Offering basic Colonies Walkthroughs

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2598 days, 4 hours, 50 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
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In the spirit of Mycroft's great thread for the Birds, and in preparation for (hopefully) fruitful discussions which may ultimately lead to a proper document in the future, I'd like to offer some thoughts over the course of the next 1-2 weeks in separate installations about

o Player mentality - whether or not your personal disposition suits playing the Colonies
o Race advantages/disadvantages - and how well do you fare against the other races
o Discussion of the Colonies shiplist - and what you should trade for with other players
o Planning your expansion vectors
o How to start - some detailed suggestions on your initial build queue for your first steps
o Transition to the early game - how to get your infrastructure going
o Transition to the middle game - how to optimize your logistics
o Transition to the late game - hitting the ship limit

I should add that I consider myself a competent player, but nowhere near the big experts in this game. Therefore, constructive criticism and any other contributions are highly welcome and explicitly invited.
2598 days, 4 hours, 20 minutes ago
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turssi
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Would be nice to understand some finer points than just my current idea of building freighters, Virgos and Cobols and just blast everything as soon as possible, so go ahead!
2598 days, 3 hours, 43 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
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So let's start with the first chapter, which is particularly aimed at the total beginners:

Player Mentality - Whether or not Your Personal Disposition Suits Playing the Colonies

One of the reasons which make VGAplanets such a special game is that there are so many races which play completely differently. Especially beginners tend to just pick a race they recognize from movies and TV series and then try to play it. However, whether or not this is turning into a pleasurable experience is primarily determined by whether or not your personal playing style "fits" the chosen race. The more your personal disposition is in synch with the race's strength, the more successul you will be, and consequently, the more you are going to enjoy it. So let's discuss whether or not the Colonies are the right pick for you.

Race Attributes: What Is Special About Playing The Colonies?

o You are a carrier race. Your primary warships are the Battlestars from the movies (here called "Virgo"), which are among the most powerful fighter carriers in the game, and which are very cheap, so you will have LOTS of them.

o You can build fighters on your ships, so you have easy and cheap access to fighters to put on your carriers. Unlike other races, you can also bild LOTS of them quickly, on an industrial scale.

o Played correctly, you will never have fuel shortages, because you have the only ship in the game which actually GENERATES fuel during flight - the Cobol. It even comes with a Bio scanner as extra, helping you identify planets with natives quickly.

o You are good at sweeping mines, because every fighter on your carriers which are set to Mine Sweep will destroy 20 mines for each enemy minefield in 100 Light Years. As a rule of thumb, wherever you appear to fight, enemy mines will disappear like snowballs in hell. Normal mines, that is. The Crystal's web mines can not be fighter swept.

So what does that mean? What kind of race are the Colonies overall?

You are a powerful industrialist. You bash in your opponents' heads with your superior fighter carriers, which you generate by building a powerful industry, powered by your abundance of fuel due to the Cobols. No other player save the Borg can haul as much minerals, supplies and colonists around as quickly, so you can expand rapidly. Also, with your excellent ship list you can convert minerals efficiently into powerful warships and fighters, and so, you are poised to win almost any war of attrition in an open 1:1 fight against another opponent. You are extremely difficult to stop when you're on the offensive, because most defense strategies employed by other races like extensive minefields and fuel denial during falling back will not work against you.

You're great at expanding. Rapid expansion means more minerals and credits, means more bases, means more ships, means even more expansion. Strong industry and logistics directly translates into more power, even more so for you than for other races.

On the downside, you have no access to cloakers yourself, and you also have no good means to defend against cloaking races once they have infiltrated your space. You have no Lokis to uncloak them, no Glory devices to trigger against them, and no web mines to hamper them - you only have normal mines (which experienced cloaker races players know how to deal with). You also have no tricky brilliant special abilities, you're rather the straightforward, simple fighter type with open visor. So choose your allies wisely to fill your gaps, and actively trade with your neighbors.

So which personal disposition would be suited for playing the Colonies?

+ You like to command powerful big warships and are the type who likes seeing Monster Trucks flattening other cars. You don't brake for others, you MAKE others brake for you. And then just roll over them anyway.
+ You enjoy planning logistics, hauling tons of minerals, supplies and colonists around. Seeing Cobols towing huge Super Transport Freighters around to far away planets is a beautiful sight to behold.
+ You prefer simplicity and don't want to juggle multiple problems around. You rather want to play YOUR game without too much consideration on what the other players are doing. You want to make them adopt to YOUR play, rather than adopt your play to theirs.
+ When attacking, you don't want to care about stuff like host order, picking your targets carefully, intercept and tow tricks and other shenanigans. Here's your carrier, there's the enemy, attack. And if something still moves, send the next few carriers in, you have more of them anyway. That's how real men fight.
+ You like to play in "easier" games. The colonies are highly efficient in beginner games. The higher the skill level of the other players are, the weaker the Colonies get.

And when should I stay away from them?

- You enjoy sneaking into enemy territory, spying them out and then sniping your foes from safety.
- You don't want to bother with industry logistics more than necessary.
- You're a Jiu-Jitsu fighter who likes to adapt his strategy depending on what the other player does. Using your enemy's moves against him, stealing his ships and resources and then using them against him is what you love the most.
- You draw pleasure out of using any trick in the book to gain an advantage in battles.
- Your opponents are highly skilled, you play in upper-level games.

2597 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes ago
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greyghost
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'Would be nice to understand some finer points than just my current idea of building freighters, Virgos and Cobols and just blast everything as soon as possible, so go ahead!"

Don't overlook the Geminis and Patriots.  The former is an excellent fighter factory/minesweeper, and a decent armed freighter as well.  The latter is a nice, cheap little warship that can handle medium warships/planets most of the time, and if it blows up, you haven't really lost much.
2597 days, 6 hours, 17 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
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So, how should I deal with other races?

This part should probably be up for debate the most. I'd like to collect hints here about how to deal with races as allies, as enemies, and what you might want to trade for.

1) The Feds

As allies: There's no such thing as a useless ally, but the Feds don't offer much which you might be interested in. They will want your Cobol, your Virgo and your fighter building services, but except for maybe the Loki in narrow cases, they have little of interest to you in return.

+ If you have problems with Fascists or Privateers, get Lokis from the Feds ASAP. They are able to make a big difference.
+ In the late game, the Feds are great for refitting your Virgos and Cobols, and for financing the Mine Wars.
+ Before you trade away a Virgo to them, make sure you are 100% sure of your alliance. Fed-manned Virgos are monsters.

As enemies: A Virgo will defeat any of their ships, so you're fairly comfortable. Especially in the early game, you should have no problems taking them out. In the end game, they are much harder to crack.

- Fight with multiple Virgos. Single Virgos can efficiently be dealt with by a Missouri followed by a Kittyhawk, but multiple carriers pose a real problem to them. Create pairs of Transwarp-Virgos and Warp6-Virgos and give the Warp6-Virgos smaller Friendly Codes, so that they fight first.
- Don't attack over long ranges. With their financial power, the Feds can put out minefields which even your fighter minesweep can't fully remove. Move your attack groups to 4 LYs away from your target, and then adjust your Friendly Codes so that your mine-damaged ships come last. Use the supplies you find on the conquered worlds to fix your minehit damages.

2) The Lizards

As allies: Wonderful. Best ally. They offer cloakers, ground attack, hissers and hi-speed mining - even Lokis. They will want your fighterbuilding capabilities as well as Cobols and Virgos. The Lizards are immensely powerful early on, but get gradually weaker the longer the game lasts.

+ With their Lizard Class Cruisers, they can scout out your attack targets first, and can pull big obstacles like Gorbies into your waiting forces for a 1:1 trade against a Virgo.
+ During your campaigns, you'll sometimes conquer enemy bases with lots of hulls of small ships with beams (e.g. Terraformer hulls). Give them to the Lizard and let them hiss over your money planets. Likewise, if you built Lady Lucks, they are also best passed on to the Lizard for hissing duty.
+ Patriots are noticeably better in the hands of a Lizard. The 150% damage level bonus can make a real difference.
+ Offer to operate Geminis over their mineral-rich planets. They can minerals out fast, you can put them to a good use.
+ Again, only trade away Virgos if you are sure of your alliance. Lizard-Virgos are bad news.

As enemies: In the early game, pray that you can deflect their ire. Bribe, lie, steal, and use any trick in the book not to become their first target, because if you do, you will lose. The later in the game it is, the better your chances.

- Make sure to have as many colonists and defense posts as possible on important planets like bases. Keep in mind that every 20 defense posts mitigate some of the Lizard ground attack advantage. You must not lose bases to them (easier said than done)
- Try your hardest to gain the initiative and take the fight to the Lizard's territory where their ground attack doesn't come to pass. Do not attempt a passive/static defense, it will fail.
- Don't attack planets predictably like pearls on a string. Instead, bypass the initial front and try to get into the Lizard's rear. Position yourself so that you have a vast number of possible targets. Zig and zag around.
- Keep your Cobols safe, don't let them attack planets. They will be picked off by LCCs waiting to tow them to their demise. Keep them in deep space, defended by Virgos, or let them enter warp wells with warp1 if you're short on carriers.
- Confiscate any drop of fuel you find on conquered worlds. Virgos have gigantic fuel tanks. Convert supplies to cash and take them along if you're not sure you'll be able to keep the planet. Use the cash to have Cobols build torps.
- Have your Cobols lay minefields around planets you attack. Having LCC tows end in a mine hit feels great.

3) The Birds

As Allies: So-so. Their cloaking ability is helpful, so you will want to trade for cloakers. If you manage to convince them to let go of a Resolute, you scored a prize. Birds tend to be a bit short on fuel, so they will definitely want a Cobol, and they have no carriers worth speaking of, so they will drool for a Virgo.

+ Since Birds tend to first infiltrate the enemy, they will be able to tell you exactly where to strike with how much force. Use this knowledge.
+ Your minesweep ability will enable the Bird to operate freely. I once played a game where all I did to help a Bird was to offer a 400-fighter Gemini for minesweeping purposes which he towed around. It was tremendous.

As Enemies: You are most likely going to win, but it's going to be unpleasant. The only way to defeat the Bird is a nasty war of attrition forced into the Bird's home cluster. It will however leave your economy in your home cluster crippled, so you will come out battered no matter what.

- Sometimes you will have a Virgo lurking on your homebase with enough fighers (~60) to take out a Bird's Dark Wing. If you do and have other typical Bird targets like a Gemini or Merlin on your world, set all ships to Warp 1 and let them intercept each other, with the Virgo having the smallest friendly code. This might result in 2 killed Bird ships. Think about changing your intercept speed to warp6 next time, in case he tries again, this time outside the warp well ;)
- Change the friendly codes on your planets regularly (Randmax, how I miss you...)
- Anything from the enemy tips against the Lizard applies.

4) The Fascist

As Allies: Pretty good. Cloakers are useful, POPpers are very useful, and their pillage ability is also very helpful. Again, your Cobols and Virgos will be very sought after.

+ With your expansion game, you will have your share of anamorphous planets to use as pillage targets. Invite him over.
+ The POP ability of the fascist ships can help you win central battles, especially when the enemy isn't aware of your cooperation. Soften up the bulk of the enemy fleet, and then send your Virgos in for the kill.

As Enemies: Compared to fights against the Lizards and Birds, the Fascists are susceptible to Lokis. Just like the other cloakers, they have no real way of dealing with your Virgos without using multiple-ships setups, so you're favored in a war of attrition.

- Make sure to have your bases covered with enough colonists and defense posts. It's easily forgotten that the fascist is getting ground attack bonuses, too.
- Trade for Lokis quickly, if you have a Fed or Liz around.
- Anything from the enemy tips against the Lizard applies.

5) The Privateers

As Allies: A great match, second best ally. Enemies without Lokis are stuck between a rock and a hard place: You are favored in open attrition battles in deep space while the Privateers can rob enemies blind who don't leave their planets. And your fighter minesweep makes sure that the battle theater is free of hostile mines. To top it off, your Virgos help giving the Privs the military power punch they are lacking to break hard targets, and even for tricks they're useful since Virgos have bottomless fuel tanks. I've seen a single Virgo rob an entire enemy battlegroup dry. Negotiate with the Privs early, and don't forget to remind them that with your Cobols, you are no good target for them in the first place.

+ Get yourself Meteor Class Blockade Runners (MBRs) or enlist their help to speed up your expansion.
+ With MBR help, it's generally very easy to break through a front and hit only weakly protected planets in the enemy's core territory. Be advised however that the fighter minesweep only extends to 100LY, so if you use MBRs to fly maximum range (up to 162 LY), you might rush into unsweeped minefields there. And an MBR with a minehit is gone.
+ Have some clans on your ships, so that if you do break through, have your Priv ally ROB enemy ships on a target planet and follow up with attacking Virgos, you have enough colonists to drop so that the enemy can't clan-drop and save his behind by "Beam up Fuel" afterwards. This will leave them dry, and you reap great rewards.

As Enemies: Unpleasant. Protect your Virgos at all costs and try to trade for Lokis ASAP. Do NOT commit Virgos on attacks without having a big minefield active and having them full to the rim with fuel. Preferably try to use low-ID Virgos.

- Don't let the Priv tow a Virgo of yours far away to a wolfpack in deep space (hence the mines).
- Most non-base planets can be taken by Patriots, too. Consider using them instead, losing them isn't that much of a deal. Preferably while attacking 5-6 planets at the same time.
- Never fly with visible bearing in a straight line. Zig-zag often.
- Change the weight of your Virgos continuously, by shifting fuel around. You do not want the Privateer able to do a dead man's pull to 0 fuel right into a wolf pack (I've seen this happening all too often)

6) The Borg

Allies: Always nice to have the Borg as allies, but it usually means ending as second in a winning alliance at best. It supercharges your expansion with Firecloud capability, and you enable the Borg to prefer Biocide carriers over Annihilation torpships due to your fighterbuilding capacities.

+ Get these Fireclouds. Multiples. If you have to, clone them, otherwise give the Borg one of your bases to build them for you. Can't have too many of those.
+ Make sure to put good beams on your ships. Once a coalition between Borg and Colonies is uncovered, the Crystals become everyone's best friend. They will receive gigantic aid to webmine the universe into oblivion. And if you only have X-Rays, this can become embarrassing quickly, Cobols notwithstanding.
+ Give your poorest-government natives to the Borg. Anything below Tribal is more productive in Borgish hands.

Enemies: Kill him fast. Right out of the gate - because in the early game you can. You want to have multiple Virgos ravaging his planets between turns 20-30, and you want him in full retreat by turn 30. Be relentless and pursue fleeing freighters. Do NOT let him recover in the corner of the map.

- Generally, a Virgo will defeat an Annihilation in most cases. He will always lose against a Biocide.
- Use Virgos in 2-teams at least, 3 or 4 are even better. You do NOT want to have a single Virgo die bloodying a Biocide without having the next Virgo finishing him off.
- Before going to hunt, load Virgos with a bigger fighter complement than usual (normally 100 fighers per Virgo are enough to go, against Borg you'd prefer ~140). They tend to have much tougher planetary defenses than other races and will make you bleed more fighters than usual.

7) The Crystals

Allies: He doesn't really have much to offer to the Colonies, other than that he won't be an enemy. No fancy ship, no ability you can use... the only real advantage is that if the Crys is a safe ally, you can skimp on beams.

+ Again, attrition warfare favors you. Webmines allow you to intercept enemies in deep space
+ Often enough, big enemy warship groups caught in webs huddle together with only 1-2 big ships holding fuel, and the others only receiving 1 fuel each for minesweeping. In this case, intercepting with 1-2 Virgos can suddenly render entire fleets fuelless and prone to towcapture.
+ You can save critical Duranium and Molybdenum by going all-Xray on the beams, unless you have it in abundance.

Enemies: Rare. You generally want to attack other targets, and it's even more rare that the Crys goes on the offensive all by himself - in this case he usually has Cloakers.

- Get Lokis and minefields quickly if you learn of Crys cloakers.
- Obviously, beef up your beams.
- Always couple Virgos with Cobols. You want the Cobols to tow them and use the Virgos' huge fuel tanks as reserve. Have surplus supplies in your cargo to repair minehits.
- Avoid doing standalone attacks with Patriots. They will be caught and lost in no time.

8) The Empire

Allies: What for? Yes, they can give you Dark Sense info, but there's really almost nothing you can gain here. And if you can reach a planet unchecked with an SSD for an Imperial Assault, you could have just sent a Virgo instead, too. The partnership will be one-sided, since he'll need your Fuel and Cobols, and he'll also want your fighterbuilding capacity.

+ Get the Dark Sense info and write down the locations of the enemy bases. Create a battlegroup with Virgos and Cobols and go there. This, and the planets around, are what you need to destroy. Do it.
+ Still, for mere Dark Sense info, you don't need to ally. Trade for it.

Enemies: Normally the EE should be weaker than you militarywise, so there's not much to worry about UNLESS he has other allies to help him (e.g. cloakers or MBR-Support).

- You want more Transwarp Virgos than usual, to make sure that you can do proper Intercepts on SSDs.
- Beware of MBR-towed SSDs. They can be a real danger.
- If the situation forces you on the defense, fuel denial is key. Drain every drop off planets you lose against the advancing Empire.

9) The Robots

Allies: What for? You are almost identical, except that they have the minelay bonus for your minesweep. They have the better middle and large carriers, and you have the Cobol.

+ Yes, flying in friendly minefields is nice. Captain Obvious to the rescue.

Enemies: For real? You both want to do a mirror match? Your superior logistics should have resulted in a numerical advantage for you, while the Golem has higher fighting capacity (so this is one war of attrition you might actually lose). This battle will be decided by outside factors, like allies and placement.

- Try to see if you can enlist the help of the Crystals. Robot ships have notoriously few beam weapons and generally rely on their minelaying bonus to deal with foreign minefields. That, however, makes him vulnerable to web mines.

10) The Rebels

Allies: What for? Your only minor possible gain is the Falcon, but is that worth allying for? Other than that, you're almost carbon copies of each other.

Enemies: Another mirror match. Not much to be said.

- Make sure to put torps on your Cobols, even if you know you'll only use them to tow SDFs around in your backyard. The Rebels will try to HYP Falcons over for Rebel Ground Attacks, so it's useful if you're prepared, should such an aggressive HYP end on one of your infrastructure ships.
- If you happen to find a Falcon with your LDSF, keep in mind that you can tow him to another ship of yours. However, don't make the mistake to tow him to a planet with strong defense posts - the Rebel is immune to planetary attacks! You'll lose your LDSF!

2596 days, 11 hours, 18 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
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I'd have expected at least a little bit of controversy over the racial comments ^_^;

Anyway, let's proceed with the Ship List. Generally, if you construct very specific narrow circumstances, you can probably justify building almost any ship. However, in general, your choice of build should be different. This guide will try to give assessments based on nonspecific circumstances.

Taurus Class Scout: Useless. Build a Medium Freighter instead, and if you don't have the necessary tech and money on the starbase, you made a mistake in your logistics anyway. The 2 extra beams doesn't save this one.

Small Deep Space Freighter: Nearly useless, but often built when a starbase has no minerals in the later game. You can trash them for 1 PBP at least. Generally, you'd rather want a bigger and better ship.

Cygnus Class Destroyer: Well... I know qualified players who play them, but for my taste they are simply too light. The Colonies generally don't wage war with torpships, but with fighter carriers, and while the Cygnus is offering some fair bang for the buck, they are simply completely ineffective against middle and larger warships, since they die too quickly due to their little weight. My recommendation: Don't build them.

Little Joe Class Escort: Useless. Never build. Next.

Neutronic Fuel Carrier: Useless. You have Cobols for fuel generation, and all kinds of freighters (or freighter hulls) to ship it around. Never build. Next.

Medium Deep Space Freighter: Cheap and does its job. Okay for colonizing planets and hauling cash and a bit of stuff around. You never WANT to build this thing, but sometimes it may be the best option left to you. Still, try to avoid it.

Cobol Class Research Cruiser: The pride and joy of your fleet. You can't have too many of them, because they are so incredibly versatile. In the beginning of the game, they will kickstart 2 worlds and tag 10 more while bioscanning the area around you. In the middle, they will tow SDF hulls around to boost your expansion, and in the endgame, they will provide fuel for your Virgos or act as minelayers. What's not to love? Think about that: It's not uncommon to have 30 Cobols active when the ship limit hits. Assuming an average movement of 70 light years apiece, it means that you create 4.200 fuel PER TURN. This beauty of a ship is the reason that gives the Colonies war effort its incredible mobility all by itself. If you're not sure what to build, a Cobol is never wrong. Oh, and don't trade them away to other races cheaply.

Sagittarius Class Transport: The little brother of the Gemini isn't a bad ship at all (the Robots would love to have it), but it is simply eclipsed by its big brother's size. For only one tech level and only a trace of money and minerals more you can rather build 40 instead of 30 fighers, and that does matter. The Sagittarius does see play though in the end game after shiplimit when players build bases en masse: Boosting hull level to 5 and building a Sagittarius is a standard play. A good ship which only suffers from the fact that a better one exists.

Aries Class Transport: Don't play those yourself, you'll never need them as Colonies. However, they can be traded away to other races, when they can't offer you anything in the league of a Cobol. A niche player.

Lady Royale Class Cruiser: This ship is highly controversial. On one hand, in multiples it can effectively raise even a nativeless rock of a planet to supply enough credits for shipbuilding, but you sacrifice build slots and considerable minerals for what could have been a quarter of a Virgo instead. My recommendation: Try to build as few as possible, and only really dispatch them in those places where you can not sustain a proper cash supply by proper logistics. Do not spam them as a replacement for correct resource management.

Gemini Class Transport: A wonderful ship, a true beauty. Builds 40 fighers per turn or ships a considerable amount of stuff around. Each base should receive at least one of them, preferably with small engines, but enough to travel to its direct neighbors (and maybe even towing a SDF hull while at it). The Swiss army knife of fighter builders, and dirt cheap in cash and minerals. Build lots of them, only be aware that they shouldn't "eat away" too much minerals and supplies from your bases to build Virgos. Balance is the key.

Scorpius Class Light Carrier: A terrible pile of crap, do NOT build this. It costs 2/3rd of a Virgo for only a fraction of its fighting power. If you're short on minerals, build something else instead, and save the minerals for something better instead. Stay away at all costs!

Large Deep Space Freighter: An important part of your early development, and a staple build. Compared to other races, the Colonies build fewer of those, however, since we prefer to tow SDF hulls around instead. Still, a good ship and hardly ever the wrong decision. Hint: Especially in the beginning, when you're sometimes cash-strapped, it's perfectly fine to build a simple LDSF hull with warp1 engines to have it towed around by a Gemini or Cobol.

Tranquility Class Cruiser: A fundamentally good ship which is simply outshone by the Cobol. The extra weight is only relevant in combat, and we prefer fighter to torp battles. I'd go for the much more flexible Cobol instead and leave the fighting to the carriers. Never build.

Patriot Class Light Carrier: A very interesting ship which is particularly useful for attacks on non-base planets. It will reliably take out planets with fewer than 170 defense posts, and it is exceptionally light with only one engine, so it's also very cheap. This is not the kind of ship you want to send where the battle is thickest, but it's great for picking up planets in the enemy's periphery. However, it must be used together with Virgos, because one battle will deplete the fighters on the Patriot, and he will have to return to the mother Virgo to have its fighters replenished. The minimal cargo space of only 30 makes replenishment via fighter building on the Patriot impossible.

Neutronic Refinery Ship: Are you kidding me? We're the Colonies, for crying out loud. Next.

Iron Lady Class Frigate: Just no. If you want a torpship, build a Cobol. If you want a minesweeper, build a Virgo. Next.

Merlin Class Alchemy Ship: This ship is key to the Colonies. As a rule of thumb, as Colonies you NEVER NEVER EVER want to convert supplies to MC. Instead, you use the supplies either for fighterbuilding or to feed them into a Merlin. Build lots of these beauties, you'll want to have one of them on each base and Bovinoid planet, and keep in mind that they are great freighters, too. Using a Cobol to tow a Merlin with 2700 colonists to a major Bovinoid planet is bliss.

Super Transport Freighter: You will build lots and lots of those big hulky thingies, and in 95% of the cases you will use warp1 engines. That's what your Cobols are for. If you want to save money and still boost your expansion, build a cheap STF hull and have enough Cobols to put them to use. Make sure to maintain a balance, though. There's no point in accumulating STF hulls somewhere, you need to have the Towers to put them to use as well.

Virgo Class Battlestar: Your workhorse and pride in battle. This ship is a beast and will swat away anything small and medium-sized without blinking. Moreover, it is really cheap in minerals and MC, so you can build lots of them. It has gigantic fuel holds (which you won't need since you'll be travelling with Cobols) and a sweet cargo hold of 290, which usually allows you to replenish lost fighters on the move. A Cobol/Warp6-Virgo/Transwarp-Virgo combination can easily plow through whole enemy cluster arms without breaking a sweat. Build lots and lots of them.
2596 days, 10 hours, 41 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
Hi Mentar,

These tips are terrific!  There is one small section in the race relations that I disagree with, and that is the point about Colony vs. Robot as enemies.  I have found Colonies to be extremely strong against Robots because Robot minefields are a useless weapon against Colonies.  As you pointed out, Robot ships have few beams, so minefields are good offensively against Robots.  Colonies can use the fighters from Virgos and Geminis constantly to sweep away any countermining and can do so from a long range.

Thanks for your interesting and helpful walkthrough.
2596 days, 10 hours, 16 minutes ago
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turssi
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I'd like to add that the smaller ships can be worth building when your starbases are still being built up. It's always better to build than not to build.

To the Virgo I would add that it is probably the best SB killer in the game. With 10 beams and an unlimited fighter supply it will always kill a maxed out 60/200 starbase.

2596 days, 5 hours, 50 minutes ago
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donaldworrell
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Taurus class scout  - is good at moving fuel.   can tow.  you might want a couple.  

Cygnus - is a must.   can lead virgos into battle as a sacrificial lamb.  also are a must to defnd your space from hyp ships and cloakers.

medium deep space frieghter - never build.  You better build.  you can not afford to build two engine ships just to haul cargo.  You have to have a mixer.  You can not enough cobols to do ever thing.

Lady Royale - are good to send out with your colonizing ships.  You always have cash to drop down to a planet.   

Iron lady - are a good homeworld defense ship.   also good to attack planets with.  

2596 days, 2 hours, 52 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
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donaldworrell: I respectfully disagree with several of your points, but I'm very thankful for having the discussion about it.

Taurus: Why would you build a Taurus when you can buy a Cobol instead? The Cobol is way superior in whichever way you look and only costs 100 MC more?

Cygnus: A "must"? Why would I want to send a build slot to its sure death? Why use a throwaway ship which at best fires off 8 mk4-torps before it blows? Or do you intend to equip it with mk7? Then it's getting even more expensive than a Cobol!

I can see a limited use for them when you're on the defense and desperately need a platform to drop mines or deliver some defensive shots on a base with nearly no resources, or if you're totally swamped by RGAing Rebels, in Falcon swatting duty. But that's it, I think. Is there something I can't see?

Medium Freighter: It's a matter of proper resource management. Look at it this way: A Transwarp Cobol plus STF hull costs around the same MC as three Transwarp Medium Freighter. Some minerals more, but only 2 build phases instead of three. And can haul five times as much while generating extra fuel.

In the two finished games here on NU where I played Colonies I never built a single Medium Freighter.

Lady Royale: That's actually a creative use for them, nice. I tend to use a different method for expanding, which I'll get into a bit more indepth later.

Iron Lady: Is a minimally heavier Cobol without the Ramscoop and with 4 extra beams. I'll take the Cobol instead (who is not for fighting anyway - that's what your Virgos are for).

In a nutshell, my argument is "The best is the bane of the good. Why build a narrow uncommon ship when you can do the same with the universally better one?"
2596 days, 2 hours, 20 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
With regard to ship building for the Colonies and for every other race, I'd like to propose that we "never say never".  Some ships in the list are obviously much more valuable than others, but we need to be careful not to overlook possibilities.

Here's a great example that has happened to me more than a couple of times: I'm playing around turn 20, the limit is coming up fast, I've built a couple of new starbases and I try to get a Gemini with poor engines on new starbases to fill up their fighter holds quick.  Well it turns out that on a new starbase I'm one tech level and/or a little bit of Tritanium short of building that beloved Gemini.  However I have enough minerals and money to make a Sagittarius so I do that instead.  Those two ships serve essentially the same purpose: to build fighters.  Although a Gemini is preferred to a Sagittarius for the larger cargo hold, by building a Sagittarius in that instance I have taken advantage of that turn at that starbase by building something almost as useful.

It's kind of like underpromotion in chess.  It's rare that you'll get to the opponent's end of the board and want to turn your pawn into a knight instead of a queen.  However, keeping your mind open to that possibility can sometimes win the game for you.
2595 days, 19 hours, 34 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
echoclusterveteran: You're certainly right, but this is exactly why I wrote at the beginning "Generally, if you construct very specific narrow circumstances, you can probably justify building almost any ship". And yes, if you don't have enough money or minerals for a Gemini, building a Sagittarius is perfectly fine (see also my comment about Sagittarius uses).

However, I was trying to give recommendations which ships to favor under the assumption that you have sufficient MC and Minerals, otherwise we get these (IMHO much less useful) shiplist reviews which leave beginners asking "oooookaaay, but what should I build now"? And here, I recommend to prefer a proper mix of Cobols, Geminis, STF hulls, Virgos and Merlins, with an occasional LDSF, Patriot and Lady Luck mixed in where the situation calls for it. Try to avoid the rest.


2595 days, 19 hours, 6 minutes ago
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echoclusterveteran
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
Mentar: I was certainly agreeing and trying to reinforce your well-stated observations about the Colony fleet.  When I play Colonies, I prefer 90% of all my ships to be Cobol, Patriot, Gemini, Virgo, and Merlin.  (I don't normally do the STF hull but it seems like a very good idea.)  Any ship that is not one of these I will build only for a specific purpose, either to address a specific need in the game, or to compensate for a lack of resources.

The issue that I mean to address is a wider issue.  With posts in threads such as this one and in race guides such as those at Donovan's, you see far too often words like "worthless! never build this ship!".

We simply need to discard the concept that some tools that can prove valuable in a minority of circumstances are always worthless!  It's patently untrue.

Referring to the building of less-preferable ships, the Gemini vs. Sagittarius example was the first that came to mind, and one that happens often to me when playing Colonies.  Donald above correctly noted that the Cobol is preferable to the MDSF whenever you have the resources but he misinterpreted your original post as "never build an MDSF" when what you actually said is "You never WANT to build this thing, but sometimes it may be the best option left to you."  Both of you are correct, but his understanding of your original statement was not, and I'd imagine those less familiar with the game would inadvertently reach the same misunderstanding.

My personal opinion is that we should avoid the word "never" because especially beginners need to be aware that there are a plethora of tools at their disposal.

This is somewhat off-topic because it concerns another race, but recently when playing Privateer I built a Skyfire.  Every single one of the raceguides say "worthless - doesn't cloak - never build".  Well I was in the middle of a huge low-voltage ion storm and that base was due to build next and I needed to take out some immediate enemy threats and the Skyfire is the only torp ship that Privateers can build that can withstand mid-level combat.  Building that ship gained me a great advantage in that situation.

Planets arguably has some flaws in the ship lists, but they are the ship lists we know and love and they aren't going away any time soon.  I prefer to look at the ship lists' flaws as subtleties, because the right ship at the right moment can be the ace up your sleeve that you really need at a given moment.
2595 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
i agree with most what has been posted here. however i have noticed that most players are fancy about trading ships with other races just for the sake of trading. in your guide you pointed out that this option should be taken just if you feel 100% sure that the trade does not backfire on you. trading for a loki seems to be a pretty well idea most of the time but there are other trades you simply do not want to be doing.. never.

this is where your gameplan comes into action. after you have scouted (preferably but not necissarily - tho it is more of a risk <- this is where diplomatic skills count - both) your neighbours you should attack one of them merciless. having traded ships before you actually know who is close to you can give u a real headache. personally i just trade really important ships to allies and to allies only.


a few general notes ( for all races ) :

- always look up the other players in your game by clicking on their profile. where are they from? how many turns have they played? how many have they missed so far? how many games have they played in, what did they rank in those finished?
These informations will give u an idea of how "good" or "bad" the others are and if they can be a good ally or not. if you think you are better than them then just take them out if you can.

if u want to learn more about certain races look up games of players from the top of their leaderboards. do not just look up the games where they crushed their enemies but also where they ended up in 5th place or lower. try to understand their strategies and tactics and test them in your games if you find a similar situation. variety in comnbat tactics is one of the keys to compete in and beat high lvl games.
(looking up old games of players that you are fighting can give u a great advantage if they just follow the same tactics over and over again )


good work mentar, keep it up!

Frucht
2594 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes ago
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mycroft
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
As a Birds player, speaking as if I was a Colonist player,

Trading a Virgo to a Bird can actually be to your benefit. Even if you will eventually fight. A bird player will spend about everything he has to outfit it anywhere combat useful. (And everything he captures to keep it stocked). Not to mention the outrageous cost to clone it if you put nice engines on it. Sending one for free to the birds can give you the opportunity to gamble them bankrupting themselves on a weapon they are not intended to use. The only real advantage of a heavy carrier to a Bird, is having a large fuel tank on your second line to bounce ships off of. Outside of that they are monstrous money drains.

Also Tranquility vs Cobol, you need to look at your long term uses and options. A Cobol is great because it makes fuel as it moves. A Tranquility has 130 more KT's of cargo space. So if you need to go heavy on the mine operations, that's the ship to do it with. However I agree, as a Colony player you should rely on more superior ships to send to combat then either of these. Unless you have foreknowledge as to what is ahead of you and you are certain your medium ships can be of actual use. (Capturing freighters and other light ships)

As a Bird player again, I would never ever in my right mind trade a resolute to ANYONE that I'm not 100% certain isn't going to payoff in a victory in some portion. That ship is just way to valuable to just squander. Even to Crystals and Privs with the fact that they themselves can't clone. Even though its only on the upper side of the Medium ships as far as fighting power goes. It has so many advantages and uses that can really change a way someone does battle.

Lastly, I've used Skyfire's to success a few times as a Bird. They are a fair medium combat ship. But more specifically they are an armed medium freighter that can drop mines (Mainly to counter HYP ships from hitting weak planets that can't fight them off yet. Sometimes depending on the stage of the Birds game, your core can be very weak. Since a Skyfire can't exactly sneak into bordering space, your not really tempted as much to see what is around the corner as much. 
2594 days, 21 hours, 37 minutes ago
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greyghost
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
The problem with that theory is that the Birds don't really have anything the Colonies would want bad enough to give up a Virgo.  Maybe for a couple of well equipped Resolutes, or a Resolute and a Darkwing (both with transwarps, Mark 7 torps, and at least heavy blasters)....but their individual ships pretty much suck compared to a Virgo.  Even at two for one, it's a very situational trade option.  Colonies aren't subtle.  They clobber people.  You can see them coming a mile away, and still know it's going to cost a lot to stop them.
2594 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes ago
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rudel
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
Just some things to add an overall very interesting guide: 

1. allying to the Rebel might sound stupid at first glance, but the combination of Cobols and Falcons is by far the best method of rapid expansion (2nd only to the Borg). In my oppinion, rapid expansion is always the key to success. 

2. there is one thing all guides (including all the Donovan ones) lack: when playing a carrier race and fighting against another carrier race, it's essential to be allied to a race that can afford to not set PE and/or kill. Like the Fascists, Rebels or by far the best: the Privateer. Otherwise your carriers will just sit in the orbit doing nothing (due to the stupid and way too high advantage on the left side) 

3. a cheap Patriot followed by a Virgo will take out small carriers like Instrumentalities without any damage to the Virgo. I tried it once against the Robot and the combination is just priceless. You'll be surprised what can happen if you go directly against an Instrumentality (especially when you are ignoring the PE/Kill thing) 

 I agree with most of the remaining points, maybe you could put in the hint that if you are going against the Crystal you should only put exactly as much fuel as needed on your towing Cobols. 

Cheers,
Rudel
2594 days, 18 hours, 37 minutes ago
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fruchtquake
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
good points rudel, i would just like to add that this is meant to be a basic walkthrough. advanced tactics are certainly being described in this thread but too much information might be overwhelming for our newcommers.
we may add an "advanced guided" later on.. i think that is in everyone's interest. keeping this tutorial "slim" to give a basic idea how to play the colonies before we add more information how they can be played on a higher level.

i think this is what mycroft originally intended if i recall correctly from what he posted in the other thread.

Frucht
2594 days, 16 hours, 51 minutes ago
View mentar's profile
mentar
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
Lots of interesting replies today, thanks! I'll try to reply to those directly relevant to the Colonies.

Mycroft's point about Virgos potentially being economic traps for an unwise Bird is certainly true. However, in the hands of a skilled Bird it can be extremely helpful, particularly in the later stages past the shiplimit, because it offers what the Bird generally has trouble with: Raw power.

Birds generally have trouble against big carriers. Against a Virgo, they'll sometimes lose two Mark7-DWs before the third prevails. With a Virgo in the back, the Birds can have one DW tow a Virgo on their own and only lose one DW, effectively a 1:1 trade. This hammer-and-anvil method is quite an advantage for the late game. Also, Virgos make short work of pretty much any unprotected base there is.

So, in a nutshell, trading a Virgo to a qualified Bird means trading them the capability to destroy hard targets in an economical way. This may very well be justified, it's a judgment call, but you should be aware of the implications.

About Tranquility and minelaying: I see your point, and like I said - the Tranquility is quite a good ship. In general however, with no narrow special circumstances looming, I'd prefer the versatility of the Ramscoop over the slightly extended cargo space. And once you want to drop more than 250 Mk7-Torps, things are pretty special anyway ;)

greyghost: I could see myself trading a Virgo for a Resolute. Gaining cloaking capability matters A LOT to the Colonies, and the Ion Storm immunity is a nice extra. Sure, a Virgo has a higher fighting power, but it's the additional _capability_ which matters much more.

rudel: You're right, I'll include the Falcon hint in the final version of the guide (this is a draft for discussion). I still find an alliance of carrier races unusual, since most other races offer more benefits in an exchange, but Falcons do make sense, particularly since you'll have the fuel generation to use them to the max.

I need to admit that I'm not quite sure what exactly you're referring to with your second point, could you please elaborate?

About the third part: That's a creative use ;) ... maybe it's that I'm somehow a greedy guy. I tend to abhor ships losses if I can avoid them. And when I have the chance to whack an Instru, I tend to prefer a slightly damaged Virgo over a lost Patriot. Unless, of course, I'm weak in the area and can't afford the Virgo to be bloodied. It certainly is a very favorable trade for the Colonies, so it would be perfectly justified.

Fruchtquake: I'm already afraid I'm writing way tooooo lengthy here, not much slimness left. But yes, most of the "advanced" stuff should probably kept to a "for Runaways" addendum.

2594 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes ago
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rudel
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply
Sure, maybe we can clean up the post the end and publish an advanced and a beginners guide as a PDF. 

Regarding the sceond part: due to the nature of the VCR, in a carrier vs carrier fight the one on the left side of the VCR has a BIG advantage. It's such a massive boost, that I've destroyed Biocides with my Golems without even getting my hull damaged. 

To achieve the left of the VCR, you need to achieve some things (see http://www.eurielec.etsit.upm.es/~suso/donovan/help/combat.htm, Friendly Code Battle Order for details). A quick summary: the ship with the lowest Battlevalue fights from the right, so you want to have a highter Battlevalue. Your Battlevalue is highest, when you have a non-nummerical FC ("a2b", "abc") and have no PE and no Kill mission set.  

In one of my games as a Robot, both the Borg and I realised that fact. Especially after the first annihilations of complete fleets because of this "feature" (Bio VS Virgo 2:0 with only 10% damage on the Bio etc). Therefore, no one set a PE or the Kill mission on their carriers, resulting in both fleets hanging in orbit together. With no one attacking. 

The only thing to prevent this is to play with a race that can gain an advantage by not fighting. Rebels/Fascist could still pillage/RGA your bases if no one attacks. Allying with the Privateer obviously solves this issue completely. Just give some of your carriers to the Priv. No one can afford to not set his PE to Priv, because he would lose his entire fleet in the next turn. 

I think this idea is one of the worst features implemented in planets. It forces you into a big stalemate if two carrier races are fighting. And the only thing to prevent this would be to ally with one of the above mentioned races as far as I know. 

About losing ships: I tend to build lots of bases asap. Fighters are no concern as a Colonial. So you just need a human base to pump out dirt cheap Patriots all the time, they can be towed by the Virgos so no Transwarp needed. I rather lose a Patriot than having a badly damaged Virgo in enemy territory. ;)
2594 days, 14 hours, 20 minutes ago
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turssi
RE: Offering basic Colonies WalkthroughsWrite Reply

@Rudel:

Not fighting gives the advantage to the player with bigger ships and more fuel.

I had this happen to me when attacking against Robots while playing Rebels.

He then proceeded to tow my Rushes with his Golems and kill them one by one.

The left side helps you, but a Rush (or in the case of the Colonies the Virgo) is still statistically prone to lose. After this I had to set the PE on all my Rushes and proceeded to kill of the Robot. I could do this because I had built up a bigger fleet than him, and also had an ally of mine attack him from another side.

So the problem is not so big as you make it. There is always a counter-tactic.

2594 days, 14 hours, 14 minutes ago
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rudel
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I think that the left-hand advantage is way too big. In my case, it was about Golems vs Bios. So even if the Golem has less beams than the Bio, it would utterly annihilate a Bio from the left. Even 2, easily.

So even if he had towed me away, he would have lost 2 Bios vs 1 Golem of mine. And our fleets were equally strong. He could have used one Annihilation + 1 Bio and the third Bio would have killed my Golem, but it's still 2:1. 

I don't think that this a valid counter-tactic. It is maybe the only tactic available, but I still see no benefit in this rule.