wants to spend.
385 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Martinr

Obstacles are made to be overcome!
385 days, 7 hours, 40 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Hard cash to the amount needed to cover expenses over a number of years and signed up volunteers may overcome obstacles.
385 days, 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Martinr You make a valid point, also known as the Golden Rule: The person with the gold makes the rules.

I can only speculate as to what Joshua and his team's priorities may be. In the absence of any other evidence to the contrary I would give most weight to the request in the official announcement that @Mursu highlighted:

"Players using the forums should start using the new activity feed system and provide feedback on additional features/tools you want to help make the new activity feed just as effective or better than the current forums."

We are providing feedback as requested.
385 days, 7 hours, 25 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Now, I could set up a phpbb forum in 20 minutes at no cost on one of my other websites. (I'm not boasting about my IT skills, in fact I acknowledge that they are rather meagre, I'm merely pointing out how quick and simple this task has become.) However I suspect that without the support of the team and community I would be its only user. I believe the best chance of success lies in gathering the support of the community and official team by outlining the benefits to them.
385 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi,

> I could set up a phpbb forum in 20 minutes at no cost on one of my other websites.

Setting up such a forum is trivial. It's been tried and failed.

Making it work smoothly with Planets.nu is the hard part.

> I believe the best chance of success lies in gathering the support of the community ... by outlining the benefits to them.

That's the purpose of this thread.

> I believe the best chance of success lies in gathering the support of the ... official team by outlining the benefits to them.

I believe that, once Commander Koski thinks he has adequate support, someone will discuss this with Joshua.
385 days, 6 hours, 11 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I would personally be willing to pay $30 per year (same as the cost of the game) to support a forum. I'm confident that there are 20 more people who would do the same. That should be enough to run it and compensate the moderators at least slightly for their time.

To me, the salient question isn't finances but the choice of moderators. First, we would need a list of volunteers, then a panel (I suggest the Emperors and Nu Team) to choose from among those volunteers.

If you really want a forum, start with who your moderators would be and how they would be chosen.
385 days, 5 hours, 32 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Yes Tomprime, who the moderators would be and what standards they would follow would be critical.

Koski, see below. I found this on wisegeek.org and found it details out well some thoughts regarding the potential roles of a forum moderator. Nothing you don't likely know. But as you read it, it is a good reminder of potential moderator roles, and since the Nu activity feed does not have a moderator, these roles are currently not fulfilled.

..

A forum moderator oversees the communication activity of an Internet forum. He monitors the interchange of contributors and makes decisions regarding content and the direction of threads. Moving discussions from one section to another to keep topics organized is also a common job for a forum moderator.

If the tone of a forum becomes hostile or starts to move in the direction of personal attacks, the forum moderator usually has the discretion to lock the discussion to prevent heated, interchanges. He may also be able to hide discussions he deems unworthy of further discussion. Conversely, topics he feels deserve further examination can be posted indefinitely by the moderator even if they garner no comments.

Moderator duties are as diverse as the forum topics themselves. Some moderators are virtually invisible; they surface only when situations arise that do not seem likely to resolve themselves. Other forum moderators are always there, ready to intercede at the smallest hint of discourse. Public forum moderators often have to enforce many rules of conduct and decorum, as public contributors tend to communicate without abandon, which can sometimes upset other commenters.

Private forums linked to a website or group often operate a bit differently. The forum moderator is likely to be familiar with the members, and may be more lax in enforcing rules if he is aware of bantering members and their tones. Standards differ greatly in forums, and newcomers are advised to post with caution until they get the general feel of the forum's atmosphere. Regardless of the forum topic or ambiance, most prohibit the exchange of illegal or copyrighted materials and pornography and many shun swearing or using inappropriate language or images.

Moderators are sometimes encouraged to join in discussions, especially if they have expert experience or advice to contribute. Other forums prefer their moderators to remain totally objective and mainly serve as impartial enforcers. Occasionally a forum moderator will pose as a contributor to steer a discussion in another direction or offer input without fear of posing a conflict of interest.

In addition to acting as the parent or guardian of forum content, forum moderators are also responsible for maintaining the integrity of the forum in other ways. This requires knowledge of HTML and acuity at moving, merging, adding, and deleting text, graphics, and links. Contributors will often ask moderators to assist them with technical problems with site access and posting.

Supplementary duties of a forum moderator may include relocating discussions to more appropriate sections, closing or locking threads based on dwindling interest or lack of recent activity, editing posts for clarity or content, and deleting threads. Thread deletion can either be temporary or permanent, depending on the wishes of the forum moderator.

If an abusive contributor refuses to cease unacceptable behavior, the forum moderator usually has the discretion to ban the user. If the offender continues to post and eludes the ban, the moderator may opt to access the user's IP address. This enables the moderator to ban the address instead of banning the user by name or email address.
385 days, 5 hours, 32 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Tomprime,

> compensate the moderators at least slightly for their time

I don't believe ANY of the people who run this should receive compensation. The reason isn't that whey they would have no value, but that some would find the trivial amount of money to be insulting.

> I would personally be willing to pay $30 per year (same as the cost of the game) to support a forum. I'm confident that there are 20 more people who would do the same.

I expect that some forum income could be generated by placing one or two ads on each page. Over the course of a year, this might be enough to cover expenses.

Also, as I mentioned above, once there's a Domain set up, it would be possible to migrate some of the other sites from a stand-alone environment to this Domain, with the permission and assistance of the site owner. As an example, Stefan's site could easily be moved to something like 'stefan.planetsnu.org'. This would preserve historical sites, while decreasing the costs and maintenance efforts. Also, a new site could easily be created for each PlanetsCon. It's possible that a small annual fee (maybe $5 per site) could be collected (not for the PlanetsCon sites).

The above would need to be determined by the people who direct the project.

> the salient question isn't finances but the choice of moderators.

This is absolutely a critical question, but I believe there's one with a higher priority. Specifically, any off-site forum would need rules and policies. Deciding on these in the activity feed would, in my opinion, create havoc and, in the end, be counterproductive. I believe that we need to create a small (3-5 people) managing group first, to decide on these rules and policies. I would feel better about this if there were a few Emperors in that group.

> First, we would need a list of volunteers, then a panel (I suggest the Emperors and Nu Team) to choose from among those volunteers.

As above, I think this should be second. I believe the Emperors (past and present) would be able to make good decisions on this, but the above managing group should as well.

As for Joshua and Big Beefer, one of the big gains here is that their burden is lightened. Asking them to be a member of a group might counteract that gain. Of course, they should be "kept in the loop" on anything that's decided, and they should be allowed, and sometimes requested, to provide input if they want, but we should be conservative WRT our requests for their time.
385 days, 3 hours, 52 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Guys, just pick somewhere and go there.

You don't need the Activity Feed to be incorporated into it... the only reason to have an offsite forum is for long term discussions about strategies, recruiting players for Sectors and votes for UserVoice dockets... that is it.

For answering questions, commenting on a new interview, commenting on a new development, Finished Sectors, promotions, new Sectors... the Activity Feed is perfect.
384 days, 22 hours, 46 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Glyn has a point - my primary point that is that I used to start in this discussion: we could just go somewhere else to discuss and take some off-topics with us at first. An ad-hoc shelter.

But in this discussion there has been introduced a larger, more ambitious vision, and thoughts about how we could reach that. Of course in the ideal world we COULD incorporate everything etc. And I think we should aim there. But we can do it in small steps. Small, planned steps, though, I'm not in a hurry. :D
384 days, 21 hours, 46 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Strategies are probably the most important hook for an alternate forum.

Which would make sense that we can 'sticky' a thread for each Race and have a decent search tool.

I'm with Commander Koski on the images aspect, which I think takes Reddit out of the running.
___

FYI: Some of us use Slack for chatting/messaging; http://planetsnu.slack.com
(request and invite from Olegboleg)
384 days, 8 hours, 59 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Whisperer "Setting up such a forum is trivial." Exactly. Good to see you are coming around to our point of view. I suggest that integrating it to the site is also trivial. All it needs is a link in the top tool bar. Leave the activity feed untouched, it does fine for official announcements.

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like
has 91 votes at 7:51 NZT

384 days, 8 hours, 38 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi,

> I suggest that integrating it to the site is also trivial. All it needs is a link in the top tool bar.

As part of the "Transparency" feature, it should authenticate to Planets.nu. A few years back, Joshua put in the API to handle that. Why not use it?

As for a link, I think it would be better if the most recent posts appeared in an iframe under the news items.
306 days, 23 hours, 27 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
> I think it would be better if the most recent posts appeared in an iframe under the news items.

There's now a phpBB extension that does this.
300 days, 11 hours, 25 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Did the independent forum idea die? I would pay a decent amount to not have to read... well, the same thing everyone else is sick of reading.
242 days, 12 hours, 19 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Tomprime,

> Did the independent forum idea die?

I don't know, but the UserVoice request is still getting new votes.

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like

It currently has 111 votes (tied for #2), which is an increase of 20 votes in 5 months of being mostly idle. Strangely enough, the UserVoice request it's tied with is requesting an inbox, which is a feature that's integrated into many forums.
242 days, 11 hours, 50 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I don't really see why there needs to be a user-voice request on this. That's asking the admins to do the work. They would also have to moderate.

An independent forum may cost a little, but could actually HAPPEN. Admins have not indicated that they want anything but what we have, right?

I have neither time nor expertise for such a thing. Anyone willing to get this going? Again, there are plenty of us who would be willing to pay for it. Hell, you might MAKE money on it.
242 days, 11 hours, 27 minutes ago
View snork's profile
snork
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
As I mentioned in another thread, it's not too hard to set up an NNTP server and host your own groups. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to WEBonize it, and people would have to dust off an old news reader.

Google Groups is basically a web interface to Usenet. That might be easier to incorporate into a website.
242 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Tomprime,

> I don't really see why there needs to be a user-voice request on this.

That's an excellent question. Here's the answer I have.

Initially, it was hoped that the Admins would implement this. I believe it's become obvious to everyone that they don't intend to. Given their workload and manpower, I can't really argue that point.

Given that a Forum (or something similar) would need to be implemented by the Users, that brings us back to the issues of transparency, compatibility and interoperability. For an off-site Forum to have a reasonable amount of assistance from the Admins in achieving these goals, I believe the Admins would need to know that they have a large and vocal group of users who want this. The UserVoice request provides them with that knowledge.

> Anyone willing to get this going?

It's been mentioned above that it would be a trivial task for one person to bring up a basic Forum.

One of the core problems with having one person bring up an off-site Forum is that you'll end up with the creation of _one_ person, which might not be what the community is looking for. To get a Forum that's more likely to be accepted, it's necessary to have a group of people decide what that Forum should be.

If anyone is working on creating an off-site Forum, I expect they're putting together that group and, as a group, trying to decide what's really needed. As with any committee-driven task, this takes time.


@Snork,

So far, none of the off-site tools has captured more than a small portion of the active users. It is my opinion that the reason for this is that those tools aren't integrated into the game.

I believe that creating another stand-alone off-site tool would further fragment our community. What I think we need to do is bring the community together.
242 days, 8 hours, 1 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Require subscribing to 'Forums' to see them in main Activity Feed:

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/17071177-require-subscribing-to-forums-to-see-them-in-mai
242 days, 5 hours, 36 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I have decided to register for 1 year simply because of the sheer amount of pleasure I got from seeing Tim's game resurrected. But while weighing the pros and cons seeing this unmoderated forum every time I logged in was the major factor against my registering. I suspect this situation will also be the major factor in whether I decide to renew in a years time. A large proportion of the dissatisfaction in the user tickets can be traced back to the forums in their current form.

In the meantime I have partially mitigated its annoyance by bookmarking http://planets.nu/#/account/"my account name"/games so I don't have to see it every time I login.
242 days, 4 hours, 51 minutes ago
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xi scorpii
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Perhaps a temporary solution could be to have a category specifically for controversial off-topic threads. Then under the user profile a person would have to check a box to be able to see them.

That way visitors or new users would not be hit with those threads on the front page, and others who don't want to see them wouldn't have to "ignore" each new political thread as it pops up.

The default would be not to show them and each person would essentially have to opt-in. That shouldn't be too hard to implement.
242 days, 4 hours, 11 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Nice idea Xi_Scorpii, but I'm not sure the worst offenders would respect it, or stop the hijacking of threads that were originally on-topic.
242 days, 3 hours, 48 minutes ago
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xi scorpii
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mekusi:

Very true. Even though there aren't moderators here, I believe there are those who have the authority to re-categorize a thread if the OP starts a controversial topic and puts it in a different category. @Whisperer would probably know.

As for hijacking a thread that would probably be handled by regular users chastising the offender.
242 days, 3 hours, 45 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
> I believe there are those who have the authority to re-categorize a thread

Any Premium user can add an existing thread to another category. I don't remember if they can remove it from the old category.
241 days, 22 hours, 43 minutes ago
View capt chaos's profile
capt chaos
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Once upon a time, we HAD a forum. The old interface which isn't supported anymore. It was easy to find things that interested you and ignore things that didn't.
241 days, 22 hours, 36 minutes ago
View capt chaos's profile
capt chaos
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
If I can help with the non-profit thing, let me know.
241 days, 20 hours, 4 minutes ago
View cornrelius's profile
cornrelius
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
- I own the Planets-related domain cornrelius.de
- I find that a forum discussing planets strategy and stuff (and other if you like) fits into my portfolio for that site
- I have webspace left
- My hosting has the necessary infrastructure to host a phpBB (mySQL DB, script support etc)

my time is an issue but I can certainly set up the basics and make someone admin.

... just offering!
241 days, 9 hours, 44 minutes ago
View snork's profile
snork
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@whisperer

I wasn't really recommending an off site tool, which is why I pointed out that I didn't know how to make a web interface, which of course, would be key.

I was mostly suggesting that there is already FOSS that can handle the back end (even binaries, not that they are wanted). It doesn't need to be hosted like Uservoice, and *could* be in house planets.nu. I mean, really, the traffic for text "news" is minimal.

Again, just mt $0.02 worth, and I don't so much care, as long as *something* is done. I have lots of not the best ideas that get ignored. :)


241 days, 9 hours, 42 minutes ago
View snork's profile
snork
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Actually, I'd like a "back to top" widget for these long threads.
241 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes ago
View snork's profile
snork
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Actually, I'd be happy if the "feed" were always below my games rather than beside it (desktop).
241 days, 2 hours, 18 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Snork,

> I was mostly suggesting that there is already FOSS that can handle the back end (even binaries, not that they are wanted).

I'm quite familiar with the LAMP stack. If you look at my first post in this thread, you'll see that I suggest "phpBB".

> It doesn't need to be hosted like Uservoice, and *could* be in house planets.nu.

I've seen no indication that Joshua would be willing to provide the resources for a Forum on his servers.

> I mean, really, the traffic for text "news" is minimal.

It is, but it still needs to have a place to run. Most ISPs in the US are blocking service ports, so it can't run out of someone's home. It's cheaper to pay for a hosting service than to upgrade to Business internet at home.

Once you're on a Hosting service, the Forum could easily get some graphics, and possibly even the ability to handle images.
240 days, 23 hours, 27 minutes ago
View snork's profile
snork
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I'm not in the US and have hosted a Leafnode before. I've got an unlimited account with my provider. Considering my fairly hefty bittorrent traffic, I doubt that a bit of NNTP would be noticed. You provide the front end, and I'll provide the back end. ;)

Just saying...
240 days, 19 hours, 35 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
You are all wanting a Forum like you want.

What does Joshua want?

With the lack of comment who knows?

Anyone can set up an external forum but if it is not with Joshua's plans it will be independent and will not change the site.

You will still need the support of Joshua.

If he is not interested you will have an external moderated forum and the same problems here with off topic discussions, people wanting help etc.

With people ignoring the sites forum you will move focus from the site and not help the site community who do not want to move to an unofficial site.

Anyone can set up a external forum and regularly post adverts for it but it will not change the current problems. It may make it worse due to the dilution of people willing to counter some of the unbalanced political discussions with more balanced views.

I am really interested in site change with Admin input. I can happily ignore threads I don't want to read.
240 days, 16 hours, 57 minutes ago
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wmerkel
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Correct me if I am wrong ...

As far as I remember Joshua was afraid to build up a forum due to legal responsibility.
240 days, 16 hours, 18 minutes ago
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streu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Do I tell news if I say that VGAP forums exist? Even forums with connected VGAP host?

planetscentral.com, circus-maximus.com, ...
240 days, 14 hours, 54 minutes ago
View rudel's profile
rudel
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Legal responsibility is usually the case why everyone is moving their forums to Discord, reddit or activity feeds..
240 days, 10 hours, 10 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Rudel,

> Legal responsibility is usually the case why everyone is moving their forums to Discord, reddit or activity feeds..

It's not all that difficult to manage the legal aspects of a Forum.

https://www.socalinternetlawyer.com/guide-to-legal-issues-when-running-a-forum/
240 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes ago
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.....
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
why don't we start a sub-reddit?
240 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
We now have quite a few ideas on how to make a forum. We even have an offer to host it! (Thanks, @Cornrelius.)

What is needed seems to be:
1. A person or team to actually DO it.
2. A team of moderators.
3. An agreement with @Joshua to link it to the site in some way.

Yes, there are other forums. They don't have #3, so I don't know about them and neither do most users here.

Joshua, is there any chance of linking the activity feed to an independent site so that stuff here appears there and (some) stuff there appears here? Is that something you'd be willing to consider?
239 days, 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
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mekusi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Some interesting points raised recently.
@wmerkel I cant speak for what Joshua is afraid of, but this site did recently have a forum, and technically it still does, just in a broken form. And besides, the content of the forum is what we are currently seeing anyway in the activity feed. One idea is to keep the new game announcements and other official stuff in the activity feed, and simply move the other stuff off the feed into a forum. If our two favourite protagonists have sued each other yet I don't see moving their squabbles off the front page triggering litigation.

@Whisperer has seen no indication that Joshua would be willing to provide the resources for a Forum on his servers. But he already has at http://planets.nu/forums
As for the "traffic", aren't we talking about the same amount of traffic currently going through the feed anyway? We just want to move the unofficial traffic from http://planets.nu/#/activity to http://planets.nu/forums

What Joshua may or may not be willing to do is unknown to me, but he did say "Players using the forums should start using the new activity feed system and provide feedback on additional features/tools you want to help make the new activity feed just as effective or better than the current forums."

We are providing feedback as requested. Does Joshua read this thread? Is he aware that https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5827062-expand-activity-feed-to-have-some-more-forum-like has 111 votes at present, not to mention all the other uservoice requests relating to the feed that Whisperer listed previously.
239 days, 16 hours, 44 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I'd prefer an offsite-forum which is moderated and allows images and better search. Offsite because it can be done well this way and then team.nu can concentrate on game issues.
If such a forum would exist I'd appreciate a direkt link from the Planets.nu main page (My Games). In this case I'd also appreciate if the activity part of main page would show only system created messages like victories, new war announcements, promotions etc. (maybe realized as user specific setting).
239 days, 11 hours, 12 minutes ago
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streu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
For those who want a subreddit, there's /r/vgaplanets, waiting to be used.
For those who want a newsgroup, there's alt.games.vga-planets, waiting to be used.
Sure, they have collected some dust. But that doesn't change if everyone is sitting back and pondering what to do. Go use them!

Likewise, PlanetsCentral's forum is open for everyone (except maybe for political discussions that could find a better place elsewhere). Surely the same goes for Circus-Maximus.

Of course, I assume that many are paying customers of planets.nu so it just sounds fair to demand some value for money :->


--Stefan
238 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
There is a group of players who have been developing this Forum idea for a few months now. We have looked at the suggested alternatives and we don't believe any of them offer the capabilities and flexibility we're looking for. We have therefore decided to move forward with an off-site Forum of our own.

We're currently looking for the following:
- A few active members for developing the rules, policies and such, we are working on the drafts right now.
- Several people willing to moderate the forum. These will be selected later.
- A PHP/phpBB Programmer to help customize the Forum software. (We have one, but more people would be better)
- A person experienced with Forum Administration to assist the primary Administrator.

Please send me a PM if you're interested in any of these!
238 days, 17 hours, 59 minutes ago
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cardno
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
To be REALLY successful you will need someone to spark interest. To be a bit confrontational. This is a role I successfully held at Circus-Maximus. I managed to get banned once for a few weeks (not even Glyn or Whisperer can claim that - rank amateurs!!!). I also at the request of host deliberately sparked things up occasionally (which made the latter banning chaff just a little bit!). So I request the formal role of 'forum clown and agitator' (references available upon request...).
238 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Cardno "you will need someone to spark interest. To be a bit confrontational."

Thanks but no, I actually don't believe that people would like that. I think we've had our share of confrontations lately. But fun is something we could have more! Gawd, I miss @mjs68508 , he knew how to have fun in a Forum...
238 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I think there's a vast difference if someone is a bit confrontational against some opinions (that generates discussion) or confrontational against other people (that makes people to stop participating). The latter is what we've seen way too much and without proper moderation that's what any forum will get. There are certain kind of people in every forum unless those are actively kicked out for the good of others.
238 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

> Gawd, I miss @mjs68508 , he knew how to have fun in a Forum

Send him a PM. Perhaps he'd be interested in returning with a real Forum, especially if it's Moderated :)
238 days, 10 hours, 19 minutes ago
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cardno
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Koski and @Mursu See - it has worked already!
238 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
MJS68508 pleaded with the community to stop the constant arguing after the infamous 'Confederate Flag thread'... but he quit most of his games because Whisperer and Gnerphk, the only two people to do so, refused to stop starting arguements as they stated it was their right to continue doing so.

When Ace Rimmer suggested a game of Hillary supporters vs Trump supporters, MJS68508 quit his final game.

If an off-site forum gives them a place to argue endlessly somewhere else, where even there it can be avoided... something tells me they will just continue abusing the Activity Feed here.

Best of luck, and beware the wolf in sheep's clothing.
238 days, 8 hours, 2 minutes ago
View tom n's profile
tom n
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't the "ignore" button allow us to block annoying conversations?
238 days, 7 hours, 8 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@glyn As I see it, Mjs68508 quit playing and being here after he was disappointed with the state of the community. One major part of that was the new way of communicating, changing from a Forum to an Activity Feed. Such a thing changes the way how we behave communicatively and how we are structured as a community. It encourages certain behaviour and certain behaviour doesn't work there anymore.

Activity Feed does have multiple good sides to it and I think it is an useful conveyer of news items. But I miss long discussions from various topics, the kind that you could return to after a long time and that need to be moderated in order to prevent sprawling etc. Some people might find that as "endless arguing" - I find it as pleasurable pastime.

And when you get to deeper levels of the game, longtime discussions and threads are just beneficial for those topics. Like this thread over here you yourself have stored, : http://planets.nu/discussion/clean-tips-and-dirty-tricks-ive-felt-that-since-the (That could use some cleaning up/moderation, for example "sorry, wrong thread" -messages etc. )

@Tom+n I'm not certain what you mean with your comment, but I don't want to ignore conversations. I want to prevent them from turning into annoying ones with moderation and proper location.
238 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Glyn >> Best of luck, and beware the wolf in sheep's clothing.

:)))
238 days, 6 hours, 54 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

> That could use some cleaning up/moderation, for example "sorry, wrong thread" -messages etc.

The Editors have considered creating a Guide from that thread, but it's a LOT of work. Perhaps we'll get to it this year.
238 days, 6 hours, 42 minutes ago
View tom n's profile
tom n
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander Koski,

"@Tom N I'm not certain what you mean with your comment, but I don't want to ignore conversations. I want to prevent them from turning into annoying ones with moderation and proper location."

I noticed recently there is an "ignore" option now which is near the "Like" button. I clicked it on several political threads and made those conversatiions disappear from my version of the feed. I won't say I'm not interested in politics in general, in fact I am, but it's not why I come here. I'm here for Planets, and all conversations relating to this great game. I can get more than my fill of political chit-chat elsewhere.

Anyway, LOVE the ignore button and wonder when it was added and how many users haven't even noticed this option.
238 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Tom+N,

> LOVE the ignore button and wonder when it was added

December 11, 2016 for testing.

http://planets.nu/discussion/new-ignore-post-feature-available-for-testing-and-feedback

Sometime between then and December 30, 2016 for production.

http://planets.nu/#/post/new-features-for-the-new-year
238 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
MJS68508 publicly stated his reasons in both instances.
237 days, 23 hours, 46 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
In any case, with a moderated forum, things could be better! We'll see.
203 days, 22 hours, 28 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

> We're currently looking for the following:
> - A few active members for developing the rules, policies and such, we are working on the drafts right now.
> - Several people willing to moderate the forum. These will be selected later.
> - A PHP/phpBB Programmer to help customize the Forum software. (We have one, but more people would be better)
> - A person experienced with Forum Administration to assist the primary Administrator.

Have you made any progress on this?
203 days, 21 hours, 52 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
- I'm working on the GDPR stuff right now, I should get it ready soon, after that I think the policies are in pretty good shape,

- There are enough of moderator candidates for the beginning, which is nice, especially as we haven't even asked for them yet!

- A PHP/phpBB Programmer to help customize the Forum software is still missing, but that is not required until later, as we first get these other things up and running,

- "A person experienced with Forum Administration to assist the primary Administrator", these we have a few,

So yes, things are progressing, but awfully slow, as people such as me do work and family (and turns!) first and all the rest of this after that, when there is time. (Finnish players are also starting a Public Wolf game right now and I'm participating in organizing it, I just sent some invitations yesterday - if you can speak Finnish and are interested please DM! 5 of 11 player positions taken already!)

Sorry, I'm used to working slow. Hey, after all, I love a game that can take years to finish!
203 days, 9 hours, 45 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

Excellent progress. I look forward to seeing this Forum up and running :)
153 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
As the first step towards creating an off-site Forum, a new domain has been acquired and a site has been created there.

https://www.planets-nu.org/
102 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Here are some responses to questions/comments in http://planets.nu/#/activity/3801636

> aaaagh! The link colors! They buuuuurn!

They're the default colors. I'll see about updating the CSS today to improve them.

> I'll suggest to change the username to just ...

That's a Joshua call, and I'll follow his suggestions on this.

This player hasn't played any turns in a game, so the name could be changed if Joshua wanted to, or he could just scramble the password and email address.

It should be noted that Joshua has been kept informed of every significant step of this project. When it came to selecting the Domain name, he gave no negative response, which was taken as acceptance.

https://www.planets-nu.org/
102 days, 2 hours, 12 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
"he gave no negative response, which was taken as acceptance."

That logic doesn't work in dating or Western legal systems... unless you don't mind prison.
101 days, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski,

> 3 months ago
> I'm working on the GDPR stuff right now, I should get it ready soon

Could you please email it to me? I'll find a place to put it.

Thanks.
101 days, 18 hours, 52 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Regarding the username:

Naturally Joshua has the final word for everything on this site, but in some cases it would be better for the community if the user itself can act. Be that spamming the Activity feed with inflammatory posts or using misleading usernames.

This community is what we users make it to be. By our own actions it can be so that we don't need someone to actively police what we do.

...even though at times I hope there was that someone drawing the line more clearly.
96 days, 15 hours, 16 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Oookay now back to this: calling for a person who knows some PHP - please step forward and help us finish this!

I really dislike the site name https://planets-nu.org and I really dislike that Planets-Nu.Org Admin profile name, as they are too close to Planets.nu to my liking, but people, guess what? I'm okay with those. As long as there are people to keep on working with the off-site forum and it is eventually working, I don't mind little details.

The thing is that things can be changed if they are problematic for some reason AND the idea is that we get people from the community to work together for the off-site forum so it wouldn't be dependent of single individuals. This isn't some one guy's project. I have actually just been making noise about this project and contacting people (with quite bad success!). But as much I want to be part in making this happen, still I should be banned from there if I misbehaved etc. There are good people who have volunteered to be moderators, you know. And there are written out policies that they utilise in making decisions, so they wouldn't be some jungle rules of one's own whim.

We've got candidates for treasurer but we lack a php-programmer. I don't really know why we need one, I'm not a coder. But other people think it's important for some reason. Perhaps just so that we would have many people capable of running the show in case we lose people? I just see that there is a working forum right there we could use right now and we are not using it. But if you know some php things please step forward and let's see this thing take the final steps and actually happen: to become open for everyone.

I already have some sweeeet topics I'd love to discuss about but don't want to spoil the activity feed with them: my Youtube channel, space related literature and autumn related poetry... FASCINATING STUFF!!! Aaaand definitely not for everyone. Already some stuff is being buried in the activity feed and darn one can't find anything from there with the search function!



(That GDPR stuff? Right... I'll get that ready and sent tonight.

But in short - we wouldn't actually need GDPR policies yet and it wouldn't really stop us from creating and using a forum. UNLESS there is some coding stuff that I'm not aware of and for what it would be really important to be aware of the GDPR stuff. For some reason. For being compliant with the GDPR isn't just some certificate kind of thing one must have but really a policy for constant development and willingness to act when people or authorities ask for it - if things are designed so that it isn't possible, then we might have problems in the future. So I'll finish it anyway and try to write it so everybody - in both ends (users and people who run the show) - will understand and maybe some irreversible design flaws are prevented)
96 days, 14 hours, 7 minutes ago
View tom n's profile
tom n
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I really don't see why we need a separate off site location for game discussions. Shouldn't new players have a single site to discuss different topics? Why not have two buttons where it now says "FEED"? One could be FEED for those interested in talking about any topics, even those unrelated to Planets, and a second button that converts the right hand panel to Planets questions, strategies, etc.
96 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Tom+N well, me neither, but as we haven't had those options you mention for ages and seems like we won't be having any in the future, we are trying to solve this issue ourselves, by the users for the users, so the game developers can concentrate on developing the game.
96 days, 13 hours, 24 minutes ago
View tom n's profile
tom n
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Well, I posted the idea anyway, but as you said it likely won't get implemented. Seems like a logical way to solve some complaints about the current feed and keep players here on the main site. You can add a vote here:

https://bit.ly/2NoPV0e
96 days, 13 hours, 9 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Tom+N, having an off-site forum (linked to the official planets page so that no functionality/game announcements/system messages are lost would allow MODERATION.

The main reason I really want this forum up and running is to stop the insults slung into random threads from our local troll. If I could simply ignore everything he says, this game would pretty much be a wholly positive experience.
95 days, 21 hours, 41 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
So if someone posted the following;

"@Acezzz,

I'd suggest that you indulge in self-impregnation, but you already did that when you chose to insult Gnerphk. What wonderful timing you have.

Don't go away mad, but please just go away.

On second though. I don't care if you go away mad or not, but do go away."


Are we in agreement they should be banned?




95 days, 21 hours, 27 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
If they did it the once. Probably not.

If they did it twice, maybe not.

But if one person brings up that one post 20 times to use as evidence of homophobia etc so allowing them to hurl abuse at that person.

Who drags up one off comments about rule one violations and swearing to rub it in and put swear words in to make it worse.

Who drags up old arguments in a non related post just to continue that argument as the other argument has run out of steam.

That person needs banning.
95 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Martinr: Wait... so you lectured me about using the word 'shit' being profanity, but you are ok with sexual comments?

Traditionally sexual content is the first to be censored.

So explaining what 'shit' is to your son, should be far less of an issue than explaining self-impregnation.
___

Tolerating one violation results in someone firing back another.

Come on, that is moderation 101.

95 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes ago
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martinr
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
See what I mean.
Joshua has given no Rule one specifics.
He allows anything to happen.
He also seems to be happy to lose the forums to an external source.
95 days, 19 hours, 0 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Oh no. Not this kind of stuff in a thread that I started: I cannot ignore this thread. I have ignored a lot, but I cannot ignore this one.

Please, no personal, not planets related feuds in public space. One cannot win or lose an argument of personal feud in public space. The whole thing just damages the whole community. So please people, don't continue this. If you do, you lose, we ALL lose the moment you press a button and write a letter in your reply: it doesn't matter what or how you write, you only make things worse. All you write becomes dung and now the whole activity feed is a dunghill.

Forums should be moderated so people with personal feuds could be put to enjoy a time-out by the moderators, the persons should be given explanation what happened ("no personal feuds in a public feed, please solve this thing between you two but somewhere else, then you may return and continue civilized discussion about Planets or off-topics but in a civilized way in proper sections of the forum") AND the moderators could clean up the not planets related mean messages away. That would be swell.
95 days, 18 hours, 53 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Just a few teasers:

https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/about-us
https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules (not finalized yet)
https://forum.planets-nu.org/rt

We would like to thank @Jonnydoh for the contribution of the banner used in most of the above pages.
95 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Sorry, but that banner picture's colors and resolution causes me headache. Like I mean seriously, migraine. So I can't look at that picture. (I suffer from difficult migraine)
95 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
The picture on the main site (http://www.planets-nu.org/) is really cool. I wonder if that could be used as hyperlinks into different forum sections. Would probably be necessary to put text on top of the picture and do some other modifications, but that would be nice in any case.
95 days, 18 hours, 11 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I think the site name http://www.planets-nu.org/ is problematic as it is too similar with Planets.nu - the actual site. I don't want any confusion or mix-up between the two, as the other is a business and the other is volunteer work by users. The reason why it is such now is that we needed something to proceed with and it kinda just came there.

Now I heard it can still be changed at this phase of the project, but it will be harder to do later. What would be a good site name? It should cover the following things:

- it should be .org, as this is volunteer work and we have a vision to create a not-for-profit association in the future to maintain the site
- it should refer to Planets
- the site is not only for the forum, but also meant as a storage and safe haven for all player created tools, guides etc. for the future

Please people, suggest a good site name! If we can't find any good one, we will keep this one.
95 days, 17 hours, 30 minutes ago
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escogido
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
if the goal it to only host a forum, something like planetsnuforum.org could also work
95 days, 17 hours, 27 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Escogido

Actually, I first suggested planetsforum.org , but it didn't work because it will not only be about the forum:

"- the site is not only for the forum, but also meant as a storage and safe haven for all player created tools, guides etc. for the future"

So thank you for your suggestion, but please suggest something else! :D
95 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes ago
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siggi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Planeteers.org?
Theplanetarium.org?
NuNews.org?
95 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Siggi

Good one! But the first two seem to be taken (checked with my browser) and the third one is for - news? It's discussion forum plus OLD stuff! :D
95 days, 16 hours, 41 minutes ago
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siggi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Nupedia.org then?
95 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes ago
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siggi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Planeatics.org
Short for planet fanatics
95 days, 16 hours, 28 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I don't like nupedia. It's too much like some other pedia, like orthopedia. Or nudity encyclopedia. Ungh.

BUT I DO LIKE Planeatics.org ! That's fun and cool, and open for taking! My suggestion www.planetsgame.org is good but BORING. Also, Planeatics doesn't seem to be any registered trademark? Could someone check that from some database?

Planeatics is my new favorite now! I think we'll have to discuss these names first and then make some kind of popularity vote for it - by likes if nothing else!

(Or - is plane too close to airplane? Like are we some aviator fans then? But plane is also like - astral plane - we could be hippies, too! So Planeatics is good. :D)
95 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Just brainstorming:
www.echomanics.org
www.yourhomeplanet.org
www.nuhomeworld.org
www.planeteersinn.org
www.allaboutplanets.org
www.planeteersguide.org
www.thebridge.org
www.nimbusseven.org
95 days, 15 hours, 48 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
vgaparchive.org
95 days, 15 hours, 48 minutes ago
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escogido
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
www.friendlycodes.org
www.leftsideadvantage.org
www.gonewithionstorm.org (sorry neither wind nor blastwave this time)
www.chunneltarget.org
www.timsrng.org

ok I will see myself out now
95 days, 15 hours, 4 minutes ago
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turssi
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
So where is this community forum at?
95 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Turssi

Right now, http://www.planets-nu.org/ - but we are trying to figure out a new site name for it.

I'm off to prepare my summer cottage for winter. You all wonderful people: please keep brainstorming AND as soon as you find a favourite you like, say it out loud. Let's try to find a crowd favourite! Remember - we've been doing this off-site thing painfully slowly and we would love to make this kind of decisions quite quickly so they wouldn't slow us unnecessarily... I'm itching to actually get to use the forum! AND A PERSON WHO KNOWS PHP - PLEASE STEP FORWARD! I'm still not quite sure why we need a PHP person but I'm sure it's a terribly good reason. It's something to do with the useability of the site, signing in etc.
95 days, 14 hours, 20 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
It should be about the community so:
http://www.planetscommunity.org/
95 days, 12 hours, 4 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules

""You are wrong" is not a personal attack; "You wrong because you are an idiot" is."

I agree with that logic, but we know for a fact some people take "You are wrong" as a personal attack.

"we ask that players avoid Foul Language in posts"

Planets.Nu has a filter, worth copying that idea to avoid the workload of removing them manually. Flagging a post via a 'report' link is also a good idea.

"Don't make posts that are inflammatory just to get people riled up."

Does this mean people like NinjaBunny will not be tolerated? People get riled up just by claiming Ion Storms are too random.

"The Planets.nu Administrators have requested that suspected rules violations be reported to them, and not discussed publicly."

People have complained HERE about no actions being taken... why would you want to replicate the problem there? We should know when people get their hand slapped... especially if it manages to curb their behaviour.

We had Sonrix come here and make posts supporting negative views of Jews... according to the rules this is allowed. Now I just ignored his comments, but it was eye opening to see it remain in the Activity Feeds for so long.

So content rules are a good idea, but people go off-topic in threads all the time... in fact the vast majority do so.

"Users shall not argue with Moderation in any Topic. "

Someone loves playing the Fascists!
95 days, 11 hours, 49 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Well, the rules will of course be under constant discussion and development. As for example "Users shall not argue with Moderation in any Topic" is something I personally think is wrong. Of course it is always acceptable to question authority.

But the rules of the forum will of course be one topic in the forum, eventually. And not dictated by anyone, least of all me.

Do you have a suggestion for the site web address, @glyn ?
94 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski: The name is hardly important since you will be relying on people HERE supporting it.
___

The board rules are absolutely awful.... who wrote this garbage? https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules

"Don't use URL Shorteners."

Never mind, the author is obvious.
93 days, 22 hours, 34 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@glyn , please, that is hardly a constructive approach. I have read these rules and discussed them and made some adjustments and agreed that they are good for now and it feels bad that you say it's garbage.

The board rules are almost a direct copy of rules of another board with just a little modification. But it suits us for the beginning. I've also questioned many of those but then gotten perfectly valid explanations for them and seen then the reason behind them.

So it is important to talk about the rules and that discussion is welcome, but that is it's own discussion and topic and for another thread. They are not written in stone and can be changed.

Now we really need a good site address name. It is very important because it will be written here and there and then it will be lot of work to change afterwards. (And a PHP person would be nice, if one would vomunteer that'd be great)

I'm still at the cottage so it's difficult to write these messages with my mobile
93 days, 19 hours, 48 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Commander+Koski: If there were forums that avoided being dumpster fires, I wouldn't already know what doesn't work.
93 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
"Glyn: We should know when people get their hand slapped"

Here's the current plan:

http://planets.nu/_library/2018/9/moderation.jpg

As always, this is subject to change by the Board (a few of the Emperors - you'll find out which ones later).


"Glyn: The name is hardly important"

The Domain name becomes more difficult to change as more information is entered into the Forum, due to the number of posts/pages that need to be updated, becoming extremely difficult once we open the doors (user posts may need to be updated). On the other hand, it's no more difficult to change the rules now than later. This makes the name a time-critical item, while the rules aren't.


Now, while the rules are important, I agree with @Commander+Koski that it would be better to focus on the time-critical issues first, and hit the rules later. If we're going to change the name, NOW is the time to do it.


Do we have any PHP Programmers in the house? We need some assistance with our phpBB board. While this assistance can be purchased, it wouldn't be cheap.

Any new suggestions for the Domain Name? Come on. Don't be bashful. Toss the names out there. While your suggestion might not be the best possible name, it might help someone else come up with something better. Let's see your ideas.
90 days, 14 hours, 24 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
It seems that we don’t get a crowd favourite for site address name, as there is no crowd.

To comment propositions here:

@Mursu ‘s suggestion (planetscommunity.org) is beautiful and sophisticated, but not true: even though the idea is to do a site by players for players, it will in the end be just a part of players who actually use it, even though it is open for all. Stating that this here would be The community is even arrogant, I’d say. Truth is, that like reading books, using a forum is not for everybody: as we’ve grown used to twitters and facebooks and feeds, using an actual forum might feel heavy, cumbersome and painfully slow (there are even settings and you need to learn how to navigate and orienteer yourself there…). Forums are for people who love to contemplate stuff and write and read long texts of considered thougth. Even among Planets players, that’s not everyone, not by a longshot.

www.vgaparchive.org – I’d say first that no but – could be? Perhaps it’s better than planetsgame.org, if we want a neutral candidate. As there is no game there, just texts, tools and discussion.

@Escogido and @Emork+the+lizard+king did some brainstorming and with humour, too, but there was some really nifty ideas there! Like nimbus7.org – okay, it’s an actual historical satellite program but so what – the treaty of Nimbus 7 is a core thing of Planets lore, historical and central to the game also due to the fact that “you can’t attack a ship without fuel!!” is central part of the game mechanics. Somehow, that really crystallises something about Planets!


I think it might be that the people who actually finally push the buttons have the final say to which candidate wins and with what site address we’ll proceed. But I’d pick one of these rather than go with planets-nu.org, as that is too close to planets.nu and also is a bit too restricted to planets.nu (vgap3 should be also included), too (and talk about proper way of writing the name – it’s not planets-nu, it’s planets.nu! :D )

So, I’d say that the off-site forum project has staunch support, but in relative few people, and some people who follow the project with slight interest and amusement. And then there are a lot of people who are indifferent. But so what, Planets Magazine is/was a project started by few for all Planeteers and it has been immensely useful even though not enjoyed by everyone. Let’s proceed!
90 days, 14 hours, 8 minutes ago
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ridgerunner
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
There USED to be a forum. And we could look up different subjects. And ignore stuff we weren't interested in. With the feed you have to look at EVERYTHING to try to find what you want.
90 days, 13 hours, 56 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Just to defend my suggestion a bit. It is not _the one and only_ community, but a community for those Planets players who wish to join.

I could easily live with something a bit humorous like nimbus7.org or so though. The name might not be as clear to new people what it is about, but they will find out if interested enough.

I personally wouldn't put vga into the name. The site sure should welcome all, but it might be a bit misleading and reminds more of old sites created in the 90s.
90 days, 13 hours, 54 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
So have the small group with whom you are already working narrow it down to five options. Put each of those options in its own post in a new thread. The Opening Post lists them all, so folks can see easily. The final post says "please 'like' to vote." Wait one week. Whichever option has the most likes is the winner.
88 days, 8 hours, 58 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
> please 'like' to vote

That gives players multiple votes. One player should only get one vote.

https://www.planets-nu.org/
88 days, 8 hours, 44 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
But isn't that a good thing? I think one should be able to vote all one's favorites. I'll get on this tomorrow ( please all think about your favorite(s) or hurry and suggest new off-site forum and goodies site address name !).
88 days, 8 hours, 42 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@planets-nu.org+admin

As you participate in discussion are all of your comments backed by all the guys currently developing the off-site forum or only your personal opinions? If the latter would be fair to know who you are.
88 days, 8 hours, 18 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
> But isn't that a good thing? I think one should be able to vote all one's favorites.

Good. Updating Vote thread - http://planets.nu/#/activity/3826715
84 days, 10 hours, 11 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
The vote for the site address name is still going and will go for some time now yet - because there are new votes there and we are tackling the PHP issue, so we are in no hurry with the site address name before that is solved.

I was planning that the final phase of the off-site address name vote will be the following: Four top candidate will be chosen. Everyone can vote again, this time by listing all the candidates in their preferred order. The first one gets 4 points, secon 3 points, third 2 points and fourth 1 point. The idea is that we are trying to find out the most preferred candidate of them all.
80 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Okay, the vote is on!: http://planets.nu/#/activity/3838039

And the votes by everybody are wonderfully diverse! This could end up in any way!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WJKGMXXqmE5nLqH-heYBx8cn8LRqkVyFC1bN6q9eG_o/edit?usp=sharing
79 days, 19 hours, 6 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
As I was the one who sketched the winner of the initial vote (planetscommunity.org) I'd like to let everyone know my thoughts. I think the site is definitely about the community, but as a site and domain name one suggestion is clearly superior. That is nimbus7.org

Also otherwise I'd like the site to be called:
Nimbus 7 - The Planets Community.

That name has everything. It is very characterful and welcomes everyone. It is not only planets.nu specific and doesn't get mixed up with the main site. The url is also shorter to write than planetscommunity.org

So please consider this when voting. You can also change your vote (I believe it is possible by editing your message - correct me if I'm wrong) if you like.
79 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
> You can also change your vote (I believe it is possible by editing your message - correct me if I'm wrong) if you like.

The News Feed will allow you to change your vote if you're seeing it in the right format. Also, @Commander+Koski will allow votes to be changed.

http://planets.nu/#/activity/3838039
79 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@Mursu is doing here something very good - campaigning for his candidate!

First of all, there is still 6 days time to vote. AND to change your vote! As I will count the votes in the end of the week (I'll give a warning when that time approaches). You can change your vote by editing it.

The off-site web address will be a permanent one, so this is a very important and long lasting decision! Because of that, I would love to see some serious debate and deliberation on the name.

So - almost one week for you people to campaign for your candidate! Argument for your candidate here in this thread! Vote for your candidate in the other http://planets.nu/#/activity/3838039 - and please, for clarity's sake, don't campaign there! Only votes there!
79 days, 15 hours, 51 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
numbus7.org - To me, this name is too obscure. If you've read the docs, it's a great name. It will be totally incomprehensible to new players. Worse, it will seem to be -intentionally- obscure in an already complicated game. I believe it will make newbies think we're elitist.

nuhomeworld.org - I dunno. Too Nu-centric?

planetscommunity.org is the obvious choice.
79 days, 15 hours, 16 minutes ago
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mursu
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
I want to make a counterpoint to your reasoning @tomprime

No new player will guess the correct url and find the site that way no matter what it is. Instead everyone - a new or a veteran - will end up there by following a link. And you don't just post links without context or some additional clarification. Also we know a classic VGA Planets site Circus Maximus where the name certainly didn't make the site not popular.

I also strongly champion that the site should call itself clearly Nimbus 7 - The Planets Community (even though the url is just nimbus7.org). So anyone following a link would instantly get the same information as url planetscommunity.org suggests. That naming convention would in my opinion follow the wishes of the majority considering also the initial vote.
79 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Very good points, @Mursu. Here's my issue.

Common new player thoughts:

"I spend hours on logistics and then get my tail handed to me by some Admiral before I even get to build the Enterprise."

"Host order? You mean there's something ELSE I need encyclopedic knowledge of to win this game?"

"So the guy who already knows the game gets all of the campaign toys, too? These people just hate new players."

Do we need to add:

"nimbus7? What's that? Another thing I need to understand before I can even begin to succeed here? Elitist b@st@rds, aren't they."

Now, personally, I love the name. Embodies the idea of all players coming together in peace to talk about war. I just don't want to discourage newbies any more than they already are.
79 days, 14 hours, 44 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
@tomprime from that perspective, the treaty of Nimbus 7 is something a new player absolutely needs to learn and understand to learn the essential game mechanics, so I would claim it is an asset, not a liability :)
79 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Beginners are not the ones that will utilize a 3rd party forum in any significant manner, if anything it will insulate you from them.

Activity Feed does one thing well, that isn't going to change.
79 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes ago
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ghostrider
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
there are a lot of folks that would write how to's on many many subjects , an these writings could become easily available to our users . Many of us learnt by going back an reading this or that or using compiled data done on specific topics, located on all sorts of different servers , our documentation here is the greatest , but if a writer wanted to write everything known about say minesweeping, minelaying, an scooping, an all the specific ship orders of such , all located in the same area , an preserve it for future users -----

we have a newer generation of folks skilled at charts an graphs , which can take good info hard to understand an put things into visual terms , making stuff easier to understand, for that generation

besides the how tos what about the imaginative writings that could be done on subjects like histories an wars

theses are things which would become accessable again to all .

these folks are artists , im a woodcarver an given a blank piece of wood . I cant leave it blank for long.

give these folks a place to put there creative talents to work an keep it an make it easily accessable to viewers, an the doers , an I pray theyll go to work for the benifit of all
74 days, 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
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tomprime
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
As a last-ditch effort to put planetscommunity.org over the top:

nimbus7.org is yet another opaque reference in an opaque game.

planetscommunity.org makes us look welcoming!

The vote is SO CLOSE.

Two people giving planetscommunity.org 5 points each and nimbus7.org 0 points would put the better name in the lead!

Help me, Opi-dan Kenobi. You're my only hope!
74 days, 0 hours, 52 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Why not both? Like I said, if you are going to blow money on being a non-profit which requires insurance for at least five people... registering a few names isn't much of an expense.

Main reason I voted nimbus7 (.nu) is because there is no website I use often that starts with an 'n'. When I type 'p', I already get the one I want... now I'd have to at the very least press an arrow key down. If you are typing it all out, naturally nimbus7 wins.
___

@Tomprime: I'd say obscure rather than opaque.

So... how about nimbus7.planetscommunity.org (.nu) in the event that planetscommunity.org wins , and vice versa... planetscommunity.nimbus7.org (.nu)

Not changing my vote, but there is pro's and con's to each name. I'm not surprised the top two contenders are what they are, literal vs fictional.
71 days, 8 hours, 12 minutes ago
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planets-nu.org admin
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Follow-on from the Voting thread (http://planets.nu/#/activity/3838039):

I'm glad that the community is getting involved in this. One of the points I've stressed with @Commander+Koski is that I don't want this to be "my" forum; I want it to be "our" forum. This can only be accomplished with community involvement.

I'm working on changing the name. This isn't an especially fast process, as there are a few bugs to be fixed first, and I have a "Real Life" (job, family & friends). While the new "www" page works, none of the "teaser" pages are in place at the new site.

https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/about-us
https://forum.planets-nu.org/app.php/rules (not finalized yet)
https://forum.planets-nu.org/rt

Many of the rules have been placed into the old forum (https://forum.planets-nu.org/) for discussion by the Board of Emperors. As feedback is received from the Emperors, the rules are likely to be updated.

https://www.planetscommunity.org/ :D
70 days, 3 hours, 31 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
"Many of the rules have been placed into the old forum (https://forum.planets-nu.org/) for discussion by the Board of Emperors. As feedback is received from the Emperors, the rules are likely to be updated."

The rules should be voted on... you vote on the name, but not the rules?
70 days, 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Not saying they need to be voted on today, or even here at Planets.nu ... but still voted on... and open to voting for eternity preferably... I've mentioned I am a direct democracy advocate before so that shouldn't surprise everyone.

69 days, 21 hours, 35 minutes ago
View commander koski's profile
commander koski
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
Hi Glyn,

I don't think the rules should be voted on. The name thing was easy to vote but we didn't get more than 64 votes there. If we would vote on the rules, the numbers would be less (I know, as even the Emperors are not very interested in paying attention to them) so the results would be pretty erratic.

But I do agree the rules should be constantly questioned, discussed and developed. Therefore there would be a section in the Forum where people can discuss the rules constantly, and if there raises a need for a rule change, the Board of Emperors (about the three or something who would be actively involved) would accept or reject those proposals. So there would be open public space for dissent voices. The tightly bordered space where it's decent and proper.

I'm more an advocate of meritocracy.
69 days, 20 hours, 40 minutes ago
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glyn
RE: Okay. Some of us want forum. We have feed, no forum. Not...Write Reply
"Glyn: voted on... and open to voting for eternity"

"CK: rules should be constantly questioned, discussed and developed"

@Commander+Koski: Essentially these are same end result... except with mine you don't need human effort exterted for decision making.

Plenty of forum software with built-in voting tools.... super easy to code even if it isn't.
_ _ _

A meritocracy can't exist without some authority determing merit... you either prefer representative-democracy meritocracy or direct-democracy meritocracy (or not democracy at all). I also prize meritocracy, but be careful mentioning it online... it is considered a 'dog whistle' by some leftists.