One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

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2350 days, 10 hours, 24 minutes ago

One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

I have two ships about to depart to mine the straight-line path between two planets.

Is it better to create one large minefield, or several overlapping minefields? I was going to create three minefields in a line perpendicular to the travel line such that three minefields would overlap along the travel line and give ships a 3% chance of hitting a mine,

If it doesn't work that way (i.e. 1%/ly is the max) then a larger radius minefield would seem a better choice.

Thanks for any advice!

2350 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

each minefield has a separate %. So if you are flying through 3 overlapping minefields, you have a 3% chance per lightyear for a mine hit.

2348 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Downside being that, once inside overlapping minefields, it's easier to shoot them apart as a ship's beams will hit all fields it is in.

2348 days, 8 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Wow, what a great tradeoff! :)

I love that this game is so well balanced in that every apparent advantage also has a disadvantage. Reminds me of games like Team Fortress 2.

Thanks for all the great advice mikeydz and cervidal.

2347 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Likewise having multiple minefields that are in pattern but not 3+ overlapping fields increases sweep time due to the limit of possible mines swept at once. While still retaining coverage of a single massive minefield. But many mini minefields has to be built before fighting begins. That is when big minefields that overlay come in handy to push one or entrap ships that stray. To close.

2333 days, 23 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Assuming you're not fighting colonials anyway. Multiple minefields just wastes your minerals faster then as they are easily fighter-swept. In that case one big minefield is better because it requires either multiple turns or more fighters to sweep (often meaning multiple ships). Although minefields in general are a waste on the front lines vs the colonials other then as a scorched-earth way to remove minerals and money from planets you expect to lose shortly.

Always some race out there that requires a slight change in tactics. :)

2333 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

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2333 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

I agree if there is a threat of colonial minesweeping. The Colonial fighters will be able to clear far more mines in a single turn than if there were fewer large minefields. So in that case the need will be for fewer placed fields in key areas. But in all other cases placing small minefields that require a lot of small movements make it much easier to prevent big 10 beam ships from sweeping 4000 mines a turn by limiting the mines in the field.

By having to stop every 10-20 Ly to sweep another tiny minefield you really eliminate heavy waste from a high beam fleet. And it eliminates the strategy of ramming big ships full of supplies in just to get a few more turns of minesweeping. Or to be closer to the target. However I think it really takes a lot of expert planning to work out economically. Not only to share the burden over quite a few planets so fields can be rebuilt rapidly. But also due to the higher total decay rate due to many fields.

But to commit to such a system of defense requires a lot of paitence and a whole portion of your fleet dedicating to sole cause of laying many small minefields. Not only that it can make your posture defensive centric which can cause eventual stagnation and endgame brittleness. So there are a lot of ups, but there are a lot of long term outcomes to watch out for and avoid. I think this strategy is best employed in small areas where fighting is rougher to delay while you shift your disposition for whatever aim. Or to be employed to delay for reenforcements or to just stall as long as possible till inescapable death.

2323 days, 7 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

theres several ways to use minefields. first you have to figure out what is the intent? offensive or defensive, then the intent for them. to stall or delay or to to damage. if stalling or delaying then you have to consider resources. do i have an ample supply or am i working with just 90 torpedoes. am i trying to prevent ships from fleeing? or advancing?. and who is the enemy in the situation.

1 thing ive found that makes the whole point. if and when an enemy ship actually takes a hit from the minefield do i have any ships within range to intercept it?

far too often i have seen robots lay a huge minefield to attempt to damage my ships some 300 lyrs from the nearest ship. its pointless in most cases to lay minefields to damage ships if your not gonna finish them off, 2 points on this matter are, 1) if he takes a hit is he going to turn around and get repaired? this is a waste of the advantage of him actually hitting the minefield. 2) if he does enter my minefield slowly will he be sweeping them in the thousands? again its pointless in this case to just throw away resources if your not going to anything about the ship sweeping them. but on a sidenote, if the the intent was to delay his advance or slow him down until reinforcements can arrive? ? then this does in fact work for that purpose.

in the end unless your fighting small mass ships such as the privateers dont expect minefields to destroy the ships by themselves. the need the help of your ships to finish off the wounded. so have a good strategy in place park some interceptors strategically so there is a point to your minefields.

in your case i would lay the smallest minefield around the planet your protecting and have interceptors over same planet. if he stops to sweep you can intercept his ship. if he comes straight in you still attack his ship, but the difference is you have a small chance that he took damage on the way in giving you an advantage in the VCR finishing off the wounded ship. if you have the resources you could attempt to overlap minefields over the planet your trying to protect. but keep them small so he has to come within 81 lyrs of your interceptor to sweep them. or risk an an even greater chance of taking damage if he was to come straight into the planet.

2318 days, 20 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Both.

2317 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

That's a great point Eeon, and I have used that personally a great many a times.

It is very easy to just lay everything you have as fast as you can to stop the impending horde. If I run into vast mines, I will take my time and eliminate all of them. It costs a whole lot less for me to destroy the mines than to plow through them. And more than likely, the only thing you are gaining is time. And you are paying your entire economy to wager for it. Unless you are about to be integrated into a borg hub. You will waste yourself to dust by using too many mines.

2316 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Boves + Feds = Lots of torps, lots of ships, lots of mines. Take your time, here come the dreadnoughts.

:)

2316 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

If I understand mine fields correctly, traveling through 1 ly of 3 over lapping fields is the same as traveling through 3 lys of one minefield. Therefore traveling through the does not give you 1 3% chance of hitting but 3 1% chances of hitting. Statistically speaking there is a big difference between the two. In the case of the latter you have a 1 / 1,000,000 chance of hitting 3 mines. This seems trivial when discussing only one 1 ly, but when traveling greater distances through multi minefields the odds of multi mine hits become dramatically different.

Personally I think multi smaller fields is usual better if you have the time to set them up. 20 mk7 is my default mine drop.

Lindy

2316 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Like ecv says, it depends very much on the situation.
I usually prefer large minefields, because due to their radius calculation
without Pi they have a higher mine density than the smaller ones.
Without increasing the probability of a hit though.
That on the one hand means that they are more stable when it comes to
countermining, and on the other the radius change is smaller, when a
sweeper comes along.

If we say that a strong enemy sweeping fleet is covered with one big minefield,
not all of his ships will be able to sweep due to the id order of the sweeping process.
to handle the optimal sweeping behaviour of a fleet is very hard and rarely works out properly.
if you however have 10 small minefields, he can easily split his sweeping fleet up.
and eat them much faster, while it took you longer to set them up.
optimal as always is to lay the minefield as large as possible with it's border being just outside
the sweeping range.

If we say that for example we are fighting a race with cloaking ships, we need a larger coverage
to damage and destroy those intruders. then the effect of the radius calculation then turns around
and puts many small fields in favour. you can see this effect in the previsualization when trying
out differen amounts of torps: the more torps you lay, the smaller the difference of the
radius becomes.

2315 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

You're understanding, but the question isn't about hitting 3 in same ly, it's about hitting 1 in one ly. 1 ly in one minefield is 1%, three overlapping fields for that 1 ly is 1 + 1 + 1.

To me, if you have one route they have to come through you lay multiple little ones, to up the probability in that vector (sometimes you can route around small fields). However, if you're trying to cover a broad area just laying down a big surprise field to get some bangs from cloakers, then one big one is probably more efficient.

2315 days, 1 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

yes, but in this specific situation you risk being countermined,
because the small minefields contain less mines in relation to
their size than big ones do.
if you are sure that this won't happen, like in the early game,
it is always best to lay those minefields in front of the flying ship,
just outside the sweeping range of 5 ly. and overlapping, yes.

2300 days, 9 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

Wanted to thank all of you folks in the community for all the terrific minefield advice, which my final strategy leaned on heavily.

For those interested, you can see a short animation of the resulting short-lived game-winning minefield here: VGAP Viewer animation

(Scroll the planets into view and find my homeworld before pressing Play -- minefield in question materializes turn :56)

2300 days, 0 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

So you went for the small minefields, what was the impact on your enemy?

2300 days, 0 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

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2299 days, 21 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

For my application, the many small minefields approach worked very well.

My enemy (Fed) was able to very effectively sweep the larger minefields with edges closer to their position, but the smaller minefields forced them to move in to open space. It was an expensive solution, but I was very close to the win condition number of planets and was only concerned with providing maximum delay to the invading ships.

I had two or three Virgos at each planet along the border, escorted by Cobols (vs. his 20-25 Dreadnoughts and Missouris). With the Virgos parked, the Cobols were available to continually erect and maintain the many minefields and he was never able to clear a path.

When they finally made their push out of desperation, they were forced to move slowly and concentrate their ships along a single corridor. Too late, I had reached 200 planets by turn 64, game over turn 69.

VGAP Viewer animation

2243 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: One big minefield vs. multiple overlapping

It depends on the situation, and alot of the previous advice is good. I like to lay smaller minefields in the travel lanes between planets (minefields that enemy ships have to waste a move to sweep), and overlap those with large fields to doubleconcentrate and keep mine supremacy in an area. Sometimes a smaller field can get into multiple travel lanes, which is a great result if you can do it.