Best Alliance Pair?

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106 days, 20 hours, 56 minutes ago

Best Alliance Pair?

Based on complimentary capabilities (CV's/FF's; Cloaking; Speed extras; Economic or Other Special Abilities; Intelligence Gathering; Ground Assault), I would propose the following as the best alliance pairs in the game.

Lizard & Evil Empire
Lizard & Colonies
Fascist & Evil Empire

Thoughts positive or negative? What about weakest pair?

106 days, 14 hours, 43 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I don't give an answer now. Just a bet that this thread will be a loooooong one :)

Btw: As with single races an alliance's strengths and weaknesses depend on the opposing races /alliances.

106 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Ok, let's go!

Deadly combination: Privateer + someone who isn't decloaked by Lokis.

Who is the best someone?

1. Fed:
+ economic problem is solved
+ you can build many ships before the limit
+ webs and normal mines can be adressed by refitted Heavy Phasers
+ Nova owns all torp races

2.Lizard
+ economic problem is solved
+ Lizard MBR survives a mine hit / popper
+ the alliance hasn't to fear losing bases by ground attacks

3.Birdman
+ Resolute as a robber with large tank
+ can tow out ships that hide in ion storms

Which two other races would you choose to best beat a Privateer/Fed alliance and how? Anyone has an answer that doesn't include the Klingons? Crystals seem helpful but I think that webs can only slow down such an alliance but not stop it in the long run.

From Tom's suggestions only Klingons&EE have a chance on the battleground. But economically it is the poorhouse of the cluster.

106 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

A Crystal/Cyborg alliance would defeat a Privateer/Fed alliance. Webs trump cloakers. Huge borg economy would provide enough web torps to overwhelm Heavy Phasers. Crystal/Borgs would be on the offense. Borg SB would be costly for Privateer/Feds to take. For every planet taken in one area with Heavy Phasers concentrated by P/F, 5-10 planets would be taken in another area by C/B.

106 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Priv/EE is deadly in the early game, I have seen many a HW taken by a quick MBR/SSD sneak attack. Plus who doesn't like speed gorbies.

106 days, 0 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

we assume they are neighbours, right?

apart from privateer + crystal or robot
- how about something exotic: fed + klingons?

105 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Hi mjs68508!

I don't think it is so easy for Borg/Crystal to avoid being robbed if they attack a Priv/Fed planet. There is a max web field radius and if you have enough beams to sweep this you are safe. It will be decisive in this matchup that the Priv/Fed is well prepared in the area that is attacked. I agree that this is a difficult task regarding the chunnel ability of the Borg/Crystal alliance.

105 days, 13 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Pirates can be extremely powerful if allowed to grow and the Fed/Pirates are a great combo.

Actually I think the Borg/Crystal ship(s) could possibly get robbed and captured after taking a Fed/Pirate planet. Especially if they did not set up their attack patiently. But there are some Crystal web tricks to help ensure that both the captured ships and the robbing ships don't get away without being drained of fuel and captured back by the Crystals. Of course, Pirates have tricks of their own.

Also, note that even one web minefield at max 150 ly would take 7.5 Novas with 10 Heavy Phaser beams each to eliminate the web minefield. Or alternately, 19 MCBRs with 4 Heavy Phaser beams each to wipe out the max web minefield. And if/when the Pirates have that many MCBRs with Heavy Phasers in one place, then perhaps it is time for the Borg to chunnel an attack fleet to another area of the galaxy.

The key for the Crystals in this instance is being able to be continuously supplied with torpedoes to continuously fill up the Crystal Emerald Battlecruisers with 510 torpedoes each to lay the web minefields -- and indeed the Borg is best suited long-term to provide both the MCs and resources necessary to build torpedoes to do so.

A fun topic to discuss the Best Alliance Pair. Many combos work very well together. I will try to gather my thoughts of who I think can best rule the galaxy....

105 days, 13 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I go with Liz / Borg as the best combo.

Liz provides the best starting ships and can aggressively defeat the first neighbours while the Borg grows and becomes unstopable. Together, they have a massive econonomy (the best in the whole universe), Lokis, Cloakers, Badass Ships, millions of Clans on every planet, the best ship for logistic purposes in the game (FCC) and a terraformer.

Worst Combo? Hmm.. hard to say. Maybe Bird & Fascist? Weak economy, medium ships... yeah maybe I'll go with them.

By the way, I think you overrate the EE intelligence skills - if you can build cloakers, you don't need them that much.

105 days, 2 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

150% damage Cubes are also an intriguing thought in the Liz / Borg scenario :)

I still maintain that the most powerful combo in the game must include the Crystals.

Crystal/Borg is deadly. The ability to chunnel in massive amounts of webs anywhere you want, that's very difficult to deal with. Web mines protect the invasion space, the Cubes steam through and kill everything in their path.

Also a huge fan of Privy / Crystal, that's a fun one for sure. MK7 MBRs in the Crystals hands.. OUCH!!

But if I must put the Crystals aside for whatever reason, we can have fun with things like:

Privy / Colonies. Aside from Webs, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to protect your ships. Yes you can have Lokies, but who cares, there aren't enough Lokis in the game to detter the Privy's, and if by some chances Lokis do become a problem then send in the 160 lyr per turn Virgos!

I know the Fascists have Glories, but I wouldn't bother stealing any Fascists ships, I'd just send in the Virgos at that point and just annihilate everything in their path.

How bout Privy / Borg? How much fun can you have with that. Chunnel out enemy ships to your wolf pack. All of a sudden your wolf pack doesn't have to be mobile anymore. You tow enemy ship to firecloud, who chunnels out to your wolf pack.

Or you can just tow the enemy ship out to your firecloud who chunnels them out to your Cubes who have the luxury of decimating your poor ship with no shields to boot :)

Feds / Privy... could be interesting, one less Loki race to worry about and Feds can refit any ship the Privy steal.

I don't like Empire, but Empire / Liz would basically almost guarantee that at least one if not two immediate neighbors don't survive 15 - 20 turns. That gives you a LOT of real estate early on in the game. Then later you have the 150% damage Gorbie to deal with.

102 days, 8 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Borg + klingon. It is the overall best alliance in the game. The past 2 turns I have blew up 18 Rex/mad losing - a pop ship and 2 cubes. Real game, real players no bull. Absolutely glorious. On the defensive to boot!
Push comes to shove, the borg+klingons come knocking for a planet and they're going to take it. There's jack all anyone can do about it, delay them, yes, with webs and mines and whatever shenanigans but stop them? Not going to happen.

There are many good alliances but all things weighed against each other it's the best.

102 days, 6 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Don't underestimate webs! They can be a nightmare. Good luck coordinating pop ship maneuvers when Webs can basically spread your fleet apart.

Now granted, Chunnel is probably the most effective method of dealing with Webs, no arguing that, but you'd also have to consider the Crystal ally and whom that might be.

102 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

For casual play I definitely agree webs can be a pain but there's a way to never have your fleet spread apart as the borg against the crystals but we'll just ignore that tidbit for today. I haven't used it in any of my games on Nu so don't bother looking. ;)

What ally were you envisioning? You get your pick - cloaker or big ships, either way - check and mate.
Crystals are a great race, don't get me wrong, they look poised to win the championship match by my reckoning. Borg is their counter race and their webs are simply not up to the task.

102 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

It would have to be some type of cloaker race.

Probably Privy's. The goal would be to draw in the attack and then surround the enemy forces with webs. Once the enemy fleet is burried in webs, you go for the firclouds and take them out.

The point is to make the advance painfully slow, and the Crystals can certainly do that no matter what. You can build a wall of interlocking webs, small ones, that are easy to sweep, but you have to go 1 at a time, and anytime you sweep one another one comes up right next to it.

Its a war of attrition, basically waiting for a mistake to be made. Any opportunity that comes up to take out a Firecloud with cloak intercept is then taken.

102 days, 5 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

That is standard good crystal strategy, with or without the ally.
I will simply move it in a straight line towing a cube filled with fuel. I put X kt of fuel on the firecloud and advance. That firecloud, after it hits the webs becomes a target for another firecloud with whatever I want to bring along. I utilize my stronger economy to counter-mine with a high pressure large area field to snag your web layers and force you to sweep. I will inexorably reach my goal, I divide your forces attacking from multiple directions, it ends, you perish.

Nothing is impossible in this game, you can potentially beat the above scenario, it's just very very hard to actually do.

102 days, 4 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I feel like the only way to keep your Fireclouds safe is to make sure they never have fuel at the end of a turn, which to me sounds very difficult to do when you don't know exactly how far you'll be traveling before you hit a web.

I would try to drop a web in your path and cloak intercept the firecloud(s) in the same turn.

I ASSUME that a pop ship with "trg" set would not explode in that scenario since the ship is not really cloaked anymore.

It seems to me as if a more viable strategy from your end would be to tow your fueless fireclouds around rather than have the Fireclouds do the towing.

But then if you stand still to receive a chunnel, then that is very dangerous, unless you do have a "trg" ship sitting there as well, which obviously also becomes a prime cloak intercept target.

Tow chunnel would probably be more effective, but either way, at least one firecloud will be exposed to cloak intercept.

It would be costly for sure, I'd have to drop regular minefields as well to ensure clear passage for the cloakers to do their business.

Then of course you have the situation where you have to eventually hit a planet, at which point you could lose a number of ships. A wolf pack is not even necessary, one MBR can peel off a cube or something valuable to a web pack 160 lyrs away.

Once the Privy's have some cubes in their posession, things change dramatically, and yes I understand the value of the Borg's ability to attack form different locations, but at the same time, those Fireclouds are still very succeptible to cloak intercepts, and when you are in danger from 1602lyrs away as opposed to just 81, it should be a bit tougher to advance like you plan.

Either way, would be a fun battle, would be a LOOOOOONG battle if fought well by both sides.

101 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

from the shiplist i'd go for borg-crystal. the borg would need more merlins than average though

101 days, 22 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I would agree with a previous player. Your alliance is as strong as allied communication, the knowledge of your races and the enemies knowledge of their races as well as your race. That is where the key is.
With that said, as a Lizard player, i'm not afraid of races with good economies, I will out produce them. I'm not afraid of races with big ships, you can eventually take them. I'm not afraid of cloaking races, you can out maneuver them. I am afraid of one thing... webs ;-) And let's face it, no matter how big a Lizard gets, he still only build weak Lizard ships, lol.
I just finished a game where I allied with the Borgs, and it worked out great. Of course you need to prop up the borgs at first and protect them. So, you would need to be near him before he builds up. You even need to give him planets and refinery ships. BUT, once they build their first two dozen FCC's and a few Biocides, then they are golden. They can bring your ships up from the back, supply you with clans and given a 150% damage Bio, you can take alot.
But what about those dang webs? I wouldn't pair with the Crystals because they have nothing to offer for the end game. You can have a frontal assault and sweep with 30-40 heavy phasers, but the key to any lizard is to pop around at the flanks and destroy the economy. Some players/races recover faster then others. But while they are gathering in one place, you hit another. And whenever you can pop back home and gather up another 1000 M7 torps, that's handy for laying minefields.
I choose Lizard/Borg. Otherwise I have to kill the Borgs quickly ;-) All other races are good as well if used right and this combo will fall if ganged up on before the mid game, so you need to give concessions. But if they make it through the mid game, if they don't win, it will be very difficult to root them out as you advance on them.
But, I still hate webs!!!!!!

101 days, 21 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

BTW, there is no weak pair. When you think that, dig your own grave. If a duo plans and works well together, they will be formidable. "shiver" I'm scared even thinking about it....

101 days, 6 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Really the Borg just need someone to give them some help at the very beginning.

You don't even really have to be that close to eachother, how long would it take for the Borg to send a probe to their allies?

1. Send probe towards Ally
2. Ally is rushing to build a 2nd SB that can get tech 6 hull
3. Probe arrives and takes the SB by ground attack
4. Borg builds Firecloud in ally's territory.

Now the alliance is linked via chunnel. This can be achieved in 3 or 4 turns from the start of the game.

Borg is now protected, especially if Ally can provide Loki or web mine support.

Game is going to be a long one for everyone else :)

What about a Borg / Rebel combination?

I dread to think the expansion power of the Borg if they had Falcons at their disposal as opposed to the somewhat limited probe.

The % of the galaxy that can be assimilated with Falcons increases dramatically vs that with the basic probe.

Also those planets that are a bit shy of minerals to build the SB + Firecloud can now be easily supplied with the necessary minerals by the Falcons.

I don't see how you can stop that type of expansion, it would be on a massive scale.

And then you also get the free fighter building ability to boot!

92 days, 16 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I let my mind wander about this question in the past days (I walk 25 minutes to work each day ;) ) and I think that the Borg maybe the best race as a partner for everybody.

What the partner of the Borg gets:

1. An enormous push to the econony.

- You can have loads of colonists everywhere you need them. I always have the problem of "overstretching", meaning on my far borders I have way too less clans to be effective. Borg will solve that easily.

- Furthermore you have the Firecloud, the best ship possible to help you with your economy. You will have absolutely no neutronium shortages.

- With a fighter race, you do not need any Bovinoid planets.. you just need to find a planet with good temperature and a lot of natives. Problem solved.

- You have access to two of the biggest warships in the galaxy and you are able to move your fleet fast and with nearly no fuel costs

I'm sure you can find additional advantages...

What the Borg gets:

This depends on your partner, but most importantly he gets protection in the early stages (unless you ally with the EE... as stated this would be the worst choice I guess). And after that, there are endless possibilities you gain. Just make sure you get something to counter the Privateer. So main ally partners should be Fed, Liz, Fashist, Crystal or maybe the Robot.

EDIT: or the Privateer, of course ;)

91 days, 18 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

This question so depends on the two races your facing off against or the other three two - man teams your facing off against.

But...if I have to go in blind, choose first, not considering any of the other two-man teams you might be facing....

I'll take the Borg / Lizard any day all day! In my opinion this combo offers the fewest solution combo's to actually having a chance to defeat them. (Zero - LOL)

-Admiral Star

And P.S. Borg / Lizard owns the Crystals with numerous options for 10 heavy phasers and massive minefields of their own with THE TWO BEST Economy's in the game. It's all Economics baby, and NOBODY matches the economics of the BORG/LIZARD! Sorry.... it is what it is and what this game is, IS ECONOMICS ! Ain't nobody building more ships, nobody building more starbases, and NOBODY laying out more clans, than this NIGHTMARE DUO. A pair of GOOD BORG/LIZARD players OWN the universe. blah blah anything you like, but you will be out starbased, you will be out shipped and you will be dominated.

And P.S.S. No Borg/Lizard Combo need put MK 7's on ANYTHING...It's all MK 8's, and don't speak to me about the cost of laying minefields - blah blah, because if you can afford it, and THEY CAN, you build MK 8's for increased damage in combat.

91 days, 11 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I agree with Rudel... The best race for a team is Borg + anyone. After turn 25 the only solo race that can stop Borg is the Priv. Remember we are talking about race talents not players style or skill.

Best team
Borg + anyone that can stop the Priv.
I prefer the Lizards and/or Priv as a team mate.

Borg vs Crystal = Firecloud tows Cube and walks from planet to plant channeling in more FCC and fuel when ever needed. Attack from all side and the Crystals cannot lay enough mines to stop the Borg. If I find myself next to the Crystals I attack with HYP ships very early and make him lay webmines. This hampers his expansion very early. I then build defensive Starbases on the edge of his space. The Crystals must then build war fleets to advance and this hampers mine production.

The very best thing about the Borg is they can deploy their entire war fleet on the offensive and recall it at any moment to defend. Fireclouds are by far the most powerful ship in the game and they suck in combat.

91 days, 10 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Rudel/Vacco and others -- you are assuming the Borg team is allowed to grow in strength. That would be a mistake to allow them to do so. They must be hit hard early in the game when they are at their weakest. Borg are relatively weak early and relatively strong late. Why would anyone wait until late to attack the Borg? If they do wait, then yes your examples above hold true.

In individual games, I agree that by late game, an equal-strength Crystal will usually be overpowered by an equal strength Borg that is allied appropriately. That is why it is so important that most races including Crystals make sure that the Borg (and Privateer) do not grow to an equal or greater size. If players allow the Borg or Privateer to prosper early in the game, then they deserve to lose during the end-game. The one game here at Nu where my Crystal alliance did not win (and deserved to lose) was when the Borg grew large and his alliance eventually won the game (he was in NW corner of the galaxy and I was in the SE corner of the galaxy).

Now in team games, the same theme applies -- the team with the Crystal Confederation and his/her team-mate must apply military and diplomatic pressure early-on to thwart the growth of the team that includes the Borg. And in Nu -- where there are 6 teams of 2 starting in a 500 planet galaxy - then the first priority of all the 2-player teams is to hit the team with the Borg (and the team with the Privateer) fast and hard so they don't grow to have multiple Cubes/Fireclouds or large-size Meteor Wolfpacks. If the other teams do not hit the Borg/Pirates early, then once again they deserve to lose, which they most likely will.

91 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Which is why the Lizard is the race for the Borg. The Lizard is a fast early game race and can shorten the amount of time to the first Cubes, as well as out gun anyone from turns 1-25.

Agree that the Borg is a mandatory race in any BEST two man team.

A Case can be made for the Borg/Crystal as the Crystal can provide the protection needed for the Borg from turns 1-25, but IMHO, the Lizard mining / Loki / Downloading / Hisssss (Which makes the Borg Probe in middle and end game extremely useful when they are otherwise just strategic recycling ships.)

I still think it is a game of Economics and the better Economics generally wins. Economically the Borg/Lizard is an unmatchable pair. I also like the Offensive capability of a Borg / Lizard way better than a Borg / Crystal. It's just faster with LCC, which has to be one of the TOP 5 ships in the game. A fleet of LCC can devastate an enemy and with Borg clans everywhere, well....ouch.

Borg / Anyone but the Crystal and Lizard can be wiped out early.

-Admiral Star

91 days, 8 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I just have to agree, the borg are your best friend in VGA always and forever. ;)
Lizard+borg is a great combo, one of the best in my opinion.
The loki is however not an all-around cloak defense, fed, lizard or romulan cloakers make it through
undetected.
They can be hampered by crystal + romulan, or similar pirate + fed, pirate + romulan.
Still at advantage if cards are played right but it's not be all-end-all.

Everything loses to Borg + klingon. You control the cloaking with pop ships. You control the big battles with pop ships. You hyper-pillage. Ill-wind is the mid-ship early game killer. Vicky is a decent front ship. You threaten clan drop, cloak. You control information - nothing can hurt a fuelless klingon probe. There are lots and lots and lots of advantages some of which I won't discuss because I want to actually have a real game with it someday. (Almost did, as emork knows, but that fell apart.)

Aside from borg alliances one which hasn't been mentioned but is very strong is crystal + colonial. Don't ever doubt the positional strength of such a team or they will rock you.,

87 days, 20 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

1st choice: Liz + Borg.

My 2nd choice is off the beaten path. The offensive strength of the Xtals plus any good cloaker will be seriously under estimated by most, especially if the alliance was off the radar until the first sudden attack. I'd pick Liz for this too for the ground assult, mining and hissing but the other cloakers also work well.

84 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

How bout Liz + Rebel.

The more I think about this strategy the more I want to try it.

I've mentioned it before I"m sure, but the scenario is as follows:

1. Move LCC over enemy planet and drop your 290 clans. If that is not enough to take a planet then move LCC to outer edge of the warp well.
2. Send Falcon to meet LCC and ressupply with 120 clans.
3. Move LCC back over planet and drop 120 clans.

Repeat this process until the planet falls.

I'm curious if someone can find a way to stop this strategy.

Only the Borg, Crystals and Fascists can combat this tactic as far as I can tell.

84 days, 6 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Capnkill, you will run into fuel problems if you base your main assult on HYP ship resupplies but I have seen this tactic used with some success.

Better Tactic Borg-Liz team using only LLC. Lizards drop troops and capture planet, Lizard's pick up troops and passes race worlds to the borg. Using the Borg LLC he drops troops, takes planet from lizard and then resupplies troops to Lizards. I seen games won by building almost nothing but FCC,LCC and LDSF. Big warships end up sitting on boarder worlds for defence. You win by killing off the entire population of all races and advoiding space combat... The Fascists are the only ones that can defend against this with glory devices but he cannot stand up to the Borg or Lizards war shps.

84 days, 6 hours, 0 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Rebel-Liz is very strong. Fuel supply for Falcons is no problem in this rich universe.
Rebel-Privateer is even stronger I think. With the Rebel in your team you don't need Lizard Ground Attack. With Rebel Ground Attack you don't get the base but the planet. The most important thing is to destroy enemy bases and ships without losses ot at least with a better PBP-result than your enemies. This way you build more ships in the long run. If you have 500 you win.

77 days, 11 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

One of my favorites is a Borg - Romulan alliance. You get all the best ships, early protection for the Borg, a great economy, overall a really good team.

Best counter would be the Privs, but that's why you trade for or otherwise acquire a Loki from the Lizard or Fed. (Either an Annihilation or a Darkwing equipped with disruptors and gamma bombs can capture many small useful ships like the Loki, Cobol, MBR).

77 days, 0 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Romulan is the second slowest race, behind only the Borg. How do they provide any kind of protection?

77 days, 0 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Yah similar thoughts here... the last thing the Romulans want is to have to defend someone at the beginning :)

I think the toughest alliance to probably stop when played well is Borg / Crystal or Borg / Lizard.

With Borg / Crystals you get the early defense, and you have the ability to chunnel in the deadly webs right into enemy territory, and then ressuply those webs with fireclouds.

Imagine a Firecloud comfortably surrounded by web fields as a center hub right in the middle of your territory. You can't get to it, it just sits there and Emeralds just come right through to do as they please. It becomes a mobile web laying platform that you can't touch. Good luck with that.

Biocides aren't even necessary in this arrangement, Ahnialations will be more than enough to take out fleets that will undoubtadly break apart as they deal with Webs. That's the last thing you need while trying to sweep your way out of a mess, is a stack of Ahnialations hunting your arse down.

Borg / Lizards is the same idea with the early defense / economy, but now you can afford the fightters and 150% damage Biocides are probably the last thing anyone wants to see.

And hell the Lizards basically get unlimited clans anywhere they want to go. GOod luck with that one as well :)

If the Borg can't ally with either of those two, then next in line would be a fighter race, like the Robots.

16 days, 7 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Me with me ?

16 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Plague yes this is true. Unfortunatelly it is all too easy that someone decides to cheat. And just takes a second account. He then takes the race that drops out and can then play 2 races with one aim. That is a huge advantage...

16 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I'm just about to finish a game with Fascist / Colonial alliance, and it feels like a dream offensive alliance. Few things can stop the juggernaut that is Virgos & Vickies supported by pop ships. No fear of mine fields, no fear of cloakers or even running out of fuel.

Crystal webs might slow them down, but even then the multitude of beams and fuel will overcome.

16 days, 3 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Colonial/Fascist seems interesting, mines shutdown glory intercepts pretty thoroughly, so taking that out of the equation and having a virgo/vicky combo after the glories would be deadly :D

15 days, 8 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Privateer & Tholian is everyones nightmare.
I think that is best combo of the game. They both rob ships with tow.
Emerald is one of the best middle/low level ship there is and MBR in tholian hand...
That can end your supply runs fast.

Then comes Federation with everyone else.
Cos of Federation super refit. They can just fill ship slots with "sh1t". And later fed upgrades them.
+ with federation money they can lay huge minefields.

15 days, 4 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Both are great races but I would pair them with a partner that can clone to take full advantage of what they capture.

Xtals + any cloaker

Priv + any big carrier ship race

My vote is still for Borg and Liz.

14 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

This game starts with economics, it is the foundation to any victory, and there are no two better economic races than the Borg/Lizard.

Many have mentioned that any best pair must include the Borg. (Agree)

Borg/Crystal would be my 2nd choice.

But for sheer blow out the game economics and overall kick your arse potential my vote has to stay with the Borg/Lizard. I just can't see a better pair.

There are many interesting combo's and fun combo's but this folder is best and best has to be the Lizard/Borg.

-Star

14 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

The game is won by who has the ability to constantly gain more (and better) ships than the opponents after the ship limit is reached, assuming the victory condition / setup is so that the two race combo needs to fight before the game is won. There is no "unbreakable" combo.

The game is not won by races or combos, but by choosing strategy suitable for the situation/setup and executing it with superior effect.

Borg/Liz would be strong in many situations, but couldn't handle well early assault for example from Robot/Liz or worse Priv/Bird.

14 days, 13 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@valhalla
Well usually you dont got time to cln ships, cloaning ends when there is 450 ships in the game? Or has that been changed in VGAPNU ?

14 days, 12 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

In my experience, if cloning ships is part of your plan from the start, you can usually find a way to make it happen.

Your mileage may vary. Offer not applicable in Puerto Rico.

-V-

14 days, 12 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Yes, it can be done between allies and dedication. But stealing something of worth and cloning must happen way before turn 30 if you're against anything worthy. Sure you could clone something nice, but anything that would change the balance of the game. Doubt it.

After the ship limit you can't clone. Period. Unless the game is practically done.

14 days, 12 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

A couple of falcons and you can:

Refuel your pillaging or ground assault ships safely.

Move money, those last few minerals needed for that next build before the cue, etc vast distances quickly

Move pop to those remote corner human planets for a fast pre ship limit SB build

With 2 fireclouds and you can move your entire fleet vast distances for 50 fuel.

A single SSD and you can have all kinds of fun.

A few cobalts (hard to capture, I'll admit) and most of your fuel issues are solved.

ANY crappy HYP ship and you can get to your alie faster. . .

I'm not even going to mention the huge amount of fun and possibilities a few MCBRs adds.

The best part of all this is that your enemies will often not be expecting or be prepared for these new toys. A few captured ships can open up a new world of creativity. . . I play cloaking races - we make our own luck. Ship capture may be a lot harder and more luck based for the big carrier races. If that is where you are coming from, you have a point about it being less likely and less of a game changer.

In this ideal 2 player borg and liz team, one member cloaks, hyp ships and fireclouds exist. Ship capture can be a real and meaningful part of the plan with this and many other combos.

-V-

14 days, 8 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I'm not sure if you can beat a Borg / Liz combo.

Liz offer early game protection and financial boost.

Borg can offer unlimited clans far out into the galaxy.

And then you have the 150% damage Ahni / Bio combo.

The only annoying part is having to buy fighters, but for an economy that combines Lizards advantages with Chunneling I don't think that would really be much of an issue.

14 days, 8 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

capnkill i think you give too much credit for that combo.

I would play agaist your Lizard + Borg with Fed + Tholian.
And u will loose hard.

Or that we both can control of those 2 races in same game.
And i show you how they loose, ez.

14 days, 8 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I think the Fed/Crystal combo can be quite fearsome. I also must state for the record that it is the players not the race that makes the difference (as well as well placed luck).

But I must also add, that I have played the Lizard/Borg/Colonial combo against a Fed/Crystal/Empire combo, where the Fed group had us out numbered in both ships and planets when they decided to go to war and we had to quickly create an alliance. We eventually had them hemmed in so bad that they couldn't move and gave up. It is a scary combo to go against. They are powerful. But they lost. Could they win with other commanders and a little luck their way? Sure. Would they make the Liz/Borg combo lose hard? Not so sure.

14 days, 8 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

You are giving way to much credit to web mines. FCC alone trump webmines and between the feds and Crystals you have no big war ships. Biocide with 150% damage buff and Heavy Phasers will smoke anything you can muster. That is in addition to Borg/Liz producing 3 to 1 ships to everyone else.

14 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@dragondejhi, The discussion is about the best possible race combos without the human element. If you had the perfect player playing each race what combos would win bases only on ships and race skills.

14 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

understood... consider me scolded ;-)

Borg/Liz - ship list is weak, race advantage is huge. This will trump.

14 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Borg/Liz accualy have a very good options for ships.

Probes Hyp
Echo- Hisss and Temp
FCC - Channel
LCC- Good Cloaking minelayer
Loki- Decloak
T-Rex - Cheap Battleship
Biocides- Big Carrier
Anni- Big Battleship

14 days, 7 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@ vacco blixx
"You are giving way to much credit to web mines"
Do i?

I stop huge numbers of T-rex and Federation and EE and my old ally Privateer.
But its just me.

In remit i got 5 fronts and i start that as subtitute player.
Im loosing that game, but lets see how long it takes.
In that game i got everyone as my enemy (substitute lizard come to aid) after i killed the orginal lizard. And most of them are for 40-50 rounds.
That lizard is good player, but he got some other duties aswel.
So he came cos i ask. And he is only player here who got access to my account in case i cant make my turns.

In Karelia system i got EE+Klingon allied or how you would put co-operative with Tholian and Colonist + that privateer who wanna act as my friend.
Just a matter when i go down, but there is like 20-40 rounds. And they need 5 players to do so.

And u think u can fu(k with me all by yourself ?
^^ Think again.

14 days, 7 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@Plague you need to stop looking at what you have done in the past and your example does not factor in Fire Clouds. Channeling makes webmines very weak. A fleet with 100 Hvy Phases will remove webmines faster than you can lay them. All you can do is lay small web fields to slow the borg/liz but you will never drain a ship of fuel and you don’t have the big carries needed to win the war. That is not saying webmines are not useful. They will slow the approaching ships and will stop the enemy from using intercepts but you cant beat a channeling network with webmines alone.

14 days, 7 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Plague, you are playing against noobs. The Crystals (and Borg and Privateers also) lose a good bit of advantage when the opponents are good players with experience fighting them. Everyone gets pounded by the Crystals until they figure out how to beat them. Then it is just a matter of economy and logistics.

14 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Taxes with the Borg/Liz will net 5k per 10,000,000 population planet. It is not to hard to have 6 or 7, 10mil population planets by turn 30. So building 200 fighters a turn is very possable with a channel network setup and it only take 1 turn to resupply a Cube after combat.

14 days, 6 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@ daniel payne.
in all his wisdom say - "Plague, you are playing against noobs"

U were once my ally, and i see how you do things. I can say, that you are total noob.
You might be forum tiger. But what comes to calculate VGAP you're nothing.

So take that vacco blixx with you di/k sucker and go skiing.
(If i think more course words, i let you know)

14 days, 6 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Plague,

I too thought Web Mines were unstoppable until I played as the Borg, and realized, that it is the Borg that are unstoppable if they are allowed to thrive.

The Lizards would ensure that the Borg is allowed to thrive early, and once that happens, it is a done deal.

Web Mines, as much as I love them and appreciate their power, are completely worthless against advanced Borg.

Bios / Ahnis / T-Rexes with 10 Heavy Phasers (this is easy for this combo, since money and minerals are absolutely no object.

No web mine can stop this, the Borg / Liz will NEVER run out of fuel, the Borg have more fuel around they they know what to do with, they hardly use any. Anytime you run low you chunnel in more fuel and continue to sweep. The Crystlas cannot keep up with this. The Feds can't really do anything to help either. The Borg / Liz can systematically move through the webs and sweep them with impunity.

All you need is enough Heavy Phasers to kill 150 lyrs of webs, which is 57 Heavy Phasers.

That's 6 ships with Heavy PHasers, and any Web field that is dropped is gone instantly.

I don't think you understand the power of the borg enough based on your comments in the "First 10 turns for Borg" thread, or whatever it is called.

When you suggsted that all you need is 3 or 4 SBs as the borg, I instantly knew that you do not understand the build cue power that the Borg can have over a game.

So while the Borg / Liz combo sweeps up all Webs with no effort they also begin to control the ship cue.

Staying ahead of the build cue with any race other than Borg is very challenging if not close to impossible, but with the Borg, and the chunnel ability, you can ALWAYS be ahead of the ship cue with minimal effort. There is absolutely no reason for why the Borg can't have a SB on every single planet they own, with very little effort.

You choke the build cue and you enter a war of attrition vs Web Mines, that the Crystals and the Feds absolutely cannot win.

Web Mines are no good.

Fed / Crystal ships don't stand a chance against Cubes, let alone 150% damage Bios / Ahnis.

This is just a brutal combination of power that I just don't see how you can stop. Even a 3 team alliance would probably fail.

14 days, 6 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

capnkill ask Ubik.
Do i got skills to stop huge fleet with webs.
BTW do you call ubik as those so called noobs?
That is just example.

In remit i have played since turn 9 agaist multiple races.
Now its turn 120+ and im still alive.
If i would be you, i would listen what i have to say.

14 days, 5 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

All I know is that you don't understand the full power of the Borg, you've said it yourself in the other thread.

TRUST me, I know what webs can do, I've played Crystals many times, but there is no denying that Chunneling is the trump for Webs.

Maybe if you had enough cloakers you can cloak intercept all teh Fireclouds, but that doesn't work either, because only one Firecloud needs to have fuel, the rest can be empty and decoys..

I mean, you say you can use webs to stop the Borg / Liz, but you don't say how. 57 Heavy Phasers and the biggest web you got is gone instantly.

You can saturate your space with little interlocking webs, that I understand, and that would only slow down the Borg... but they have all the time in the world, because they control the ship cue.

The question I have for you, is how can you make the Borg run out of fuel with Webs?

14 days, 5 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

"Web Mines are no good.Fed / Crystal ships don't stand a chance against Cubes, let alone 150% damage Bios / Ahnis."

Another brain strom from Daniel.

I can say that even kitty hawks kick living sh1t out from your biocides.

14 days, 5 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Alright, playing devils advocate here. I also agree Borg/liz is way to go...

BUT.... there is a lot of assumptions here.

It does no good having 57 heavy phasers if only at most the first 10 work. They need to be placed correctly. How to chunnel them in if they can't get to the center. I state this because although I love the Borg/Lizard combo and firmly believe in it, I also helped destroy a Borg/Lizard combo with the power of the Crystals. This was against EXPERIENCED players. It WAS the crystals that did this. You catch ships by themselves. I am not sure what world had 6-10 giant ships that can travel in packs all the time. And if they do, fine, just move and come back after they leave.

And yes, the Feds money can keep the Crystals supplied. The crystals weakness is that they are limited in economic and logistics ability. If you have another race to help and supply those things, they are scary indeed. Even to, in my opinion, the better Borg/Lizard pair.

Sorry, I am sure this will continue the debate, but let's not get silly emotional.

14 days, 5 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Captain"noob"

I got only 1 working SB.
Like i say earlier, tiny is massive.
I stop like 20-30 T-rex and sh1t load of federation Novas, Missouris etc.

That lizard gain in 60 turns like 100 ly of space.
Do the math how much its per round.

I respect his fleet and i think he respect my defens.
If you Daniel wanna come after me, prepair yourself to real war.
I dont die that easily.

Fucking paper tiger.

14 days, 5 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

>> Sorry, I am sure this will continue the debate, but let's not get silly emotional.

Im with full <3 in this game.
Sorry :)

14 days, 5 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@dragondejhi, You use 1 FCC to tow a Cube. You place only enough fuel to move X light years. Keep a good amount of supplies on board the FCC. Keep the Cube on Sweep and transfer fuel to the FCC each turn. Once you reach a large webfield you channel in the reset of the fleet and sweet. If your towed Cube runs low on fuel just channel in more fuel. With 4 or 5 FCC all towing a cube from different direction and a fleet bouncing between them webmines are little more than a speed bump.

As the Privs are the bane of the Borg, The Borg are the bane of the Crystals.

14 days, 5 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Yea, I know all the tricks. Did it many times. You are correct. This works.

But on the other side, how many FCC's do you have? Endless amounts? Forget the Cubes. Cloak intercept the FCC's and trade a cloaker for the FCC. Tow the FCC away, any endless possiblities. This turn my Crystal player will capture a Bio, the 9th carrier this game because they have been stranded. Yes, you are talking Feds/Crystals. But what Crystal player will not trade or use diplomacy to get their hands on cloakers? And yes, that is part of the game play. I agree Borg/Lizard wins. I would always choose this, but there ways around the best attacks. And Crystal/feds have this ability. LOL, I have both seen and been there. I'm a true Lizard player. Which means I act brave in the heat of any situation...... but am scared of everything ;-)

14 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I always run my tower out of fuel so that the Emeralds fight the heavy ship instead. Fireclouds are about the only trick there is against webs, but it sure is a good one. I have had it used on me and it sure seems strong. The hardest part about invading the Crystals is that you can not afford to make a mistake. With Fireclouds you can actually be aggressive because rescuing ships from mistakes is simple.

Also, I love getting under Plague's skin. Plague if you are so much better than me, why do I win my games while you do not?

14 days, 4 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

The Borg build only Fireclouds and Cubes after a certain point, the Borg should have more Fireclouds than they know what to do with.

You can chunnel in 10 fireclouds without putting in much of a dent into your supply. You only need fuel on one of them.

You can't cloak intercept that way, its too risky. You have 1 in 10 odds that you hit the right one, even then, as mentioned, the Borg player can have his FC run out of fuel upon arrival or web mine hit.

57 Heavy Phasers is nothing. How hard is it to have 6 Bios with HPs when the Lizards and Chunneling power your economy?

I don't see how you can lose, I really don't. If someone loses with this setup they ahve made silly mistakes, experienced or not, we all make mistakes.

You don't have to fly far, you can fly slowly, but any web field that covers you up is gone the same turn, so no effect. You can place webs in front of the armada, but that's fine, so the firecouds that are towing hit the web, big deal.

Whats the risk, the webs best damage is to split apart big fleets so the Crystals can isolate and kill piece meal, but that doesn't work either.

Lets say you move 6 Cubes and 6 Fireclouds all at once. All 6 fireclouds move about 20 lyrs, everyone is sweeping, lets say Crystals put a web in front just out of sweep range so the fleet hits the webs at random places over that 20 lyrs span.

Ok, then you can just use ID chunnel, you can chunnel the trailing fleet to a far away Firecloud who relays the chunnel to your lead Firecloud / Bio group, and there you go, in one turn, everyone has caught back up and the pack can advance again.

It should be IMPOSSIBLE to capture any ships from Borg / Lizards. If Crystals capture a Firecloud / Bio group from this scenario then that is a mistake made by the opponent. I don't see how a Bor g/ Liz commander can possibly lose ships this way.

Oh I'm low on fuel, time to chunnel in some more, or I can chunnel out and get some more, its so easy, I don't see how you can lose.

14 days, 1 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Wow, you guys filled my inbox. I guess I must reply.
Expert Borg will universally annihilate expert crystal. It is one of the most one-sided race matchups in the entire game. You need an almost trivial amount of resource expenditure as a borg to force immense resource expenditure from the crystal player and the crystal's only real hope is that you somehow royally screw up (not impossible).
If you consider the game as a whole, that is to say from start to finish, with nacent and well developed economies, with or without trade between races, I would personally say it's the worst matchup. A well developed pirate for instance can take on many of his nemeses, a well developed borg presents a threat even to the pirate but on the flip side the crystal at any stage remains essentially powerless in the face of the borg.

The corollary is borg crystal is a good alliance so there is good reason for the crystal to cozy up to the cubes.

13 days, 23 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I'm with Dungeonmanster on this one.

In any sort of Xtal+Fed match up between two 2 player teams, the Xtal team has until about turn 20-30 to kill the borg. When I say kill, I mean totally eliminate every last borg planet and ship; the borg are the only race that can lose thier HW and get knocked back to 11th place AND STILL WIN. It is damn hard to kill all of a race with probes that can assimilate if they are played by a competent commander.

As soon as the Liz get a probe back into borg space the borg will will have LCCs, hissers for cash, 100 % mining and Lokis (for those that want to try Xtals and Priv). . . Borg may start slow, the Liz doesn't suffer from that challenge.

Sure web mines are great. And I agree that the Xtals are often an underrated race and a pain to fight. However, it is much easier to simply contain a Xtal/Fed (or whatever) alliance and expand elsewhere then it is for the Xtal/Feds to break out of that containment. Breaking out, even when successful, is a slow process. Cloakers plus chunnels are powerful tools. While the Xtals/Fed are stuck in trench warfare the borg start to ramp up cubes with tech 10 beams and it is soon all over.

If you are going to team with the Xtals, grab the borg or give them a cloaking partner. Cloaking web mine layers convert one of the most defensive races in the game into an offensive powerhouse. Which leads me to. . .

There is a way to at least partially screw this up Borg/Liz vs Xtal/Feds: lose an LCC to a web mine well before the ship limit. A good player is not likely to make that mistake. We all have off days but hoping for one seems like a lot to hope for to base a strategy on. . .

-V-

13 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Dungeon master,
Aint that option would be nice where you can set-> do you want forum notifications or not :)
And yes Borg would kill Tholians cos of that FCC and Borgs endless fuel runs to the attack fleet.
(that is 1v1 game, not 11 player game)
U dont probe tholian planets, or all of your probes will stay there :)
Crystal thunder would be my choise for Tholian capital ship.

Otherwise it would be Emerald with heavy phasers and mark8 torps in this game.
Cos mark7 torpedos are not calculated correctly in this game.

Ugh, chief has spoken.

13 days, 22 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

>> In any sort of Xtal+Fed match up between two 2 player teams, the Xtal team has until about turn >> 20-30 to kill the borg.
U start strong, then you flip. U talk first Fed + Tholian and then talk only tholian.

13 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Dear Daniel
"Also, I love getting under Plague's skin."

U dont get there :) But u try harder.
).)

13 days, 21 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Close the case file ;-) It's Lizard/Borg as "best" alliance pair !

Tom Graves asks in his very last sentence, the weakest pair? The pair everyone runs over...

Off the top of my head ... Bird/Fascist...with a bit of cloaker redundancy, no ship stealing power of anykind, and no end game might.

I'm not as sold on that one as I am the Lizard/Borg.

-Star

13 days, 21 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

And in last words...
When game gets over 100 turn, you see who are allies.
And there is pattern.
I dont got any respect for player named orsen, garvon (who for so long enjoy my shared intel with his ally and was man who didt help his Main ally EE)
Garvon i wont ever ask your alliance again.

What i will respect is Kukala that little Hitler sorry Fascist is one tuff cookie!

13 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Tom Graves asks in his very last sentence, the weakest pair? The pair everyone runs over...Off the top of my head ... Bird/Fascist

Do you wanna c Resolute what pillage your planets? There is no "weak" combo.

There is no absolute winner like that what you say Gorn/Borg. --- PFFF

Into the end game only PBP matters.

13 days, 21 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Take some stardust :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Bdw2USpPk

roll up your bills and take it.

13 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Robots and there ability to lay mines is a big advantage for any alliance.

13 days, 21 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@Plague

True. I view the Feds as a minor annoyance. Here is why:

The Fed retro fit is nice. Their big ship is alright but it is no carrier. Their mining is a penalty - 70% vs 200% (Liz) and a ton of pop (Borg).

One big plus on your side: with an Xtal alie, Liz ground assult will be minimal to avoid the threat of LCC capture. The best thing you can say is that the Xtal/Feds take out the main way the Liz usually fight. Then again, the Liz don't usually have access to cubes. . .

Vs the mid to late game what the Feds do just wont matter; they are going to get steam rolled unless they kill all the borg. They should have been pinned down early and at best are expanding slowly. Your team will be behind in planet count (you don't hyp) and will have to attack in the mid to late game. Your space will likely be lit up with web mines so everyone will know where you are. Meanwhile the borg has hyped all over the place and the Liz also have expanded explosively.

Borg/Liz simply beat the Xtals/Feds economically with a combo of assimilate, hiss, chunnel, and HYP.

Your best fully retrofitted Fed Novas are now facing Cube carriers with high tech beams. At this point, the Liz have more money then they know what to do with and have also hissing borg planets with the obsolete probes used in the early expansion. Liz have 100% mine bonus so they have lots more minerals. Borg have pop and can build more mines than you. So both races are beating you with mineral production. Plus the Borg can also chunnel merlins around to harvest supplies and get that 550 moly. Chunneling by itself is a game changer. Maybe you can do better at generating cash?

The Anarchy natives are paying 100% (they are all borg now) and the good natives are run by Liz with plenty of pop from the borg. So there are no bad govt natives in your opposition empires. All this and hissing to. Pop for Liz, assimilation of low govt natives and hiss are 3 reasons your team doesn't have the $ your opponents have. Maybe your Fed ships are better in fights?

You, my Fed friend, are looking at a fleet of cubes vs your expensive retrofitted tech 10 torp throwers. Not a good thing - try it in some sims. Likely, due to more planets and a better economy, they have more Cubes then you have Novas - Double ouch. Fewer big ships that are lower quality isn't looking good. The pain only gets worse. Imagine 10 of your big ships vs 10 Biocides. Now imagine those 10 Biocides with a Liz 150% combat bonus. . .

So, less $, less minerals and less kick butt ability.

Order now and you will get to fight fully loaded SBes for free!

Borg/Liz can also "put a Starbase in a bottle" and install it where ever they can chunnel to - that will be the planets near you. So if you are able to somehow invade their planets your fighting fully loaded SBes and/or ships set to scan your web mines over bases set to refuel. . . You, the Feds are fighting bases and cubes every step of the way with your tecked out torp thowers and some kitties or what ever you think makes you great. You pay dearly for any planetary gains. Your opponent is earning more PBP than you are from your advance.

But wait, there is even more:

The borg/liz have installed a Firecloud or two somewhere ahead of your advance, they don't have to fly around at w9 and deal with your allies web mines. They chunnel in and out. . . That makes capturing those cubes damn near impossible.

-V-

13 days, 21 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

>> Their mining is a penalty - 70% vs 200% (Liz) and a ton of pop (Borg)

Kitty hawk cost almost nothing from mineral part and federation got money ;)
Then you put there, dip, missouri, nova as minesweepers.
What can 5 kitty do and they are backed up with minesweepers like those torp ships?
5 kitty is 20 PBP. Biocide is 18 PBP to build.
Think about that for moment. Who will win?
And then slow nebula comes there with 350kt of torps :)

Im way too bad :D

13 days, 21 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@ valhlla wrote in drunk :"Borg/Liz simply beat the Xtals/Feds economically with a combo of assimilate, hiss, chunnel, and HYP."

U just compare to end game. What happends after 25 turn?
Federation got huge numbers of empty hulls what it will refit after the ship limit is full.
And he can give ships away like they are berries.

Can GORN or BORG do the same?
Fed got time to mine those minerals rest of the game.
Do GORN or BORG got time to for that?
No, they dont.

That is just one example how i broke up that alliance.
And i think even better combination would be Priv + Borg.
Cos priv with MBR can tow that FCC to the distance location without notice every1.
Then borg chunnel fleet there and start attack. Another part of cluster is taken.
In meanwhile they do that thing in some other part of the cluster.
and chunnel their fleet in that location.
Like i say, i have played with borg earlier.
Well i have played with all races. That why im not expert of any race.
Im good with everyone of them.
I know their strenght and weaknesses.

13 days, 20 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

OK, you build any 5 ships you want from your fleet and arrange them in any order you want. And you put anything you want on them.

I'll tell you what I'm going to build so you can plan. I'll be building 5 Biocides and I'll handicap myself by merely put Disruptors on them before turning them over to the Liz.

Lets see who will win?

If you think this is "unfair" then you may be missing the considerable economic advantages you would be up against that allow Borg/Liz to build cubes while your building kitties and whatever. We can see who is still standing and look at PBPs too.

13 days, 20 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Vallahalla what you dont get?

And if on Rush cost me 14 PBP i have give to him more than 100 worth of PBP.

So valhalla, dont noob fuck with me.
I will respect my ally, but i piss on you.

--- edit too much rally talk ---
ps. free the noobs from cages!

13 days, 20 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

" Well i have played with all races. That why im not expert of any race.
Im good with everyone of them.
I know their strenght and weaknesses. "

Maybe so. I've been playing on and off since 95. However, I am not one of the top players here. I have not played all races and I freely admit that the Feds are one of the races I know very little about. I'm pretty sure I have never played them. Perhaps you are an expert and are new to Nu - there are lots of people here like that. Right now your profile isn't showing a string of successes showing that you are good with many races. Time will tell.

I've got enough on my plate right now otherwise I'd challenge you to a Borg/Liz vs Fed/Xtals game.

-V-

13 days, 20 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

>> Maybe so. I've been playing on and off since 95.

I have programmed since 94 :D
and trust me i got some help from my "shit" to calc this game.

13 days, 20 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

One Lizards xray warp1 Biocied will kill 5 KittyHawks. And any good player would just pick apart your fleets with LCC and tow them to waiting Cubes.

The Borg/Priv would be my 2nd choice. The mobility of the FCC fleet is scary. With wolf packs popping in and out, backed up by real fire power.

13 days, 20 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

"So valhalla, dont noob fuck with me.
I will respect my ally, but i piss on you."

OK OK LOL You are right. Borg/Liz would die. Especially if they fought against someone talented like you. You made your point so I'll back down.

Yes Donald, those 4x mines are a pain and free fighters and ship list are damn nice too. If I had a 3rd addition to my doomed Borg/Liz pair, the Bots and Xtals, both layers, would be top considerations.

13 days, 20 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

"Right now your profile isn't showing a string of successes showing that you are good with many races. Time will tell"

To me my profile looks empty. Dunno why, but it does.
Programming error or they gonna ban me again, when i finish my games :)

Neither way, i calc and i calc.
I see future with those calcs. That why im so pain in the ass.
Just like in chess :)
Why i dont get wins? Cos even in here is inner circle.
Who wanna be admirals.

I got my real life military rank and im fine with that.
I dont need virtual dick.

But if you fuck with me, i will answer.
That much i can promise. :)

13 days, 20 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

"Yes Donald, those 4x mines are a pain and free fighters and ship list are damn nice too."
Untill u find yourself middle of Colonial and Tholian fight.
Col just sweep of your mines and tholian lay web :)
Its currently happening to me... Cylon dont got any change.
Best minesweeper is Merlin with 8 beams... then comes Refinary and Golem.
no 10 beam ships... Loose. But it will take a while until they get total victory.
Im not leaving, even i know i get my a$$ handed to me. It takes 20-40 turns until im dead.
Depends how hard they come.
=)

13 days, 19 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Plague, please...

I sometimes share this game and these boards with my son (who is learning how to play), can you please filter the nasty innuendos and the hardcore profanity? I realize your excited over your positions on the subject, but I know someone as intellegent and articulate as you are can find suitable words for all audiences that might read and play Nu.

Please it would be greatly appreciated.

-Star

13 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

"Plague, please..."
When you talk your mom or dad you say please,
When you talk to me, u say sir.

13 days, 19 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

"can you please filter the nasty innuendos and the hardcore profanity?"

That can be done with one radio-/check Button.
But im not programmer in this site.
So perhaps you should foward your message to the upkeep.

13 days, 19 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

And mister Star... i will not change what im or how i talk becouse of you.
Im sorry about that, but that it is and going to be.

-plague

13 days, 17 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I feel this whole discussion is making wrong assumptions about how the Crystals should fight. Surely the Crystals will be toast if they just build Emeralds, Rubys and Opals, but that's not the way to win. Case in point, in my Crystals game I currently field 12 Crystal Thunders and 34 Diamond Flames out of 147 warships. A Firecloud-Biocide minesweep combo like described above would simply get a DF and a CT or two thrown at it. With any luck, the Firecloud was out of fuel after hitting a web mine and is now mine.

Stealing enemy ships with web mines only works if the opponent doesn't know what he is doing. If he doesn't know, you'll win anyway so that option is not worth exploring. If they know what they are doing, dropping excessive web mine fields is just going to be a ridiculous waste of resources. The real value of web mines is limiting the mobility of the enemy fleet. They will enable Crystals to choose where to fight and when. And that is possible to do with relatively few resources.

A good battle groups consists of 2 CTs, 4 Diamond Flames, 1-2 Emeralds and a handful of Opals. That will take down 2 heavy carriers and a max defence star base should you hit a defended enemy world instead of and undefended one. Aim towards enemy planet clusters, move under cover of small webs. The key point: You can't be intercepted! You'll be able to choose which planets to fight. Preventing an invasion of this kind will tie down enemy resources massively. To surely take your fleet out, they would need to place 3 heavy carriers on any planet in striking distance. Thanks to the web cover, you could even bring 2-3 fuel carriers along to make sure stripping plants of fuel doesn't stop you.

A few strike fleets like this, and suddenly your opponents don't have all that many resources for invading you. The crucial point is that you will be able to take his planets 2-3 times faster than he will be able to take yours.

13 days, 16 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

If i got heart... but i dont.
I just rip yours out of your chest.
We take what we want if you start to fuck with us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCpTmMPWg94&feature=branded

I try to be gentleman. Then i get my RK (assault riffle) and shoot u.
That is what i feel.

When diplomacy ends Plague starts.

13 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Sir SMN,

I like what you wrote and have a strong gut feeling that you know exactly what you are doing. However, I am not quite getting a small portion of your strategy.

I agree that stealing ships will be very hard vs an experienced opponent, XS web mines that just sit there and rot are a waste in many cases. I also agree that the battle groups you outlined are very versatile and quite effective. You could make a good PBP argument with those battle groups.

Interestingly, we both have made points about mobility so I understand what you are saying but I lose you when it comes to implementation. How would an Xtal/Fed combo expand enough to keep up with a Borg/Liz combo that has Hyp ships and chunnels? If both sides have competent commanders, I don't currently see that happening. Part of my argument is that once the Borg/Liz have a planet count advantage, the Xtals/feds have to attack and those attacks will likely be in a limited and predictable places. Borg/Liz mobility allows them to chunnel in "bases in a box" in addition to big ships.

This assumes all 2 teams. With other factors in a full game anything can happen - like a "lets all get together and kill the borg" campaign. Which is common. The Borg and Priv are public enemies 1 and 2 and are often ganged up on in normal games. If that happens, all bets are off as we aren't comparing apples to apples anymore.

-V-

13 days, 12 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

It's a nice theory SMN....but NO. The amount of Moly your going to need to build a fleet big enough is astronomical, every Diamond better have Heavy Phasers, because the Borg/Lizard will make you think they are the Robots laying fields. Your dealing with a pair that has as close to unlimited resources as it gets. I have never swept a Crystal minefield without cover of my own Minefields, layed in both the Borg and Lizard names. Your not just trotting out to destroy anything by intercept. Why is this..because Crystals don't put beams, and why, because the Moly Costs will bury your production. Even if you get the Bov's to do it, or the Fed Refits your entire fleet in Heavy Phasers, the Lizard/Borg never has to leave a Firecloud/Bio combo for more than a turn by itself. You do the sweep math and your 4 light years off the planet with your entire fleet in a few turns. Then it's LCC time...the Fleet never has to land...and hopefully there is a starbase, because it now belongs to the Lizard/Borg.

To be honest..I don't even tow the Bio with a Firecloud, I swing the Firecloud in when I'm 4 lt years off the planet...I tow a Bio with another Bio or a Madnonzilla or T-Rex. It's mathematics, if I have enough Heavy Phasers to sweep a full field, I don't need the firecloud as an escape option, because you can't stick me.

And on your offensive...Logistics kill you. The Lizard/Borg can be everywhere, the Fed/Crystal simply cannot...and you better pay the 10 bazillion Moly to have the Heavy Phasers on those Diamonds, or your attacking fleet will eat more minehits than you'll believe possible..because over a planet in defense, you can lay mi2 mi3 mi4 mi5 etc etc. in defense.

Web Mines are a pain in the ass...they are, but great players with Heavy Phasers own Web Mines.

You just cannot build a bigger fleet by ship-limit than Borg/Lizard and after the limit, who is going to have more starbases to jam a queue than Borg/Lizard. It's economics, logistics, and power.

While your refitting your ships to Heavy Phasers, the Lizard/Borg is already all over your space. Hell the Refit time itself is a game breaker.

I love the aggressive Crystal style SMN, I really do, but NO, Fed/Crystal does not defeat Lizard/Borg.

I don't even know why the Crystal would want the Fed...to fly Crystal Thunders? If I'm a Crystal I'd want the Borg and if I'm a Fed I'd want the Borg or Privateer.

When your spread across 1,000's of light years of map...Fireclouds for the win.

-S

P.S. Plague - Your an asshole.

13 days, 11 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I'm not exactly advocating Crystals/Feds as the best combination around here, my point is there is plenty a Crystal player will be able to do on the offensive and you can't just assume they are toast based on the impossibility to overwhelm an enemy fleet with webmines. Faced with a too high minesweep capability, the webs need to be used to cover own fleet movement and prevent enemy fleet movement. Pick only fights that you will win.

Valhalla, we have to assume a reasonably contested galaxy - if other players are clueless, the Borg/Lizard will have 250 planets before the action even really starts.

Star72066, it's not like an invading Crystal fleet would need to plunge full speed into enemy space. Slow down, sweep, carry loads of supplies in the Emeralds to repair the minehits your Diamonds take. 2 ships with heavy phasers with a few disruptors and heavy blasters are plenty enough to make the enemy economy bleed heavily. Sure you can stop this kind of an invasion fleet if you commit enough resources to do it - but isn't the whole point to tie down lots of enemy resources while using relatively few of your own?

13 days, 11 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

It is SMN..and I love your aggresive thinking concerning the Crystal - I really do, but against the Lizard/Borg it's hopeless. Logistics are a killer... fireclouds. If you went on the offensive, I'd wave to your fleet and continue my offensive, atleast until you got close to something I wanted to keep, such as a heavy Neut. planet...then I would simply chunnel back to defend the fuel or tow chunnel you back to my offensive fleet with LCC and keep on sweeping.

I can tell from reading your posts, your a seasoned Crystal and you know what your doing behind those Diamonds and Thunders.

-Star

13 days, 10 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

star wrote "P.S. Plague - Your an asshole"

Thnx man :)

13 days, 10 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Plague has apparently spent too much time around people who have to call him sir. He does not let something petty like facts stand in the way of what he "knows" and expects us to take him at his word.

Yes, sir, sir Plague, sir. Deny my own experience and get on board with your guesses. Got it.

I am reminded of professor Weiss, whom I despised at the time. But who taught me that conclusions based upon anecdotal evidence are worthless. Fireclouds own tactical warfare. Just because your previous opponents were unable to capitalize upon that does not make it untrue.

13 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I just deny you... shit, Daniel payne.
Im not your father :D
And you forgot that sir.

13 days, 7 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Dont come to the danger zone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvk6DJu26gI&feature=related

Cos then interceptors are coming after u.

13 days, 4 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

So now that we have definitely determined that either the Fed/Crystals or the Borg/Lizards would rule the cluster. Everyone seems to be only talking about a fully developed pair of empires. I really wanted to talk about a more holistic game long view of the pairings.

I will still put in a plug for Fascist/Colonies as a strong contender. Pillaging/Popping/Ground Assaulting/FF/Mine Sweeping/Long range logistics/Cheap ships/cloaking. Lots of capabilities

What two races are the absolute worst paring?

Tom

12 days, 22 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Got ya SMN - I like the way you think! To be honest, the Xtals are in my top 3 race choices (right behind Liz and Borg!). Unlike those top 2, many players overlook the Xtals. They can be quite powerful. Besides, a well played Xtals is typically the last race I want to be fighting as they are a royal pain to deal with. Even winning against them is a trench warfare slog if they are played well.

Anyone else with friends in the military? How often to they swear when discussing something as trivial as different views in a civilian game? And how frequently do they bring up the fact that they are in or were in the service to back up their points? For those I know that are in or were in the armed serves, the answer is almost never on both accounts. Apparently, some people disgrace themselves by making false claims, like this "gentleman": http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/04/ap_faker_040208/

With 7 billion people, it takes all kinds. Sad.

Worst races: It would be two races with a lot of overlap. Maybe Bird/Fasc or Liz/Fasc or 2 carrier races. I was in a team game where one team of 3 consisted of only big scary carrier races. This made them damn vulnerable to cloakers of any sort and one big farm for the privateers.

12 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Just to get all on the same line here. I am assuming everyone is talking a best possible alliance pair in a regular 11-player team of equally skilled (and leaning on more experienced) players, where teams either start the game in alliances of two or early in the game setup the alliance. I would wish to unaccount for the sneaky alliances, as they are imo diplomatic part of the game. The players in alliance would be starting in random places. The ship limit hits around 25-30 and there are no quitters or unregistered players in the game.

Cherry-picking games for good starting clusters or HW locations is a no-no.

And discussion is which alliance pair would win most games in the long run.

Agreed?

My point is that I think Borg is heavily overrated because of the beneficial setups of quitters and unskilled players. Borg trumps in the endgame as FC is simply superb for the logistics, if they can get to endgame with a fleet usable for war. Lizard on the other hand can play unopposed start in almost all setups, as can xtal, robot and maybe even fed. Attacking a skilled player playing a race with defense capabilities will not usually end in your favor, if you can't bring joined forces with your ally.

In a game where everyone is hungry for victory, the early capabilities and (early) economical boost weight more than some simulated fleet battles where you put two best imaginable fleets in VCR and let it decide who will win.

12 days, 19 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

valhalla, agreed. Stealing and cloning HYP ships is something you can almost guarantee with a cloaker and they are nice addition especially for bringing money to front lines. Fireclouds on the other hand are harder, but possible and can be game changing. They can be took even with x-rays if you have an opportunity, but to get cloned fast enough isn't easy. SSD I think is only possible with xtal/priv.

All of that still doesn't help you when the blasters start to heat. SSD is the only one that can give pbs in fleet to fleet battles as when attacking bringing it can force your opposing carriers to right side.

12 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I got bag full of fire.
There is not good / bad races.
Or commanders behind them.
If you wont ally with me, fine. Then i open the gun ports :)

Your choise!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGKfm2rr06Q

12 days, 18 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

plague, what is the point of you making these ridiculous, vague and empty threats?

"I just rip yours out of your chest."
- ridiculous

"Dont come to the danger zone."
- vague

"Then i get my RK (assault riffle) and shoot u."
- empty

You wish to lure someone down to your level, where you win with experience?

12 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

>>What two races are the absolute worst paring?

I would say Klingon with Birds.
They can be devastating at the first, but they both lag middle and end game.
This is purely taken about PBP point of view.

Bird what they can do when
Automa, Gorbie, etc heavy ships start to come in their way ?

12 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

@kosmonymous wrote to piss me off.
"You wish to lure someone down to your level, where you win with experience?"

Im not some random noob, what you can kick when you like it.

i kick you, hard.

12 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Also EE + Borg would overlap heavily in their strengths. Even thought they wouldn't be weak.

12 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

I know you are not some random noob. You are plague and again that's an empty threat. What is the point?

12 days, 18 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Kos...

Im empty threat, so be it.

Im no1, just ignore me :)
I just talk cos i wanna some fresh air in my mouth.

12 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

ps. now you play my game ;)

12 days, 18 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Good enough, I'm all for role-playing and thrash talking, but let's try to keep that in the respective game threads.

12 days, 18 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Anakin the anger will lead to your destruction.

;)

12 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Kos...

Dont give me any advice/rules.
I dont play with them.
=)

12 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Luckily you need the fear before the anger ;)

12 days, 18 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

It is a suggestion and we know both very well that nothing will happen if you do not follow it, like nothing will follow from making threats. And anyone can give you as much advice as they wish. It is up to you to follow/not to follow them. They are only effective if you make less threats and thread-jacking from now on.

12 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

see where that out burst lead you.
I dont giva fuck, so who you are talking with ?

12 days, 18 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

this talk was just like Tholians play the game. First they invate you to their land.
And then they lay huge web and pick up your ships :)

Even now i put seed in kosmonymous head.
Everything i do is for reason :)

Have a nice day.

12 days, 17 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

What about Crystal-Colonial?

Strike groups that sail through mines, have unlimited range, can resupply all ordnance and can't be intercepted.

Still loses to Liz-Borg in resource buildup and large-scale logistics, but has awesome tactical control of battlefields and can pretty much pick their fights.

12 days, 17 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Would still miss the benefit of cloakers. So striking against well supplied planets would be hard and cost many units. Virgo ain't that good when it must strike from the right. I am of course thinking carrier opponent.

12 days, 17 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

>> What about Crystal-Colonial?'
Bad ass.

Endless fuel and figtehrs.

10 days, 6 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Plague you'er BAD-A$$.

I like Bunnies!! \0/

10 days, 4 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

The two races that have not (or hardly) been mentioned are the birds and the rebels.

Personally, I find a bird player that had the chance to develop a fleet of dark wings pretty intimidating. I faced one of those recently and it took a lot of planning to be sort of victorious. Super spy almost never seems to be used, but that may just be my view because I play strictly fascists (strictly come pillage). I don't believe they're useless.

And the rebels have the ground attack, which can be devastating, and they don't get attacked by planets. I know from my experience (again, fascists), that the immunity from planets gives you a lot of tactical options.

A lot has been said about the borg mobility, but I find that to be a double-edged sword. The borg have a tendency to overstretch themselves, trying to protect all their little island-empires. In the end, this makes them weaker as they try to defend too much. Of course, this depends heavily on the strategical situation.

10 days, 3 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Super spy is used all the time, but there's two parts to it:

1. After movement where you get detailed info no the planet (this is used a LOT by Bird players)

2. Before movement to change the FC of the planet (this is probably not used as much, since the Ion cannon thing).

But I think the idea is that the Birdman catch you by surprise, and use the super spy to deadly effect before you know what happened.

Maybe to gain control of your minefields and in the same turn take out your HW with 2 DKwings..

or just steal all your hard earned MCs at the worst time, right before they move in... things like that.

Or maybe just steal some fuel or something. Its definitely used.

I can certainly see the appeal of a Resolute with RGA capabilities though.

Also the appeal of towing enemy ships to awaiting Rushes as well.

The major problem is that both races don't have financial benefits... so they don't complement each other very well in that department.

10 days, 2 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Dazdya, I was using it all the time against you actually. Since your economic zone was so far from the action, I never had much use for "bum" against you. But there is no downside whatsoever at using Super Spy when arriving at a planet from deep space (and none when arriving from another planet when X is the first character of your friendly code). So you get into the habit of knowing a planet's info, especially defense posts. I can decide when to attack with Swifties against planets and when there is a SB, I can get a guess on if the player likely spent cash on fighters when I have a Resolute.

Also, and this is new with NU, you get a strange new piece of info on planets you have previous info on. By comparing Super Spy info with the previous data you can estimate how much fuel is on the surface. This is an issue since Super Spy does not differentiate between mined and unmined.

You don't really know what Super Spy is doing as the enemy because it happens while cloaked. It is still a weak ability though since SBs prevent theft, which is really dumb. Bird ships with fuel should be immune to surrender outright.

Also, the Birds are pretty strong against the Fascists, Dazdya. They are weak against really big ships, as they have no good solutions for Golems, Biocides, Annihilations, and Gorbies. IMO you took the only good option you had, and it worked. I had the fireower and the tactical advantages. But I was never going to have the resources to beat you with mine fields. My hat goes off to you for recognizing that.

I actually want to play Bird/Feds and spam empty DW hulls with Bird builds ands Fed clones. Then get the Feds to refit them and both teams go to town. The tactical advantage of so many DWs alone might be enough to lay waste to lots of different opponents. Very few players have an appreciation for all the nasty things The Birds can do when they have the upper hand because they so rarely do. But lots of Dark Wings is pretty hard to defend or attack into.

10 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Birds supplying Feds!

Way back when I was always in at least one 5 vs 5 game, one of those games we had the
Bird building darkwings and sending them to the fed. It's a blast to have an obscenely large
number of darkwings with heavy weapons.

10 days, 2 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

The DKwings biggest issue is the fuel consumption, I just started playing Birds for the first time ever, and while I appriciate teh DKwings abilities the fuel consumption is killer!

You definitely need Resolutes around and even Swifties to fuel up those gas guzzlers.

Hell I'm almost considering towing around DKwings with Neutronics :)

I agree that it is frustrating that you can't steal form a SB or at least the risk is just too great to attempt it.

You can still "BUM" a SB though without negative impact I think, well aside for the ion pulse.

There is also a negative impact of the normal super spy, in that there is a 20% chance that the enemy discovers your spies and reports it.. It would be nice if that didn't happen.

What would make super spy much more useful, and don't get me wrong, I find it very useful already, is the ability to perhaps get info on how many beams, fighters and defense the SB has.

9 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

People under estimate the fascists. In a recent game i saw them desecrate an attacking colony fleet i had hemmed in with webs at a low fuel planet. i can't remember if it was 4 or 5 glories but there was not many virgos left that weren't scrap.

9 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

jamie, that is how its done with the fascists.

Problem tho is that if you have big carriers and you are defending against fascists is that you only need one for defence with supplies and others can wait their turn in planetary warp wells and soon fascists will run out of glories for they need three for every carrier and still you will take out a viccy or two. Also laying minefields will be fun pastime for their ability to sweep is hindered while towing those poppers. After the glories are gone the party will start. Against fascists if you are already around a planet you can't afford to lose, you have already lost. Whatever happens, never let those glories ravage other than single big ships. If they have glories and viccys to take out four single big carriers, the fifth big carrier will start to gain the PBs back, and so on.

9 days, 18 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

jamie, I misread your post. The colonies were attacking. That changes things. I would need to carefully consider the defending force strength and setup, attacking a alliance so strong in defence I would need at least twice or thrice the firepower for victory, its not like I could win a war of attrition versus cloaking xtal, without having anti-cloaker capability myself. Getting stuck in web mines is definately wrong way to do it ;) It can happen tho with those D7's in xtal hands.

7 days, 16 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

Silvanos-

Privateer/E.E. is devastating for any target races without Anti-Cloaking, but it's hard to see any two man team leaving themselves no anti-cloaking.

Without Anti-cloaking, MBR/SSD is only stopped by minefields, thats not a defense I would be comfortable with.

I just robbed a SSD in a pirate game and I cringed for my enemies when I thought,,,,..what can I do with this thing? MBR/SSD is an Assassins' combo. VGA Planets is a bloody mean game.

-Star

5 days, 10 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

kosmonymous wrote:

All of that still doesn't help you when the blasters start to heat. SSD is the only one that can give pbs in fleet to fleet battles as when attacking bringing it can force your opposing carriers to right side.

===============
Could you elaborate on that?. And I assume "pbs" means priority build points?

4 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Best Alliance Pair?

chas, we were talking about what ships to steal for benefit. I argued that stealing carriers for cloning purposes do not matter much for you won't be able to clone enough of them to make a difference in the big battles and probes matter not also.

But assuming your alliance already has big carriers and so does opponent. So when you get even one SSD you can start to enter opposing starbases with fleet consisting of carriers, a torper up front and SSD and all without Kill-mission, PE or numeric friendly code (torper with numeric of course). Lets assume the opponent has a fleet waiting with similar strength and a starbase. They will need to set PE's or they lose the starbase to either torper-carrier or SSD. If they set the PE or KILL, your big carriers automatically get the left side and you will gain a victory without losing the SSD. Now, rinse and repeat. Which will lead to profit. So my opinion is that SSD could be the single game changing steal, is proven to some extent. PBP-wise you can't win carrier battles from the right.

Having even one SSD will enable your fleet to go on the offense and win the attrition. Not to mention if you use cloakers to scout SB's and when you are absolutely sure there can be no opponents you bring that SSD in alone and take the base.