Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

« Back

1682 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes ago

Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Documentation Editing Thread:

I'm using this post to document my edits. I'd like to invite other editors to do the same.

1682 days, 14 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm going to make a couple of quick style suggestions. [They're copied here from the main thread largely because this is a more appropriate place.]

(By "style", I mean methods of formatting, grammar, and punctuation. By "suggestion", I mean, "My way is right and proper". However, I'm being polite about it, so it's all good. And by "quick", I'm just plain lying.)

I'm going to propose that:
(1) We adopt the Americanized spelling of most terms.
(2) We use standard proper grammar in most cases, but err on the side of clarity when usage permits. Specifically, this permits the use of the so-called "Oxford Comma" in comma-delimited lists.
(3) We maintain the spelling errors in the game as long as they remain misspelled within the game. This includes the "Gaurdian Class". We can fix them later -- once the game has been altered.
(4) We take great care with abbreviations to ensure clarity. One instance of this would be the ambiguous "FC", which could mean either "friendly code" or "Firecloud", and has even in the past be used to represent "Falcon". I'd like to suggest that, where ambiguity is possible, we should avoid the abbreviation entirely.
(5) Short speech is powerful. We should err on the side of brevity whenever practicable. As evidence, I'd like to offer that the second sentence in this paragraph is long and boring relative to the first, and that this third verges on incomprehensible. Any such writing ought to be eliminated wherever it can be done without drastically reducing clarity.

In addition, I'd like to suggest that, rather than going off-site with email, we ought to use the Feed in a dedicated editing thread. Ideally, it would be separate from this main thread. In acknowledgement of the frustration engendered by attempting to make long posts in the "bouncy window", I propose that a text editor be used before the post is copy-pasted back into the Feed on those rare occasions when a short post just won't do.

1682 days, 14 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Intro page condensed, proofread, and clarified a bit. It looks quite nice to me.

1682 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Basic rewrite of Solar Federation overview, eliminating duplication and cleaning up grammar. I'm avoiding huge content changes here; the classic flavor of the intro has some appeal, and I'd hesitate to remove it.

1682 days, 8 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Working on Lizards. Not entirely satisfied with Solar Feds, but I've eliminated some of the worst of it.

1682 days, 8 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

what are you smoking tonite Gnerphk?

1682 days, 8 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

subscribe. Will comment later, because its' bedtime.

1682 days, 7 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

First scan and minor proof done on Birds. There's a lot of uncoordinated text here, and several non sequiturs. A lot of the basic info probably belongs here, though, so I'm planning to concentrate on improving flow on what remains.

Query: Do we wish to retain the original language of the "blurbs" insofar as is practicable? I rather like the images of the low pass in a Bird ship, the spotlight white Fed vessels, and Lizards that toss boulders around with ease and HISSSS the pants of the natives. It's a bit corny, but that's part of the charm of the original '90s docs, as I recall.

1682 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Basic scan and initial edits begun through Cyborg. It's apparent that a minor reformat of each of these will probably be needed; at present, I'll aim to do this with as few changes to content as possible. Still concentrating on the egregious for the moment.

1681 days, 21 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Crystal and Empire refined a bit; I like the format of Empire. Nice, pleasant, and no wall of text. Nice flow.

Also dipped into "Super+Star+Destroyer" subpage.

1681 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Initial proofing completed for all eleven race intro pages. I'll be going back and rewriting them again shortly, especially the early ones.

Note:
Need nested link pages for Web Mines, Aries Class Transport; desire one nested link page for each "Mission 9" racial ability (ie Dark Sense, Super Refit).

1681 days, 20 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Top page of "The Races" is ambitious, but the links are largely nonfunctional and the text is inaccessible. (Good format, though.)

I hesitate even to touch this. Moving on.

1681 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I embedded the top video instead of just linking to it on that page. Easy to hit play I think. We could do the same with the rest of the vid links if we wanted.

Also, I think we should eliminate the Player 1, Player 2, etc, stuff on that page, and just stick to the race names, since Player # doesn't apply to melee.

1681 days, 19 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I concur with your Player # assessment, Dotman.

1681 days, 14 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Added Super Refit page -- seems I stuttered and created two, but if someone wants to delete the blank one I won't cry.

1681 days, 12 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk about the Super Refit.
Two things that really should be in there.
1. Ships can move on the same turn they're refitted.
2. Any torps of the same type will be loaded onto the ship during Refit.

To jazz it up you could add something like:
"Due to the efficiency of the Federation engineers ships can still move on the same turn they're being refitted.
Additionally any torpedoes of the corresponding type will be loaded on to the ship during refitting. For example if you refit your ship with Mk7 Torpedo launchers and there are 30 Mk7 torpedoes at the starbase those 30 torpedoes will be loaded on the ship during refitting."

Or something. This just seems like one of those important details that most people don't even know about.

1681 days, 12 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

how about upgrading your existing torps on that ship too? for a nominal fee of course :-)

1681 days, 11 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Actually I was posting about things that do happen with Super Refit , not making a wish list :)

1681 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Fair enough.

I'm personally curious, never having had occasion to try: How many ships can Refit at a single station in any given turn? In what order do they refit?

1681 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

also if you refit and DMP the same turn, refit will occur first*

1681 days, 8 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

by ID, and as many as you have parts for.

1681 days, 8 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

What she said :)
Technically you can refit a whole fleet at one starbase in one turn. And arm it at the same time.

1681 days, 8 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

But does it occur in Ship ID order?

Not sure how much detail to go into for a basic blurb, but we'll see.

Thanks for the help! :o)

1681 days, 7 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

mucked about with Alchemy Ships, Supplies, Minerals and fixed the odd broken link; mucked about a bit with Friendly Codes but that's someone else's sandbox at the moment

1681 days, 1 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

super refit works in ID order. Separate for motor, beams and torps parts. Also, parts unloaded can be refitted to higher ID ships. For example, a low ID nebula can get its beams refitted to Disruptors, unload it's X-rays, which are then refitted to the higher ID Kitty... nice.

1680 days, 21 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Cool -- thanks for the info, folks. I'll modify the docs to include it.

I'm presently deep in minefield documentation and I need some info on web mines, mine sweeping, and mine scanning. The docs are just plain wrong in several places and give outdated or incorrect info in others. If anyone's bored enough, could you scan what we presently have and sing out if you see something missing or just plain wrong?

This article should have links to the others:
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/web-mines

1680 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Mine hit damage = 10000 / (hull mass + 1)
Similarly for web damage.

Web mines can be swept if the distance to the edge of the field is less than 1 ly. They can be swept from 0.9 ly’s outside the field. I believe the same is true for normal mines (i.e. the sweeping distance is 5.9 ly's), but I haven’t bothered to check it as that distance is not as crucial as it is with the webs.

1680 days, 18 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"Web Mine Damage % = 1000 / (Hull Mass)

(where Hull Mass includes the mass of weapons but not fuel or cargo)"

I was always under the impression that mine damage was calculated from hull mass , not hull+weapons mass.
Not something I've really paid attention to but it seems unlikely that weapons mass counts judging from past experience.

1680 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I think you are both correct. I know the Saggit can never ever survive a standard minehit unless it is in Lizard hands, and it's rated at 99 mass.

1680 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I removed the link from lay mines, because that link leads to mine fields. And I am not sure about how to do this.

I have also been editing cloak, but it's not going well. I am convinced that the basic structure is right, with the standard questions, but I can't get it to look right. I tried to put the questions in bold first, but it looked silly to me. Now I put them in cursive, but it's not much better. What is important to me is that the info is structured, not specifically how it looks. I would like some input on this.

1680 days, 17 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'll look at the link.

@Dazdya - You might try commenting out the questions to see how it looks. I agree that it looks a bit silly, but most (if not all) of this information is vital.

In general, structure is essential, but it mustn't interfere with narrative flow or we lose our readers. I think that might be what's happening here.

Mucking about with minefields again. If I survive I'll take another look.

1680 days, 17 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

It's the web, not a paper manual. I think you'd be surprised by the result of eliminating the questions, and making each one of your answers a one or two line blurb that gets the point across. Put this in an unordered list, and you've got your page.

Also, you never actually say that you cloak a ship by selecting the cloak mission. That should probably be the first line.

1680 days, 16 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hrm. Now, this is just an idea, gentlemen:

Perhaps we should create a brief one- or two-paragraph page on how to cloak and what it does and doesn't do, and then a deeper, more in-depth page with the details. A third tier of pages can cover in particular such peculiar elements as Cloak Intercept (and why that combat occurs in reverse order by ship ID), what breaks cloak and when, and which ships are able to cloak.

1680 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"Mine Sweep" mission activated inside the TOC.

It looks as though the "Minefields" article covers the basics on "Lay Mines", but the mission page should probably have more details on (for example) which torpedoes produce how many mines and no information on web-laying. If you're all in agreement, I'd be willing to draft such an article, though I find chart layout difficult.

On a similar note: If someone wants to insert a beam-weapon chart in the "Mine Sweep" article I won't be offended. Tag it if you're inside working so I don't overwrite you accidentally.

1680 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk I disagree again. The docs are not meant to read through. They are the place people go to look up details.

No, wait, let me rephrase:
I agree with you as far as the first-level pages are concerned. If we describe what we see in the starmap, or what planets do, or starships, then we should mostly be explaining what the variables are. However, when people read deeper, then we should be focusing on exactly how things work. And be precise.

@Dotman You are tight, very silly of me not to mention the mission. And I insist on using the questions in all missions, race abilities and ship abilities. This helps people find what they need when they are looking for a specific detail. This is not a story we are making here.

Readability is important, but it is still secondary. Information is key.

1680 days, 12 hours, 43 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm not involved in the editing. I just want to support your idea of offering different detail levels of information. With links it can be realized while maintaining a good overview and easy accessibility. At Donovan's site you could also find that technique ... the link to the formulas page.

1680 days, 11 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dazdya: I'll put it another way:

Questions are for FAQs.
Documentation is for facts.

1680 days, 10 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Oho,

> Web mines can be swept if the distance to the edge of the field is less than 1 ly. They can be swept from 0.9 ly’s outside the field

IIRC, the square that the sweeper is in must intersect with the field, even if it's only a small corner. That gives a maximum sweep distance of 0.7ly, but I don't believe it should be specified as distance, since that can be misleading. It's possible to be 0.6ly from the webmine field and not be able to sweep it.

@Gnerphk,

> Perhaps we should create a brief one- or two-paragraph page on how to cloak and what it does and doesn't do, and then a deeper, more in-depth page with the details.

I like it. The detailed information is available to anyone who wants it, but doesn't scare away the newbie.

1680 days, 10 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman The questions are just a way to structure information. If people look for specific details, they can use the questions to see immediately where it must be. That is why the qeustions need to be the same everywhere.

1680 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dazdya - I like the concept in principle, but I think everyone but you is opposed to overtly stating them in practice.

I know of a couple of cases where that style of documentation works. I don't believe this is one of them. On the other hand, for certain detailed aspects, it may be the proper solution.

And yes, I'm aware that picking and choosing the places where we apply such an approach reduces the overall impact. Nevertheless, I believe it to be sufficiently counterproductive for a majority of our topics that employing it universally here would do more harm than good. In this case I'm defining "harm" as "wall-of-text disease".

Specifically, though, I do feel that it is the proper approach to the in-depth Cloak page. I'm not sold on overtly stating the questions, but maintaining a framework is proper to such a complex issue.

Going forward, I propose that we look at the article both with and without the questions and choose at that time. In the mean while, I'll see about drafting a short, concise, basic cloak article.

1680 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

NOTICE: There are problems using the <dl> markup command (definition list). For some reason, the software places the start of the list after the TOC, but retains the indent to clear the TOC.

1680 days, 7 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

VERY basic Cloak Mission page is up, though I haven't linked it in pending suggestions, changes, and approval.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/cloak-mission

Since even the amounts of fuel consumed by Cloak changes from ship to ship, I've left everything out except what I consider the absolute essentials.

1680 days, 7 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I think it needs a bit more, but I'm not sure what (I've played Crystals and Robots).

I also think we need a naming convention for the detailed pages. In this instance, the base page is 'cloak-mission' Perhaps something like 'cloak-mission-detail' would make sense.

1680 days, 7 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Let's try to stick to that sort of thing as an ideal going forward, W, but I see no reason to impose it. Instead, let's aim for it for future pages and change to fit as and when we can.

(Otherwise, we risk modifying someone's page out from under them and breaking links unknowing.)

1680 days, 7 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I am starting to see that I am outnumbered here. Gnerphk, I'm sorry, but this cloaking page you wrote is not documentation, it's no more than fluff.

I'll sleep on this for a night, and see what I'll do later.

1680 days, 7 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dazdya - Agreed that it's a fluff page; that's by design. I'd prefer a bit more info but it's tough to know what is essential for an introductory overview.

Populated ship list in main Cloak page.

Factual query: If a ship decloaks to engage in combat, can it ever recloak that turn? My experience is limited but says "no". Confirmation or argument?

1680 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I don't know, I thought it communicated the relevant points to a new guy about what the cloak mission is.

@Joshua said something to the effect of the docs should be a window into the game for new players, with more detailed information deeper. I thought it was good for a mission introduction page or whatnot.

In that vein, I want to comment on the shiplist stuff. The shiplist is nice, and useful, and we should find a way to keep it, but its a table of data.

The ships are the coolest things in the game. If you're just discovering the game, going through and looking at all the ships, and what they do, and such, well, that's just fun. And cool. I think we need some kind of, well, fluff text essentially, about each ship, as a kind of introduction to them.

I'm not sure where this should be, and its a bit of work. I threw 6 Fed ships up on the Federation page to get an idea of what I mean. Whether it lives there or somewhere else (and I think the race introduction page is a good place for something like that), I think it'd be useful. Have a look to get an idea of what I mean, and let me know what you think! I'm not married to the copy, but wanted to give an idea of the style I was thinking.

1680 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Precisely. Wall-Of-Text.

Side note: Started work on Ion Storms; completed Advanced Cloak. Too tired to continue. Tell me what I missed or did wrong and I'll take a look tomorrow -- or you could always fix it yourself. :o)

1680 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk

The Fascists have a campaign hull, the "Deth Specula Stealth", which recloaks after engaging in combat. Other cloaking ships do not recloak if they have engaged, even with mission set to "Cloak" and having received no damage.

1679 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I could be mistaken, but from my experience it seems to be that normal cloakers will re-cloak if undamaged from combat after all ship v ship combats occur, while the Deth Specula Stealth, if undamaged during combat will re-cloak immediately following it's combat.

Stargazer out.

1679 days, 21 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

You are almost correct @Stargazer. The DS stealth's recloak only works if its mission is on intercept. It attack its intercept target, and then recloaks if able.

It's a wonderful toy against light ships. Freighters, MBRs, reptiles, patriots, it's very surgical. The moment I saw it I knew I had to research it.

1679 days, 20 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Whisperer:

"IIRC, the square that the sweeper is in must intersect with the field, even if it's only a small corner. That gives a maximum sweep distance of 0.7ly, but I don't believe it should be specified as distance, since that can be misleading. It's possible to be 0.6ly from the webmine field and not be able to sweep it."

That’s just wrong, it is the distance that matters. Let me rephrase: if (the distance to the center of the web) - (the radius of the web) < 1, the web can be swept.

The squares and intersections don’t matter. Here’s a screenshot, where my Biocide is 77.9 lys from the center of the web (and the web does not intersect the square the Bio is in) and it happily took a sweep from the web: http://imgur.com/rpCuGUk

1679 days, 20 hours, 39 minutes ago

ville kauppinen

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Are you sure Crystal did not lay more mines which Bio then happily swept ?

1679 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yes, the corresponding mine sweep message is here: http://imgur.com/IBdwJME

1679 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Johnqpublic,

> The Fascists have a campaign hull, the "Deth Specula Stealth", which recloaks after engaging in combat.

The ship feature is "recloak intercept". In addition, there's a Privateer ship with the "cloak fighter bays" feature. Combined with the two cloaking pages @Gnerphk has already completed, that's all of the ship features related to cloaking.

1679 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Oho,

Great documentation of the event. While the grid lines are difficult to see on my screen (not your fault), I can see that the square containing the Biocide does not intersect the webmine field. In addition, the minefield size, in mines, is displayed at the necessary times.

At this time, I believe that this is a bug. It could also be a rounding error. The message clearly states that the Biocide is "INSIDE" the field, when the image shows that to not be the case.

Please fill out a bug report, using the "Feedback" button at the bottom of the page. We'll see what Joshua has to say.

1679 days, 18 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I move the ship database to the new system and called it "racesheet": http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/racesheet

You'll need to refresh and you'll get it in wide mode.

It creates links for the ship special features. We will need to add those pages if they don't exist already.

1679 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Deus Ex Machina strikes again. Very nice; that's just exactly what I was hoping for.

One item at a time, we'll go through and check the sub-links.

1679 days, 17 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Joshua,

> I move the ship database to the new system and called it "racesheet": http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/racesheet

Thank you. Is this editable by us?

Also, I've never understood why the HullID is in there. Was there a reason to include that information?

1679 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

For the Chameleon Device e.g.

1679 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I've just finished several starbase-related articles, including one on Cloning.

Despite the massive amounts of research that I've done on the subject, I find myself confused (likely due to fatigue) and would welcome proofreading, comments, and suggestions on this and related articles, but especially on the subject of Cloning.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/cloning

1679 days, 9 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The order is (first build phase):

1. Normal builds - Each star base in build queue order builds a ship if:
a. a ship is ordered and
b. a valid cln command is not present.

then, after all normal build orders are executed, if there are any ship slots left:

2. The build order queue restarts building, building a ship if:
a. a valid cln command is present

(a clone can only be built after all normal build commands are executed (without advanced cloning.))

----------------------------------------------------------------

There are 2 build phases in the turn. Cloning only occurs in the first build phase. No cloning is done in the second build phase.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Since ship availability is listed in the game API, I assume you can clone any ship you cannot build THIS GAME. So, if you turn off Refinery, it is not listed as available to you in the game API and, therefore, you could clone a Refinery you get from another player (useful in alliances and teams.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ships with fcode cln will have their speed reset to zero. However, they can still be towed and/or chunneled.

-------------------------------------------------------

Btw, "Starship" is not linked.

1679 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Thanks for checking it out! I'll look through again.

Nice little tip RE the API. That may be beyond the scope of the docs, however.

1678 days, 5 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm working on adding the ship features pages that are linked to by Joshua's new Ship Database. If an old page is replaced, the contents is being copied and a message is being put into the top of the old page stating that it is deprecated.

1678 days, 5 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Joshua,

The Aries has a link to "Alchemy" instead of "Alchemy Ship". Could this please be made consistent?

1678 days, 4 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK. The base pages for all the ship features exist. I've fixed most of the links to the old pages that I could find. If more are found, they should be fixed. Also, please feel free to edit any page with a title of "No Title Yet".

On another subject, while checking for links to old pages, I found a few links to pages that don't exist. A blank page should be created for each new link. In addition to keeping the users from getting errors, it makes plain which pages need to receive content.

1677 days, 18 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Agreed, @Whisp. An impressive amount of work there, and nicely done.

We do need to be careful to avoid creating duplicate pages. At present, for example, I'm linking to the base page for each race whenever I want to reference a racial ability, since each ability is fairly exhaustively described there. It may be wise to expand on some of the more complex abilities -- especially some of the Campaign abilities -- but that's a minor quibble.

In general, when there exists an article on something like, for instance, the Cobol, there doesn't need to be a second article on the Ramscoop.

Trouble is, there's no way to sift through the mountains of pages that presently exist unless they happen to be linked through the ToC. Perhaps there's a way to create an auto-populated MASTER ToC page that we can sort by subject? Might be a useful tool.

1677 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Mucking about with Planets and planet subpages -- also, introducing typo edits wherever I happen across them. Starchart page excellent; all links should now be functional -- started a minor discussion out there if you're interested.

1677 days, 18 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> We do need to be careful to avoid creating duplicate pages.

Yes we do, but we have good control over the pages in the DB, but poor control over the pages Joshua links to from the "racesheet". This is why I created the duplicate pages. Where I could find references to the old pages, I changed them. I'll give it a week or so, then delete the content of the old pages.

The ability to delete pages is becoming more important.

1677 days, 17 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Agreed. For the moment, I'm using a title like "Please Delete Me" for anything with no links. That should be a hint for people to not use it, even if they can't actually delete it.

1677 days, 4 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

i vote for ATTERCOB.....he is pretty slick with the chunnel. (much to my chagrin.)

1676 days, 19 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

My experience is limited to Classic, Standard, and Stellar Cart, but I'll go over what we have and see what I can add.

1676 days, 18 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I looked through the Cyborg Leaderboard, and the only two players I found in the top 25 with both active Cyborg games and the Dungeon Class Stargate were Ted and Aegir. Whatever we do with the Chunnel docs should be verified by one of them.

Also, I'd like to see a page on Chunnel Strategies and Tactics. All 5 of the pages referenced above could link to it.

1676 days, 17 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I'd like to see a page on Chunnel Strategies and Tactics. All 5 of the pages referenced above could link to it.

Of course, I'd like to eventually see pages on Strategies and Tactics for other features, like Pillage, Rob, Minefields, Web mines, Ground Assault, etc., but I expect all of these higher-level pages to be a while in their creation. I see this sort of page as helping to fulfill Joshua's request for pages to help the more advanced players.

1676 days, 17 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

This morning, I realized that we need a better way to track which pages link to which other pages. I'll be working on this today, which means I'll be briefly and repeatedly editing almost everything. If you're editing something, please put a comment in when you start and remove it when you're done. This is VERY important today, and until I finish this particular task.

1676 days, 17 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yes, I was about to comment on this last. While I have no personal investment in eliminating "Loki" and "Cobol", for example, I do link to them from the individual race pages.

What do you think -- comments for the nested pages? Designated subpages, I try to always keep a link at the bottom that returns them to the parent, but Lokis and Fighters and such are referenced from multiple pages.

1676 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

With regard to guides: At present, I simply link to offsite guides. I've written three on the Borg for Planets Mag, for example, that may be of use here.

Incidentally: I have no wish for my guides (which are all copyrighted, by the way) to be transplanted here. So long as the Mag stands, I like where they sit. Likewise, there are hundreds of guides already written by other people, and given the complexity of obtaining permission (and the unnecessary nature of that task) I still feel external links are the appropriate method of referencing them.

(Clarification: Some of my external content is documentation. I will not be copying that either, but I may be rewriting some things.)

1676 days, 17 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The first thing I'll be doing today is updating the formatting of the Host Order. There are several groups that should be on a second level in the list. I think this will make it easier to understand.

Opinions?

1676 days, 17 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I don't think the original Host Order should be touched at all. I feel quite strongly about this.

Instead, if you feel this is a useful bit of documentation, I'd advise you create an article entitled "About The Host Order" (or something similar).

This is THE most important bit of documentation that we have, and accuracy and precision here trumps readability by an A.U. This is almost the only place where this can be said to hold true.

1676 days, 17 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> What do you think -- comments for the nested pages? Designated subpages, I try to always keep a link at the bottom that returns them to the parent, but Lokis and Fighters and such are referenced from multiple pages.

I was going to add a comment at the top. The Return you've been putting at the bottom could get ugly when there are several references to a page.

I wonder if we can get a trivial JavaScript (like the 'onclick' that DotMan used above) for the back button.

1676 days, 17 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Let's stick with comments for the now, and I'll try to keep the "Back" button for strictly single-nested subpages except where clarity demands it. Agreed?

1676 days, 17 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> This is THE most important bit of documentation that we have, and accuracy and precision here trumps readability by an A.U. This is almost the only place where this can be said to hold true.

I agree. Please have a look at http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/host-order-new

The old list has items 1-117. The new list has items 1-94.

I think that Joshua might be able to make a few more groups, further improving the readability, all without sacrificing accuracy.

1676 days, 17 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Agreed. I like what you're doing with it.

(Incidentally: I've always wondered why the 3rd Loki decloak was depreciated. It's not as though a newly-built Loki, refueled by a starbase, would be unable to Pulse on its first turn. Was it a balance issue?)

1676 days, 17 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

A couple of minor-ish things regarding the host order:

- Deprecated. Not depreciated. That word has always been wrong in the host order; the 3rd Loki decloak should be marked deprecated. That said, I don't recall why this is the case, I think something was moved around in the order that made it not necessary back when.

- Since the 3rd Loki decloak is deprecated, we should simply remove it from the host order.

- Should we still be calling this host order? Imagine a new player just coming to Nu. What is a host order? Is there better phrasing? Maybe Order of Actions, or something along those lines? I know, I know, historically, this is 'feels' a little wrong to change, but it may be slightly confusing.

- Colonise mission. It's no longer called Colonize on Nu, it's Land and Disassemble, we should change the host order to say that.

1676 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Depreciated? This isn't accounting and we're not dealing with long-term assets. If it's been deprecated, I'll comment it out (I assume it was left in because it might be added back in). I'll also update the Colonize mission.

1676 days, 16 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Done and put into production. The temporary page has been marked for deletion.

Back to chasing links.

1676 days, 16 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK. I'm officially tired of ASCII tables. If a table is appropriate, and you don't know how to do it properly (with the TABLE tag), please feel free to ask me. It's not difficult, just new to some people.

1676 days, 16 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The third Loki decloak is definitely _not deprecated_ - it decloaks just fine!! (There's a discussion somewhere between Jobo and Joshua, after which Joshua re-enabled it, but apparently did not update the docs.. :) )

1676 days, 16 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Perhaps I'm being unnecessarily conservative, but I would urgently oppose any renaming of the Host Order. While new players might require some explanation, there's no need to confuse our veterans by renaming it.

Besides, it's not inaccurately named; that phase of gameplay is still handled by a host server.

1676 days, 16 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hrm. Let's set up a test of it, then -- good info, Oho. That sort of thing is much appreciated.

1676 days, 16 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Oho,

> The third Loki decloak is definitely _not deprecated_ - it decloaks just fine!!

It's back in.

1676 days, 15 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

For the record: http://planets.nu/discussion/why-is-loki-third-decloak-deprecated

And it can be seen in action here: http://planets.nu/#/sector/98661, Lizards, Turn 10.

1676 days, 15 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Excellent! Just the sort of research I like, Oho!

1676 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> If a table is appropriate, and you don't know how to do it properly (with the TABLE tag), please feel free to ask me.

Alternatively, look at the following. It has just about everything that we're likely to need in a table.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/weapon-destruction-power

1676 days, 14 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK. Do we want to put any information into the Host Order about WHY there's a 3rd decloak for Lokis?

1676 days, 14 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Never "why", not in the Host Order. Never explain.

The whole purpose is precise documentation, and it's essential that it remain as pure as possible. We can do other pages on "how" or "why" if we like, but it would be a mistake to even link them in here. Host Order is the only part of the docs that is completely non-subjective.

1676 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

On the other hand, a running commentary would be interesting, and of use.

I could see a way clear to permitting a duplicate Host Order with nested pages giving a breakdown of certain steps, possibly with links to guides. Minelaying, for instance, needs some more explanation; it's good to know that it takes place in order by ship number (we presume, though it might also contain a sub-loop for player number), and that laid fields will not annihilate one another until after Sweeping is complete -- and then, it's good to document in which order it will happen. (I suspect it's by ascending minefield number, but I really have no clue.)

But there we have two excellent examples of why we DON'T do this. I've been playing for decades; I've written guides and taken part in learned debates; I've conversed at length with other skilled veterans -- and I couldn't tell you in which precise order minefields are laid.

The Host Order is the one item of documentation that's absolutely rock-solid. We must take care not to write anything about it -- or remove anything -- that's not equally certain.

1676 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Query on Friendly Codes: I'm fairly sure that some keyboard characters cannot be used, just as certain characters cannot be employed in ship names. Does anyone have any thoughts to add to this?

1676 days, 14 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Never "why", not in the Host Order. Never explain.

This makes sense, in order to maintain the objectivity of the document.

> We can do other pages on "how" or "why" if we like, but it would be a mistake to even link them in here.

I think this would be the BEST place to link them in. If a player wants more details, and the page has been written, why make them dig for it? Just link it in and be done with it.

> I could see a way clear to permitting a duplicate Host Order

I strongly disagree. That would make TWO documents that have the host order in them. With this sort of documentation (HTML), it's usually best to only have a specific piece of detailed information provided in one place, and link to it from as many sources as appropriate.

> it's good to know that it takes place in order by ship number

I believe that order information should also be in the host-order document. I know that mines are laid and swept/scooped in ascending ship order. I don't know the order that the minefields are destroyed.

1676 days, 14 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Query on Friendly Codes: I'm fairly sure that some keyboard characters cannot be used

I took a quick trip through the code, and didn't see any such checking. I would like to suggest that you add that question to the list of questions for Joshua (http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/questions-for-joshua) that I recently created.

1676 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

As regards Host Order: I'm unlikely to be flexible or convinced on this. Two pages is as far as I'll bend.

Of course, I have no designated authority -- but if I did, I'd use it here. Instead, I'll just make my opinion very clear: I consider "Host Order" sacrosanct, and not to be modified with opinion, conjecture, deduction, or outside links.

I have no such compunctions about any other page.

1676 days, 13 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I saw the "questions for Joshua" page. Good idea -- let's set the boss to work too. :o)

1676 days, 13 hours, 41 minutes ago

bolkzyn

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@questions for Joshua:

1. Do planets still have the ability to send out an ion pulse to uncloak cloaked ships in orbit around it? This is referenced in the ion-pulse page.

Colony
From: New Georgia ID#xx
Distress CALL! We have found spies on the planet. They have CHANGED the planet's friendly code! The code is now: bum
Using defense outposts to produce an ion discharge overload to decloak all ships in orbit. Ten outposts sacrificed.

VCR in one of my Games.

1676 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> I saw the "questions for Joshua" page.

I had concerns about balancing interruptions to Joshua against getting information for the documents. The way I set that page up, questions won't be lost/forgotten, and we'll know what pages the answer applies to. Additionally, Joshua can answer whenever he has a few minutes to spare.

WRT links on the Host Order page, I don't think we're likely to agree. Opinions of others are welcome. With luck we'll come up with a solution that generates minimum unhappiness.

1676 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Bolkzyn,

Thank you for the information. I put the answer into the document, and I'll make any necessary updates to the referencing pages when I get a chance.

1676 days, 13 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Always delighted to get clarifications from the rest of the Feed folks. By the way -- I've answered (at least partially) my own by going into my own history -- some characters do vanish, but most stay from turn to turn.

As for agreement: I've always believed that, given our constraints and position, any serious disagreement that cannot be solved through discussion should be set aside for adjudication. I'm rather anxiously awaiting the opinions of the other editors on this particular subject.

1676 days, 11 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I think it's logical to assume that the host order page is mostly used by people who already know the game.
I check it out occasionally to either confirm or deny my memory. Having it cluttered with foot notes and/or explanations would be hugely inconvenient.

1676 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Regarding questions for Joshua.
Borg assimilation is 100% i.e. 1 clan will turn 1 native.
Structure decay is 3 per turn. It used to be 1 but it was changed some months back.
Just went back and looked at a few games to confirm this.
Admittedly my borg games are old but I think if it has been changed in the mean time we'd have had borg players screaming bloody murder in the Feed :)7

As for the UFO's I assume it's safe to say they don't exist in the current incarnation.

1676 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Siggi,

Thank you for the information. I'll merge it as appropriate.

I believe the UFO entry was Tim's way of handling certain type of glitch.

WRT host order, the outstanding question is whether or not the name should link to pages providing more detailed information. No additional clutter is currently being considered, except possibly the internal order (by ship ID, by planet ID, etc.).

1676 days, 11 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Don't be so sure guys. The Echo cluster is a big place and there can be very weird things out there.... : )

1676 days, 10 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Ville, for instance.

1676 days, 9 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

(Have you ever seen his thumbnail picture? Now THAT'S disturbing.)

Combat is begun. Game Setup Options has been addressed but abandoned partway; I lack the expertise to make the documentation definitive. Of course, as often as we change things around here, once it's fixed it'll probably already be obsolete... ;o)

I don't like the ship pics in the race guides. Let's stick them on subpages and go from there. They'll likely fit better anyway -- especially if you chain the subpages.

Coming right along, folks.

1676 days, 7 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Why don't you like ship pics in the race overview page? The ships are by a wide margin the most interesting things to noobs. In many ways they define the way a race is played. They're at least as integral as race advantages!

1676 days, 7 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'll grant that, but it makes the page tough to scan. Readability is key for me.

They are evocative, though; you're right there. Hmm... Maybe featuring one with a link to a complete list for each race?

1676 days, 7 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Perhaps. I don't think it affects readability at all though. This is the web, not a manual. We need more pictures, not less (IMHO of course).

1676 days, 7 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

In fact, expanding on the idea of what new people should see first, why are races and ships so far down on the menu? They should definitely be at the top! Imagine a new player going to the how to play section to learn a bit about the game. Who wants to start with the dashboard and the starmap?

1676 days, 7 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Although I have to say, your idea of a featured ship is growing on me (it took a whole ten minutes). That may be the way to go. A teaser, if you will.

1676 days, 6 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

:o) I'm with you there -- the technical stuff should be further down. But I'm concentrating first on filling the pages we have -- it's a tough pull. Our "Combat" page is a disgrace, but it's better than what we had (which was NOTHING).

I think it makes the page tough to read because it makes the scrollbar harder to use. If every page were long, that would be one thing, but these are already walls of text -- I'd be pulling stuff off them and slapping up subpages if I had the time (and if I were getting paid for this; tough to keep motivation high for a volunteer gig).

1676 days, 5 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Readability is key for me.

One of several key characteristics. It also has to be informative and accurate, and it needs to make players WANT to read more. This will be a tricky balance, but I think we can do it.

1675 days, 17 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Joshua,

I have created a 'NewPage' document that I'd like to be the template for new pages. Is it possible to copy the title and contents of this page into new pages as they're created (via the 'add' button)?

This does a few things for us.

1. It makes sure that a user has a quick and easy way back to the calling page.

2. It's more polite than a blank page.

3. It helps to standardize the documentation.

4. It can be modified as necessary to implement new documentation standards.

1675 days, 16 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I'll see about using it going forward. (I've got enough to do without going back.)

Not a problem. I'll add it as I document the links. I've added it to all the pages I worked on yesterday. This change removed some links, simplifying the page calling tree.

1675 days, 16 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

A couple of things:

- I don't think you guys really want this back button text at the bottom of the page. It does the same thing that the back button on the browser does, which everyone universally knows how to use. From a webdev standpoint, it's really redundant, and I don't think we need it. I think its something that looked like it solved a problem (get back to a calling page, when you don't know what that calling page was), that was never really a problem. I think this illustrates that it wasn't a problem to begin with. More useful would probably be a link to the page's parent, ie, go up a layer. But even this isn't really done anymore, we would be doing it simply because we don't have good js/css control over the menu to illustrate better what page we're actually on in the documentation.

- I reread the initial post about this documentation, and realized this is also being maintained as a static set of pages at this link:

http://help.planets.nu

Keep in mind when working for readability, etc, as its not clear which one will end up being used more, and that page has a larger layout. Also, the original post (http://planets.nu/#/post/planets-nu-documentation-volunteers-needed) talks about this eventually being used as context-sensitive docs in the UI (ie, possibly tooltips, or click on something in the client and up pops the page), so the idea of short, readable initial pages is pretty important.

1675 days, 14 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I've always viewed a built-in "Back" button to be essential for proper HTML coding and site construction. I will grant, however, that it might be considered archaic usage.

Nevertheless, these links are once again useful given that people may attempt to access these pages on portable devices, the which may well lack some functionality.

As such, I suggest we continue to employ "Back" buttons. What's more, I'd like to suggest that we test the new method on other platforms to make sure that it works.

However, these subjects are technical in nature, and my expertise lies in writing and in minor details of gameplay. Therefore, if the considered opinion of the technical editorial staff is against me on this, I'll bow to their superior knowledge -- just as I would expect another to respect my expertise in my own fields.

(At present, I'll use whatever method seems to work best.)

With regard to short readable pages: I'll do what I can in that respect.

1675 days, 13 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Here's my take on this:

1. The 'back' button works in the static pages (I assume they're regenerated a few times a day).

2. It adds a single word/paragraph at the bottom of the page. I don't consider this to be enough extra to cause a readability problem.

3. Even with that extra word/paragraph, the menu (toc) is almost always longer than the page text, so we're not making the pages any longer.

> it's really redundant

Yes it is. This is similar to the menu you often see at the top of a web page being mirrored at the bottom of the page. In today's Internet, redundancy is normal.

> and I don't think we need it

We don't NEED it, but I don't see that it hurts anything. It's better than the nest of back buttons that used to be there on some pages.

> I think its something that looked like it solved a problem

What I did ACTUALLY solved a problem. The known calling pages were individually listed at the bottom of the page, increasing the maintenance load, especially when adding links to a page. I combined them all into a single link that resolved this. If you're of the opinion that any sort of 'back' links didn't solve a problem, read on.

> More useful would probably be a link to the page's parent, ie, go up a layer.

Many of the pages have multiple paths to them. As an example, if there are 6 pages (I don't know how many there really are) that have links to "supplies", which is the "parent"?

> I'd like to suggest that we test the new method on other platforms to make sure that it works.

It works fine on IE11, Firefox, Silk (Kindle) and my Windows phone. Please feel free to test others.

> Therefore, if the considered opinion of the technical editorial staff is against me on this, I'll bow to their superior knowledge

I've written my share of technical documentation and web pages. To me, a minimum bottom-of-page navigation is useful, but not critical. If we're going to have one, it needs to be simple, flexible, compact and functional. What I created satisfies those requirements.

1675 days, 12 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

In keeping with your earlier suggestion, @Dotman, I've altered the ToC to put Combat near the top.

I don't intend this to be the permanent structure of the ToC, but it's useful to get the mind working: What should go where?

Since "Races" is so very very long, it ought properly to be near the bottom.

"Dashboard" and "Starmap" should be near each other.

"Starbases" looks nice below "Planets", but "Starships" could go almost anywhere.

Finally, it might be nice to categorize the loose pages. Any thoughts on that?

Let's discuss things here before we make the changes; ToC is sufficiently universal that even I, the classical arrogant writer, would pause before making any drastic changes.

1675 days, 12 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

What is the status of the "building-starship-hulls" page? Will it be around for a while (worth putting in the links), or are you trying to eradicate it?

1675 days, 12 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> What should go where?

I gave my opinion on this earlier, in the other thread:

> After the intro items, there should be Races, Planets, Native races, Starbases and Starships, then the hard-to-classify pages (host order, military score, etc.).

Obviously any new documentation groups would have to be merged into this list.

> Since "Races" is so very very long, it ought properly to be near the bottom.

I commented in the other thread that it would be better if it were smaller. Many of the entries in that section don't have links, and never will.

> Finally, it might be nice to categorize the loose pages. Any thoughts on that?

I think that most of them will fall into place, as the documentation becomes more complete. Any page that's loose on the toc and has links to it should probably be removed from the toc.

1675 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Regarding the back button: @Whisperer asked what the parent of 'Supplies' is. It doesn't have one right now, but it needs to. All of the pages should be organized in a logical hierarchy; this makes it possible to navigate inline, which is what you're really after here. Just because 5 other pages link to Supplies, doesn't mean Supplies shouldn't exist itself under 'Planets'.

We need inline navigation. We're neglecting one of the use cases here: in-client help screens, probably via a pop-up browser window (or js generated pop-up window). In all likelihood, this window will not have the menu; it will simply be the page, to keep its size down. In this page, the back button will not function (on the first popup), and the user will have no way to navigate to other pages.

I propose we use the old fashioned technique of having each page list its position in the menu at the top. For instance, the top of the Mine Sweep Page, the first line would be:

Starships > Missions > Mine Sweep

where both Starships and Missions are links to those super pages. If you're on the Missions page, presumably it already has links to its sub-pages in the text of the page. This will allow navigation without the menu from the in-game client.

Secondly, yes, you eliminated some maintenance by removing the linked from pages and adding the 'Back' text, but I think we lost out on a really useful feature. We probably don't need every linked from page listed, but we certainly would like some 'Related Topics' links at the bottom of a lot of pages. I could come up with a bunch of examples, but I'm sure you all can to. We probably want that.

I guess what I'm saying is that on the regular web, the back text is redundant; I know of no website that uses it. For the use case of in-client help, we may actually want it, so it should perhaps stay; but its insufficient, and we need the inline menu structure.

None of this needs done right now; it can be done semi automated when the page structure is set. But I think the abandonment of related topics links is a mistake.

1675 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Where I've found it applicable, I've nested "Related Pages" (though usually called something different) above the "Back" button. It seems to work fine.

One difficulty that I would mention about having strict parent-child relationships is that some don't fit easily into a single category. "Battle Order" is probably more a Combat article than it is a Friendly Code article, but it's a child of both. There are likely better examples, but I'm writing them right now, so I don't really have the inclination to list them.

1675 days, 12 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

The "related pages" section hasn't been removed. Where I found them, I left them in. This is NOT the same as the nest of 'back' buttons.

> I propose we use the old fashioned technique of having each page list its position in the menu at the top.

That's not a bad idea (I've seen it used where a manual is put on-line), but the structure needs to be finished and verified before it can be done. For those pages with multiple parent pages, we'd need to determine which one is the Primary. Of course, each item would need to be a link.

1675 days, 12 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Request for comments - updated climate page.

1675 days, 12 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"hulls" page merge is still ongoing, but I think I've got most of it. I'm fiddling with things as they get added, and the big thing I'm still waiting on is "components" pages. Once the docs are finished, I'll go back and do a final review.

I've discovered a flaw in the auto "back" button -- when I'm deep in a nest of pages, all it does is refer back to the last one I was at. A sub-sub-page then loops back into only the sub-page and there's no automatic way to get back to the main page.

For the moment, then, I'm adapting my "Going Forward" method to whatever seems most appropriate on a case-by-case basis. It's going to be highly unlikely that I'll use anything other than "back" on a bottom-tier page and equally unlikely that I'll use "back" on a mid-level parent-and-child page.

Until we have complete agreement, then, I'd appreciate it if any pages that I'm working on, going forward, are left unmodified from the above general rule of thumb. But that's just a request for a courtesy that, I'm sure, would be observed automatically, and it probably could go without saying.

1675 days, 12 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Modification of previous: Rather than creating a nest of "Back" links, I'll simply introduce in-text links wherever practicable. Should keep things simple and preserve "Back" button utility.

1675 days, 11 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> I've discovered a flaw in the auto "back" button -- when I'm deep in a nest of pages, all it does is refer back to the last one I was at. A sub-sub-page then loops back into only the sub-page and there's no automatic way to get back to the main page.

That may be a limitation, but it's not a flaw. It works exactly as a 'back' button should, moving you back to the page you came from.

1675 days, 11 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Whisperer: Agreed on all points. We'll do it at the end.

And yes, each page should have only one parent. We'll determine which should be primary. It will become apparent for the most part the obvious choice, I believe.

1675 days, 11 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'll accept the term "limitation", but I'll still correct for it when necessary. As above, though, I'll try to do it in-text so as to maintain standard page formatting.

1675 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Query:
Is the "Fighters" page to be a child of "Starbases", "Starships", or "Combat"?

Usually, I agree: It will be apparent what goes where. Occasionally, though, there may be some doubt. I'd like to maintain flexibility where practicable.

My general rule of thumb on the subject: "Every general statement is wrong. (Including this one.)"

1675 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

> It will become apparent for the most part the obvious choice, I believe.

While the grammar is very wrong, I was able to figure it out, and I agree.

@Gnerphk,

Sounds good.

1675 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Re: the climate page. Rebels and Colonies can support a small outpost on desert worlds like the Robots and Fascists. I believe this is largely undocumented. I guess that's what we're doing!

1675 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

And not to get off on a tangent, but I don't think I've actually violated any grammatical rule with that sentence!

1675 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Advise inserting a link to the offsite "Planets Calculator" at the bottom. It's amazingly valuable when working with populations, and after having used it extensively for years, I've never found an error (except for one which was corrected before I could complain about it).

You know how much of a detail-oriented pain I can be, so you'll understand the true value of that endorsement. :o)

1675 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Is the "Fighters" page to be a child of "Starbases", "Starships", or "Combat"?

I think the primary parent is starbases, as every race can make them there. Some races can also create them on carriers, but not all, so starship should have a link, but shouldn't be primary. Both carriers and starbases can store/use them. Combat is how they're used (both from carriers and starbases), so it should have a link, but not be primary.

1675 days, 11 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

WRT the climate page, I'll make the suggested changes.

The change I wanted verified was the use of degrees W.

1675 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

For whoever describes the RGA mission, a good source of information is: http://planets.nu/#/activity/1724078

1675 days, 4 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Minor spot revisions. Abandoning (for the night) a complete revision and merge/redivision of the multiple Weapons articles. If anyone else feels like meddling, here's a quick description of my quandry:
(1) Weapons applies equally to planets/starbases and starships, and is essential also for starship construction.
(2) Certain sub-topics, such as component cost, are less applicable to combat but essential for starbases and construction.
(3) The end-result articles need to seamlessly integrate into the Combat Basics article that I'm still drafting.
(4) We presently have at least seven pages with redundant information on the subject. We will need several, and some redundancy may be preferable to shard pages on sub-sub-topics.

Due to (3), it's probably wisest not to touch this mess at all, but I figured I'd put my thoughts out there in case someone wants to rush in where angels couldn't be bothered to tread.

1675 days, 3 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

>> This morning, I realized that we need a better way to track which pages link to which other pages.

> I finished 43 of these yesterday. That leaves about 100 to go.

Another 50 pages done today. One more solid day of editing and the page references will be done. That will allow us to come up with the structure described by @Dotman above.

1675 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I've noticed #4, but I don't have the time to work on it.

1674 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes ago

kelmain

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

You guys are something else. And by something else I mean Awesome!

1674 days, 9 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Eibon.

A star cluster has two parts. It has a core, which is a bunch of stars with a TON of radiation, and it has a radiation shell. The tidal forces in the core are enough to tear a ship apart, and the extremely high radiation would kill the crew, even with radiation shielding.

The radiation shell is a slightly more hospitable area. The radiation is high, but the tidal forces are non-destructive.

1674 days, 9 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

That entire page is an image. I can break the image up and build a new style page from it. I need to figure out how to get the images to Joshua to be hosted.

1674 days, 9 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I sent the four extracted and edited images to you via email.

1674 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

And the page is up, awaiting the images.

1674 days, 7 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

You can reference the images as is. Go to the old page, right click on an image, and select 'Copy image Location'. This is where it's hosted, and needs put in the img src. For instance, the green guys going to the nu logo, is at:

http://planets.nu/_library/2011/1/how-planets-works-F2-b6de6103df10.jpg

1674 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Oh wait, I see what you mean. Try these:

http://planets.nu/_library/2015/1/nugame1.jpg
http://planets.nu/_library/2015/1/nugame2.jpg
http://planets.nu/_library/2015/1/nugame3.jpg

1674 days, 6 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The images I sent to Gnerphk were corrected. They refer to planets.nu, not vgaplanets.nu.

1674 days, 5 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Not sure Joshua talks to me any more than to anyone else, mate, but we'll see what he says.

1674 days, 4 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Did some work on Combat, but that's still in process. Refined Starships and Starbases a bit, messed around with Weapons a fair amount, revised the ToC, and generally stuck my big editing thumb in everywhere.

While I'm working on Combat, someone could jump in and document the Dashboard and all of its features. I wouldn't mind. Just a quick blurb on everything is all we really need; nothing in-depth, so long as it describes the display and the functions.

"Changing Colors" on the Starmap is also open, and some of the Starships details pages as well.

Bear in mind, I'll get to them all eventually, so if you're tied up, don't stress.

I'll be messing about with Weapons and related articles, doing merging and cross-linking, and I'll tune the ToC when I'm finished with that so it reflects the changes.

Is anyone planning to finish up the "List of Starships", or has that been overtaken by events? For the moment, I've subbed it out with the master ship list, since that's authoritative and complete, but we might want a tree with subpages, and perhaps even a one-leaf-per-ship end format. (Don't look at me to compose them, though.)

1673 days, 19 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Is anyone planning to finish up the "List of Starships", or has that been overtaken by events?

What needs to be done with it? IIRC, all it needed was to have the Campaign ships added.

> we might want a tree with subpages, and perhaps even a one-leaf-per-ship end form

That would be good. Those same subpages could be linked to from the 'racesheet' and from each race's list of ships.

1673 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I found some information on startrek.com about the general characteristics of the races. I think that some information derived from that site should be added, to allow players to role-play their race, if they wish.

http://www.startrek.com/database_article/borg
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/gorn
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/klingons
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/orions
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/romulans
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/tholians

1673 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> revised the ToC

It looks better, but I think the overall order needs to be improved (see my ToC order comments about two days ago). Also, there are still several third-level items that I'm not sure belong in the top-level ToC. Our primary fight is with overall text width here (the secondary fight is with length of the menu - I'd like to see it fit on a single screen). The more space we can save in the side menu (ToC), the more space we have for the document text. I think we want to look into reducing the size of some of the page titles as well.

Does anyone know why Military Score is in the Starchart section? That seems wrong, but I'm not asking that it be moved at this time, just the reasoning.

1673 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Regarding the military score, that's got to be a mistake; my thoughts are it should be under Scoreboard (scoreboard as parent), probably referenced also from win condition. I don't think it needs to be on the side menu, though.

1673 days, 16 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yeah; didn't catch that.

I won't be doing any major edits for some hours yet, so feel free to fiddle with that if you like.

Generally agreed as to the general order of ToC (as you can see from my comments), but I've got a slightly different idea myself based on what @Dotman had to say -- we want something exciting at the top. We also want meta-articles where they're easily found, and I don't object to a little redundancy there.

So... Races or Combat at the very top, inder Intro, is what I was thinking, and Meta at the very bottom. Perhaps the interface items should go just above that, as (I believe) you want, @Whisperer, and that should let the other items fall into place logically. So -- what's on top? That's my question now.

1673 days, 1 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Excellent! It's a killer poster on its own. I was thinking a subpage off Intro.

1673 days, 1 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Right; it's in. That was easy enough for me. Thanks for doing the hard labor, folks.

Speaking of hard labor: Is there an easy way to collapse a list? The ToC would take up less space were it dynamic, but then again it would also take up far more server-level storage and processing unless it's strictly user-side.

I've got a long list of factual errors that I'll be addressing today. If you're working on any documentation pages that presently exist, please tag them at the top when you first get in.

1673 days, 0 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

ToC modified -- but this time, it's not a permanent change. I've linked the major ship abilities directly into the ToC for ease of access. When I'm through, I'll likely file them all under "Ship Abilities" and remove them from the ToC.

It would be convenient to have a second "Master" ToC, along the lines of an old-style sitemap, but limited to the Docs. It would be nice to have a graphical representation of parent-child relationships (and, incidentally: I'm not convinced "Fighters" belongs as a sole Starbases child. Another topic for later, though -- and irrelevant.)

1672 days, 21 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

There are relatively easy ways to collapse and expand a list. It's unclear how much functionality we have in this regard due to the way Joshua serves up the files.

I'll have a look and see if there's something easy we can do, there almost certainly is.

Also, I agree on the Master ToC file; we could just have a file that isn't referenced by any of the others (for now), or we could fileshare an excel file, or even better use one of the online mind-mapping or viz tools to do this, makes moving things around easier. I suppose sticking with a file not referenced, on the admin page, is probably best for sharing right now.

1672 days, 19 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I had a bit of spare time last night, so I did some more editing on the page references. I found one page where someone had put "et cetera" at the end of one of the lists. This is BAD. The short-term purposes of these lists are to locate unreferenced pages, and to allow Dotman to work on putting together an overall structure, but that's not the end of it.

Over time, the documentation will change. We don't know how it will change, or what it will change into, just that change is inevitable. Tracking the page references will simplify these changes.

I know that it can be a pain to document changes, but it's a pain that will have a return. Please update called pages as you make new references to them.

1672 days, 18 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> ToC modified -- but this time, it's not a permanent change. I've linked the major ship abilities directly into the ToC for ease of access. When I'm through, I'll likely file them all under "Ship Abilities" and remove them from the ToC.

I needed something similar, so I used the admin interface to create a "test" page, and I now use it for all such changes.

> It would be convenient to have a second "Master" ToC, along the lines of an old-style sitemap, but limited to the Docs. It would be nice to have a graphical representation of parent-child relationships.

That will be one of the results of the reference lists I'm working on. Of course, the page will only be able to show the primary reference, and not all the references.

1672 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I added a "Wish List" to the end of the "Questions for Joshua" page.

1672 days, 17 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Here's my first pass at the Master ToC. I put the order into what I think the average new player (not VGAP transplant) would be most interested in. It's missing most of the low-level details.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/MasterToC

1672 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm currently working on a page that describes HTML editing, with the appropriate modifications for use in the Planets.nu documentation system. In addition, I'm trying to provide information that will simplify the future internationalization effort. Finally, this page is describing some of the formatting that should NOT be used, primarily saying that the construction should be used with caution, or shouldn't be used at all.

This is still quite sparse, and I'll be spending much of today filling it in.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/EditingHTML

If anyone has comments, please feel free to make them.

1672 days, 16 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Added a bit about comments at the end. Looks good!

1672 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

> Added a bit about comments at the end. Looks good!

It got lost as I was actively editing the document. I'll add something about comments, as they're very important.

1672 days, 16 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

No worries; I was going to recommend doing it, then I realized it would take a minute to just do it myself!

1672 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

Comments are back in.

1672 days, 15 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Whisperer - I'd rather leave out the startrek race descriptions. I am hoping 2015 may be the year we start to break from the sci-fi connections and start building the unique story of the Echo Cluster and it's inhabitants.

1672 days, 15 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

now that is an interesting statement!

1672 days, 14 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/EditingHTML

Everything except Tables is ready for review. I'll be working on tables, so please provide feedback, and don't try to edit the doc.

1672 days, 14 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Joshua,

> I am hoping 2015 may be the year we start to break from the sci-fi connections and start building the unique story of the Echo Cluster and it's inhabitants.

OK. Would you care to provide information on the attitudes of the various races, so that the players can roleplay if they wish?

1672 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I would like to do that for sure. If you guys want to work up some descriptions based on what we know about them that would be great.

1672 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Now, see, THAT is where @Whisperer and I differ. He requests pertinent information; I see a gratuitous misuse of "it's".

It does seem evident, though, that we'll continue to prosper here just so long as our success doesn't attract the greed of lawyers. The race and ship names are spoofs, of course, and so long as humor protects us we're in the right -- but if we grow successful, what do right and wrong matter to corporations and to firms of corporate lawyers? So what if we win the lawsuits if we need to fight lawsuits?

(No, I'm not employed by Joshua. I'm one of us, the players.)

1672 days, 7 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Something's just broken one heck of a lot of links. I find that vexing. I plan to spend the next few hours fixing them.

1671 days, 20 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

So we've got two excellent Leaderboard articles in need of either merging or nesting (and a bit of proofing, which I'm doing right now). Does anyone have a plan for these that I'd be messing with if I figured out a way to deal with them? I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

1671 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

What are the articles you'll be working on?

I created the "leaderboard-details" article to keep the calculations out of the main "leaderboard" article. It also helps to avoid the wall-of-text problem that many of the articles would come up against if they weren't broken out.

1671 days, 19 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Makes good sense, actually. I rather like that arrangement.

I'm planning to finish proofing those two -- had to run a turn; got distracted -- and then I'll be browsing through several Combat and Starship missions. There's still some bad links lying around and I've been patching them as I go, so ToC will be in process -- but I'll leave my tag on top when I'm inside.

1671 days, 19 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Joshua,

I updated the Wish List in the Questions page.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/questions-for-joshua

1671 days, 17 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

You put a comment into the friendly-codes page that needs clarification. Could you please provide some additional information on it?

Thanks.

1671 days, 17 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Done.

Moved on from Leaderboard into Missions, but may fiddle a bit with the Win Conditions / Leaderboard relationship; the two might want to be linked, and I'm considering how and the whys. Working mainly on primary ship missions.

I'm also puzzling over the whethers, wheres, and whys of "Mission 9" documentation (Super Refit, Web Mining, Build Fighters). At present, documentation is mixed between race pages and (where the mission is complex) child pages, and that seems to fit the bill nicely. However, it strikes me that some of these less-documented missions ought to have subpages even if they're not referenced in case they need to be -- and that they be designated "abandoned" child pages of their respective race pages. This would fill the gap but keeping them unlinked would preserve the present clarity of the race pages.

1671 days, 16 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I believe that each ship mission, ship feature and racial ability should have it's own page. Depending on the mission/feature/ability, this will either reduce duplication of text, or simplify adding the mission/feature/ability to a ship or race.

As an example, many ships of multiple races have the "Cloak" mission. This should not be described in each ship, but once for all ships that have that mission/feature.

1671 days, 16 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yes, I concur absolutely. I'm just chewing over the propriety of leaving unreferenced "abandoned" child pages, since including links would cost clarity, and clarity in the Race pages is _vital_.

1671 days, 15 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I don't agree that a link to describe a mission/feature/ability would necessarily reduce clarity.

Please have a look at the Master ToC I created yesterday. It addresses the issue of abandoned child pages.

1671 days, 15 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I don't think that clarity is always harmed, but in some cases it is certainly harmed. Here... well, that's the question: How much harm is done, and how valuable is it relative to the damage to our pattern of organization?

The pattern, after all, is merely a tool to aid the editors, and it can -- and should -- be discarded when inappropriate, just as one would seldom use a hammer to drive screws.

But that's the essence of the question: How much harm to clarity will be done? In three cases, I deem that readability will be more than moderately impacted by inappropriately highlighting a term. I'm looking at possible methods of rewriting the text -- some of this is the merest kludge, after all, and ought to be rewritten in any case -- but I doubt we'll happen on a wording that both improves clarity and negates the influence of the highlight of a link.

I've looked over the Master ToC (and added a query comment in the text) but I don't see anything specific on the subject. For that matter -- and I mean no offense here -- I see no reason that, just because someone writes a rule, it ought to be followed.

Of course, the converse is true; just because someone chooses to create something that doesn't follow a structure doesn't mean someone else can't go in and change it on them.

And, finally, I see the futility in debating every little thing.

These race-description articles are among the most important we have, and clarity in them is _vital_. Structure determines the ToC (which is marginally more important), but since this doesn't impact the ToC, that decreases the import of structure. Therefore, I've reached the conclusion (and thanks for being a sounding-board) that, in these cases, clarity trumps structure.

However, if a rewrite can yield text that reduces the impact of a link highlight, structure will rise again in value, reversing the conclusion.

I'll start work on revisions, which will parallel ship missions.

1671 days, 14 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I've created a web page that should help the editors find some of the documentation administrative information. It links to many of the other administrative documents that have been created.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/AdminInterface

1671 days, 14 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

This may be a case by case basis. Every page needs a parent... but that doesn't mean that parent-child relationship needs to be made explicit on the tree.

With cloaking, for instance, it makes sense to have that be a child of Ship missions, and to have it on the tree (if we're having a ship missions section at all). Cloaking will be referenced, however, throughout the documentation, via link.

If we want to have sub-pages for various mission 9 missions, they should be children of ship missions. But this doesn't mean we need to put them on the ToC, its just a logical construct so that we can have a header later, to allow single pane navigation. Is this the crux of what you're getting at?

For example, Rob Ship is a ship mission, but it only makes sense for Privateers. If we want to leave Rob Ship (which is a complex subject) as a subpage of Privateers, that's fine in my opinion, and it's link header would eventually be

Races -> Privateers -> Rob Ship. But Rob Ship itself would never appear in the ToC, and that's ok (if we say it's ok; just picking an example here).

If we're worried about completeness, we could just have a generic mission 9 page under Ship Missions, that states that races have individual specialty missions, with links to those.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, abandoned by the ToC doesn't mean abandoned entirely.

1671 days, 14 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I think I danced around what I was trying to say, but didn't really say it. What I'm trying to say is that the structure of the ToC doesn't have to match the behind the scenes structure of the pages. It will in most cases, but if clarity deems it shouldn't, the ToC can link anywhere, and we can figure that out at the end.

1671 days, 14 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Aye; that seems reasonable.

I'm elbow-deep in the text of four different types of topics all at once here, and it may be that I lack some perspective. "Later" seems a good time to determine this, especially since the "speculative race bios" are still up in the air.

Which reminds me, @Dotman -- any more thoughts about ship pics for the race pages? I do think that would add a lot of evocative power to the text, and you're quite right -- that's precisely what we need. I still think one beats fifteen, but I'm anxious to see.

1671 days, 14 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I agree on the one beats 15. I'll throw them in at some point here. I think the one is pretty obvious for the races, big carriers, big torp ships, mbr for the privs, etc. I'll throw some in here soon.

1671 days, 14 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The Documentation Standards page is now up. I believe that all of this had been previously agreed to. If not, please inform me and I'll look into it.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/DocumentationStandards

1671 days, 13 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

There's a couple that I have issue with, but I think in general we can agree. Shall we discuss in Comments?

I'll be a few hours getting back; taking a break from the screen. My eyes are like boiled cherries.

1671 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Shall we discuss in Comments?

Sure.

> My eyes are like boiled cherries.

Been there. Done that. Keep those eyes closed so you don't bleed to death ;)

1671 days, 8 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Reply in comments. Apologies for dissertation length.

Now I'm off to alter an error that one of my Mids pointed out to me in PBP/PQ documentation earlier today, and to ask a question in Credits.

1671 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Back at ya.

1671 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Just saw the "soup" page. I don't think there are any links to it. Where does this belong? Off Tim's page?

Anyone want to take a stab at Joshua's page?

1671 days, 4 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"Soup" is an old easter egg. I'll stick in a reference list.

1670 days, 16 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> "Soup" is an old easter egg. I'll stick in a reference list.

Do we need it in the docs?

1670 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hey, @Whisperer: I'm going to have to do some minor surgery on the Host Order, which will undo some of your changes and make others. If you like, I'd be glad to explain what I'm doing and why in detail, either in conversation or in in-line comments.

I'm working on an exhaustive commentary of Host Order, but I don't think it belongs here in the Docs; it's too subjective in nature, as would be any such article. But with a little editing, what I've got right now might be of use in explaining things if you're not up for a convo.

Let me know, mate. I don't like to step on your toes.

1670 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Finally, after long and arduous effort, the new page on "The Host Order And Combat" http://play.planets.nu/#/howtoplay/combat-host is written. I'm not happy with it, though, and for two reasons:

(1) It's subjective, and might not belong in documentation. Instead, it has the feel of a guide.
(2) It's a wall of text. Specifically, the commentary needs to be differentiated from the actual steps of the Host.

Nevertheless, it's ready for factual verification and stylistic proofreading, so I'm activating it in links. Editors can message here or in comments; Feed users, alas, are restricted to sharing their opinions (or telling me what I did wrong) here in this thread.

This deals with one of the most important subjects in the documentation, and if I've made any errors, I'd really appreciate knowing so I can fix them.

1669 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I'd like to work on the style of that page. May I edit it?

As for it being a Guide, I believed all along that we'd have them on this site. I think that we should create a 'Guides' section in the ToC, and put them in there, as they're created.

1669 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK; go ahead. I've got a local archive that I can compare your product with.

Until the "guides" question is definitively answered, I'll probably just tune the content to be less... advice-ful. (Just woke up; words not working yet.) But that can wait a few days, and certainly until we see what you produce.

1669 days, 16 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I've made a few minor tweaks to the doc. Before I continue, I'd like your feedback on it.

I like the look of using Paragraphs, as opposed to using Breaks (there are examples of both in the doc), as it breaks up that "wall of text" a bit. I also replaced the double dashes with MDASHes, added a few links, and updated the references list with links that you hadn't put in. None of the referenced documents have been updated yet.

Should I continue?

1669 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I like the MDash. Good call.

Paragraphs are superior in general, but I was hoping to break up the step description and my commentary rather than merge them. I think a BR/ between might be desirable, even if the overall step is a Pp.

I played a bit with Bold and Italic for the step description, but didn't much like it at first. Still, perhaps one or the other would work.

1669 days, 15 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I modded the page to try and break up the step description and commentary per your idea. I put the commentary in divs to separate it, gave it a margin to move it to the middle a bit, and italicized it; I think it gives better spacing this way and discriminates what are comments and what the host order items are.

I did this at the end for steps 24-27. Think it looks better? Can do throughout.

1669 days, 14 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

> Think it looks better?

Yes.

The I tag should be an EM tag, to simplify Internationalization.

1669 days, 14 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I sent a message to Joshua asking about the Copyright notice. I didn't see one in the Client code, or in any of the pages I've worked on so far. We need one, but it should be put together by the Copyright holder (Joshua).

1669 days, 13 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Fairly confident, yes, but not certain. That was cribbed from other documentation.

1669 days, 3 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Tow-capture was still almost an exact copy of the VGAP 3.22 documentation version.

All I added was that the captured ship will have at least 10 crewmembers (assuming the capturing ship can spare that many), and that 2 crewmembers are required of the capturing ship.

1669 days, 3 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

First one mostly done (needs more "color"), but not linked in yet. If this is what you're looking for, I'll continue on the list in the morning.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/fed-crew-bonus

1669 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Ah! I had been mistaken on something; I'd thought almost anything could be disabled. I'll put that on my "corrections" list.

For the moment, do me a favor and concentrate on the advantages you can do from the next list. I may have an alternate progress plan for the "fixed" race advantages; putting them on a single sheet seems to make more sense now that I know.

1669 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK; I'll leave you some guidance in Note form, visible on the Edit page of "dashboard-advantages".

And no, I don't think we need more "color". That's a solid article, mate -- just the sort we need.

1668 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Combat Host order updated fully with the formatting. Can we add something in the minesweep blurb about minescooping? This happens here, in id order, right?

1668 days, 19 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Thanks to information just received from Mentar, a minor change is required to the Host Order. Specifically, the Tantrum Liner entry should be split into a discharge event, immediately followed by a charge event.

The "ion storms move" entry should probably be updated as well, due to the effects of the TANTRUM device.

1668 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

I'll look into the minesweep mission.

1668 days, 17 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I added a few more documents and linked them in to the dashboard-advantages page. Please do a refresh before you start editing it.

1668 days, 15 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'd like to avoid altering the Host Order document, W. Since Tantrums don't exist in the overwhelming majority of games, it's mildly counterproductive. Instead, I'd suggest a short Host Order excerpt with commentary on the Tantrum page.

1668 days, 15 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Just looked over combat-host, and I really like it! Thanks -- that would have been all but unreadable.

Side note: Has anyone tested that quibble Emork raised about gather missions on undefended enemy planets?

1668 days, 15 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> I'd suggest a short Host Order excerpt with commentary on the Tantrum page

It's already in there.

1668 days, 15 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Has anyone tested that quibble Emork raised about gather missions on undefended enemy planets?

Not me. This would require a test game, as defenses frequently go up early in the occupation of a planet.

1668 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yes. I have a bit of trouble with test games, since I take literally the injunction against us, that we cannot occupy more than one seat in any game.

1668 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Take a look at the Missions that I've just done and see what you think is best.

Thing about that is, it's both a Mission and an Advantage, so it won't match either format perfectly.

Speaking of which: Refresh, because I've just fixed some typos in the T0C. Also, I'm taking a break now that I've knocked down some low-hanging fruit. Late tonight I'll probably go back to the Host Order Commentary page.

speculative-races is formatted for reading, but I'd like to wait for either @Joshua's approval or his confirmed disinterest.

1667 days, 20 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Take a look at the Missions that I've just done and see what you think is best.

I looked at sensor-sweep, and found that the "References" list had been populated, but the target files hadn't had their "Referred to" list updated.

I don't expect to get much done until Monday. Weekends aren't high productivity on this for me.

> speculative-races is formatted for reading

I hope the new descriptions move the races a bit farther from the SciFi sources, decreasing our chances of having legal issues.

1667 days, 19 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Refresh, because I've just fixed some typos in the T0C

I don't work from the ToC. I work from http://planets.nu/#/admin/docs

I refresh that when I've been away for a while. The oldest documents are at the top, and the newest at the bottom.

1667 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I have a bit of trouble with test games, since I take literally the injunction against us, that we cannot occupy more than one seat in any game.

Then just create a small 2-person private game, and I'll be the "straight man". This is NOT a problem.

1667 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@gnerphk - have you included an explanation of how PBP points work once the ship limit hits?

1667 days, 17 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk and just to add to my question, I think players need to know that the player with the most PBPs gets to dominate the queue (i.e. build first)

1667 days, 14 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

It's in there, LG. I didn't want to make a guide to "how to dominate the queue in six easy steps"; that wouldn't fit the theme of 'documentation' all that well. I believe there's even an external link to Emork's MBC article over on the Mag.

Taking most of today off from doc writing.

1663 days, 7 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The gather mission page is done. Starting work on the special mission page, but I don't have a list of the various special missions, and how they appear to the user.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/special-missions

I've only played as Crystals and Robots. Information on missions of other races, including Campaign missions, would be appreciated.

1662 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Aye; well, I'm not much of a Campaign player, myself. Perhaps this is another item for test games.

I've been working on Advantages for a bit; nice to get some things accomplished.

1661 days, 18 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The special-missions page is now complete for non-campaign missions and linked in to the appropriate parent pages.

There are quite a few pages with the title "New Page". These pages are available for editing, following the normal procedures (1st thing, add top comment that you're editing it).

1661 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Updates to the "Editing HTML" page, including sections on indenting and scripting, and a section on external references.

1661 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Joshua fixed it. It appears that the software responded poorly when I had a quote in a title. For now, we don't want to do that.

1661 days, 15 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Updated the "Questions for Joshua" page.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/questions-for-joshua

1661 days, 14 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

As requested by the users, there's a new Tenacity page (http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/tenacity). Where should we link this in on the ToC? General Information?

1661 days, 13 hours, 47 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hey, can we get something in the docs about Safe Passage disallowing combat between ships, specifically it overrides Kill mission and Primary Enemy settings.

This is probably the wrong spot to request this...

1661 days, 13 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Broseph,

> can we get something in the docs about Safe Passage ...

Done.

1661 days, 12 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> a quote in a title. For now, we don't want to do that.

Good to know.

> This is probably the wrong spot to request this.

No, Br'er Grumpy Cat, this is the right spot. If anything is unclear, go ahead and tell us. That's half the reason this thread exists. Bear in mind that there's only a few of us doing anything, so please don't go out of your way to suggest minor tweaks.

1661 days, 10 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

There is now a documentation "To Do" page. This is useful for keeping all the tasks in a single list.

The "To Do" list from various pages should be merged into this central page. Also, user requests should be placed into this list.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/TODO

When we get a better handle on the list, I believe we should ask the users what they think is needed.

1661 days, 10 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

In general, good idea. I'm confident it'll be useful, especially once the main documentation is complete.

In specific, I'm now spending as much time on the paperwork as I am on writing.

Some of this, of course, is inevitable; every article must be linked in, and that's a ton of time -- especially considering that the links are being documented as we go. (And yes, I know why that's necessary.) Likewise, as the number of pages grows, it's getting harder and harder to track which is where and which is needed.

But unless something's essential or requires research, I'm not going to bother copying it over -- it's usually less time to just fix it. Likewise low-priority tasks.

Finally made some progress on VCR today. It'll be after the weekend by the time the final product is up, but I'm happy with the way it's progressing. Looks like three different pages will come out of this, and the hard part is knowing what to cut.

1661 days, 10 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

PS: I like the Special Missions page. That should be easy to fill out, and I may do some of that in between cutting and pasting, if you've no objections.

Likewise, I like the way the Advantages page is going. I've got the template ready to split that up once it's complete.

We're very close to being done -- except of course for about three weeks of hard work.

1661 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> unless something's essential or requires research, I'm not going to bother copying it over -- it's usually less time to just fix it

Agreed. The above page is primarily to track the large tasks. It should also provide some inducement for us to not leave too many small tasks laying around to work on later.

> as the number of pages grows, it's getting harder and harder to track which is where and which is needed

Is there something we can do to make this better?

1661 days, 9 hours, 32 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Gah! I wish I could be a help to you guys. I do legal writing online for a living and write scifi for fun, so it's totally in my wheelhouse. The issue? My game skills are way too rusty. :-(

Another 6 months of playing and I'd have been definitely qualified I think. As it is, when things are complete, I'll help proof everything. That I can do.

1661 days, 5 hours, 34 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Some omissions I've spotted-

Friendly codes: md0 drops 100 mines. You only documented 1-9, q and h.

Out of fuel : jettison won't work at all. You can't jettison minerals, supplies or clans, not just fighters or torps as documented.

Ships: No mention of ship to ship or ship to planet transfer under ship commands.

Well done editors. New docs looking much better.
-
Singularity

1661 days, 3 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Friendly codes: md0 drops 100 mines. You only documented 1-9, q and h.

Fixed. Also documented the mda FC.

> Out of fuel : jettison won't work at all. You can't jettison minerals, supplies or clans, not just fighters or torps as documented.

Fixed.

> Ships: No mention of ship to ship or ship to planet transfer under ship commands.

I'll look into this later. Adding to the To Do list.

1660 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Combat is not so much completed as it is tentatively abandoned. All subpages are active, and the "combat-basics" and "VCR" pages are live. The detailed battle description, however, is (I believe) beyond the scope of these documents; moreover, it is certainly a lower priority than completing dashboard, advantages, special abilities, and special missions description.

1660 days, 22 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm taking a few hours off; Combat was far more exhausting than might be supposed from the few paragraphs that survived the editing process. When I return, I'll plan to take a look at Tenacity, PBP/PQ, and any other subjects you feel should warrant my attention. Sing out if there's anything in particular.

@Dotman - you still with us on the individual race pages? I'd love to see those ships, and I'm not the best person to be doing it.

I'd also invite further comment on "combat-rules" and its subpages as well as "speculative-races".

1660 days, 19 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

With my limited exposure, I'm done with the Special Missions pages. There are a lot of blank pages in there that need work from someone who's used the advantages and understands them. The Racial Advantages are in a similar shape.

While I could probably put SOMETHING in them, they'd still need to be gone over by someone who's actually played the race, to verify that I got it right.

As you're done with Combat, I could go in and finish the page reference lists. That was on hold while you were working on Combat (a wide ranging field).

I could also work on cleaning up the per-page To Do lists.

Finally, there's a LOT of formatting work that needs to be done, even on "finished" pages. I think this can be delayed, or worked on when a page is being edited for some other reason.

All of the above have been added to the To Do list. Do you have a preference? My preference is to finish the reference lists, and clean up the To Do stuff while I'm in there.

1660 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

PBP and Glory Devices have been revised.

1660 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Just saw the Host Order list from the How to Play links. Noted that the breakdown between BeforeMovement, Movement, and AfterMovement that the Game Assistant has is missing. Any chance of putting those headings into the new Host Order document? I'm fairly new to the game, and knowing when something happens in relation to movement has been very helpful.

1660 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Siggi,

> I've noticed that the Glory Device page is still largely incorrect

If you can tell me what's wrong with it, or point me to a thread that discusses it, I can fix it.

I received the information on Pillage/Plunder. It appears that neither Pillage nor Plunder can be done more than once per turn to a planet. Can you do one of each (I expect no)?

1660 days, 9 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> I'm envious. Mixed rain, sleet, snow, and other nastiness here.

Don't be too envious. I installed a headliner, using spray-on glue.

> PBP and Glory Devices have been revised

In the PBP page, there are mixed FCs. Some places have 'pbN', while others have 'PBx'. This should be consistent. As the 'xxN' nomenclature is used elsewhere, I believe that 'pbN' will work better.

Thank you for filling in the blanks. Can a player do a Priority build and a clone at the same base during the first phase?

1660 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Can a player do a Priority build and a clone at the same base during the first phase?

Personally, I see no reason why not. However, since the clone "fix" of about eighteen months ago, I've not had occasion to test it.

You're probably correct with regard to the friendly codes. I prefer PBx, but -- to each his own. I'll fix it to match as you prefer, after the which I'll delve back into the PQ.

1660 days, 8 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Grandmagates - We try to avoid adding items to the Host Order, since it's the fundamental document that informs all others. We're working on a commentated version, but that's likely to be a long time coming.

Sorry we can't be more help.

1660 days, 8 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Temporary revisions of PQ. Host subarticle for builds added to TODO list.

1660 days, 7 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The Pillage and Plunder pages are up. Does it appear to be correct?

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/adv-pillage
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/adv-plunder

1660 days, 6 hours, 59 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Looks good. Verified the numbers.

1660 days, 6 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Nice. Fixed a typo and added a minor factoid, but this is what we need. @Siggi ? Any thoughts?

I'll link them into the Advantages page, then. I'll be over there anyway, so it's no trouble.

1660 days, 6 hours, 15 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Okay...can I get in on this? This is kinda like what i do for a living. Research and write.

1660 days, 6 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I would say "no", Broseph. Spend the six months learning the game again.

Frankly, I've been playing since the 90s and writing guides for as long as I've been here at Nu -- and I'm not enough of an expert myself to do this perfectly.

On the other hand, if you're willing to work, we can find some testing for you to help with. We can set up 1-on-1 private test games for the specific purpose of providing answers to some of the persistent questions.

It'll take a few days to put together a good research list, but I know @Whisperer has some questions right now. Mine at present are complex ones relating to cloning, and will require ship-limit games for testing.

1660 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The RGA page is up.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/adv-rebel-ground-attack

1660 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> I'll link them into the Advantages page, then.

They links should be there already. All I did was fill in the empty page.

1660 days, 6 hours, 2 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I research and summarize things more complex than VGAP for a living, I'm a legal consultant and licensed attorney (US). And honestly any idiot can write the HISS page, which still isn't up. I've already written it. I'd hardly be trying to write about cloning unless I could take a look at the source code. So I know my limits.

I assumed you guys had a sorta task list and I'd write the pages I was qualified to write.

Sounds like snobbery Gnerphk. Gotta say. But whatever you need. Lemme know. I'll be around.

1660 days, 5 hours, 55 minutes ago

joseph bradshaw

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

This was the account I started with. I'm not as new as the Broseph account.

1660 days, 5 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Perhaps it is. I'm hardly in a position to see my own perspective for what it is; no human alive, I daresay, is fully capable of that.

But I think it's more that I've been spending a fair percentage of my time correcting the errors of others, and I've no desire to complicate that process when we're so near to the end of things. It would be very nice to have some of the grunt work taken care of, and I'd love to have some people do some of the more complex research for some of these pages, but I can't see that adding any writers would accomplish much at this point.

1660 days, 5 hours, 26 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Well for what it's worth:
HISS: This is a Lizard race advantage. Any Lizard ship with beams can select this mission.

A ship orbiting a planet with this mission adds +5 (default rate) to the happiness of both colonists and natives below.

This mission happens before movement, just before cargo drop and the ('BUM') Beam Up Money friendly code action.

Multiple ships can hiss at the same time.

1660 days, 5 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hey, @Whisperer: We're both in the same pages. I'm going to back out now and save my changes locally so I don't step on your toes.

1660 days, 5 hours, 10 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Another mission page, still missing:

Repair Self: This is a Cyborg race specific ship mission. Any Cyborg ship with this mission selected will repair itself 10% per turn. No supplies are required.

A ship may not move on it's own while performing this mission, but it may be towed.

This mission is complete prior to movement and combat.

1660 days, 5 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

They don't let you out much, do they?

1660 days, 5 hours, 5 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

EDIT (not tested but I'm almost positive) This mission will work if moved by ion storms only. It will NOT work without fuel.

Those are the only two I did before you shut me down Gnerphk. Just thought I'd post 'em anyway. Not trying to ruffle feathers. But, you know, 20 mins of work and all. :-)

1660 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I created a lot of empty pages and linked them into the dashboard-advantages page.

1660 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"They don't let you out much, do they?"

No. I tried to tell you. Online legal research consultant = Web nerd to the max.

1660 days, 5 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> We're both in the same pages.

I put the editing tag in the top. Sorry I forgot the date.

1660 days, 4 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

:o) No worries, mate; we must have gotten in nearly simultaneously. Just sing out when you're done with "dashboard-advantages". I'll move on to other Dashboard documentation -- or perhaps I'll instead do that Color one under Starmap that's been bugging me for so long.

Incidentally: The "checkbox" thing (under TODO) suggests we should slightly expand "Starmap" to include the starship, planet, and starbase interface subscreens. IMO, these should be limited subpages with minor information and redirects to the main sections on each subject.

1660 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Broseph - I did take offense, but I see now you may well not have been trying to give it.

You're correct that ion storms won't interfere with self-repair and that fuel is needed; that latter is the case for most missions, since an "out-of-fuel" status will reset them to "Exploration" (all but "Land and Disassemble", in fact). However, "out-of-fuel" won't always trigger a mission reset; I'm presently digging through the Host to find out when and why, which is one reason "repair-self" hasn't been completed.

Another reason is that these pages are among the lowest on the priority list. There are major features of the interface that are still un- or poorly-documented, and the Host Order presents some mysteries -- some of which it may actually be highly impolitic to document, as they may lead to exploits. I tend to save the no-brainer pages for when I can't sleep nights.

1660 days, 4 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Just sing out when you're done with "dashboard-advantages"

Done. I alphabetized the non-Campaign advantages. Later, I'll get in and alphabetize the Campaign advantages.

> You're correct that ion storms won't interfere with self-repair and that fuel is needed; that latter is the case for most missions, since an "out-of-fuel" status will reset them to "Exploration" (all but "Land and Disassemble", in fact).

I've had an out-of-fuel condition (caused by web mines) reset a "Land and Disassemble" mission.

1660 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Well Gnerphk it's my goddamn legal training I swear. Gotta be careful not to ruffle people's feathers. Not used to being told I have nothing to contribute, but very used to knowing when exactly when I'm correct and when I don't know for sure.

Yep, HISS and SELF REPAIR were some low hanging fruit. Stuff you don't need to bother yourself with if you are plumbing the depths of the host order and the underlying math. Honestly I figure you need to see the source code to really know some things. Hopefully they'll let you take a look at that.

And, as I said, keep me on your short list for testing and the like. I'm not that new. This game was originally written in Visual Basic, which I can read if it becomes important. Not sure what it's written in now, java or HTML I figure.

Keep up the good work guys. Let your Bro know if there's anything he can do.

1660 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> PBP and Glory Devices have been revised
> Temporary revisions of PQ.

I looked at the PBP and PQ pages. It appears that you removed the section titled "Abuse". While I understand, and agree with, your reason for not wanting a section with that title, the information in that section is useful information for both of the pages. Can we find a more acceptable title for it? How about "Queue Control"?

I've seen quite a few questions in the newsfeed that are answered in those few paragraphs.

1660 days, 4 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Broseph,

> Not sure what it's written in now, java or HTML I figure.

I expect it's written in C# and .NET. The server is Windows.

1660 days, 4 hours, 13 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

You mean we don't know for sure? I'd expect at least parts of the code would be released to the head DOC writer (Gnerphk?). To think again though VGAP3 did have competing hosts and what not mucking things up (phost for example). So I guess not releasing is probably the smarter move.

1660 days, 4 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

RE Queue Control: I'm not comfortable documenting tactics or strategies, especially before the basic descriptive documentation is completed. More particularly, though - if they're to be described here, they should most certainly be kept separate from primary documentation. As such, for the moment I've satisfied my own conscience with a link to the external MBC article.

For the PQ page, I'm working on a short blurb on queue jamming -- but that, by its nature, ought best to be placed under the Ship Limit, which I'm recasting so it's PQ/PBP neutral. Chances are good that clarity will be best achieved by again creating links and sublinks, especially as queue jamming in general applies to both PBP and PQ, even where general-theory MBC is impracticable with PQ. (There's SDSF-spamming, for instance -- I've got a good external link to that which I'll include.)

So, temporarily, I've shelved that project until I can satisfy myself organizationally.

1660 days, 4 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Broseph - I'm just an editor. I've written or rewritten about 60% of the present documentation text, but that's not a terribly big accomplishment since much of it is no-brainer stuff partially cribbed from primary sources.

The API is available to developers, but the Host is kept private. In my opinion, this is done for very good reason; even the earliest TimHost programs were vulnerable to cheating. We do not want that here.

In addition, it's very much in keeping with tradition that certain elements of the Host are obscure and best quantified through testing and logical reconstruction. One great example is the recent cloning-after-limit debate (and subsequent patch).

1660 days, 3 hours, 51 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Agreed. All good policy. In the bad old days things were pretty bad. Goddamn Q Continuum even got me once, not even sure what I did. I used to test AI. Me vs. theQ, ACP, Admiral, C Player, etc...recorded with VPA. I started that up after being cheated like crazy by a Privateer/Borg player...one guy played both! Anyway, I'm just all nostalgia at this point. You guys are doing great.

1660 days, 3 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Colors completed. I uncovered some nastiness in Starmap that needed/may yet need some editing. Looking forward to the comprehensive first review that will follow completion of the draft documentation.

I may do some more Advantages pages before calling it a night.

Kibbutzers may be interested to note the presence of the new Hisssss! page at http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/adv-hisssss

1660 days, 2 hours, 17 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

kibitzer? Oh *#&@ dude. Thought it was kind of a community effort. Yer HISS page is pretty good. Just thought it was more of a wiki than a private project. Is there a hierarchy I didn't know about?

It's all cool. Just surprised is all. This thread is like every other message I read. Thought it was public.

1660 days, 2 hours, 6 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

And, as always, I am available to help upon request.

1660 days, 2 hours, 5 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Which is basically me begging to help. :-)

1660 days, 1 hours, 40 minutes ago

broseph

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Honestly most of the pages are pretty easy.

1660 days, 0 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

:o) You'd think so; you really would.

Yeah, mate; that was indeed a gentle dig. Bottom line? I don't think you should be writing these, and at present, that's not where we need the help. We need people to run test games, and I don't have the time.

Specifically, I have questions about the queue and cloning close to the Ship Limit, both under PBP and the PQ. Specifically:
(1) Under each system, is it possible to simultaneously both clone and build pre-450, whether pbN or not?
(2) Under each system, is it possible to simultaneously both clone and build 450-500, whether pbN or not?
(3) Under each system, is it possible to clone after the ship limit has once been reached, in the event of a sudden massive ship loss combined with the absence of sufficient new builds to reach the limit?
(4) Are these answers changed in a Campaign versus a Standard or Classic environment?
(5) Via mass colonization or FoF elimination, is it possible in any system to artificially create a Step (3) situation?

And, finally:
(6) Does standard cloning take place:
.a. During the first priority subphase?
.b. During the first standard build subphase?
.c. During the second priority subphase?
.d. During the second standard build subphase?

To be perfectly fair, (6) is kind of a trick question; under the PQ, I'm informed that there is no second priority subphase; likewise, I'm reliably informed that cloning never takes place in a priority subphase. Therefore, one presumes that all cloning must take place during the first standard build subphase. However, even if the ship limit is not reached pre-combat due to a mass colonization event, there is no cloning if the Ship Limit had been hit during Host 1; if the entire standard build cycle should pass without then re-filling the limit, can there be a cloning event at all that turn?

And therein lies the heart of the question: When, precisely, is the decision whether or not to permit a cloning event undertaken during both the PBP and PQ systems?

1659 days, 23 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Well I for one am really happy to see the upgraded Pillage and GD pages.
Especially pleased to see how condensed the pages are , yet have all the relevant info. This is why I'd never offer to write these myself.
Only thing I'd mention I'd like to see a link from the Fascist Race page to the Pillage mission. But that's a minor concern.

And one thing so I can complain too: http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/weapon-destruction-power

On this page it says that torpedoes have a hit rat of 65%. That's actually reversed , chance to hit is around 35%.

1659 days, 23 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

You know, @Siggi, I think that's probably just you having consistently bad luck. My torpedoes usually hit.

About the Pillage mission: Once the basic docs are complete, I'll be going through for a first review and rewrite. Every single page gets the treatment, and I'll be planning to cross-hook links of this nature. After that's finished, I aim to completely revamp the text on the eleven race pages; hopefully by that point I'll have some feedback (whether positive or negative) from Management about the http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/speculative-races page. (Additionally, @Dotman was planning to add some starship blurbs and links at the bottom of each. I'm very excited about that.)

...sorry; just realized I'm rambling. Been writing rather a lot this past night, both here and for a paying gig. I'm squeezing this in between assignments.

1659 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk: I am surprised that someone with your experience does not know the answers. Especially since most of your questions would be answered by looking at the host order. :)

...
49. First build new ships
50. Clone ships
…

So tha answers for classic PBP:

(1) No. “If a base is set to both build and clone a ship, a ship will get built and no clone will be made.” -> BTW, this is wrong in the docs ATM.

(2) If you have >20 PBP and build a ship in a priority queue and the normal queue won’t fill the ship limit, you should get the clone. I haven’t ever been in a situation to try this, though.

(3) Theoretically yes, but it would require that there are not enough ships queued for the second build phase and that people won’t queue enough new ships for the first build phase of the next turn.

(5) Mass colonization: there are two build phases after the colonization before cloning can occur so if you colonize more ships than double the amount of SBs in the game, you should get some clones even after the ship limit. In practice, a little less colonizing should suffice, since some of the SBs probably built during the first build phase.

FoF takes place at the beginning of the turn so there is just one build phase before cloning. Thus, if FoF strikes out more ships than there are build orders in the queue at the beginning of the turn, cloning should be possible

(6) Read the host order. :)

1659 days, 22 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Oh, that's certainly SUPPOSED to be the case, @Oho. As it happens, though -- it's not.

The Host Order isn't completely accurate with regard to cloning; logically, it can't be. At least a portion of the cloning action must take place as part of the first standard build subphase before construction (since a successful cloning prevents a standard build), and another portion must take place after that point and before combat (since a refueled cloned ship can fight), but -- BUT! Can it take place at other times? and Is there any way to narrow down the precise moment of cloning production?

Certain items in the documentation indicate that simultaneous priority builds and standard cloning can occur during the same turn, BUT! that's all from pre-patch (12 months ago) and none of it covers standard cloning in a PQ game.

In short, definitive and exhaustive testing seems to be required. Considering the potential complexity of the subject, I'd even (and I know this sounds a bit like blasphemy) doubt @Joshua's word on the subject.

Here's a link to some background: http://www.planetsmagazine.com/newsandstories/editorials/hello-dolly/

1659 days, 21 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Comments left in Advantages; minor changes also; "adv-web-mines" activated.

1659 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I am not following you here. Please provide (current) evidence that the host order is not correct (with respect to classic PBP games).

Specifically, your example of build and clone is incorrect: In a classic PBP game, if you set your SB to both build and clone, the SB will build and not clone! Just tested and verified this.

Also your other example of cloned ship being able to fight follows directly from the host order: 49. Clone, 74. SB Primary orders, 84. Ship. vs ship combat. Three is nothing mysterious about it: cloning happens after the first build phase. :)

PQ and campaign games are not my bread an butter and I don’t say anything about them.

1659 days, 21 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I don't need to justify my questions, @Oho. I just need to ask them. In this case, I'm providing a logical statement to indicate that the two steps cannot be entirely separate.

I'm not saying you're wrong, except in the single case of simultaneous cloning and building; I've made that happen, though not in a recent game (I've been stuck in endgames for a while). Since no documentation has since been issued to state authoritatively that it's impossible, I have little reason to suppose anything other than that it's difficult -- as, in fact, it always has been; it's a corner-case ability. Your statement that you've been unable to make it happen only reinforces this conviction. Only a controlled and exhaustive study can determine absolute possibilities.

Likewise, I've successfully instituted a post-limit clone -- though, again, not recently. Indeed, it is in order to test the veracity of the documentation that I'm forced to rely on empirical evidence reached through exhaustive testing. I've done a fair amount, but I'm out of time.

I did say that I'd be inclined to doubt @Joshua's own word on this; I ought to clarify: If exhaustive testing takes place, I'd trust it over anyone's word on how things SHOULD be. I can do "should" on my own.

1659 days, 21 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hail,

This is a prior forum response from Joshua so you can take it as definitive information regarding cloning. There is a DIFFERENCE between classic and campaign games. The ORIGINAL DOCS are wrong for classic games since they indicated that cloning takes prescedence when in fact, the regular build will take precedence. In campaign games, it is the REVERSE, and advanced cloning will take precedence. The chat below includes Joshua's response confirming this. I think the issue is the docs have always been wrong with respect to classic games and never got updated....until now... so keep up the nice work editors

MEGA

======================================
Hi Joshua,

Could you clarify if your statement holds true for advanced cloning as well as regular cloning? Regicide posted from the Nu docs which imply that if a ship is scheduled to both clone and build that the clone takes precedence. I know you can't clone when you are building a ship at the same SB in classic, but am not sure if your clarification to Loner was only for regular cloning or advanced cloning as well

One more clarification if you have the time. I think that Regicide feels that ship damage inhibits cloning(?advanced and/or regular). I have seen no documentation for ship damage having any effect on cloning. The situation may arise when it is important to repair a battleship but also to clone another ship at the same SB and I would like to know for sure if ship damage really has any impact on cloning.

Many Thanks. Keep up the good work,

MEGA

joshua
10 days ago • Like
@Mega, good clarification, with advanced cloning enabled the cloning will take precedence over the regular ship build. Fixing a ship or ship damage have no affect on cloning.

==============================================================================

1659 days, 21 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Additional clarification:
Priority builds have been observed to take place in parallel with a successful cloning at a single station.

TimHost loopholes included successful cloning using both towed and chunneled clone targets; truly exhaustive testing ought to include both possibilities.

1659 days, 21 hours, 34 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Would be good if beginners could read very clearly about our 4 rule sets:
* Standard PBP
* Standard PP
* Campign PBP (at least some are still running)
* Campaign PP

Additionally there's classic which is standard PBP without Klingon fast beams.

1659 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Heck, mate -- it'd be nice if _I_ could read something nice and clear about those.

Best we've managed so far is this:
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/variant-games

Since it's meant to be both comprehensive and correct in detail, it's rather obscure -- "Wall of Text Disease", I call it. But there's really no place here for a beginner's section; not yet, at least. I'm still grinding away at composing the basics.

1659 days, 21 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Agreed, Mega. The PQ and PBP pages are awaiting a "Host Order of Building" page, but it's way down on my priority list. There's still basic documentation that's missing. Typing as fast as I can. :o\

1659 days, 20 hours, 18 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Very good page, Gnerphk!

1659 days, 20 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@broseph - I made you an editor. You should now be able to edit/add those pages.

1659 days, 19 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Broseph,

> I'd expect at least parts of the code would be released to the head DOC writer

Joshua stated that the Host code would remain private.

http://planets.nu/#/activity/1711653 (about 60% down the page)

@Siggi,

> Especially pleased to see how condensed the pages are, yet have all the relevant info.

I've done quite a bit of Technical Documentation in the past. I'm glad to see it's helping.

> On this page it says that torpedoes have a hit rat of 65%.

That number meshes fairly well with my observations.

@Gnerphk,

I'm still not happy with the PBP/PQ pages, but I'll wait a bit to see what happens.

> Comments left in Advantages

Addressed

> "adv-web-mines" activated.

I was unsure as to whether to create a page, or link directly to the webmines page.

It looks OK, except for a formatting issue (fixed).

> I don't need to justify my questions, @Oho. I just need to ask them.
> Heck, mate -- it'd be nice if _I_ could read something nice and clear about those.

It appears to me (and I expect some of them) that you're beginning to snap at the users/players. I see this as an indication that you could use a break soon. I'd like to suggest that you take the day off, spend it with Family and/or Friends, and sip a few glasses of a nice Old Vine Zin (or whatever your favorite beverage is).

1659 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

A nice rich red, perhaps a Shiraz/Grenache/Merlot blend, is my preferred tipple; I'm also passionately fond of a decent Scots whisky.

You may be right, @Whisperer. I don't feel particularly snappish, but I may be. Perhaps I ought to stay away from the Feed, at least.

1659 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

RE Advantages: Perfect. Thanks!

1659 days, 17 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The Campaign advantage list is now up, but most of the pages are empty. I can put in the information in the Officers/Advantages pages, but that's just the bare-bones. After it's all in, I'll need the details from people who have actually used the advantage/mission.

Also reworded the description of what a Campaign Advantage is, and how to get one.

1659 days, 17 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK. I'll get on those Advantages that I know personally. It's a fair number, surprisingly.

I'm in full agreement -- we need personal experience with the advantage (or special mission) in order to document it properly.

There's half a dozen descriptive articles left on the Dashboard, and I've been working on the subarticles for them. It ought to be interesting.

1658 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I linked the Tenacity page into the toc just to make it accessible. I also added a comment that Tenacity was per player, *not* per player/race.

I noticed that a statement I had in about the accuracy of the Rescue Factor information was removed. This will cause players to say that *our* documentation is in error, when they should, in fact, be saying that Joshua has failed to provide adequate documentation. I'd like to put something back in redirecting those complaints.

1658 days, 18 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I've spent several minutes trying to come up with an appropriate way of saying "We're not really sure what this means, or for that matter if the feature is working properly."

Unfortunately, I've still got nothing.

Perhaps this:
"This portion of the documentation is still under review, and may not be entirely accurate. We apologize for any inconvenience."

1658 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

That statement still puts us in the user's sights. As the core problem is Joshua's, I believe it's appropriate, but possibly not PC, to put him in their sights. If you knew me, you'd know that PC isn't one of my strong points ;)

1658 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

On the weapon-destruction-power page, should we list the number of mines/webmines per turn that each beam weapon destroys?

1658 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"Documentation for this feature is unavailable at this time."

There's no difference to the user between us and Joshua; the casual user will assume the site administrators built this. We are building it for them, after all.

1658 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> On the weapon-destruction-power page, should we list the number of mines/webmines per turn that each beam weapon destroys?

It's in there now. It looks OK.

1658 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

In addition to saying that this is all we have, I think we need to say that we suspect the documentation to be in error. I think this should be a stronger statement than Gnerphk supplied above.

1658 days, 15 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

> There's no difference to the user between us and Joshua; the casual user will assume the site administrators built this. We are building it for them, after all.

While *you* may be doing this for Joshua, I'm doing this for the users (myself included). While the "casual" user may lump the Editors together with the Administrators, the experienced users know better.

1657 days, 22 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

That's an interesting philosophical question. Since it's tough for me to pass that sort of thing without tossing in my own two cents worth:

I consider myself an unpaid representative of site management when writing documentation. As such, I feel it would be inappropriate for me to behave in an excessively insubordinate fashion. On the other hand, I usually get paid to do this sort of thing, so there are limits to my self-control.

My assignment here is to produce documentation that is superior to that which was originally available on the site. It should be readable, interesting, informative, and above all authoritative. In so doing, I'll be working on a project that aids the entire community; since this is also my prime motivation, I consider that community to be my first loyalty (with the site second and my own interests third).

1657 days, 22 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Updated and integrated the last primary starbase subpage with the dashboard list subpages. Also wandered through the nascent Guides section, fleshing out the content a bit. I do very much like what you're doing with it, @Whisperer .

Later today I expect to finish the last of the Dashboard primary subpages and perhaps put in some work on Advantages.

After that, I view the priority to be a thorough test of all links and sub-links in the entire structure, beginning with Racelist and the ToC.

Long term, I'm looking forward to doing a complete textual review of the completed first draft. This will be done with retexting, polishing style, and updating some of the formatting to meet internal consistency. Once that is finished, my intention is to re-cast the text of the eleven race pages; this last won't interfere with Dotman's ship pic integration, which can easily be done in the interim.

1657 days, 22 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Another item: In keeping with your comments, @Whisperer , I've added a preface to the Tenacity documentation page. It neatly fits my own preference, but if you wish to change it I'll understand (since I signed it "The Editors").

1657 days, 19 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> I've added a preface to the Tenacity documentation page

While I would have written it a bit stronger, I find this to be acceptable.

1657 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> wandered through the nascent Guides section

That section will be a while before it gets to a fully usable form. One of the problems is that most of the guides were written for VGAP, which has diverged from Planets.nu. Even the Classic games are different.

I added a comment to the main guides page describing an issue I noticed while researching the off-site guides, along with my preferred solution. If you agree, I'd like to put that comment in the top of all the Guides pages.

I believe I need to add a section about weaponry.

Input from the community as to which off-site guides they like best are always appreciated.

In addition, if any of the community wants to write a Guide for something, to be hosted locally, I'll be glad to format it for use within our documentation system, and link it in. At this point, I'm especially interested to see a How-To on early empire expansion.

1657 days, 6 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I like it as it is, mate. Fleshes out the article nicely. I might tune the text a very little, but it works well.

The table IS a little wide. How tough would it be to divide it into two separate tables -- one for construction costs and the other with efficiency? If it's not too time-consuming, we could put the first under the preceding paragraph. Then too, the second might come in handy if copied into a subarticle on fuel efficiency under Navigation (which could also be sublinked here).

1657 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The table has been split into two. Please feel free to do what you'd like with them.

1656 days, 19 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

There's lots of good new information being brought up in the Tow Mystery thread (http://planets.nu/#/activity/1756306). This is something that I've never researched. Could someone who understands it either integrate it into the tow page, or create a tow-break page?

1656 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I tweaked the entries you added to the Guides. I believe that a user should know where they're being sent before they select the link.

Working on the Weapons guide page.

1656 days, 18 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hail,

There may be changes made if Joshua believes a bug is involved. The Long intercept technique with an arriving HYP ship or even an arriving local ship 84 LY out has been around a long time and Joshua is aware and even gave examples suggesting it might not be a bug (and he made no change to the programming when it came up last year).
I have contacted him (AND I believe a UserVoice has been initiated) about the 'Long Waypoint/short intercept' technique which to me seems unintended behaviour that can cripple primarily the non gravitronic cloaking races and am hopeful he will review that.

Cheers,

MEGA

1656 days, 17 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Megalomaniac,

> There may be changes made if Joshua believes a bug is involved

There may ALWAYS be changes. Unlike THost, NuHost and the client are living software, undergoing active development and bugfixes (when was the last THost release?). This means that any portion of the software may be changed at any time, often requiring changes to the documentation.

The goal of this project is to document "what is". I put a special emphasis on documenting things that cause user confusion. The tow-break situation above qualifies on both counts. I feel that I lack the experience to properly document it, or it would already have been done.

We shouldn't allow the possibility (or probability) of change to deter us from this task. If we did, nothing would ever get documented. This is the problem we're trying to correct.

1656 days, 17 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm going to be working in the empty race and ship advantages pages. I'll be filling in the basic information. There are a lot of pages with absolutely nothing, so I should finish tomorrow. After that, please feel free to put in any details that were missed.

1656 days, 17 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Regarding documentation and changes: it would be great to have some sort of release notes to see what has been changed and when. There used to be one (http://planets.nu/documentation/release-notes), but is hasn't been updated in ages. Maybe the documentation team could add this to the wish list for Joshua..

1656 days, 17 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I think we need to find a place to link in the UFO page that Joshua wanted to be left in. Could this go under Stellar Cartography?

1656 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Oho,

> it would be great to have some sort of release notes to see what has been changed and when

Right now, we're in the process of moving from V1.0 of the Planets.nu documentation to V2.0. This involves a complete rewrite of most of the previously existing documentation, and a HUGE amount of new documentation. I expect that notice will be delivered when this task is complete.

To do a file-by-file status would take a lot of additional time, slowing down overall progress.

1656 days, 16 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I'm going to be working in the empty race and ship advantages pages

The Feds were previously done. I just "finished" the Lizards, but I seem to recall that there was something special about the crew bonus not working against planets. Someone might want to have a look at that. I'm putting it into the To Do page.

On to the Birds.

1656 days, 16 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Re the Lizards, The Crew bonus allows the lizard ships to sustain up to 150% damage. In combat with ships, if the damage percent is over 100%, the ship will still survive. In combat with planets, if the lizard ship sustains over 100% damage, it will continue to fight until 150% damage, but if it wins with over 100% damage, it will be destroyed. You still get the planet though.

I would have edited it myself but I wasn't sure how to word the above succinctly.

1656 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Also, the old reasoning for this behavior is the lizards are so strong they literally hold the ship together themselves. With planetary combat, the planetary tidal forces are strong enough that the ship is ripped apart after combat.

1656 days, 16 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Dotman,

Thanks. I'll update it.

1656 days, 13 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The Birds are now done. I had to split the Super Spy page into Super Spy and Super Spy Deluxe (can be disabled). I think I got that split correct.

I also had to add the 'xNN' FC (disables Super Spy Deluxe) to the FC list.

1655 days, 19 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I've taken a quick stroll through, and I like what I see.

(I hesitate to mention it it public, but you do tend to be a bit careless with closing tags, mate. I may do a bit of cleanup; hope you don't mind.)

I'm working on some brief language for "Breaking a Tow Lock", but I've got social obligations this evening so it could be a couple of days before we see it installed. I'll also have an alternate version ready if (heaven forfend!) Joshua changes things on us. (I'll leave that commented out.)

1655 days, 19 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Just a note that there (seems) to be no mention anywhere on the birdman or advantages page that I could find of the Birdman partial planet immunity (Immunity for ships WITH beams and WITHOUT fuel).

1655 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Temaperacl,

> there (seems) to be no mention anywhere on the birdman or advantages page that I could find of the Birdman partial planet immunity

That's because there's no description of that advantage. It's not listed in the old Birdmen page or the old ship database.

http://planets.nu/documentation/birdmen
http://planets.nu/ships

Please provide a detailed description of the advantage and we'll verify it in game, and with Joshua.

1655 days, 19 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Operation of the advantage:

A birdman ship that possesses beams and has no fuel cannot be attacked by a planet/starbase.

This advantage does NOT apply to birdman ships that do not possess beams or to ones that have fuel. It has no effect on ship-to-ship combat.

1655 days, 18 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

It will be a week or so before we can make the change. To add a previously undocumented advantage, we need to verify that it exists, then verify that it's intentional.

What I've been able to verify so far is that this advantage is not listed in the JavaScript client.

I'm swamped working on finishing up the ship and race advantages, and locating good guides. Does anyone have time to put together a test game to verify this? As I see it, there are two steps to this verification.

1. Verify that the NUK FC on a planet doesn't destroy a fuelless Birdman ship with beams only.

2. Verify that a planet does destroy a similar Colonial ship.

1655 days, 17 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> With the exception of the super refit mission, they all match the template.

The Super Refit mission now matches the template as well.

> you do tend to be a bit careless with closing tags

The HTML editor uses RED to show incorrect tags. It has a bug in that if a list (OL or UL) is inside a paragraph (P), the paragraph's closing tag is shown in red. Not only is this not an error (it works fine), but this structure yields the best spacing.

Please point out to me a few files with missing closing tags and I'll have a look at them.

1655 days, 17 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

OK; that was the thing that I'd noticed. The others were likely typos, as likely mine as anyone's, and I cleaned them up as I went.

1655 days, 17 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

While researching the Super Spy Command, I found out that a planet FC of NTP is supposed to stop that planet from sending fighters against attackers, and only use beams for defense. Can anyone verify that this is what the NTP FC actually does? If so, it should be documented this way in the FC page.

1655 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I remember in one game a long time ago a player was trying to make it easier for me to take his planets by putting NTP and I remember it did launch some fighters so it did not totally work.

Unless it stops the SB launching its short range fighters but defence bases still act as fighters.

Things may have changed since then.

1655 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The bug in the HTML editor has been documented in the page on editing HTML.

1655 days, 16 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Temaperacl,

I found documentation that the advantage you described is real and correct.

http://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/2300768-super-spy-mission-and-fueless-resolute

This needs to be added to the Bird Men as a zero-cost advantage.

1655 days, 16 hours, 29 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hotkeys: Starmap section.

I: Time machine to previous turn.
O: Time machine to next turn.

-
Singularity

1655 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I found documentation for the NTP command on planets and starbases:

http://planets.nu/discussion/bug-superspy-may-not-work-correct-with-command-ntp-and-not-original-bird-men-ships

This appears to be VERY specific. Should it go into the global FC list?

1655 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Singularity,

Nice catch. Added.

1655 days, 15 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The single-race Campaign advantages have been completed. They have some data in them, but that data may not always be accurate or adequately detailed. I await feedback from the community.

This leaves only the five multi-race advantages relating to starbases, which I'll get to tonight.

1655 days, 7 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Temaperacl,

The requested information has been added.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/adv-partial-planet-immunity

Please verify that this is correct. Additionally, if you can provide any additional "color" for the second paragraph, it would be appreciated.

Finally, what good does this do you? The starship can't do anything useful, as fuel is needed to beam colonists to the surface or create a minefield.

1655 days, 7 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

There's a variety of tactics from this, but for instance, you can tow a cloaked vessel through a minefield onto a planet, running out of fuel as you arrive. Your cloaked vessel will remain cloaked (no risk of hitting a mine), and your towing ship will be immune to all combat, since ships can't initiate against an unfueled ship, and neither can the planet. Then you can transfer fuel from your cloaked vessel, supplies, and beam down stuff, tow ships away, start combat, minesweep and move off a bit, transfer fuel and recloak and wait, whatever.

1655 days, 5 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'll take another look on it after work - my compliments on the fast updating of it.

Hmm.. What I've used it for the most recently is carting in large numbers of clans via Neutronic Refineries and Merlins for GA'ing enemy starbases - have a ship cloaked at the planet to provide fuel once the colonist transport arrives there.

I've also used it for continuous minesweeping from an enemy planet - have two ships around the planet. One of them has a destination in the WW (fuel cost: 1), mission minesweep, the other stays cloaked. Alternate which one is sweeping each turn to prevent towing. Since you start with fuel, force surrender doesn't work, you don't have to worry about the Ships parked at the SB until you are ready to do so.

1654 days, 17 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The racial advantages are now complete. Please notify us of any missing or incorrect information, including how to activate the advantage.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/dashboard-advantages

1654 days, 17 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

My plan has been to revise the individual race pages all at once, and I've been working on language and format here in my spare time. The idea has been that I'd upload the completed descriptions once they're finished.

However, it's come to my attention that there's a lot of information missing from them, and that this is potentially crippling to a new player.

So, to start with, I've modified the Solar Federation page as an example of an interim format. http://play.planets.nu/#/howtoplay/feds

Please take a look and let me know if it seems too obscure. Bear in mind that this is temporary language, but that any response may inform my decisions with regard to later changes.

1654 days, 16 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Please take a look and let me know if it seems too obscure

1. Instead of describing the racial advantages, I'd suggest a list of links. This makes long-term maintenance easier, as the description is in one place.

2. The ship list should be either completed or removed. If completed, it can either be details about each ship, details about the race-specific chips and a link to the general ships, or a list of links to details about ships. I think the second will work best. I can provide the table on that if you'd like.

3. There's no mention of the Campaign features.

4. Near the end, you might want to have a list of links to the appropriate Guide sections (Getting started, Building your economy, Build Queue Control, Weapons and the appropriate race guide)

1654 days, 16 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I believe that each race description page needs the following information in it. The order should be fairly consistent across the pages, making it easier to find specific information.

General race description. This is where the "color" is added. Information that helps to describe the attitude of the race.

Racial advantages. A list of the racial advantages. Each item would be just a link. No details here.

Ship list. Described above.

Campaign advantages. A list of links, similar tot he Racial advantages. This should also have details on the Campaign ships, similar to the ship list.

Guides. A list of links to the guides that are appropriate to the specific race.

1654 days, 16 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

1. Guides description above is in error. Should be:

Guides. A list of links to the local guide pages (lists themselves) that are appropriate to the specific race.

2. To help decide about how to structure the ship list, there are 166 unique hulls, with 112 base hull designs. I for one don't look forward to creating 166 individual hull pages.

1654 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Barring the guides, that's more or less what I'm planning. (Since we can't control third-party content, and since three-quarters of the raceguides out there are absolute rubbish, the most I can see in that direction is a single discreet link at the bottom to a raceguide subpage, which fortunately someone built.)

I'm also thinking that the new one-ship plan is the way to go there, with an embedded link to a sub-page that may contain a complete ship list.

I was hoping more to find out if the present format with links embedded in text is sufficiently hard to understand that it needs to be altered on an emergency basis. If not, I'll do minor changes (like this) pending the review project.

1654 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I'm also thinking that the new one-ship plan is the way to go there, with an embedded link to a sub-page that may contain a complete ship list.

I appear to have missed the memo. Please describe this.

1654 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I was hoping more to find out if the present format with links embedded in text is sufficiently hard to understand that it needs to be altered on an emergency basis.

This page is OK, but I'd just leave them alone until the new pages are ready to be loaded. I see no reason to waste days working on non-essential incremental improvements when there's a full redesign just around the corner.

I'd like to see one "final format" page. It can be put into a test page, not using the production name, to keep everything clean.

1654 days, 16 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Lots of messages, mostly between myself and Dotman, from 22 days ago.

I'm not planning to build the subpage, mind; I just hope to keep the race pages brief. They're meant to be introductory, after all, and it's no service to put a picture of a MDSF on every single page where it needs to be scrolled past...

In principle, I aim to avoid "Wall Of Text Syndrome", otherwise known as "TL;DR".

1654 days, 16 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> Lots of messages, mostly between myself and Dotman, from 22 days ago.

One ship picture as a "teaser" (I think it should be the largest warship - a carrier for carrier-based races and a battleship for torp races).

One table of ships?

A per-ship verbal description?

1654 days, 14 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yes, one ship pic as a teaser; biggest warship, MBR for privs, that kind of thing. And some bit of interesting text about the ship.

This is on my list of things to do, I just haven't got to it this week.

1654 days, 13 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Here's a sample of most of what I was thinking.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/feds-test

We still need:

Teaser picture. Just under the "Ships" header?

Detailed descriptions of the ships, after the table.

Links to guides.

1654 days, 13 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

We need to do something to narrow the ToC column. It's causing the pages to be too limited.

1652 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Megalomaniac - Thanks for the input. There's some interesting interactions involved in the PQ version of cloning that still need to be thoroughly tested and perhaps someday detailed in a guide, but I believe the present version of the documentation is correct.

My explorations thus far, when compared to my documentation of earlier tests conducted at the time of the post-limit cloning discussion, reveal that some minor fundamental changes in build queue construction have occurred. It will be interesting to explore those.

1652 days, 19 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hi

Joshua's clarification was BEFORE PQ games existed so he could have changed things and I definitely recommend getting a new clarification from him. I don't play PQ or campaign as of yet. I do however think his intent was to make advanced cloning more valuable (and worth purchasing) by making sure to eliminate post ship limit standard cloning (as you likely recall, it took some time to fully squelch this one). I would guess this would hold true for PQ games but no experience there.

With regards to the sequence of builds (Advanced Cloning>regular build>standard clone) mentioned in the last post I could find by him, I don't see why the advent of PQ games would make him change this sequence in pbp games and don't see why a PQ game should change the sequence either. However it is best to test this as you are already doing or have him clarify this.

Cheers,

MEGA

1652 days, 18 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@MEGA - I think it was the patch to squelch post-limit cloning that modified things, and I know the removal of the second-phase priority-build subphase altered things a great deal in the internal PQ order -- cross-checks and so on.

The thing is, an in-depth analysis of the Host Order is inconsistent with our mandate for the documentation; @Joshua has specifically informed us that he's not opening up the Host for our perusal -- and I'd say that's a very wise move. So, like it or not, there's going to be some holes left in the documentation.

It's kind of a Planets tradition, so that's not a bad thing. :o)

1652 days, 18 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Editors:
I've composed a content guide entitled "Editorial Guidelines", to be found under the Admin Interface. I'd appreciate it if you'd take a look and see if there's anything objectionable in it.

1652 days, 18 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

Good start on your editorial-guidelines page. I consider most of it to be obvious, but it's good to have it documented somewhere. There are a few items that I'd like either clarification on, and a few that I believe need minor adjustments, but as it's not "finished" yet, you should continue down the path you're. I saw nothing there that I consider to be fatal, or even major, problems.

1652 days, 16 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Cool. Thanks, @Whisperer. Yeah; I'd wanted it recorded for future generations of editors, perhaps (considering the longevity of the game thus far) yet unborn.

We're down to two major pages left unwritten: Scoreboard and Plugins/AddOns. I'm competent to do Scoreboard, and when I get around to it, if nobody else has started, I'll do it. After that, if there's no other major projects that present themselves, I'll get started on the review.

Speaking of new major projects:
We might consider documenting the website as well as the game. We've got the Leaderboard already, and I'd think such items as the "game details interface" (for want of a better title) might deserve pages.

1652 days, 9 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> We might consider documenting the website as well as the game.

Yes. Game first. Extras later.

> Plugins/AddOns

Isn't Dotman doing this? IMHO, he's the best qualified among us for that job. There's a LOT that needs to be described for that page.

Where to find Plugins/AddOns
Installation with different browsers (at least Chrome, Firefox and IE)
Where to find the documentation on the API
Sample simple plugin

1652 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

I put some comments and minor changes into your editorial-guidelines page. Please have a look.

1652 days, 8 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Whisperer - Initial response. You've given me food for thought (and I'm testing an em tag). Also, I'm interested in your response to my "Oxford comma" example.

1652 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The new starship Campaign advantages have the advantage cost in the page. I realized that this would be useful in the racial advantages, and am in the process of putting them in.

1652 days, 3 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Can someone please update the ship descriptions to include the production point costs of ships, according to the new production queue system?

(Sorry I should have added this comment here)

1652 days, 1 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

It's the right place for the comment, @Landgrab, but I don't believe it's necessary. The formula is simple and a table would be huge; modifying an existing table would be problematic.

I'll try to clarify the formulas in the queue pages if you think that would help. I fear HTML5 may not speak TeX, though. :o\

PQ: [ 1 + (Ship Mass) / 50 ] rounded up
PBP: [ (Ship Mass) / 50 ] rounded up

1650 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

If we ever create verbal descriptions of the various starships, the PBP/PQ information could go in there. The starship tables have too much information in them already.

1647 days, 19 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"scoreboard" is up. Debating a quick subpage on raw score, but I find I just don't care enough.

I've begun the general review. This will take some time.

1646 days, 21 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Review of the first draft is underway.

There are still some minor campaign ship abilities that require documentation. If nobody else catches them, I'll fill them up one at a time.

Master TODO list is being augmented with research items as I find them. Anyone with spare time can undertake this research for us. I'd be glad to take volunteers from the general public to run test games, probably starting next weekend; likewise, I'd be happy to have the opinion of senior players on these subjects before the test games are run. Please message me directly if you might be interested in volunteering.

1646 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> There are still some minor campaign ship abilities that require documentation.

I documented all the ones that I could figure out.

I expect that there are still a few holes in the documentation, but as the Community finds them, I've been fixing them.

> Review of the first draft is underway.

I think we need to do something about the ToC. The order is all wrong. Currently, the Intro is followed by the "exciting" pieces. I believe we need to lay a good foundation before we climb into Combat.

1646 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Tough to argue with that second bit. @Dotman had wanted starships to be the #2 section. I'd like there to be some narrative flow to the document, but beyond that I'm not too picky.

1646 days, 17 hours, 47 minutes ago

mr.universe

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Guys, can some editor add a line to the ship cloning page, that one cant clone after 450 ships have been build? This information can be really useful...
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/cloning

1646 days, 17 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

So far as I know, Mr. U, that's not true. One actually CAN clone at that point, I believe. It's not until the Ship Limit is actually reached that the ability goes away.

Of course, that by itself pretty much eliminates cloning as a factor in a standard game.

1646 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes ago

mr.universe

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

At one of my games(new PQP system) i had 10 bases set for clone, some of them for several turns in a roll. After ship ~460 it stoped coning, giving me 2 ppoints for base(not a nice tw mbr for example).None of the bases cloned anything more. I red the article the first turn it happened and still left some bases to clone(not giving other build orders) and next turn i get the ppoints again and no mbr(or a Trex, that i could order if stated properly)

1645 days, 19 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'm working on the Customization page. It was missing many of the parameters. I'm adding those parameters and adding links.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/customization

This page would look so much better if the Definition List tags worked :(

1645 days, 17 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hail,

Would it be possible to maintain the User name/handle on the headers just to the right of the UPGRADE header? The new how to play page has removed it. The benefit of that link is it allowed you to view your profile very quickly without having to go through the races-->top officers and scrolling etc... Also, it allows you to see your experience which is no longer listed on the updated officer achievement pages. For instance, mine links to http://planets.nu/user/megalomaniac

I find the new ship database pages very nice but still keep the old one on my firefox tabs because I have my name after the upgrade header and link that way. Perhaps the old pages will disappear?

I would go one step further and ask if the Plato link could be added somewhere (if not already there) for quick look up of all your user info (achievements, experience, blitz and tenacity)

http://plato.d10.is/planets/loaduser.php

Cheers,

MEGA

1645 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Megalomaniac,

> Would it be possible to maintain the User name/handle on the headers just to the right of the UPGRADE header?

Your request has to do with adding/maintaining game functionality. This is not the correct thread to make such requests.

> Perhaps the old pages will disappear?

We don't know what Joshua plans. Sorry.

> I would go one step further and ask if the Plato link could be added somewhere (if not already there) for quick look up of all your user info (achievements, experience, blitz and tenacity)

If we can find an appropriate place in the documentation for this link, we can probably do it, but I believe that this is an interface that Joshua should supply and support.

1643 days, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I just noticed a page called "Terms Of Use and Privacy Policy", and I'm wondering who's working on it.

1643 days, 19 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I moved it intact from the old site. Didn't I sign it at the top?

1642 days, 19 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Do we need a page on Teams? IIRC, there are some special interactions and limitations in that format that should probably be documented.

1642 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

It would be nice. I've got knowledge enough to fill two sentences, which is what we've got in the "game options" page. I have played in team games before, but there's not much that I know that needs to be explained.

For example: In some cases, I believe the "Ally" option under Diplomacy will be greyed out, but I'm not sure which cases these are.

1642 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I added a line at the top of "The Nu Scenario" as a navigation link. This was discussed some time ago, but never done. As the documentation is approaching completion, I think it's time to start looking into this.

Each page is to be a section base, or is to have a logical parent, going back to a section base. Each link in the chain is to have a HREF at the top of the page.

Opinions?

1642 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Does anyone know the state of the Copyright notice? Should we have Broseph check it out? Has Joshua accepted it?

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/CopyrightNotice

1642 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I think it would be useful to have a "Legal" section, containing the Copyright notice, the Terms of Use and the Credits. Will that work for everyone?

1642 days, 18 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Going through the documentation, I've noticed that there's some inconsistency. Both light-year and kilo-ton are usually abbreviated, but the abbreviation is found in both all upper-case and all lower-case. I believe we should use one or the other, but not both. Which would work better, ly/kt or LY/KT?

1642 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Lowercase is accepted for both of these as scientific abbreviations.

1642 days, 17 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Credits don't fit in Legal; personally, I'm also opposed because moving them will reduce them in apparent value. I want my signature on something, dammit; why am I doing this of not for the fame and adulation of the masses? :o)

Last I heard from Joshua, he mentioned that he was quite busy at present. I doubt the copyright notice would be a high priority.

1642 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Gnerphk,

> Credits don't fit in Legal

OK. Can the others move?

> I want my signature on something, dammit

Your name is in a LOT of comments.

> why am I doing this of not for the fame and adulation of the masses?

Perhaps to have an excuse to work more while the GF's parents are around? ;)

> Last I heard from Joshua, he mentioned that he was quite busy at present. I doubt the copyright notice would be a high priority.

OK. Should Broseph check it out? He's in the law field, and might be able to point out things that we (and Joshua) would miss.

Joshua is posting to the AI-Mentored games. I don't know if these are canned messages, or if he takes the time to look at the situation and determine exactly what to write. If they're canned, I don't know whether or not he's automated them.

1642 days, 16 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

>Can the others move?

Fine by me. Subpage to Intro, perhaps? Up to you, of course - just a suggestion.

>Should Broseph check it out?

We should, ideally, get two opinions. He's expressed an interest, so why not him? Of course, a specialist would be ideal, but life often isn't ideal.

>AI-Mentored games

He manually mentored one and created the canned responses from his experience. My understanding is that he's monitoring the rest, which is one hell of a lot of work. We really need to help pick up the slack.

1639 days, 9 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Minor detail: On the engine table, transwarp should be listed as tech 10, not tech 9.

1639 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Fixed. Thank you.

1639 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Guys, I think the response from joshua in this thread should be added to mindefiled page http://planets.nu/discussion/minefield-limit

1638 days, 18 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I'll get this. It effects three pages, and made me realize that there's no page for the Lay Web Mines mission.

1638 days, 18 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

"Ok. I'll make it a sort of soft limit. The limit can temporarily go > 500 for mines laid this turn and excess mines will be removed at the beginning of the next host run. Smallest first, but only those minefields with no enemy ship within 200ly, so it could actually go over 500 for a while if the entire map is at war (highly unlikely). We'll run that for another 500 games and see if we ever have a problem. This plan will go into effect for all games, even those in progress. So Emork and Bondservant, expect to see a few old minefields disappear in those 2 games. "

That's the one you mean, I take it, Figak?

1638 days, 17 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The webmines and minefields pages have been completed. In addition, I added information to the minefields page about mutual Safe Passage allowing minefields to overlap (not relevant to webmines). Please verify that it's clear:

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/minefields
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/web-mines

The Lay Mines page needs a bit more work.

Any ideas about the Lay Web Mines mission? Should we have a separate page for it, or should we just link to the Lay Mines mission and have a short blurb about the differences?

1638 days, 17 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hrm. A proper and perfect structure would require a separate page. However, so long as we've got an Advantage page and a blurb on Lay Mines with the differences (as you say), I don't believe there's any actual NEED to aim for perfection in this. Instead, let's just cross-reference to the Advantage, to Minefields, and to Web Mines.

I'll take a look a bit later on; working today, alas.

1638 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Note on abbreviations:

The "ly" abbreviation for Light Year can be confusing. This is because it's often used with a number, and the letter 'l' is similar to the digit '1'. I would like to suggest that we do not abbreviate the term 'light year' to remove this possible source of confusion.

TTBOMK, that leaves the list of abbreviations still in use at: dur, kt, moly and tri.

1638 days, 17 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The Lay Mines mission is now done and ready for review.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/lay-mines

1638 days, 17 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

wow u guys are fast.

well you have to read the whole thread to get it specially the responses from joshua

1638 days, 16 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> you have to read the whole thread to get it specially the responses from Joshua

I just finished the thread, and added the 1000 mine max for minefield removal.

> wow u guys are fast

Thank you. We try. You just happen to catch me when I was trying to figure out my schedule for the day. I believe I'm also 9 timezones behind you.

1638 days, 16 hours, 7 minutes ago

emork the lizard king

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Description of pillage says:

> The happiness of the colonists and natives will be decreased by 10%.

It's 10 happiness points, not 10%.

1638 days, 16 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

On it, Emork. Good catch.

1638 days, 15 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I expect there are several places in the documentation where similar problems exist.

1638 days, 15 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The Plunder Planet and RGA pages have been fixed similarly, but I don't expect this to be the last of these fixes.

1638 days, 14 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I was just looking at the host order for star base mine laying and sweeping and it does not tell which is first (ships or star bases)

1638 days, 13 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Lots of good data in that post. I'll dig through it after I finish making a turn.

1637 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Johnqpublic,

That's a 2 year old post from Joshua. I don't think he's going to fix it. I documented it correctly.

1637 days, 18 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

...not that you're wrong, JohnQ. But we did catch it. :o)

1637 days, 12 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I also would like to say thank you for all your efforts. You've done a superb job and will make this game so much easier to play for new players

1636 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes ago

nanning

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Could the entry for the Crystal Sapphire ship have a tag "webmine immunity" and perhaps a paragraph in the Webmines and/or Crystal Confederation page?

1636 days, 18 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Nanning,

> Could the entry for the Crystal Sapphire ship have a tag "webmine immunity"

Because of the way Joshua set up the ship DB, we don't have the ability to change it. All we can do is request that he change it. As he hasn't acted on any of the other such requests we've made for changes to the ship DB, I don't expect anything to happen quickly.

> perhaps a paragraph in the Webmines and/or Crystal Confederation page?

We'll have to see where it fits best.

For the purposes of retaining critical data, the ship announcement and documentation may be found here:

http://planets.nu/post/emperor-spacesquads-new-ship

1636 days, 7 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hey guys, I get a lot of questions from new players about the "Ready Checkbox". I wonder if there is a place to include documentation on how to use it:

http://planets.nu/post/the-ready-checkbox-has-arrived

1636 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

We've been working on ideas for including it. With the info in that post and a quick copy-paste, I can probably knock that one right off our to-do list. :o)

1636 days, 5 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Page is up; modifying the ToDo list. I'll go back and finish proofing it later.

It's nested under the Planetary/Ship Interface and Starbase pages, any of which can be found under Starmap documentation. The basic descriptions of the checkbox functionality have been left intact in the main interface pages, with a sublink to the new detail page incorporated.

This is probably not prominent enough, but it's the logical place to put it.

1636 days, 5 hours, 20 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Planetary structure decay rate is 3, not 1.

In default configuration.

-
Singularity

1636 days, 5 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Sorta true. 3 is for uninhabited, as I recall; 1 is for "too few clans" rather than "no clans". We've got this on the to-test list.

1636 days, 5 hours, 10 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

taxes page:
>Bad climates decrease happiness. The further your planet's temperature is from 50, the less happy people will be.

Should probably say "(or 100 in the case of Crystals and Silicoids)"

-
Singularity

1636 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> taxes page ...

Fixed. Also included Siliconoids.

1635 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> it's time to put together a detail page on happiness and taxes, with the equations

While working on this, I'm figuring out better ways to describe some of the contributing stuff. Just from the first day of research, I've been able to improve the native-governments and taxes pages. I expect there are similar changes coming for other pages.

1635 days, 17 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Changes are ongoing for a lot of pages. I'm concentrating on textual consistency, but when I see an error in passing I'm correcting it. The end project is going to be a complete reworking of each of the individual race pages.

The Crystals and Siliconoids each have some interesting happiness quirks, Crystals especially. You might want to take some time to verify. I'll trust your work, though -- if you're satisfied, I don't plan to make any special effort to proof it.

1635 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> The end project is going to be a complete reworking of each of the individual race pages

Did you have a chance to look at feds-test? Will that work as a template?

I'll look at the Crystals and Siliconoids after I get the tax, happiness and population growth formulae figured out.

1635 days, 16 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Some good ideas in it that I'll definitely integrate. I'm working on a serious version of a text rewrite, so I'm concentrating more on words than on format at the moment, but I did like what I saw from a functional standpoint.

Word flow is going to be paramount for these eleven pages. Preliminary revised versions for at least a couple will be available soon.

(I'm also hoping @Dotman hasn't forgotten us. :o)

1635 days, 13 hours, 33 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> I'm working on a serious version of a text rewrite, so I'm concentrating more on words than on format at the moment

That's fine. The point is that the advantages should be described in the links, not in the body.

I'd like to see a prototype, as soon as you have one that's ready.

1635 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Yeah; that's my thought too. It's a matter of links, though -- there are some times where the emphasis is inappropriate. (You may remember me going on about that at some length; I'll spare you this time.)

My big puzzle now is rewriting the race descriptions. These are all homages to archetypal sci-fi races -- which is part of what we love -- but we don't want to make the mistake of moving into copyright infringement.

1634 days, 14 hours, 24 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

in the FAQ page there is a bad html link to the glory device page.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/http://play.planets.nu/#/admin/docs/glory-device

should be http://play.planets.nu/#/howtoplay/glory-device

Singularity

1634 days, 14 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Odd.

1634 days, 14 hours, 13 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@G yeah I am, thanks :)

1633 days, 18 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> it's time to put together a detail page on happiness and taxes, with the equations

It's beginning to take shape, but there's too much data there. I expect this page will be broken out into details pages for planetary structures and defense posts.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/taxes-details

NOTE: We're not being consistent about the defense. Are they "Defense Posts" or "Defense Outposts"? I think the former works better, and am using that term.

Opinions?

1633 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

@Singularity,

> in the FAQ page there is a bad html link to the glory device page.
>
> http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/http://play.planets.nu/#/admin/docs/glory-device

I looked at it, and the HTML looks right. I followed the link, and it worked correctly. For now, I think we'll call this a glitch. If it happens again, please inform us.

1633 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hi, something to add on diplomacy, share intel part to explain how intel leakage happens. Simply as a link will do unless someone want to wordsmith an explanation. http://planets.nu/#/activity/1506548

1633 days, 17 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Also we need to explain one-sided diplomacy. This is when one player increases diplomacy status and while the other doesn't.

Some people have the misperception that this will be "OFFERING" intel (for example) and that none is passed until the other party corresponds. While, in reality, it is GIVING AWAY intel from the word go.

Same applies for safe passage/full alliances.

I had two people do the above in NU, spoiled the fun ;)

Also the statment: "Full Alliances only begin to function once both parties have given a full alliance to each other." is misleading. This is true in terms of win conditions, but false in terms of one sided diplomacy.

Finally note that full two-sided alliances are announced to the entire game, while share intel is not announced.

I wish I had the time to edit, but barely have time to play at the moment.

1633 days, 15 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

I agree, Figak. That does need more detail. I'll steal what you wrote and incorporate it, if you've no objection.

1633 days, 15 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

RE: Defense Outpost -- It's from some old documentation, and it doesn't seem improper. Strikes me as a potentially useful variant only if you wish to avoid unnecessary repetition. The game, I believe, just calls them "Defense".

1633 days, 15 hours, 39 minutes ago

xray

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hey guys, I'm relatively new here and I was hoping someone would update the page on Friendly Codes.

There was a query about a guy having trouble with the lfm code (set to planet and ally ship, but ship was unable to acquire minerals. Is the lfm code restricted like nuk and att? I couldn't find anything about it.

I believe if you provide a friendly code of a planet to an ally, that gives them the ability to transfer to and from the planet, n'est pas? I think I read that somewhere but I don't see any mention of it under the friendly code section of the how-to-play documentation.

Thanks for all the work you're doing. It's very helpful to all of us.

1633 days, 14 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

lfm only works on your ships and your planets. If you own a ship but the planet if your ally matches lfm - it would not work.

You have to transfer right minerals to the ship every turn

1633 days, 13 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hail,

It does work if you both have full alliance. Since this tends to happen only in the countdown phase, folks (self included even though I started the test thread a while back) often forget. Must be full alliance then lfm works

Cheers,

MEGA

1633 days, 13 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Hail,

It does work if you both have full alliance. Since this tends to happen only in the countdown phase, folks (self included even though I started the test thread a while back) often forget. Must be full alliance then lfm works BETWEEN ALLIES

Cheers,

MEGA

added the last part since folks might only see the last post in a feed this length.. going for a record it appears

1633 days, 13 hours, 9 minutes ago

xray

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Thanks for the replies. I'm clear on LFM now. I don't know how you all know that stuff b/c it's certainly not in the documentation. What other quirks about the friendly codes do y'all know about that are not documented? If I give an ally a friendly code like "pq8" will that enable him to access all resources of the planet? I think that's how it works but could be wrong.

1633 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

If the other player (friend or foe) matches the FC of the planet they can perform any gather missions, but only 1 at a time, of course. Of course, if you have a starbase there set to Force Surrender, the ship would get surrendered to the owner of the starbase.

1632 days, 18 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

> it's time to put together a detail page on happiness and taxes, with the equations

The Colonist section is done. I'll be working on the Native section next.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/taxes-details

1632 days, 8 hours, 0 minutes ago

singularity

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

On the checkbox page ships also wake up from double tick if they are a terra former and the planet reaches optimal temperature.

I also think the checkbox page should be in the toc under star map > checkbox rather than buried under planets > planetary interface > checkbox. Its such a useful feature that all new (and old) players should know how to use it.

Singularity

1631 days, 3 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

The equations for planetary structures and for defense posts have been moved into their own pages.

http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/planetary-structure-details
http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/defense-outposts-details

Some of the information from the defense outposts page should be moved into the details page.

1630 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Documentation Editing Thread: I'm using this post to...

Due to the length of this thread, we'd like to discontinue its use, and move to the Part 2 thread.

http://planets.nu/#/activity/1810471