Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

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1200 days, 23 hours, 53 minutes ago

Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Tactic question:

You know where an FCC is, you have a couple Glory ships within striking distance.

If you send them in, set on 'pop' and run them out of fuel on arrival, what happens? If ships chunnel in, clearly you hammer them.

The question is if he chunnels away.

Since you ran out of fuel, is warp set to 0 and your Glory goes along for the ride? Cuz that would ROCK.

Or would the FCC chunnel away before warp is reset, wasting all of that Glory? That would be so sad...

1200 days, 23 hours, 37 minutes ago

challengespaceyard

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

AFAIK, your 'pop' detonation will occur BEFORE the chunnel step. None of the tactics you mention would work.

Still, if you destroy the FCC this way, then it does not participate in the chunnel step: neither to initiate nor to receive.

1200 days, 23 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

There actually is a method for doing this, but it won't use POP, but instead TRG combined with a sacrificial frenemy cloaker. It is almost impossible to manage except as a backstab, but it's glorious when it does go off.

1200 days, 23 hours, 10 minutes ago

challengespaceyard

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Even then, it is extremely difficult to pull off those TRG tactics because it pretty much requires multiple cloakers staged on the "friend"'s end.

It does not help that Glory Devices will decloak ships regardless of the 'Damage to prevent cloaking' setting.

1200 days, 22 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Oh, it's nearly impossible to manage. I've set it up exactly once and then we had second thoughts about the backstab; the guy didn't deserve it. And that was a long long time ago.

I've heard from one guy that played Bird in Classic, and his thing was sifting Swifts in among the Fireclouds. It seemed pretty foolish to me since they were all but guaranteed to run out of fuel, but he made it work. Got a serious knowledge of the Borg and did a number on his freighters all at once. Intercept attacks.

And that scenario, awful though it is, is the best way I've figured to use the TRG to send poppers through a Chunnel. It would be awesome, but without a deliberate orchestration and backstab, it's next to impossible against a Cyborg.

1200 days, 22 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

...What would we call this hypothetical attack? "Popcutus"?

1200 days, 18 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Sorry, @TomPrime; just now realized how far afield my response got. With regard to your original post, CSY is right on the money.

It does raise some interesting speculation about a potential modification of POP timing. The coding wouldn't be too terribly hard, I think... but would it unbalance too heavily in favor of the Fascists?

1200 days, 4 hours, 41 minutes ago

challengespaceyard

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Indeed, it could tilt the balance too far in favor of the Fascists. It is powerful enough that 2X Faster Beams has become standard issue for Fascist officers, raising base advantage value from 395 to 455.

1200 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Considering the side-effects of fast beams, I think it's overpriced. But that's just me.

1200 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes ago

ace rimmer

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

@Gnerphk

Well seeing that you favor the Carrier races it's no surprise you dislike the "side effects" of fast beams. LOL

Side Effects
1. Fascists are more dangerous
2. Carriers lose more fighters
3. Fascists are no longer a late game dormat to Colonies and EE.

:P

Ace

1200 days, 4 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

I'm referring to the relative uselessness of Fascist full starbases against heavy carriers. In the PQ system, it's rather painful.

I wouldn't say I favor the carrier races. I play what's straightforward or where there's a puzzle, which right now includes Fascists and Crystals.

1200 days, 2 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

@Tomprime

This tactic to use glory ships to destroy crossroads of the borg chunnel network is possible if you would be able to control a stargate. It is of course only hypothetical case, but with the SG you could send foreign cloaker (prefered swifts) throught the SG to meet your warp0 and TRG encoded glory ships. Since any SG passage count as chunnel event you would be able to stack the glory effect with this.

1199 days, 23 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Ahem.
You realize you're all contemplating the most useless way to use pop ships ever?
At best you could set off 1 trg ship. Sacrificing a cloaker in the process.
See, trg happens by ID. Once a trg takes place in any given location no more trg will happen since any cloaked ships will no longer be cloaked.
So at best you'll mildly damage your enemy.

1199 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

"Siggi: You realize you're all contemplating the most useless way to use pop ships ever?"

Don't you try to use so many Glory Devices that all ships are obliterated?

1199 days, 22 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

I do like the idea of delaying POP to a later part of Host as an option. It would be interesting as a possibility.

1199 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

@Glyn yes. Which was my point.

1199 days, 20 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

I do like the idea of delaying POP to so later on that it never actually happens... :D

1199 days, 7 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

@Siggi: Damaged ships can help delay/stunt an enemy quite a bit... and completely change the outcome of a fleet battle... I've never had to deal with stacks of Glory Devices being utilized.

I honestly don't know if your the only one doing that or how common/uncommon that practice is... I've looked at a lot of Sectors but my focus is always on Crystals so I'm pretty much in the dark about this aspect.

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1198 days, 22 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

Not the only who does it certainly. I know that much.
How common I couldn't tell.
And it's not that often I get the chance to pull it off, it takes timing, patience and a little luck.
And it's a risky thing since if you fail you lose half the glory ships with no gain. Even worse in the PQ system.
But I digress :)

The thing that was discussed is to sneak pop ships in and a frenemy cloaker to set them off by using trg.
While I agree that damaging ships can be a great delaying tactic it wouldn't even do that much. Like I said you could at most set off 1 pop ship. The objective discussed was to take out chunnel ships. But 1 pop ship is not enough to more than damage a firecloud and a firecloud can chunnel damaged anyway.
And considering the time and logistics and planning needed to pull off a stunt like that it's not worth it. Not to mention there's no delaying the Borgs anyway ;)

1198 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

So, if someone else once owned your popper, and if when it came back in to your posession, it had PE as fascist set, would it 'trg' in the presence of your own cloaker? (I am not sure what usefulness the answer to this question would be...)

1198 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

You can't set off your own poppers with your own cloakers. Otherwise trg+kill would do more harm than good: )

1198 days, 11 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

@Ted & anyone else interested:

Okay,
This is the host order regarding glory device and chunnel:
41 Glory device starships detonate
42 Firecloud chunnel
52 Glory device starships detonate

You have correctly pointed out that all POP detonations happen before the chunnel. TRG would also be triggered before the chunnel if there is a cloaker present. So the only way to detonate a glory device after the chunnel would be with TRG in a scenario where there is no enemy cloaker at the GD location before the chunnel, but where GD and enemy cloaker meet after the chunnel. And this can be done only once per location because the detonation would decloak any cloaker and hence there would be no cloaker left to trigger a second glory device. The only exception would be a scenario where a detonation happens before the chunnel, the damaged FCC still does the chunnel and a damaged GD then meets an undamaged cloaker after the chunnel, which triggers the second detonation.

So far all clear.

But I do not understand Ted’s comment:
"with the SG you could send foreign cloaker (prefered swifts) throught the SG to meet your warp0 and TRG encoded glory ships. Since any SG passage count as chunnel event you would be able to stack the glory effect with this."

I have been in a game with a stargate and so I familiarized myself with this, but I still don't see how you could use a stargate to detonate multiple glory devices. All chunnels (including those through the stargate) happen in step 42 of the host order (Or am I wrong here?), but all glory device detonations happen either before or after that phase. So there could be no glory device detonations inbetween chunnels. Or am I missing something here?

1198 days, 10 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

41 Glory device starships detonate
42 Firecloud chunnel

Starbase Primary Orders - Refuel

52 Glory device starships detonate

1198 days, 9 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Tactic question: You know where an FCC is, you have a...

"Detonations happen in ascending order, which means the glory device with the smallest ID will explode first – and after that there won’t be any other detonations if one is using only the “trg” code."

"When the first glory device goes off all cloaked ships cease to be cloaked"

http://www.planetsmagazine.com/races/klingons/klingonguides/absolution-gap-frequently-asked-questions-about-glory-devices/

This is due to the Planets Nu default setting "Damage to prevent cloaking: 1%; A starship with 1% damage or worse cannot cloak or stay cloaked."