Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

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792 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes ago

griffin

Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience with the Sapphire giving web immunity to grav accel ships without using towing? Will a grav accel ship set to warp 9 and a sapphire set to warp 9 with the same waypoint get immunity?

792 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes ago

poweron

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Sappire's are the most evil ships around! KILL MAIM DESTROY! (as i experienced as a chrystal player) it makes the Crystals main (and only) ability useless.

sorry got a bit carried away....dont know your answer........

792 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes ago

poweron

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Sappire's are the most evil ships around! KILL MAIM DESTROY! (as i experienced as a chrystal player) it makes the Crystals main (and only) ability useless.

sorry got a bit carried away....dont know your question :)

792 days, 16 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

I've read it several times, and used a sapphire in action- admittedly not with a gravitronic ship.

However I overcharged warp 7 capable sapphire with a warp nine fleet and it worked just fine.

I assume as long as you meet the criteria;
same start point, same end point, same speed you are covered.

792 days, 9 hours, 49 minutes ago

glyns alternate

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Griffin: I will test this for you in a bit... I would guess that it doesn't, but who knows.

792 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Griffin: So the Sapphire gives Web Immunity to all ships at start location so long as it starts with fuel (which is currently only documented in the WIKI; http://www.vgaplanets.org/index.php/Sapphire_Class_Space_Ship), doesn't matter who owns it.

So if you have the same start position, Warp Speed, and endpoint, you will receive Web Immunity, Gravitonic doesn't mess anything up.

This means you can set the Sapphire to move (or Tow) to an endpoint that it cannot reach in one Turn, but a Gravitonic ship can... thus allowing up to ~81ly of Web Immune travel farther than the Sapphire actually moves!

So congrats Griffin, you have discovered a new tactic... what would you like to call it? Gravitonic Web-Immunity Catapult?

792 days, 6 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Glyn "This means you can set the Sapphire to move (or Tow it) to an endpoint that it cannot reach in one Turn, but a Gravitonic ship can... thus allowing up to ~81ly of Web Immune travel farther than the Sapphire actually moves!"

This is confusing to me.

You have to travel with the Sapphire. It emits a zone of web immunity around it so effecting ships travelling in the same direction and speed.

It has been proved by others that if you travel form point A to point B at the same warp speed with the Sapphire you gain immunity.

It has been proved if you start at point A with a Sapphire it moves to point B and another ship to point C the other ships doesn't gain immunity as you are not travelling with it.

If you don't move at the same warp speed from point A to point B you are not travelling with the Sapphire so you don't gain immunity.

It also has been proved that you can tow a Sapphire and gain the immunity.

What has not been explained is what exactly happens when a Gravitonic ships tows it.

Say if a Gravitonic ship tows at warp 9 to a planet within 81LY, do non Gravitonic ships gain the immunity as they are travelling "Warp 9" but not going at the same speed.

I would expect the ships travelling without Gravtonic speeds would not be immune.

So if a Sapphire is towed by a Gravitonic at 162 LY and also gives its protection to other Gravitonics this does not give it any special abilities.

792 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Martinr: "I would expect the ships travelling without Gravtonic speeds would not be immune."

So did I, "Glyn: I would guess that it doesn't"... but my guess was wrong.

The only question I have now is if BB/Joshua will change this so the... 'Griffin Catapult' doesn't work anymore.

792 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

But are you also saying Gravitonic ships travelling from point A to Point C when accompanied by a Sapphire which stops at point B also gains the immunity from point B to C? So to Sapphire moves 81 LY in a web mine and a MCBR moves 162?

792 days, 5 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Martinr: Yes, but I don't see how that wasn't clear when I said; "Glyn: This means you can set the Sapphire to move (or Tow it) to an endpoint that it cannot reach in one Turn, but a Gravitonic ship can... thus allowing up to ~81ly of Web Immune travel farther than the Sapphire actually moves!"

792 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Wasn't clear to me. Maybe if anyone else can like this post to indicate they were confused as well. If no likes then I am the only one.

But it also gives more posts so @BB may spot and fix the problem if he was confused as well.

792 days, 4 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Martinr: Fix? FIX?! Funny how in one thread there are those who don't want to change Documentation to reflect reality because if conflicts with information provided years ago... and here you want to change the game because if conflicts with the information provided years ago (and also doesn't conflict as it states all you need is matching start, speed, and endpoint).

I say, update the Documentation to reflect the reality of the game, and let the company decide if they want to change it.

792 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Here is the Sector I used for testing if anyone wants to check it out and run a few tests themselves; http://play.planets.nu/#/sector/225622

791 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes ago

griffin

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Ok, so I think my question didn't get answered. I don't care (at this moment) if a Sapphire grants immunity to a Grav ship if it tows it. (Though I assume it does per docs). What I want to know is if a Sapphire grants immunity to a grav ship if both move under their own power, from and to the same destination within 81lys.

791 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Griffin: Oh it did.

"Glyn: This means you can set the Sapphire to move (or Tow it) to an endpoint that it cannot reach in one Turn, but a Gravitonic ship can... thus allowing up to ~81ly of Web Immune travel farther than the Sapphire actually moves!"
__

@Martinr: Touche.

791 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes ago

griffin

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

I don't care about distances greater than 81 lys.

791 days, 22 hours, 0 minutes ago

glyns alternate

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Griffin: ... "Glyn: allowing up to ~81ly of Web Immune travel farther than the Sapphire actually moves!"

791 days, 21 hours, 56 minutes ago

griffin

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Perhaps I don't understand your sentence. Please restate in a different way.

791 days, 21 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Griffin: Also... "Glyn: @Griffin: So if you have the same start position, Warp Speed, and end destination waypoint, you will receive Web Immunity, Gravitonic doesn't mess anything up."

So your question was answered TWICE.

791 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Griffin, Glyn is indicating that currently the host program only checks if you are at the same position as the Sapphire and travelling to the same destination at the same warp. It ignores if the ship is moving a warp x2 speed.

So the host checks those conditions and gives all ships an immunity to web mines flag as all ships move separately and this should indicate all ships going through the same hex as the Sapphire at the same point of the turn.

BUT it does not check for Gravitonic ships being involved.

So if a Gravitonic tows a Sapphire to a set point it gains web mine immunity. All Gravitonics travelling with the Sapphire get immunity AND all non Gravitonics travelling the same warp but half the distance get the immunity even though they do not occupy the same hex at the same point of the turn..

The reverse is true. A Sapphire moving at warp 9 in the same direction as Gravitronics give the Gravitronics immunity for 162LY even though they do not actually do not travel with the Sapphire. So they get a free 81LY of immunity.

Also from this Glyn implies you should get immunity for the Grav ship if you move to the same destination at the same warp but not the same speed.

This is until Admin spot this feature and decide to change it.

Other questions would be:

If the Sapphire travels Warp 9 directly North for 80LY and other ships start in the same position travel North 81LY do they hit a web mine in the 80LY they travel in the same direction? They will be effectively travelling 80LY in the same hex as the Sapphire at the same time.

If a Sapphire hits multiple mines and is destroyed should all ships still get web immunity for the distance travelled beyond the destruction of the Sapphire?

790 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

@Martinr,

> If the Sapphire travels Warp 9 directly North for 80LY and other ships start in the same position travel North 81LY do they hit a web mine in the 80LY they travel in the same direction?

The requirements are "same start point, endpoint and speed, or must be towing it". Based on this, the ships travelling 81 LY would be completely unprotected.

WRT Gravitonic vs. normal engines, the endpoints of the travel still have to be the same. On the long jump (> ~81.5, <= 162.5) with Sapphire being towed, the normal engine ships would only be protected for the first half of the trip, as they don't start the second have with a Sapphire. On a long jump with the Sapphire travelling independently, the Gravitonic ships would be subject to web drain the next turn.

790 days, 22 hours, 12 minutes ago

griffin

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Ok, so I'm hearing all the theory, but what has been tested?

It sounds like my original question has been answered but has brought new questions to the front.

As I read it, only ships going to the same destination as the Sapphire should gain immunity. If it's going 162 lys, ships only going half that should have NO immunity at all. And if it's going 81 lys, ships going past that gain NO immunity at all.

Another question I'm curious about, if you have two and are traveling from one to another, do you gain immunity?

790 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

http://play.planets.nu/#/sector/225622

Look over Glyn's game. Join as the Privateers.

It explains what happens.

Ships at the start of the turn that have the same destination, heading in the same direction and the same warp they are immune to web drain.

No matter if the ship has gravitonic engines or not. Or if the ship is towed by a gravitonic or not.

It does not go with the theory of the Sapphire "travelling with it".

But it is flagged as immune to webs if have the same destination, heading in the same direction and the same warp.

Ships don't really travel at the same time. They all move in id order one after another (unless towed). This method of flagging ships to find if they travel the same flight path at the same time of the turn is flawed if a gravitonic is involved.

790 days, 18 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

What I also learned is the difference between Towing and Normal movement doesn't matter... which implies ShipID# order of movement also doesn't matter.

- This seems to imply a Sapphire or the ship Towing it could hit regular mines and be destroyed (or have waypoint distance reduced 10ly if less than Tech 7 Hull), and other ships would still receive Web Immunity for that Turn beyond the distance the Sapphire moved.

Which is why I'm not quite ready to report this as a bug because I'm curious is other things also would violate the "travelling with" aspect.

- Such as an Ion Storm pushing the Sapphire but not the other ships setup to receive Web Immunity.

- Unknown what effect Command Ship movement has.

- I believe Intercept mission doesn't work, but that is most likely because you haven't set the correct end waypoint... but possibly if the Sapphire moves during Command Ship movement it will then have the correct waypoint when Intercept phase rolls around, really depends on how it was programmed.

Hmmmm... possibly all these unexplored options it would make more sense to turn it over to Admins as Martinr has suggested rather than expend effort researching all of this if they are going to change it to fit the "travelling with" narrative.

@Martinr: I'm ok with people having an extra advantage against Crystals, so your call, report it via CONTACT form if you so desire, make sure to link to this thread.

@Griffin: Thank you for bringing up this intriguing quirk, it's been awhile since I've had something neat to research.

790 days, 17 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Sapphire and Grav Accel ships: Does anyone have experience...

Actually... I didn't test if a ship Towing another ship and a Sapphire moving under own power transfers the Web Immunity to the Towing ship. Just that a Ship Towing a Sapphire and others moving under own power also receive Web Immunity.