replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games.

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1781 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes ago
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anaconda
replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games.
1781 days, 18 hours, 5 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
due to sad happenstance—what ever it was—Jodan, a trusted friend of DIE HARD series dropped from four DH-games last night. He even got couple of very strong positions. Hope he is well, though.



the games in need of replacement players are:



DIE HARD low natives 1
Jodan was Rebel, and fighting to win I believe
Host BB
—————
DIE HARD low natives 2
As Crystal, here Jodan is not doing that well, according to public data. On the other hand, game might be ending soon. The winning alliance has 219 planets already.
Host BB
—————
DIE HARD 9
Jodan was Crystal and had a strong position to score up if played well. The game is ending sooner rather than later, but i doubt he can be among the best 2.
Host Anaconda
—————
DIE HARD 11
This game is really Die Hard! 65 turns without any1 disappearing. Now Jodan unfortunately broke the charm. He seems to have had decent position as Colonies.
Host Anaconda



All these games would be great opportunity for serious players to get know DIE HARD series and players.

Post here if you are interested!

1781 days, 2 hours, 19 minutes ago
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tanaka
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Not sure if I have the skill required for DIE HARD, but... if nobody else steps up to the plate, I guess I could take over one of the positions.
1781 days, 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
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arcanix
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
If no one REALLY wants DH ln 2 I can help finish that game out by playing the dying crystals.
1781 days, 2 hours, 2 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
you are very welcome if you understand the DIE HARD rules, not to drop off under any circumstances? Maybe you want to try out something that would end soon and would not place pressure on you? Like low natives 2
1781 days, 2 hours, 1 minutes ago
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arcanix
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Sorry didn't get this reply on time. If Tanaka wants low pressure DH ln2 that is fine. :)
1781 days, 1 hours, 48 minutes ago
View ethryll's profile
ethryll
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
I will take DH 9 if no one else wants it.

1781 days, 1 hours, 39 minutes ago
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arcanix
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
@Ethryll: Ahh brave man :).... err umm I probably should say, "We welcome you with open arms".
1781 days, 1 hours, 38 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
ok, ethryll, sold to you!
1781 days, 1 hours, 33 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Eth, you should have the link in a pm.
1781 days, 1 hours, 16 minutes ago
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dotman
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Anaconda,

I'd take one as a good faith payment to get me back into the next DH series, after my drops several months ago. Any of the positions would be fine with me, if you and the other players are willing.
1781 days, 1 hours, 6 minutes ago
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mechnomaniac
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
i took the best of the bunch....
1781 days, 0 hours, 48 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
it just might happen you wont win :P
1781 days, 0 hours, 43 minutes ago
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mechnomaniac
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
too soon to tell, i was a VERY neglected position, next few turns will say a lot
1780 days, 23 hours, 36 minutes ago
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tanaka
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Thanks, Arcanix!

I'm up for DH ln 2, presuming it hasn't already been taken.
1780 days, 13 hours, 37 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Dotman, i personally appreciate that offer but first i do not call the shots it is grand master Big Beefer who does, and secondly, what your offering is in fudamental conflict with the whole idea of having black list. black list is not to punish those who leave, but it is to uphold standards for those who do not leave.

if we allow one player back, why we do not allow others back (not a question but a simple statement). and if we allow others back, there wont be need for any separation between players who did play to the end who did not. and if we lose this separation, DH series is just bunch of games hosted by player(s). the next step? decline. so, in short, every1 of us have excuses, most of us even a legi one but like i said, this black listing is for those who do not pull that card but suck it and wanna play with others like them.
1780 days, 10 hours, 49 minutes ago
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arcanix
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
@Dotman: I would vote not to give you a second chance because one of the listed replacement games is DH9 which you had dropped (without an excuse or replacement) back at turn 31 and it now has been through 4 different owners.

The ramifications of that choice you made back then was that Privateers, Cyborg, Lizards and EE have all had to redo negotiations for every replacement and the outcomes have varied. The game has played out very differently due to that drop and probably dragged on longer.

This is my opinion from a personal perspective, but I felt like it is a good object lesson for others that are considering DH style of games.

As far as the spirit of DH games go, I also agree with Anaconda that the blacklist is there for a reason but if @Big+Beefer decided to make a "path to redemption" then that is another matter entirely.
1780 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Speaking as a non-DH player, Dotman does rock.
1780 days, 10 hours, 15 minutes ago
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scotty2beam
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
As Cyborg (dying) in DH9, I have to agree with Arcanix. The reason I play these games is to avoid having players drop and face the ramifications I've been dealing with since your sudden departure. It is of course not my decision but it may alter my support of DH games if we do not enforce the rule that is emphasized in CAPS in the introduction of this game platform. Also your similar actions in DH8 really screwed up that game, and in spite of it being to my advantage it still resonates with me.
1780 days, 10 hours, 10 minutes ago
View j-zan's profile
j-zan
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
I'm agnostic about Dotman's specific case....


....but as a DH player, I'd like to think that we could offer a path of redemption. And I don't think such would defeat the purpose of the "Blacklist."

If a DH player faces legitimate issues and notifies BB/Anaconda/Host of a drop, etc... and wants to work back into "DH Good Standing"; that's fine by me. The blacklist would still be populated by people who drop for a) poor reasons or b) fail to reestablish their DH credential.

Just my $.02
1780 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
to Gnerphk and to others alike...

this is not a matter where we vote. for me he is a closest thing to rock star here, far above Emork, Thin or Mentar.

but my personal policy here and in IRL too is not to favor people i like over people i do not like or i do not know. i personally have been victim and suffered because of nepotism and unjustified favoring more than twice, and i am very strict with this policy of mine.

anyway, every one of us knows and should know what they sign up for. if they do not care to figure out and sign up anyways, there is a lesson here to be learned before something happens (like what happened to Stan in episode HUMAMCENTiPAD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HumancentiPad )

however, i do not make these policy decisions.

the problem with redemption is everyone can then start bullshitting legi excuses. how the hell i am gonna figure out if you suddenly turned into homosexual causing a mental trauma or if your child died because of an organ transplant failure. while these things definitely might cause disconnection with the game, and one still would like to play after getting his life together in six months or so, every one can come up with ideas like these.

so, what that means is black list would become obsolete, meaning every one arrogant enough could come and go as they please. and if anyone can come and go as they please---well that's called classic public game offered by site by default. why i bother hosting a game, and posting for replacements for example, if it does not make difference for the game and for those other players who are sitting it through?

if you wanna keep up your green status, and you need to leave, you look up for your own replacement and drop a line for other players. if you are in the middle of hot pursuit chased down by North Korea military intelligence, at least have decency to drop a line and we the hosts will figure it out. and if you can't even do that, then you can't. in life there are doors that are closed for good. that is just how it is.

But this is more BB's problem than mine.

1780 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes ago
View j-zan's profile
j-zan
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Anaconda, Relax. I don't think anyone was voicing that this thing is (or should be) democratic.

I think we're just saying that we'd be happy if BB created a "path to redemption." For my part, I would hope that it involves more than just the providing of an excuse.... but that's secondary.
1780 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
i am relaxed. i am only trying to highlight the issue here. few bullet:

- black list is not to punish players. it is to create a list of players who actually can be relied to certain extent to play the game. that's why black list is not for those in the black list but it is for all of those WHO ARE NOT on it.

- accepting "explanation based redemption" would encourage lying (sadder the story, greater the redemption). i personally would rather favor offering redemption to people who do not lie. but then again, if any explanation would do, what is the point of keeping the black list. it is very simple.

- i would hate to offer redemption to other people and not to others. that is injustice in my book.

- also, the whole redemption concept--ofc depending what it is--would be very disrespectful for those who sit the game through avoiding the black list.
1780 days, 9 hours, 8 minutes ago
View j-zan's profile
j-zan
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
/shrug. Last message seemed tense? Silly words not conveying mood very well.... Obviously we both think it's BB's call.

-I would say that the blacklist is for those who are NOT on it; but also for those who ARE on it. The two work together... it's for those who are NOT on it to feel confident about the game you're playing. But it's also for those who ARE on it to be excluded. You can't have one facet without the other, 2 sides of the coin, and all that. (See Below)

-I would like to believe that any redemption would be based on MORE than explanation. Sounds like you agree.

-Agreed, a possible redemption path should be open to anyone who feels the need to aim for redemption.

-I think it's pushing it to call a redemption concept "very disrespectful" to others (ofc, depending on what it is.) But this is the reason I voiced my opinion above. I'm not on the black list - and I don't see redemption as disrespectful.


-------


My biggest reason that I think "Redemption Path" makes sense is the pure SIZE of the DH Series. When BB started taking players, he received a pretty massive interest from the community. I'd say it's still a pretty large pool of players if we just go by the DH rankings. With that large of a pool, I think it's harder to conceive of the DH Rankings as a "small list of players who meet an exact criteria." The truth is, DH has droppers just like public games. And the "black list" is the penalty for dropping in DH. It NEEDS to be there.

But as the games started to fill, some players were accepted some with a sketchy history. Some of those folks are amazing and haven't dropped DH games. Others have lived up to their past. And of course, some folks who had a great history have dropped as well. But accepting a player with a poor history is already a sort of "redemption." (Yes, they hadn't agreed in that bad public history not to drop explicitly.... but....) it opens the doors, in my mind.

---

Anyway.....
1780 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes ago
View j-zan's profile
j-zan
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
There is room for Replacements in the DH Series Folks!

Get a "Good Guy" Award on the DH Rankings!

Join us!
1780 days, 8 hours, 25 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
this

"-I would like to believe that any redemption would be based on MORE than explanation. Sounds like you agree."

and this

"But accepting a player with a poor history is already a sort of "redemption." (Yes, they hadn't agreed in that bad public history not to drop explicitly.... but....) it opens the doors, in my mind."

We agree on the redemption part. I believe in an idea of people being allowed to correct themselves, too. that is why i have accepted people with some tricky history to play in DH series.

I do not agree with the notion that people who sign up for something and deliberately break their commitment would be treated the same way as those who did not. I am too human for that. If they drop because of force major; there is redemption. you contact the players and host, and look up for your own replacement. this is redemption number one.

there is also redemption number two. contact the host (and maybe the players) but you drop before the sub is found. use only under extreme circumstance.

and there is even redemption number three. if you cant contact the host when you drop, contact him in the first situation possible. this might not lead to anything but it at least is decent behavior and could offer redemption. that would be decent, and respectful if nuthing else.

all these three __already__ favor those with better social engineering skills over those who lack them (and for example those whose mother tongue is English), and because of that i am leery accepting any explanation as excuse for redemption. but, as stated above the redemption exists even already.

everything else would be extending the concept of playing in die hard game and watering the whole purpose of hosting the series so much the games would lack the original purpose and appeal: having a lot of trusted players who are expected to see it through.

any other redemption, for example providing pink slip of neurosurgery or a bank testimony you got bankrupted and ended up homeless over night for example would be simply too much to ask, and even if someone would be willing to provide them i would not want to see them. would be too much trouble for me for various reasons.

"I think it's pushing it to call a redemption concept "very disrespectful" to others (ofc, depending on what it is.) But this is the reason I voiced my opinion above. I'm not on the black list - and I don't see redemption as disrespectful."

Well, if people are forgiven dropping from a game where they did sign up for not to drop off, what is the purpose of having these games?

and, i am also playing in a die hard game, not only hosting them. and i, for example, feel it (very) disrespectful for those who are seeing the game through as signed up, if people would be allowed to escape with a drop.

1780 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
this

"because of that i am leery accepting any explanation as excuse for redemption."

might be written wrong.

maybe it should go like this:

"because of that i am leery accepting any explanation as an excuse in exchange for redemption."

..or not.
1780 days, 7 hours, 34 minutes ago
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dtolman
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
What games need replacements still?
1780 days, 7 hours, 26 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
if guy called Tanaka takes over Low Natives, then the only one needing replacement is DIE HARD 11, as colonies. decent position, assumption based on public data.
1780 days, 7 hours, 7 minutes ago
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tanaka
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
I take it that means I'm free to go ahead and assume command in DH ln 2?
1780 days, 7 hours, 1 minutes ago
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anaconda
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
you might need a password from Big Beefer?
1780 days, 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
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dotman
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
No worries, I respect everyone's position on the DH games. Just thought I'd throw it out there; decent replacement positions can be tough to find. Wish you all the best of luck!
1780 days, 3 hours, 33 minutes ago
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ra
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Personally, having invested a lot of time so far, I would prefer to wait for a quality player rather than quickly continue with a potential dropper. There are other games in the mean time, even if it takes a long time to fill the replacement position.
1780 days, 3 hours, 24 minutes ago
View big beefer's profile
big beefer
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
@Tanaka - Yes, please go ahead and pick up the LN 2 spot.

To all of our replacements, if you need a little more time to get settled in, sort out the diplomacy, etc., just send the game host a PM to let them know and the can delay the host some so you can catch up. I know it takes quite an effort to pick up a previously played position, figure out what was going on, and what you want to do with it.

@Dotman - The short version is this: If you're reasonably sure whatever life events forced you to drop before before won't happen again, I'd say go ahead and pick up the DH 11 spot.

The long version:

As far as a "road to redemption", it's something I'd been thinking of for awhile, but no one had ever asked to rejoin after dropping, so it's never come up. My plan was that players who have dropped games without notifying the host (the one's we black list for) can earn their way back into good standing by serving as a replacement player, with 50 turns cancelling out 1 dropped position. But these players won't be able to join newly forming DH games until they've payed their debt, so to speak.

Now I do think Anaconda's concerns are very legitimate, and I don't want players thinking that because they can get back in later, it's ok to drop. I'm thinking that this system will be OK because:

- The time frame involved is large: To exploit this, you have to drop, then disappear from the site long enough we're convinced you had a real life issue, then come back and play 50 turns as a replacement, which at DIE HARD speed as we know it is about a 6 month commitment in itself. In Dotman's case he'd be looking at about a year's worth of playing replacement positions to offset the 2 games he left before I'd let him join new games.

- The opportunities for redemption are few: We still have relatively few drops, and they tend to fill quickly, so a replacement position is not something you can count on finding whenever you want.

A couple of other details:

- Players cannot use replacement turns already played to offset future drops. As much as I appreciate all the time our replacements put in to maintain the quality of our games, I don't want anyone thinking it's OK to drop because they've already "served their time".

- The gates to the road of redemption open only once. Basically, we understand life things come up and take precedence over this game, and there are situations that might force you to drop without notifying us. We're willing to forgive you if this happens once. Hell, I might even let it go if it happens like once every 5 years. But in general, if anyone were to become a repeat offender, I'd consider them permanently blacklisted. Not to be harsh, but they should probably just own up to the fact that their life isn't a stable enough situation to commit to a long term gaming venture such as this.

So that's the essence of the redemption plan I'd been thinking about, and I think we could apply it here. Honestly, if someone really wanted back into our games, it would be much easier to just make a new account. So I'd like to offer one more chance for those who are willing to step up and take responsibility.
1780 days, 1 hours, 17 minutes ago
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mechnomaniac
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
@RA.....you got one ;)
1779 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes ago
View capt chaos's profile
capt chaos
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Any slots left open? I could use a tenacity boost. I liked that being Number One for about a month.
:)

OR, what's the next game starting? As you can see, I am pretty much Die Hard Only now.

I know I am not registered anymore, and do not wish to discuss that at all at this time, but I realize that may be an issue for some players. Suffice it to say when conditions change I will register again.

So. Is there a spot fore me anywhere?
1779 days, 16 hours, 42 minutes ago
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dotman
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
@Big Beefer: I have taken the DH11 slot. Thanks!
1779 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes ago
View j-zan's profile
j-zan
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
@Big Beefer, That sounds like a fantastically reasonable "path to redemption." Thanks for the thoughtfulness.
1779 days, 10 hours, 16 minutes ago
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john88
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
After being burned by a player in the now infamous DH8 I think I have a right to post on this thread. So here goes :)

We ALL have real life issues that can, and sometimes do, force us to abandon games. And after the issues that FORCED us to leave for a period clear up we
would hoped to be welcomed back.

So now we have a player who due to RL issued dropped out of 2 DH games and has
returned. With just those facts I would say no problem

However there are other facts that should be considered when deciding if a player
is going to play within the spirit that the other DGH players are expecting.

An ally missing multiple turns with no communication is almost as bad as having them quit. Dotman's missed turns are above 20%.

then there is this
---
Gothos Sector - Gothos Sector
A DAY AGO • LINK • TURN 30 • LIKE
dotman has been dropped from The Fascist Empire after missing three turns.
---

And now I have this player, who was an ally that quit DH8, back in another DH game I am playing.

John88
1779 days, 9 hours, 15 minutes ago
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dotman
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
I'll note that you intended to backstab me in that DH8, for what that's worth :-)

As far as missed turn %, it's meaningless, for two reasons:

1) You get dinged if you don't hit end turn, whether you issued commands or not. I regularly issue commands, and leave the turn open for possible modifications based on diplomatic messages received.

2) (This is the big one) You get dinged for missed turns in private games, but do not get credit for turns played in them. I have countless missed turns in private test games from developing my plugin. I'm surprised the % isn't higher.

Gothos sector is my business and irrelevant here, as it's not DH.
1779 days, 9 hours, 2 minutes ago
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john88
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
You call me a backstabber in public?

I had to shift my plans after it realized that I had joined forces with a player who missed turns, not just in private but in DH8, and did not know how to use his words to communicate.

Turns out that decision was the right thing for me to do. As you quit and I was able to finish 3rd.

I would also point out that even after the Priv race was abandoned I played within the spirit of the DH series and did not harvest all those Grav ships laying around.

John88
1779 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes ago
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ninjabunny
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Just make two lists, those who are honorable and those who are not. So next time you know.
1779 days, 8 hours, 45 minutes ago
View gnerphk's profile
gnerphk
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Simplistic, NB. I've learned that almost everyone is honorable by their own lights. Strange but true.
1779 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes ago
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dotman
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
At any rate, I don't care to make a big deal out of this; I was just offering to pick up a slot. If there's another player, and I'm not wanted, I'll bow out. There's plenty of games to play.

I will say the position in DH11 isn't all that great (def. worse than it appears on paper, as it were), but I'm willing to give (and currently, am giving) it a go.
1779 days, 7 hours, 30 minutes ago
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mule
RE: replacements needed for 4 DIE HARD games. Write Reply
Dotman, If you are just going for Good Guy points you are welcome to my spot in DIE HARD 6. You'll be bored to death and have nowhere to go but up, but John88 isn't in that game and I doubt if anyone else would complain.

Let me know. There are a couple things you would have to know in advance.