Quick Guide to Torpedoes & Minefields

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3121 days, 1 hours, 17 minutes ago
View jobo's profile
jobo
Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Having taken over a few rundown positions from players that have dropped out, I have been surprised by the shipdesigns being used by some players. This mini-guide will attempt to outline the correct use of torpedoes, focusing on economy, destructive power and efficiency as minefield material.

What is the cost of a torpedo?
If we start by ignoring the cost of the launcher - besides the required techlevel, the cost of the launcher is a very small part of equation - we start by noting that all torpedes costs exactly one of each mineral. To compare cost, we need to convert everything to MC, and since an alchemy ship can convert supplies to minerals at a rate of 3 to 1, we can set the cost of the minerals to 9 MC. The following table gives us the cost of each torpedo, when we factor in the mineral cost

Torpedo Cost in MC
Mark 1 10
Proton 11
Mark 2 13
Gamma Bomb 19
Mark 3 21
Mark 4 22
Mark 5 40
Mark 6 44
Mark 7 45
Mark 8 63

To decide which torpedoes are the most effective for killing and for minelaying, we need to add in the torpedoes effectiveness at those tasks, and compare them to the cost of the torpedoes.

Torpedo Cost in MC Explosive Power Explosive / Cost Mines pr Torp Mines / Cost
Mark 1 10 5 0,50 1 0,10
Proton 11 8 0,73 4 0,36
Mark 2 13 10 0,77 9 0,69
Gamma Bomb 19 2 0,11 16 0,84
Mark 3 21 15 0,71 25 1,19
Mark 4 22 30 1,36 36 1,64
Mark 5 40 35 0,88 49 1,23
Mark 6 44 40 0,91 64 1,45
Mark 7 45 48 1,07 81 1,80
Mark 8 63 55 0,87 100 1,59

If we start by looking at the most effective minelayers, these three torpedoes stands out as being extremely cost-effective

Mark 7         
1,80
Mark 4 1,64
Mark 8 1,59

If we pull out the cost-effectiveness of the explosive powers of the same torpedoes, we get the following order

Mark 4         
1,36
Mark 7 1,07
Mark 8 0,87

Honerable mention should be given to the Mk5 and Mk6 - while not as effective minelayers, they are in fact slightly more cost-effective than the Mk8 for killing purposes.

Conclussion
The Mk4 & Mk7 take first and second place in both categories, with a win for each. The Mk7 packs a better punch pr torpedo, so if the techlevel is available on the starbase, the Mk7 makes a better choice than the Mk4 - while the Mk4 is a great low-cost (techwise) torpedo. The Mk8 is the choice when money is abundant, being a slightly more powerful torpedo than the Mk7.

Gamma Bombs - are they worth anything?
No! The explosive power of those torpedoes are so low that they are useless against shields - so their primary purpose is to take down crew after the shields have failed - but the type of ships that you can take on with beams alone range from small scouts to freighters - and here a set of disrupters will do just fine - no reason spending good money on Gamma Bombs, when a set of Mk4's combined with the NTP friendlycode (against freighters and small scouts) will do just fine.

What about Proton Torpedos - I have seen you use them!
Protons are tech 1 - and packs 60% more killing power than the Mk1 (also tech 1) at only 10% the additional cost. When money is tight, and none is available to upgrade the torpedo tech level, equipping your scouts/utility ships with Proton Torps are a better choice than not equipping them with torpedo launchers. The ability to throw a few proton-torps at a non-starbase planet, or laying a very small panic-minefield can be useful at times.

Now please stop equipping your ships with Mk3's!
3121 days, 0 hours, 21 minutes ago
View admiral_thrain's profile
admiral_thrain
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
A word about gamma bombs.Try to sim Darkwing with Distruptors and Gamma Bombs against Firecloud with Heavy Phasers and Mk8 torps, there is the answer. There is other cases as well which require gamma bombs, but I'll keep them on myself...

In a nutshell: Use Gamma Bombs for capturing ships which can't be captured any other way, mk4 or mk7 for killing things or mk8 if you have too much money. All other torp types are a waste.
3120 days, 22 hours, 50 minutes ago
View jobo's profile
jobo
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
I had completely forgotten that combo ;) Thanks for reminding me.

But I do recall those DW's being close to useless, once you had captured that firecloud or blocade runner. The following combination might not work all the time, but it does leave you with a DW that can be used to attack capital warships and starbases.

A Darkwing equipped with x-ray lasers (for capturing) and Mk7's for taking down the shields. The trick is to have only enough torps onboard to ensure the shields are down. Some math (65% torp hit chance) and some simulations leaves me with the following table when a Heavy Blaster + Mk7 Firecloud fights against a x-ray + Mk7 equipped DW (with 3 torps onboard).

Torp Hits    
Chance     
Result    
04,29%Dead Darkwing :(
123,89%Dead Darkwing :(
244,36%Captured Firecloud :)
327,46%Dead Firecloud - try again

There is a 28,18% chance that your DW dies in the attempt - not really a good thing, but when it works, it leaves you with a DW that can be used for other things. If the Firecloud has heavy phasers, it is not possible to use the above combo, but I doubt that many fireclouds are equipped with those beams. The Heavy Blaster + Mk7 is the far more likely combo to encounter. But true - uses for the Gamma Bomb exist, I retract my earlier statement ;) Regards
3120 days, 22 hours, 14 minutes ago
View admiral_thrain's profile
admiral_thrain
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
I rather have DW with distuptors + gammas and have a 100% chance to capture a Firecloud and you don't need to care which weapons Firecloud has. Risking a mk7 DW would be...unwise. Remember that you need minimum of 3 fireclouds... Would you have one DW which can take them all without risk of losing the Firecloud or the DW or would you risk 4-5 DWs for the mission?
3120 days, 21 hours, 16 minutes ago
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fletcherm
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Nice post. Thanks for putting it up.
3120 days, 3 hours, 38 minutes ago
View kissofpain's profile
kissofpain
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Nice post. And nice trick with Firecloud capture. I guess a lot of sim will reveal other good ships that can be captured this way by torpedo races. :)
3116 days, 21 hours, 58 minutes ago
View soulmonkeylove's profile
soulmonkeylove
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
I am slightly confused as I have not read anything else on any other site to suggest that the explosive power of torpedos equates to the explosive power of the mines you can create from them. As far as I was aware a mine is a mine and the efficiency and value of the torpedo is only in the number of mines that you can make from each.

Where is this information from?
3116 days, 20 hours, 42 minutes ago
View kissofpain's profile
kissofpain
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Mine damage is the same. The table is confusing because some table heads are overlaping.
3116 days, 19 hours, 27 minutes ago
View jobo's profile
jobo
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
The table entries are left-aligned, så there is no actual overlap, though it can be a bit hard to read due to missing margin/padding :(

Anyway, as stated, the damage from a minehit does not depend on the type of torpedo used. The explosive power stated is the effect of the torpedo in combat.

Regards
3116 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago
View soulmonkeylove's profile
soulmonkeylove
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Cheers for clearing that up :)
3088 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes ago
View hooligan's profile
hooligan
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply

So what about dressing up DW's with 1 x-ray as Sacrificial Lambs against one of the big carriers?

They were rumored to live longer/ shoot more torpedoes before getting killed. (because now the fighters have to fly back to the carrier for recharging)

3088 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes ago
View admiral_thrain's profile
admiral_thrain
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
It's not a rumor. One beam DWs have time to shoot one volley more.

20000 matches:
2 x DW ( 1 x-r, 8 mk7)
1 x DW (10 x-r, 8 mk7)
vs
Gorbie (Heavy Phasers, full fighters)

DWs win 90% and Gorbie 9% of the matches.
---
3 x DW (10 x-r, 8 mk7)
vs
Gorbie (Heavy Phasers, full fighters)

DWs win 64% and Gorbie 34% of the matches.
3065 days, 22 hours, 24 minutes ago
View automcdonough's profile
automcdonough
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
is there a way to drop partial minefield? I'm in a situation where I don't want to use ALL the torps.
3065 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes ago
View soulmonkeylove's profile
soulmonkeylove
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Yep. Just use the friendly codes md1 to md9 and you will drop 10 times the number of torpedoes as the number on the end of the code, so for example md7 would convert 70 torps into mines :)
3065 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes ago
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suntzu
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
I dare to disagree with the conclusions drawn concerning torpedo cost. Not in all cases it is a fair calculation to equate 1 mineral = 3 MC. For one, you cannot transfer MCs to sups. So if you have a lot of money that does not necessarily mean you have a lot of sups. Secondly, if you can't afford a merlin or don't have one nearby you do need those resources. And if you want to lay many mines and have little minerals, mk8 are the only logical choice.
In the endgame with lots of merlins, I agree.
3065 days, 18 hours, 29 minutes ago
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kedalion
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
automcdonough, there's also 'md0' which drop 10x10=100 torpedos into mines (together with the (web)mine laying mission).


3065 days, 15 hours, 9 minutes ago
View lindybomber's profile
lindybomber
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
To summarize

Use Protons if you need an early torp ship.
Use gamma bombs is your really need to capture something special
Use Mk4s for your mid game ships
Use mk7 for your late game ships
use mk8s in late game if you have lots of spare cash.

Mk1, mk2, mk3, mk5, and mk6 are pretty much worthless.
3065 days, 13 hours, 40 minutes ago
View d-wreck's profile
d-wreck
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Agree with the torp breakdown above. But mk 6 although fractionally more expensive can produce a nice size defensive mine field.
3064 days, 0 hours, 54 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Don´t forget "mdh"  and "mdq" to drop "half" or a "quarter" of your torps.
3063 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes ago
View figak's profile
figak
RE: Quick Guide to Torpedoes & MinefieldsWrite Reply
Nice write up, seen similar bits from Donovan's.

Perhaps nice to add to documentation area?