PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...

« Back

807 days, 19 hours, 19 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game.


As the PLS 50 x2 Team game has stalled and some had interest in a campaign game I am now thinking of starting a PLS 50 campaign game for the original 11 Races.

In these games there is a ship limit of 999 but the player has a personal ship limit of a minimum of 50 and if they are over 50 planets they can have up to the planet total.

Planets = 15 Ship limit 50.
Planets = 25 ship limit 50
Planets = 75 ship limit 75.

In a game with set ship slots you theoretically should have a faster flowing game as you do not have the fear of losing a ship slot and not regaining gaining it. So it is a game or how you use your resources and not who can grab ship slots.

Some races may like more ship slots to use as utility ships (hissers, environment changers, move MC around etc) but they are limited to the planet limit. You may have to be more flexible with your utility ships but you have the option of recycling a ship and building it exactly where you want it and don’t have to move it 100’s of LY’s.

There is also the fear of 50 Nova’s are no match for 50 Gorbies. But if you have let them build 50 Gorbies that is your fault. Also the ship slots are not lost and if you can rebuild Nova’s faster than the Gorbies you will win.

So it’s a game of resources not ship slots.

So its what you use your ship slots below 50 planets that will make you a winner. And when you are over 50 planets you get even more ship slots to play with.

Additional game rules.

1. DO NOT HAVE MORE SHIPS THAN ALLOWED. As the Host program cannot currently manage the ship limit it will have to be self-moderated. I ask that players not to plan to have more ships than they have the limits for.

If a player is within 10 ships of their limit I will try and remember to send a reminder in the public forum.

If the ship limit is exceeded I will again inform everyone in the public forum and ask that the player(s) involved doing the following until the ship limit is below the limit:
a. Cancel all ship building at star bases and do not build any more ships.
b. Other players to not give them ships via gsX or force surrender at Star Bases.
c. Tow Capture by Privateers / Crystaline AND ship capture in combat is allowed by an additional 10 ships but (a) and (b) still applies.
d. Do not use other methods to obtain more ships.

Possible extra rule of dropping the minimum limit to 45 ships at turn 100, 40 ships at turn 120 etc. So on turn 100 if a player has less than 45 planets then they have to act as in rule 1.

2. DO NOT ABUSE THE SHIP LIMIT. Eg By giving hostage ships to another player to reduce their active ship limit. Other methods of removing a players ships from play but not destroying them or taking them over (leaving them fuel-less in vast overlapping web minefields or chunneling them 1,000LY of the edge of the map. Or by giving large numbers of ships to a non-allied player in a one sided exchange and then giving specific orders on how to use them etc.

3. YOU WILL NOT QUIT. You should understand that you quitting takes away from the enjoyment of others in the game, and should enjoy playing even when you are unlikely to win. You agree to not resign, or stop playing while remaining in the game (including holiday mode) in any fashion. This is also a ship limit experiment and sticking to the game helps verify the work ability. But if you cannot continue please contact me and I will pause the game and try and get a replacement.

4. ABANDON SHP OPTION. If a player has a ship without fuel or cannot easily get to it they can declare “Abandon ship". To declare a ship as "Abandon ship" they change the ship name to Abandoned Ship, send a general message to all giving the ship name, number, how it became out of their control, grid reference, nearest planet and who is responsible. They must do this every turn for 3 turns. After 3 turns and they still do not have free control of the ship the host will declare the ship a ghost ship. In game terms that ship is not counted on the ship count but the player must GSX of any race that is at the same point in space. Of cause leaving ships without fuel is against the principles of the game. The player will have to keep broadcasting the ship details so anyone can pick it up.

Possible game set up:

Minimum rank Lieutenant
Fight or Fail 15
Campaign points 550
Max Ally 1
Irregular round map
Planet Scan range: 300
Ship Scan range: 300
Star Cluster: 2
Nebulas: 2
Debris Discs: 4
Ion Storm 4.

Game set up included:
Ship friendly code needs to match to transfer.
Extra alchemy codes.
Additional MC downloads

So if anyone is interested in this format post here and once I have enough I will start a game.
806 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes ago
Profile Image
rsk
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I'm interested :)

Wondering about the 550 Campaign Points limit - any particular reason for that?
806 days, 11 hours, 33 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
550 is more and allows more to be spent (and I have more than 500 points :-) ).

But it can be dropped to 500 if everyone wants a standard Campaign game.
806 days, 11 hours, 3 minutes ago
Profile Image
qinic
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I liked the idea of a team game, campaign or standard I don't mind.
806 days, 10 hours, 58 minutes ago
Profile Image
edward jellico
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Should have more campaign games. The additions really help the severely disadvantaged torpedo races.
806 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes ago
Profile Image
issen adtur
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I'm also interested in whatever gets us going- but I'd like team format if possible.

Campaign is fine, the 550 points is also fine.

Stellar cartography?
805 days, 18 hours, 52 minutes ago
View robpac's profile
robpac
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Still interested in this format, plus it's going to be my first team game, so double plus good from here.
805 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes ago
Profile Image
issen adtur
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I still hold to the theory that the PLS format removes the alleged torp race disadvantage.

If you don't have to count pp for ship to ship combat- it's more a function of how you build and use your fleet over how many pp you will win or lose in the exchange.

Torpers can set up their stacks numerically with a bit of effort- forgoing the need to use numeric fc's to set battle order- and getting a shot at left side much more often.

The better fleet, and economy to support and replace it, will have the advantage.

I personally feel that the PLS format forces me to rethink my strategies for every race.

It's a game-changer as far as the "Great Ship Limit Question" is concerned.
805 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@Issen+Adtur I agree about the torp race advantage leveller.

In this format you do not have to count PP's. You just need to keep supplying your front line SB's with minerals and MC's and keep churning out ships that are mineral and MC efficient not PP efficient.

You run out of minerals and MC's and you are in trouble.

Privateers and Crystalines do have to change their tactics.

Now they cannot rob and web the player to no ships. Another race loses a ship it can replace it. So instead of keeping the ship for later they now have to decide to quickly throw it back at the enemy as a combat ship or use it in some way or have the option of recycling the ship to turn its components into one of their ships.

Instead of taking the ships slowly they have to take the ships quickly. So consuming the enemy resources and quickly using the resources against them.

Its a different version of their old racial ability.

The game is limited by resources and how fast you can keep refilling your ship slots and getting them to the fighting.

Doesn't anyone else want to try a queue system which effectively infinite supply of ships that is only limited by your resources and not how fast you or someone else can spam slot fillers?
805 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes ago
Profile Image
44starkiller44
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@Martinr
>>>Doesn't anyone else want to try a queue system which effectively infinite supply of ships that is only limited by your resources and not how fast you or someone else can spam slot fillers?



I find the idea quite interesting....but I just started and am tapped out on game numbers. I think that is a very worthy experiment, however.

On the other hand, it changes the game quite a bit....the ship limit and PBPs are a huge part of Planets. So you may be seeing a bit of reluctance to play a very very different game.
805 days, 12 hours, 18 minutes ago
Profile Image
major tom
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I'm interested. I like campaign games. Not crazy about the team game, but I usually try to find a neighbor (or two) to team up with anyway. However, If no cloning of non-allied players ships, who your team mate is doubly important.
804 days, 12 hours, 54 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@44starkiller44 Its not that different. Its not like I have introduced a new over powered race ;-).

The queue is still there its just more balanced. For a 11 player game we effectively get a 550 ship limit with everyone getting 50 ships. As the game develops you get more ships but no one loses access to their original 50 ships.

Its more like the real world. You produce to your empire size.

Queue spamming in WWII would be equivalent to the USA building lots of 0.2lt engine Jeeps with no weapons (mass spamming Warp drive 1 SDSF's) back in main land America every month. Then this stops Germany building a Panther tank even though they have the production capacity and spare crew to man it.

@Major+Tom you may not the no cloning ships is not stated as a main rule in the game set up. But if every one wants it can be a main rule.

804 days, 3 hours, 49 minutes ago
Profile Image
maitre
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I am still game for this. I even volunteer for a Priv or Crystal slot, if others are still too afraid to try them. ;)
804 days, 3 hours, 39 minutes ago
Profile Image
banthapoodoo
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Newbie question, what is PLS? What is PLS 50? How does campaign affect? Research I'm gathering.

A lot of terminology that is unclear.
804 days, 3 hours, 19 minutes ago
Profile Image
issen adtur
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
PLS is shorthand for Planets Limit Ships, as in the rule set stated in original post- each player gets 50 assured ship slots, or their planet count whichever is higher.
804 days, 2 hours, 51 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
> the rule set stated in original post

The original announcement for this game was http://planets.nu/discussion/pls-2-x-50-team-of-2-standard-game-with-no-cloning-of-non.
802 days, 10 hours, 12 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
PLS is as stated Planets Limit Ships. Just a new custom queue that requires the stated house rules to play as the host cannot run it automatically.

Unless we get enough votes for Admin to consider it :-)

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5579406-implement-the-proposed-nu-pls-planets-limit-shi

Campaign is not effected. I have decided to drop the campaign points back to 500 for a standard campaign game.

In this game its a free for all on the ship cloning and no rules about only cloning ally ships like my original team game had (but I could start up a separate one for a non team and can only clone if you ally with some one).

I will start up the an other interest game tomorrow.


802 days, 10 hours, 8 minutes ago
Profile Image
banthapoodoo
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Reason I ask is that I've been reading that campaign is a great equalizer, though I've had no experience with it.

I'm not seeing many campaign games, and I'd like to get involved in one.
802 days, 9 hours, 56 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@Banthapoodoo

If you look in the New game section some of the custom games have Campaign games activated.

They Will have in the top left of it:

Campaign mode: Enabled

Max Advantage: 500

But they are only a great equalizer if you have high ranking officers with lots of campaign advantages bought.

http://planets.nu/#/officer/59576/advantages

That is your Colonies Officer and you have some resources to spend.

Look over the advantages and ship designs and see what you want to spend them on. The more expensive advantages can be the better ones.

You probably don't have enough to buy anything decent.
802 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes ago
Profile Image
banthapoodoo
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Pretty much lieutenant and above for campaigns. Makes sense. I'm not there yet. Need to learn classic/basic first anyway.
787 days, 15 hours, 1 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Game created following above guidelines.

http://planets.nu/#/sector/228597

780 days, 23 hours, 8 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I have had a concern about double beam not being true in the set up for this game.

For campaign games this is like the end turn number in a Diplomatic game.

It appears in the setting but has no effect on the game.

In the Diplomatic game the game does not end at 100 turns (the default number which is visible in the game settings).

It goes on until the diplomatic win conditions are reached

So having:

•fascistdoublebeams: true
•starbasefightertransfer: true
•superspyadvanced: true

or

•fascistdoublebeams: false
•starbasefightertransfer: false
•superspyadvanced: false

has no effect on campaign games.

So if any is set to false and you activate it in your advantages it will work.

If any is set to true and you deactivate it to spend the points on other advantages you do not get it for free on top of other 500 advantage points.

I have tested this in test games a long while ago.

So these toggles have no effect in campaign games. Only non campaign games to make them Standard format (or a reduced variant of Standard game).

So if anyone else is concerned do not be.

780 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@martinr,

> I have had a concern about double beam not being true in the set up for this game.

It's in the docs.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/customization
780 days, 14 hours, 23 minutes ago
Profile Image
lord pollax
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I reminder that the Privateers and Crystals are rather handicapped, as their primary abilities get neutered pretty badly. I was forced to "capture" ships in webs and then leave them in their owner's control without fuel, usually towed to a central web location away from the front. This limited the ability of the trapped ship owner to build replacements.

I could not "tow capture" them reasonably without having to sacrifice other ships to get within limits or unable to build anything when needed.

Situation is worse for the Pirates, with no web to keep out enemy ships bringing fuel. Granted, almost everything they catch is better than what they can build. Base destruction was very hard for them though.

Is odd as it might sound, it might be best to disallow either race in the PLS format.

I speak this from a pair of PLS game finishes, including a Crystal.

PLS may support well the themed games @Talespin has been publically discussing.
780 days, 14 hours, 10 minutes ago
Profile Image
glyn
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@Martinr: "Martinr: has no effect on campaign games."

Same with NuQueue Sectors;

"Glyn: either of 'campaignmode: true' / 'productionqueue: true' overrides and makes the "fascistdoublebeams, starbasefightertransfer, superspyadvanced" settings 'true' even if it doesn't say so."

http://www.vgaplanets.org/index.php/Custom_Sectors
780 days, 13 hours, 37 minutes ago
Profile Image
jason williams
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I would be interested in the game.
780 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@Lord+Pollax "Not allow Crystaline or Privateer in PLS games?"

Bit like we should not allow Rebels and Evil Empire in normal games as they never win?

I disagree with your comments. They need to be in the games to try different tactics.

If the Privateers and Crystalines play as they would normally, yes they are disadvantaged.

In the Original queue you won mostly by dominating the ship limit.

You fill slots and dominate the PP queue.

Some races are disadvantaged and this is how the win order has been established in the Original queue.

We have the Nu Queue which may create slightly different tactics. Slot domination is less effective but still exists.

We may see a new winning order which may be slightly different from the Original queue system.

In PLS the tactics are different. The only way to dominate the ship limits is by taking planets so increasing your access to more ship slots. And by maxing your economy to replace ships as you lose them.

So its now not the slow domination of ship slots. Strangling your enemy of the ability to build by ships by building ships by spending 1 or 2 pp's to slot fill.

Now it will be how well you use you economy to replace the ships you lose. Run out of resources or build the wrong ships and you will lose the war.

These games to win you have to move fast and be good at your economy and not spamming ships.

Like everyone else the Crystaline and Privateers will have to adapt.

They can no longer steal ships so weakening the enemy by simply removing ships slots as there enemy can replace them. That's the whole concept of the PLS queue.

But they can:

Remove ships from the enemy.
So removing resources which have to be replaced.
Keep the ship permanently if its is useful for their economy building.
If its a fighting ship use its resources against the enemy, making them
consume resources.
Take planets to remove ship slots from the enemy and increase their
ship slots.
Etc.

Privateers have Gravatonic speeds to tow freighters so making their economy faster than other races. Dropping minefields mid space from cloak to upset economy routes. Hit and run tactics to disrupt the economy.

Crystalines can still web the hell out of the place and cripple ship movement and therefore economy building. They also have the option of turning every planet to 100 temperature while in peaceful time while instantly turning those ships to DF's and CT's when they go to war.

So your thoughts that Privateers and Crystalines should not be played in PLS I think will prove to be wrong.

Like all game format changes you need to adapt to win.



780 days, 9 hours, 41 minutes ago
Profile Image
lord pollax
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Again, I point out I've actually played the PLS games. You speak in theory, I speak in experience.

Please feel free to play either of them then, then let me know how you develop tactics that will actually help when a racial benefit becoming a negative attribute due to the nature of PLS.

Your usage of the EE and Rebels for examples was frankly indicative of either your lack of experience or inability to frame a decent argument so you present a red herring. If the EE couldn't Dark Sense and the Rebels couldn't RGA, you would have had a point. Both can and do win in regular rules setups however. Neither are handicapped by inability to use their abilities. Having crap fleets... ummm, maybe. Not part of this discussion though.

Both the Crystals and Privs main abilities are to acquire enemy ships. PLS dramatically impacts the usefulness of this. That is not opinion, it is fact. Crystals are the lesser affected since the webs serve a dual purpose. The Privateers are all but useless in PLS; effectively a taxi service for allies and a minor nuisance for enemies. Take my ship? I build a new one. The Pirate gets to keep it (recycling a ship elsewhere) or recycle the new catch if >PLS count. Net gain? Nothing for the Pirate if at the limit, which will happen very early for him. Primary ability yields him nothing much of the game ... think about that.

PLS is a great system, and I like it a lot. This said, don't bullsh!t me about what the Crystals and Privs can and cannot do in PLS. I know, having fought them and actually played as Crystals in the PLS games already. My words here are a culmination of the discussions already had in these games. Learn from our in-game experience. Ignore them at your peril.
780 days, 8 hours, 57 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
My examples of Rebels and EE were just examples.

They do win.

As I expect Privateers and Crystalines to win PLS games. How often will be decided by playing the games.

If you note in my format everyone gets an extra 10 ships that cannot be built and can only be captured.

Privateers and Crystaline gain ships easily so this is more to their benefit.

So this is in their benefit to balance the game imbalance.

Only time will tell with PLS and as there has only been a few games which predict races will dominate and are weakened.

So what will you say if a Privateer or Crystaline win a PLS game?

Every race has its strengths and weaknesses.

Some players can win with every race.

I bet if Emork joins a PLS game he will master it and win with any race.

So you also saying they should not be included in PLS games from your experience is about as valid as mine saying they can adapt and can win by using their strengths differently.

And the fact I am trying to promote the PLS game while you are trying to put people off joining.

There are multiple conditions in games that decide who will eventually win the game.

I am highlighting the potential positives to overcome you reported weaknesses.

780 days, 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
Profile Image
banthapoodoo
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
As a new player, change is not a bad thing. Yes any race can win if you've played the game for 20 years, but not everyone has. Some races are clearly better than others depending on game format. Carrier races generally have a better chance than non-carrier. Diplomacy balances all I've said, but if you look at it purely from game mechanics, it's not balanced. So campaign gives torps a bump up. Great. Different queue systems, good. Try different things. I believe that this game should have balanced out all races, and didn't a big shortfall, and THEN let people like Emork dominate. In multi-player the eventual balancing factors against players like Emork is that everyone realizes how good he is and tries to kill him early, but that comes back to diplomacy.
780 days, 7 hours, 27 minutes ago
Profile Image
swagger
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I am interested.
780 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes ago
Profile Image
lord pollax
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I guess we must agree to disagree, since you are not even being honest about what I've said. I'm in no way discouraging people from joining a PLS game. My comments in the forum has been consistently positive about the overall PLS approach, this thread included.

I chose to play Crystal in the last PLS to prove it possible to compete in spite of the handicap. I had played in the first PLS as well, so I knew the troubles. I say what I say not out of spite, but out of actual experience. And I still love the format! My comments in post game critiques following the game are consistent with my comments today.

Perhaps you ought to check those comments out, and the game discussions on future enhancements. It would be a better use of time over "highlighting potential positives" for a game type you have never played.


http://planets.nu/#/sector/144553/activity

http://planets.nu/#/sector/100282

The last one was the first trial game. The top one was the last PLS game hosted.
780 days, 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
Profile Image
banthapoodoo
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
@LORD POLLAX

This game has never been balanced at a basic level. 20 years of experience can balance the game. But without 20 years experience, it comes down to what works with one type of game for one race won't work for another.

Simple as that. So, crystals in PLS won't work, but in basic they do work. Evil Empire in PLS will work, but in basic won't work. Knowing that, will more races work with PLS? If so, then it works. If not, it won't.

Better solution is to bite bullet and try to balance the game at a basic level. But since that hasn't happened in 20+ years, doubtful it will happen now.
780 days, 4 hours, 47 minutes ago
Profile Image
major tom
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Well, I hope some folks join the game soon, I think it is going to be fun to see what can be accomplished as a torp race where bad trades are ok. I probably won't win but, it will be fun blowing stuff up.

779 days, 11 hours, 24 minutes ago
Profile Image
issen adtur
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Pfft.

I played EE in PLS and got creamed by the Borg/Rebel alliance.

While I see L.P.'s point, a couple experiences don't make it a rule of law.

I would think a savvy privateer would be happy to exchange a BR or MCBR for a beamed carrier.
Get one with better beams/engines- recycle (or use the old one till it dies)- and carry on.

On the crystals- what's wrong with stacking up owned or un-owned (ghost) vessels in a protected "junk yard" to draw from at your leisure?

Seems like a valid tactic to me.

Privateer could do the same thing- and until the owner can claim it "lost"- it's on their books as a slot. The no boarding party fc seems to be made for this type of tactic.

I see challenges that need to be overcome with new thinking- and I'd like to continue play-trials of the PLS system and continue to amass data.


Opinion alert!

I believe typical racial strategies no longer apply in the PLS format- and while you can play one and be successful with "old" thinking, it'll be new thinking that proves the formats validity.

It may be that it's MORE valid with campaign options- I'm interested.

Therefore I declare that IF the PLS-50 team game fails to start before this one-

I'll play privateer if no one else want's it.

779 days, 5 hours, 15 minutes ago
Profile Image
lord pollax
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
A trade for a carrier will not save the Pirates my friend, not in a game where everyone is throwing ships willy-nilly into combat since ship slots do not matter anymore. It is all about what you can build in your own starbases, and how quickly you can get them to the front.

And what is wrong stacking ships? 1: The incredible amount of fuel required to haul them to a central location. 2: The opposing players immediately cry foul and raise a challenge about the ethics of such a maneuver (yes, this actually happened). 3: The whole racial ability is about capturing ships to use now, on the frontlines. To be forced to scrap them so you don't lose other valuable ships serving valuable roles neuters the racial benefit to virtually zero.

PLS is all about fighting, and it is good fun. Races which cannot fight well will not finish well, at least not without a lot of diplomacy and very good luck (like droppers). Bloodfangs and Merlins are hardly a fleet people shy away from. No one is afraid to engage a Crystal built fleet. Remember, there is not pbp concerns... it is merely ship slot versus ship slot. Stronger ship slot wins.

Economy is huge, as are the logistics. Crystals need to spend about 10k cash to create a loaded Thunder. Emeralds run about 25k cash with Mk8 and fully loaded torps. But ultimately, in both PLS games I might add, the real ship limit was mineral production. Producing 3-5 ships per turn will be very challenging in the late game. Loading them is even harder. Fuel is so very precious too. Even having 3 refineries cranking out fuel, it is terribly hard to keep your capital ships fueled and heading to the front.

Many fun challenges in the PLS system, and I do look forward to playing it again. It sounds so easy when they say "You can build all the ships you want when you want them*", but the reality of making that happen is very difficult.

I hope you guys have fun, and @Issen, I hope you have better luck in this game.
779 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes ago
Profile Image
44starkiller44
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
OY! We only need 4 more 'interested' to start!

Anybody?
778 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes ago
Profile Image
jason williams
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
To add to what Lord said one thing we considered is a ship Mass limit instead of a ship limit, that way the Pirates and others have a chance it would be based on race per say.
I consider myself a pretty good pirate player as well as crystal won a few games, and I don't see the issue as much on the crystal as the pirates, but the pirate limited to 50 ships is a hinder since the ships are so cheap and so it will be key for them to have 75 planets min, and I would not be opposed to given them more. As for me I would not play the pirates in this game, but I think this game will be an interesting one especially if similar outcomes to previous.
770 days, 10 hours, 12 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
8 interest only 3 more to start.

@Jason+Williams Privateers are hampered by their start place. Next to Lizards, Feds, Crystaline or Robots and they are severely hampered.

Currently there is no way to have a mass limit that can be linked to the score board. So its down to a ship limit.

Everyone will be limited to the same ship limit.

There is a 10 capture limit which can be better used by the Crystaline and Privateers.

And at least the Privateers will be less hampered by mine hits. They lose a ship to a mine hit and it can be instantly replaced. No PP's have to be spent. No competing for a ship slot with others.

But if we don't get to 11 interest no one can find out if a race is hampered or not by the ship limits.

769 days, 13 hours, 17 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Do the interested parties want to indicate which is their preferred race when we do start?

I did want to play the Feds but if no one wants to take the Crystaline or Privateers I may have to take either.
769 days, 13 hours, 13 minutes ago
Profile Image
issen adtur
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I'll still take the Priv if no one else wants it.

I'll play anything really.
769 days, 11 hours, 43 minutes ago
Profile Image
maitre
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I was willing to take Crystal. Not sure if I am able to play that slot though?
769 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes ago
Profile Image
qinic
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I'd have no issue playing Chrystals either.
768 days, 10 hours, 38 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
OK so no fear that the Crystalines or Privs are too disadvantaged then.

How about the slow to fill races like EE and Rebels?
767 days, 14 hours, 47 minutes ago
Profile Image
jason williams
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Crystals no issue for me either, I played Privateer at end in similar game and it was great getting ships I lost but to be effective in Rob you just need hoards and a Priv with 50 ships will be hard pressed to win a game, typically you need about 75 or so to have a shot (and not be next to Fascists, Feds, Lizards, Crystals did I miss anyone) ;-)
I will gladly play Rebel or Evils, I actually think the Evil with their fleet might be at a good advantage in this type of game...
766 days, 12 hours, 27 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
OK 10 players now interested.
762 days, 20 hours, 42 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
We have 11 interested player but I have confirmed at least one does not want to play now.

So anyone interested please also press interest or PM me for the password.

The game can now start when we have a full player list.
762 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes ago
Profile Image
44starkiller44
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
darn darn darn DARN.

I was playing only one game, because I wanted to play some of my interest games. I had 5 games on my interest list, all pretty far from joining, and figured there was no way they would all start at the same time.

This is number 3 in 3 days.

I cannot possibly play 4 games, three at the same stage.

BUMMER.

This one filled up at the end....
Sorry guys.

I'll catch the next one: I'm watching Martinr's games, I like his settings.
762 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes ago
Profile Image
maitre
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Thanks for trying starkiller, you did well in promoting this one. Hope you make it to the next.
761 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
OK thanks for letting me know @44starkiller44

It looks like we may be 3 down now from this and another PM.

So if you want in let me know.

If you want to request a specific slot post in here and this will give you priority.

If we do fill up in the next few days I will be putting the game on hold for a few days for a brief long weekend holiday and will stop the game for other holidays if everyone agrees.
761 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes ago
Profile Image
edward jellico
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I am interested and would prefer Birdmen if possible.
760 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
5 joined 6 more to start.

We have available:
Lizards
Birdmen (EJ has indicated interest but not joined yet ((think I sent the password but site does not save anything)
Borg
Crystaline
Rebels
Colonists

PM me for password if interested.


760 days, 14 hours, 42 minutes ago
Profile Image
killagain
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Sounds Interesting, Ill take the Borg. Please send me the PWD and Ill join.
760 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes ago
Profile Image
edward jellico
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I'm in. To properly role play the Birdmen, I should agree to PLS rules but secretly violate them right?

(kidding of course) look forward to a good game.
760 days, 14 hours, 25 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
I have been asked about is cloning allowed in this game. This was one of the rules of the PLS team game which did not transfer over to this one.

So cloning is allowed if your race is allowed and you can capture or trade ships.

There are three rules to cover the special circumstances of the PLS format.

1) Don't have too many ships (main rule)

Limit is minimum 50 or your planet total which ever is higher. You can build up to this point. Beyond which you can steal through combat or web mine and privateer rob up to 10 ships.

We may not have to implement any of the other PLS rules if everyone sticks to Rule 1.

2) Do not abuse the ship limit (to cover limits of rule 1)
The host cannot directly control rule 1 so this is just to make sure everyone knows this is a honourable game and should not be needed.

So no getting to 49 ships and accidentally building 20 extra ships.
No gifting fuel less ships to your enemy where they cannot use them.
No leaving ships sitting in web minefields for too long (you have to leave them long enough to bait rescue ships). But not planning to tow all your opponents ships into a 10 overlapping max web mines and leaving them there for ever.

3) Abandon ship (to cover if rule 2 or rule 1 is compromised)
To cover any situations where a player cannot get to his ships an option to remove them from their ship list but this takes 3 turns and everyone knows about it and the ships are "ghost ships" that must be handed to anyone who can get to them.

I know I have over though rules 2 and 3 and they may never be needed but I want to have them their so everyone knows what happens if these situations occur (I tend to over think too many things!).

And the fourth rule is just that this game has Die Hard principles where you fight to the end (or a replacement will be found). But this is not an official DH game so this will not count to the DH ladder etc.

See the top of this forum for more info on the 4 rules.
760 days, 12 hours, 50 minutes ago
View whisperer's profile
whisperer
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
> if Joshua can set this up as a host setting it will prevent the need for all these rules

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/5579406-implement-the-proposed-nu-pls-planets-limit-shi
756 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Only 3 more to start the game.
754 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Any Lizard, Rebel and Colony players want to experience a game where you have a set ship slot to play with depending on you planet number (or a minimum of 50).

You chose what ships you want up to your limit.

If you lose a ship you can instantly replace it (if you have a SB and minerals and MC).

If you are the on offensive you can convert your freighters into combat ships.

If you are in a lull in fighting those freighters can be rebuilt to continue the mineral movement.

Your early game ships can be recycled and replaced with better weapons and you don't have to be the Feds!

The game where if you opponents build 50 warp 1 SDSF's and it has no effect on you.

The game where you can use Merlins as mineral producers and not late game PBP stores.

752 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes ago
Profile Image
martinr
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
Only need a Rebel and Colonies player now.
747 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes ago
View robpac's profile
robpac
RE: PLS 50 Campaign 11 player game. As the PLS 50 x2 Team...Write Reply
bump - Rebel player needed to get this going, anyone interested?