The Taurus War (Championship Match)

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2675 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes ago
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This is the public discussion board for Game 38553: The Taurus War (Championship Match) You may discuss the game here with the other players.

2672 days, 9 hours, 24 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
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Due to an upcoming military deployment, I must regretfully decline the invitation to play in this game as soon I will likely not be able to play my turns reliably.  I wish all the other commanders luck, this will be a challenging fight.  I believe that vesuvius, if he accepts, will represent the pirates well in this war. 
2672 days, 7 hours, 50 minutes ago
View nitemare's profile
nitemare
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Good luck to all!

 All the crystalline players will be cheering you bondservant! 

 Nite
2672 days, 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
We are Borg.
Resistance is futile.
Your achievement score as it has been is over.
Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own.
From this time forward your natives will service US.

2671 days, 21 hours, 39 minutes ago
View jobo's profile
jobo
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What dm said (damned score-jumper that he is ;))
2671 days, 21 hours, 35 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Greetings all!  Who will be stepping up to the challenge?

Unlike the Borg (which all veterans like us know must be exterminated immediately once the game begins), I am here willing to talk, chat, make tea, and trade freely with all the inhabitants of this fine galaxy.  For those of you I have not shared a galaxy -- it is a pleasure.  For those I already do know .. a double pleasure!

(thanks Nite)

Bond
2671 days, 19 hours, 32 minutes ago
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vesuvius
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Greetings all. I've been invited to play the Privateer commander. I will be out of town until to 30th of April. If everyone joins before then, please give my spot to the next in line, if not, I'm in the the best fight I ever had.
2671 days, 19 hours, 26 minutes ago
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zelrik
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If you decline the invitation, please send me a message (there is a link in the invitation you receive) instead of/in addition to posting in the forums. 

Thanks,

Zelrik
2671 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hello everyone. It will be an honor to fight you. Good luck with the game!

cheers,
JKovalainen, the angry bird
2671 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
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Greetings all, this is going to be a helluva game.  Feel free to visit the Colonial fleets, gamble on our ships, drink our beer, and even offer up some trades for Cobols.  But if you start something, you better be willing to end it!
2671 days, 3 hours, 30 minutes ago
View sants's profile
sants
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Hi all players,

it seems first and second Empire Commodores have declined the invitation, i am the 3rd in the chain of command, but this captain will do the best he can.

Regards and good luck to all players.
2671 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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woot! Sorry was a bit paralized because of the invitation. It is a honor to play with you in this game. And I hope to prove successful to display a part of the experience of vepr or vesuvius.

Othrym
2671 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes ago
View halion's profile
halion
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Hi Sants,

I wasn't approached to play in this game for EE I assume since I am already defending their honor in Scorpius War!

Not sure about Darvster but assume he couldn't play.

Good luck with the game and if you want to chat on some of the things that have (and haven't) worked for me please drop me a line.

Halion.

2670 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

isn't deijhi playing?

if yes, all other players can already give up.. :)
2670 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
He is contemplating his navel about it.

Unfortunately, since lizards don't have belly buttons, it may take awhile.
2670 days, 18 hours, 21 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I´m looking forward for this one! Should we start betting on it as well??
Lets wait who will fill the empty slots.
2670 days, 15 hours, 0 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I had higher hopes for the Klingons... Led in the Championship Match by a Lizard King.

Does anyone else find that confusing?
2670 days, 5 hours, 19 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Do NOT doubt emork. Do NOT doubt othrym.
They are #2 and #1 on borg threat analysis.
Either can take this game. Mark my words.



2670 days, 4 hours, 31 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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The Admiral's Rear looks around in confusion.....

"What? Was someone talking"

  "Yes." his flagship Captain sighs, "You have been requested in a galaxy far far away.  What are your orders?"

  "Why assemble the armada, of course." the Hind Admiral answers absent mindedly while he chews on some tasty chocolate covered crickets.

  "Great!" the captain answers excitedly now that his admiral is finally starting to get into action. "Here are your spec sheets."

  " Oh nice." the Ad claps his claws together enthusiastically. "What pretty shinny carriers."

  "Ahem, not those spec sheets.  Those are the other races.  Over here are our spec sheets."

  "Oh, I see.  Well, these are nice escorts.  Where are my big ships?"

  "That's it I am afraid sir."

  " But they are soooo tiny.  Do I at least have special ships?  Where are my ram scoops?  Where are my Bio scanners?  Do I at least have lizards that can make fighters in space or bases?  Maybe makes those sticky space stuff  or move harmlessly through Ions?"

  "No sir, none of those.  But your crews can stick out their forked toungues and make a mean noise!"

  "Well, Hummm, I think I see where we are at.  Maybe we should fire up the stills and make some fresh Klag to serve to boarding parties.  Also, make sure we have our surrender papers prepared in advance.  we may need them... "    

.... after vowing not to get into the next Championship match... I have succumbed to temptation.  I am honored to be in the match... NOW, BE FRIENDLY TO YOUR NICE LIZARD NEIGHBORS!

-=The DragonDejhi=- of the itty bitty lizard alliance

2670 days, 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

like
2668 days, 21 hours, 5 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Greetings Dejhi.  Glad to have you on board!
2668 days, 20 hours, 24 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Greetings Veldan!  Excited to see the galaxy where all you "great minds" hang out. 

~~~ now where did I leave that laser pointer.  there it is  ~~~~

  .pointing.  "Please, come by for a drink of Klag and share some good stories.  Here's my home world for directions."


-=The DragonDejhi=-
2668 days, 17 hours, 2 minutes ago
View nakor's profile
nakor
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Good luck to all of you! I hope this one gets at least half as interesting as the Scorpius War. ;)
(subscribe to thread)
2668 days, 11 hours, 16 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Sounds great Dejhi!  We can even sing songs about the absent Feds, Bots, and Rebels.
2668 days, 11 hours, 10 minutes ago
View dazdya's profile
dazdya
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I hope this will be a great game for all involved. :)
(another subscription mark)
2667 days, 17 hours, 44 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
There appears to be a problem with the taurus war ion storms. I see a diffuse ion storm, with varying voltage, akin to one from the stellar cartography addon. This is supposed to be a default configuration map.
Do others see this as well? (1700,880)

This map has very dense clusters...
2667 days, 16 hours, 7 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hello DM,

yes I also see that stellar carography ion storm. And the stars are indeed a bit strange clustered with large holes. But we will get used to it. The mine field races will like it.

Othrym
2667 days, 8 hours, 5 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Can someone post a screen shot of this clustered map with the weird ion storm you guys are all talking about?  Also, there better be some nice roleplaying messages posted here (looking at you dungeonmaster...) just like dragondehji started.  It keeps the peanut gallery entertained as we follow the game :)
2667 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
So here's a picture zoomed in on the storm.  I don't feel like editing my map at this time since I'm making notes all over it and I really don't want to have to edit a screenie.  I see 9 headings all on top of one another.


2667 days, 6 hours, 53 minutes ago
View coldsteel's profile
coldsteel
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
+1

Also, a map like Thin Lizzy posted on the Scorpius war would be really nice
2666 days, 23 hours, 29 minutes ago
View julius's profile
julius
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Don’t quite know why I was invited to this “Clash of Titans”. But here I am! I will have to be better than my best to fly the Rebel flag high in this match.

Good luck to all

Enjoy.

2666 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Welcome Julius!

So one last missing to start 8)

As the last games i started had been giant melees it is a bit unfamiliar to have only 10 partners in the cluster...

Othrym
2666 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes ago
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aanold
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Subscription! GL everyone!
2666 days, 16 hours, 26 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Greetings Julius!  Coldsteel, I do not think you will see the map up for quite some time.  Lots of considerations to take in place first .

-=The DragonDejhi=-

One more to go !!!!

                             ..... now where did I leave that Ion chunneler?
2666 days, 16 hours, 22 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oops, just noticed that the ranks are full.... guess I better look at my turn huh?

-DD-
2666 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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Welcome Skiv and Fruchtquake!  Thanks for filling out the roster.  If nothing else, this should be an interesting game!

  NOW, polish up those tea set, it's time to entertain!  

-DD-
2666 days, 16 hours, 16 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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*LOL* ... yeah hurry up with ur turn 8) Longing to see the 2nd planet ... amorph##!!!$$##
2666 days, 16 hours, 9 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
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Greetings to all, I'm in.
2666 days, 15 hours, 57 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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Welcome Skiv!

So let`s start the exploration and trading!

*hm*
Many lower level commanders in that game like myself. Good to know that oneself is not eaten alone in the dark ...
By the way ... an old myth of my people told us that within that great void within the cluster there dwells a great older one. So be aware!
2666 days, 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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OH NO !!!!!   The game hasn't even started and when I go in to finish my turn, it states there is an error in the game when looking at the data?  Okay, who has set the booby-traps already?  

-DD-
2666 days, 15 hours, 23 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
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The ion storm will revert to a normal storm over the next few turns. And DD your issue should be resolved, you just caught us fixing the settings on that storm. 


2666 days, 13 hours, 29 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hey guys!

Let's have a great game. Hailing frequencies are open, weapons locked ;)
2666 days, 12 hours, 48 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Let's get it on! Time for a public vote: where to aim the angry bird slingshot first?


2666 days, 11 hours, 53 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Let the Battle Begin!

2666 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
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Game on gentlemen:  http://planets.nu/north-america/post/the-taurus-war

The Taurus War has now officially begun.  

Good luck to you all!


2666 days, 11 hours, 9 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
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Excellent. Thanks Joshua for the inauguration!

The one remaining issue is how often we play. I am fine with 1/day for the first say 7 turns but if I'm putting everything on the line for this game it must at some point drop to 2/week.
I have other games and many work related time commitments and I feel I am not alone. I would hate to have to cut out my other commitments and I want to give this game my all (unless I'm stuck between pirates and klingons... or maybe moreso?).
 
We don't want to overshadow the Scorpius war too much either.

DM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEAkwzppObA

What's this talk of a "great old one" and why am I at the top of that shooting gallery? 

2666 days, 10 hours, 50 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
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don't worry, great dungeonmaster of nine -
unless there are some really naive players,
not only the cloaking races will go for
the borg collective...

hssss... ;)
2666 days, 8 hours, 51 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Will we then have only erudite players? Who will allow yet another crystal - lizard pair of friends to slowly strangle them to death? I suspect you miscalculate thin lizzy, we have all seen scorpius, from Thrain to Tom's grave. (pun intended)
Battle lines will be quickly drawn, only the naive players will fall into the trap of "let's all attack pirate/borg/crystal" when in this scenario it is foremost your neighbour you should worry about.
There is much to be gained from a friendly borg. Not everyone needs to be assimilated, only half the map. If not our immediate neighbours then our neighbours' neighbour, someone, somewhere will strike a deal with us in a bid to be the emperor. The firecloud is too precious, too powerful to ignore. The collective will soon learn who is wise.  
2666 days, 8 hours, 33 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Dungeonmaster;  I don't know what Thin Lizzy is talking about.  Personally, for me, I LOVE Borg....


.... especially with Ketchup!
Tasty


Yummmmmmm!
2666 days, 8 hours, 33 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Tom's Grave - he he! - I resemble that remark.
2666 days, 8 hours, 31 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Okay okay okay.... finishing turn now.  I was so confused.  Should I build a small deep space freighter, a serpent class escort, or should I clone this Gorbie sitting in my space dock?  Odd.  I assume we all started with one of those, right?
-=The DragonDejhi=-

P.S.  Hee hee,  really like the angry bird screen shot!
2666 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
...
2666 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
dejhi, how did you post that pic?  mjs said something about creating a webpage with the picture before linking to it, but that just seems too cumbersome.  i tried cutting and pasting from the web but that did not work.  how do you do it?
2666 days, 8 hours, 8 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yes .. Borg's can be very friendly.  And so giving.  I am reminded of that every time I look at my Crystalline Ambassador that returned from duty after spending time with my last Borg neighbor:


2666 days, 7 hours, 2 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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Oh man, I was going to brag about being the first one done.  Then I see those silly borgs beat me too it.

  Hummmm, after showing mercy and talking peace, am I the only one who decided to send my preachers out on a space bus and not gear up for war ?!?!?!?   For Shame!  Galactic peace and prosperity is the first order.  Me thinks innocent minds are lacking out there......

-DD- 
2666 days, 6 hours, 49 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The collective consciousness is most impressed by turn 2. Well studied and entrenched play styles have already changed and adapted to the higher stakes. Races that would normally jump for the quick kill realize: it simply won't happen. They are going to need an economy, and a strong one.

Well met.
2666 days, 4 hours, 43 minutes ago
View sants's profile
sants
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The darkest time is coming, empire has begun to work on the new design of the death star....



2666 days, 4 hours, 40 minutes ago
View sants's profile
sants
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Vepr,

to post a pic is easy.
1. upload an image to imageshack.us (or other similar page).
2. copy the HTML code link and paste it on the post.

regards.
2665 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Also thanks Joshua for the inauguration!

One question because of the rule:

"All 10 losing commanders will be stripped of their rank and all their achievements and will have to start again as lowly midshipmen for their race."

Relating to my achievement that is a fair price to take part in the challange. But I would like to ask / discuss whether you take the achievement at the start of the challenge (1), when the player drops (2) or at the end of the challenge (3). This may be important for us players.

After I have tought a bit about the question i would believe the first case would be the best one, as your achievement at the start of the game was the pice/chance to participate.

If the have a look at the second case, that could cause players to drop, if they see greater problems or if they see minor problems and are close to the end of another game. But that could tilt the whole championship game. We all know the problems that arise if players leave suddenly within the game. Methode one would case players to stay in the game till the end of the game, as the price has already payed with taking part in this game.

I would like to still fight in this game even if I only have one SDSF left.... But then it makes no sense to start another game with the same race until this game ends.

Last but not least archievement loose at the end of the game for all but the winner. That would be the worst variant, as that would block all players toward their favorit race till the end of this war ... and we do not know when it will end.

My prefered variant would be version one. I can live with every version. But i would like to know it as soon as possible so that i can deside how i will behave in other planets.nu games (yeah there are still other games 8)

Thx for clarification!

Othrym
2665 days, 22 hours, 57 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I've had the same thoughts/concerns othrym.  I believe that your #1 proposal should be how it's handled.
2665 days, 22 hours, 48 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
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I agree with othrym.  It would make playing your favored race while involved in the emperor's game kind of pointless.  The "buy in " before the game would allow you to still keep playing.  Then, if you win, your new titles and score get added to your restored old score.   The other thought is perhaps it is unfair to have the buy in be different for everyone.  After all, in the current game, sants is risking 1778 achievement points, skiv 2211, dragondejhi 3063, while dungeonmaster is risking 4166 (3x of sants).  Perhaps it would be fair to normalize the cost of admission to the emperor's game to be the achievement points lost equal to the total contributed by the lowest ranked participant? 
2665 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'd also be open to an achievement bonus = to all achievement put up for ante.

For instance, in this game the lowest buy-in for a player (in this game) is 1778 achievement.  The payout at the end should be 19558 achievement to the victor.

2665 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes ago
View halion's profile
halion
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

I think the 1st option is the prefered method and i don't think this was every fully confirmed for Scorpius.

Not sure i buy into the reduced admision based on other races achievements. The way i look at it is supply and demand. The price DM has had to pay is representative of the relative popularity of the borg and the number of skilled=winning players that compete with him. Take a look at Privateer as another good example.

He only narrowly pipped Jobo to 1st place, it was hotly contested. there are a number of other examples.

For the less popular races which you might also say are harder(debatable) to win races the scores tend to be lower and the 'price' of entry into the championship is lower.

If you look at some of the top players here who come with plenty of expereince they have managed to climb and top the leader boards by winning 1-3 games.

I don't think a full reset is too much since they will be back at the top in reasoanable time anyway if they choose to play the same race again.

In your example, only removing Sants EE score from DM's Borg will mean he is capable of again reaching top of the boards in 1-2max games again. Sorry to personalise but it makes the illustration easier (and Veldan started it :)  )

thats my thought on the topic anyway.

2665 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
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I believe the current system is that you don't lose anything until game conclusion - obscure, Tom Graves and others who have lost in scorpius are still sitting at their previous scores.
I am ok with draconian rules and that accepting a buy into the championship game hurts - and hurts a lot in a virtual sense. I'm from the nintendo generation, you die, game over. Everyone here should realize that and play accordingly, I personally feel that tension leads to the best game available on Nu. That's really the reason why I'm here, and struggled to reach the top of the boards, I get to play in a very intense game with high stakes, and I have the highest chance of being knocked out early too.  

If the rules are to be softened moving forward an ante system makes sense, allowing people to continue to play their favourite race and accrue points while involved in a championship game but losing some or everything that got them into the game in the first place.

What would be most depressing for me would be to look back at the championship game and find the races follow their familiar patterns "Oh shit it's the pirates - extend peace treaty and hope for the best". Having everyone weigh every action, diplomatic in particular, is what will distinguish this style of game. I'm hoping. 
2665 days, 21 hours, 47 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hey Darth Personalizer.. go talk about other people in your own game!  :P

I was just spitballing an idea I've been toying with.  I just thought I'd share.  What you pointed out are some of the down sides of having the unified ante.  I think the community has overall become comfortable with ideas like 1 achievement point earned as the Klingons is not = to 1 achievement point earned by the Robots (for instance).

However, after thinking about the rediculous amount of achievement others will get up to over time if they just win one championship game, they'll always be in every championship game for that race, and they'll monopolize it.  Perhaps an ante system is not fair, and it should be just as it is, that way we can ensure that there is some kind of achievement siphon in the system in order to allow new players a chance to actually compete.
2665 days, 21 hours, 44 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Agree DM.
2665 days, 21 hours, 42 minutes ago
View halion's profile
halion
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

DM you are absolutely right.

I find the highstakes (risked acheivement points and very public performance) to create an excellent gaming environment. It is clear from what i see that every move is carefully weighed, diplomacy is frantic and far more dynamic. some will be bold, some will turtle and which strategy is the better?

It's like playing at the high stakes table at the casino. Once you have been there (I have never in this example) I can beleive it must be hard to go back to the less risky 1 dollar tables etc.

I'm still enjoying the normal .Nu games but Scorpius is by far the most adrenaline i have had doing turns. Hopefuly we will get a less punative ante system for all games in the future which will also have benefits around player retention in games etc. (this has had already a lof of discusison)

2665 days, 21 hours, 40 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
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i agree with othryms first option for obvious reasons. players that are invited to participate to play in a champions game should not be discouraged playing the games they are currently in to the end.

i dislike the idea to add all achievement points to a big pool that will be given to the winner of the champions games. that way it would be very hard for other players - especially the new ones - to reach the top.

i would like to have some "special badge / medal of honor or sth ) shown in a player's profile for each champion's game he/she played in. ( just take the green logo for scorpius/taurus) and add it next to a player's name.

I had the chance to participate in this game because three other players rejected their invitations. Giving out medals that are visible to others would encourage players to actually participate in these presumably tough games rather than "grinding" the easy ones to be standing on top. 
2665 days, 21 hours, 37 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

I agree that I would like to have the game set so you lose the points that you had to get into the Championship game.  With that said, I am not sure that .nu can even do that.  The game is only one turn from starting and the points have changed already.  Is there even a way they can go back and know exactly what points we started with?

   As far as how many points the winner gets.... Well, I knew getting into this game that I was playing the best.  All of us have won games, so why play easy people?  Why not play the best.  And therefore, by playing the best, I knew I only had 1-11 chance of winning and it would not be easy.  I would need to change strategies many times over and constantly keep watch on everything.  Because of this, whoever the winner is, deserved a HUGE amount of points.  Will this mean he will out score everyone and be in all the Championships.  Oh there is a good shot.  but maybe a rule saying you can't be in two Championships in a row?

  For example, If Thin Lizzy wins the first Championship (and that is a "if), he will have huge points.  Then if I lose this war (and that's a big "if" ;-)  ) , then he will be millions of points ahead of me.  but if he can only play in every other game, maybe that leaves an opening for another Lizard to pop in?  And vise versa?  But either way, you win against the big boys, you deserve big points.  Evetually, if you are in too many Championship games, you will lose, and you will lose the biggest points of anyone .

-DD-

2665 days, 21 hours, 32 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Hummm, interesting.  I like the "qualifier" badge idea.  That lets people know as you are sitting at the bottom of the barrel that you were once considered great.  Of course you need to get past being called the best loser there is out there

"Hey, look at that grunt.  He was once an Admiral before he fell from grace!" 

Yea, I can live with that.....  ;-)

-DD-

2665 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I don't know about you guys but if I win a championship I retire my borg for only the less high stakes games! I predict this is going to be intense and take a lot out of everyone. Even on turn 2 people are modifying their "chess" entry moves.
I would still climb the leaderboard but in other races.
2665 days, 20 hours, 22 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Nice badge idea fruchtquake.

Sure take my achievement points away now -- I am confident that if Spacesquad does not win to supremely represent the Crystalline Confederation in the future, that there are others like Jademoon rising to the top that will do so in an extraordinary fashion.
2665 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
http://planets.nu/discussion/achievement-badges

The idea of awarding badges has been discussed before.  Lets resurrect the thread :)


2665 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes ago
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jm
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
In another year there could be 'contestant only matches'.

In order to play, you must have been a participant in a championship match.
2665 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oh, I like that idea.  get about 4 Championship matches out of the way..... and let the gun blaze!
2665 days, 19 hours, 8 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
re vepr:

yes, i know about the general badges discussion. i do not like having 963475879 badges on my profile. i was just talking about this one badge :)

one badge won't be too hard for the coders to implement and could be done "quickly"
2665 days, 18 hours, 57 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
hehe, don't want to look like a boy scout?

2665 days, 18 hours, 53 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
yeah right.. keep it simple :)
2665 days, 17 hours, 14 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Keep it simple ... yes that should be the slogan.

I like the badges idea of fruchtquake.

If you say (in the ante model):
- Cut the archievement of all participants in their played race down to 0 at the beginning. (entry fee)
- Do not give the (quote) special title of "Supreme Commander" of their race during the Championship game (/quote), but give him "forever" a title and a badge in his profile like
"Federal Captain Fruchtquake in the Taurus War" - and the nice taurus icon.
- The Winner get`s a nice "Crown" on the Icon and a changed title "... master, Emperor in the Taurus War"

That`s it. So the archievement someone got in the past is stored for the future (e.g. in the example above your old rank in that race), but you also have something like the so named archievement siphon so that newer players also have a chance.

With that documentation in the profiles there would be no need to give the winner archievment points  (or you give at the end of the game all players the archievement points that they would get in a "normal" game. So you would reduce the number of special rules.)

I would not make the fee dependent from the lowest points of all. Your full points are the risk and you get the chance, the thrill and (if joshua agrees with that idea) a badge in your profil.

And yes, of cause everyone will have got one or more points after the first turn, but I do not think that we have to talk in this round about some points? And in the case that someone of us has ended a game in the last hours i think the administrators can do something and look into a logfile or something like that.

Keep it simple.
Give other players also a change for a championship match.
Keep all participants as long as possible in the game.
Enjoy the game!

Othrym
2665 days, 17 hours, 1 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
By the way:

(quote)
"As each Championship match ends, the title of Emperor will pass from one player to another. Therefore, some Emperors may have shorter or longer periods of power. (much like normal history)"
(/quote)

What happens, if Dungeonmaster wins the Taurus War before Thin Lizzy wins the Scorpius War?

Then DM is our new Emperor and Thin Lizzy is the Prince of Vaals? 8D

*sorry - shy looking*

Othrym

PS: That problem also would be solved a bit with the badge idea as documentation of every war. Thin lizzy would have a badge in the profile...
2665 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I like the badge idea as well.

What comes to the achievement points - 1st option suggested earlier sounds the best to me but I don't really care. My strategy was to make it to the top of the leaderboard with Birds to get a chance to compete against the best. Now that I'm there, I don't care anymore what happens to the points. I will continue to play the other games I'm in, regardless of what happens to my points.

After the championship game is over for me, be it in 1st or 11th position, I will give a try to another race and try to make it to the top again :)

Good luck to everyone once more!
2665 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
and hey, dear spectators, we need more votes on where to aim the slingshot! 
2665 days, 16 hours, 22 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Instead of using this thread for designing the future of planets... lets have a little more role playing and trash talk!  :)

2665 days, 15 hours, 35 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yeah! You sorry bunch of 2nd hand champions! Let's hear some trash talk!

General Kota
2665 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
What happens if  admiral othrym wins the Taurus war before X wins the Scorpius?
Mr. 4516 achievement and 44 turn victory is *shy*? 

I'll take the first bullet jkovalainen.
2665 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes ago
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thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Shoot it at the COLONIES - hahahaha
2665 days, 15 hours, 25 minutes ago
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zelrik
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Is there a forum page to place bets yet? :)
2665 days, 15 hours, 21 minutes ago
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thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Bets are here
2665 days, 14 hours, 17 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oops! Sorry my vault. Thought i have read here something like game discussion board ;)

Well ... i like the stories of DM, Vepr etc. But as english is not my mothertongue (leo rules!) I am not as eloquent as others are ... but ok ... as I have started that design discussion with my request, i will give it a try ...

... The warning horn screams loud in the corriodors of the Meteor. The freshly baked Admiral Othrym, Chief Trader of the Space Gypsy, holds the book closer, in order not to loose it. Finally he arrives at the speed hoist, remembering himself the words of his chief mate via transcom. Something about a really big, strange formed ship with pulsing and morphing surface. Suppenly a flash and a feeling like at a morning after a nice party with to much Lizard Klag.

When the feeling and the light is gone the Chief Trader realized that he is sitting in a not too comfortable chair in a large shady room. If it is a room at all as he cannot see a ceiling.
The chair is part of circle of chairs. In every chair another person or stone? Strange!

Carefully  ensuring that he has not again forgotten his personal micro disruptor in his quarters, Othrym arises from his chair. A loud voice in his mind hurles him back to the seat.

"In your dreams you all were longing for a higher purpose. Your desire is the reason for your presence. You ... that are:
- Captain Fruchtquake of the Solar Federation
- Read-Admiral Dragondejhi of the Lizard Alliance
- Commodore JKovalainen Empire of the Birds
- Commodore Emork the lizard king of the Fascist Empire
- Admiral Othrym of the Privateer Bands
- Admiral Dungeonmaster of the Cyborg
- Commodore Bondservant of the Crystal Confederation
- Captain Sants of the Evil Empire
- Commodore Skiv of the Robotic Imperium
- Commodore Julius of the Rebel Confederation
- Commodore Veldan of the Missing Colonies of Man"

When a name is called a light from somewhere illuminated a chair.
Empire of Birds... well ok. Othrym has the feeling that Commodore JKovalainen looks a bit like a really angry bird, when his name was called. When his own name is called he has an idea why.  "Privateer Bands"? ..."I would like to test the new updates of the personal micro disruptor on that voice." Now also Othrym looks a bit angry - but than he realizes, that the voice is in his head and there the personal micro disruptor will not help in an acceptable way.
More Names more thoughts "Admiral Dungeonmaster .... lot of piercing ... the stone is a Commander ... well ... Commodore Skiv ... piercing contest ??? Commodore Veldan ... found him!"

After the presentation the voice continued.
"In this cluster your names have never been heard before. Here you loose all your ranks and titles and have to prove yourself from the very beginning.... with one planet, a freighter and some people. Once a cluster month I give you the change to accept a call to this hall for negotiations. You also can send ambassadors - if you find someone you can trust. In ten hours you are send to your new home. Enjoy the challenge. There can be only one!"
The voice ends and silence stayes in the room.

The lizard arises and lolls himself. The one who has been called Dungenmaster unbags a small box and opens it. Othrym takes a look on the book he has still in his hand and stores it in a bag of his pants. Then he also arises from his chair...


 
2665 days, 14 hours, 4 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
If the Taurus War ends first, the first Emperor will come from this sector. 
2665 days, 14 hours, 0 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Nice job othrym.  keep it up. your english is better than you think!!  (except for storing your book in the bag in your pants, that is funny to me for some reason.)  Always nice to see when people take up the roleplaying, it really livens up the game.  Hopefully, you guys will start to integrate in game events and play off each other in your messages. 

p.s. how do you know about my stories?  i don't think you were in any of the games that i used them in.  In fact, in our last game, DM and I were basically firing them off at one another since no-one else was contributing.  It was fun though.
2665 days, 13 hours, 49 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
2665 days, 13 hours, 47 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
that's a mighty scary pigeon you got there.  i would have though you would have picked a more intimidating bird.
2665 days, 13 hours, 46 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Those are just the ambassadors. Wait till you see my warlords.
2665 days, 13 hours, 37 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
othrym, I totally agree with everything you said in your "keep it simple" post.
2665 days, 12 hours, 22 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

2665 days, 12 hours, 20 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Excellent!  The secret colonial scheme of colonizing with only molybdenum and supplies is progressing smoothly!  Nobody will suspect that my secret plan of losing in order to win will inevitably pay off!
2665 days, 12 hours, 7 minutes ago
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turssi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
@veldan: laughing out loud :-) excellent plan.
2665 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
the feds embrace your decision for changing to an unconventional method of colonizing :)
2665 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The Colonial scientists reviewing the great molybdenum colonizing effort have learned that molybdenum and the mythical earth panda bear share two similar traits.
2665 days, 10 hours, 19 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

they both eat meat if nobody's watching?

----

we have a very international line up in this game with people living in
exotic places like the united states...

fruchtquake - germany
dragondejhi - usa
jkovalainen - finland
emork the lizard king - bavaria (which is not germany, haha)
othrym - bavaria
dungeonmaster - canada
bondservant - usa
sants - spain
skiv - russia
julius - south africa
veldan - usa

i guess the main ingame language will be english, while swearing should
rather take place in finnish or german - that sounds better ... spanish is also good.
and please note that if you are talking about the 'robot',  julius might picture a traffic light...

;)
2665 days, 10 hours, 18 minutes ago
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ronnle robot
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hey Veldan, playing the Robots in the Scorpius War I also tried this tactic, and honestly, it doesn't work. Just stick with conventional colonization and bring Colonists and Supplies on your freighters.
2665 days, 10 hours, 9 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Just for the record, swearing sounds a lot better in Russian!
2665 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'm guessing thin lizzy grows tired of mobilizing his fleet of paper airplanes to crash into gorbies, mines and 110 starbases somewhere.
Last time I translated your german correspondance using google translate it was "a fart crosswise that only now grows in size particularly our herrderunterwelt makes love to the bend". True story.
So I trust you, insults are in fact better in german, I'm not even sure to this day what the hell you meant but it sounded vicious. 

demotivational posters - CANADIAN BORG
see more Very Demotivational
2665 days, 5 hours, 17 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
A late hello to all other races of the Taurus cluster. Still 10, damned! Veldan, I can give advice in faster self destruction.

Klingons are confused. Is this the discussion board for the championship match or for Bondservant's tea party? Anyway, tea parties will be destroyed at first sight. As everything else.

---

P.S.: Great slingshot picture, jkovalainen!

P.P.S.: othrym's option 1 will full ante.

P.P.P.S: The "end turn" button should be disabled if you have a freighter with only moly and supplies on board. But this feature shouldn't be announced or documented.

2665 days, 4 hours, 9 minutes ago
View sants's profile
sants
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
WoW, i really can´t follow your spamming rythm!! After wake up, i have more than 20 messages only from this post, lol

Othrym, looks like you aren´t the only with no english mothertongue :P




2664 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
"Commodore!  Commodore!"

"Has anyone seen our commander?  Our fleet is in disarray.  The Ships captains are making decisions on their own.  We need our leader to guide us!"

***Meanwhile on the Lizard Homeworld***

A human, Tholian, and Gorn sit at a table in a garden sipping on tea and exchanging war stories;

"Excellent DragonDejhi, let me tell you about how I managed to win in the Australis system as the Lizards while only destroying 2000kt of ships.  You might want to consider using some of my unorthodox tactics in this match."

From the humans digital wristwatch. "Commodore!"

He hits the mute button.

A holographic image shows up infront of the human.  "Commodore!"

He waves his hand and dismisses the image.

The Gorn states, "it sssseemsss sssomeone isss looking for you."

"But I really want to tell you about this battle!"

The other two commanders, really not interested in how he won a war everyone lost interest in, implored the human to answer his messages.

"Alright, fine bond, you're correct, this could be serious... but it's early in our match, what could possibly be the problem?  So, if you'll excuse me."

Both of the Commanders rise and wish him well.

"How do I leave? Again?"

"Ssssecret Lizzard transsportation technology."

"Okay,"  he shrugs, "beam me away?"

The liz-o-matic transportation system is a true marvel in technology.  Capable of beaming anything from one tea party to another in any part of the universe.  Luckily, for the universe, Lizard foot soldiers despise tea , and cannot abide by the social graces required to convince the liz-o-matic transporter to transport them to another tea party in order to conquer it.

***On the colonial homeworld***

"Commodore!  Are you okay?"

Sitting at his own tea set the human raises his head off the table, a red circular shape on his forehead.

"By the gods, that thing hurts!"

"It's probably just the tea saucer you slammed your head into as you materialized in the chair, sir."

"So what's so damned important?  I was just telling the Lizard commander to rework his entire offensive strategy!"

"Sir, you know the colonists you lined up to go on the first freighter?"

"Of course, they should be just setting up housing on their new world by now, how are they doing?" 

"Well they're still at the docks sir!"

"What?"

"The ships captain thought you told him to load up molybdenum"

"He does?"

"Well here's the orders sir."

"Oh... yes... of course!  But that was G-12 classified, tell that captain to report back immediately, he's relieved of command!  I guess I'll tell you Lt. we were trying to experiment with alternative forms of colonization.  So now that everyone knows what happened, what were the results?"

"Umm... well the Captain beamed down the molybdenum... and it just sat there," the Lt. hesitantly states.

"What do you mean?  Sat there?"

"Well that's what it did, it materialized, and just sat there,"  the Lt. says slightly more confused.

"Interesting..."  The Commander strokes his chin for a minute, thinking.  "So when the sun came out... they continued to just sit there?" He asks inquiringly.

"Yes, sir, they did."

"Just like I thought, even on another planet molybdenum is just a metal..."  Veldan states whimsically.  "So we announced to everyone that we had conducted this grand experiment, correct?"  Now more assured of himself.

"Yes sir, we did!"

"And the opinions?"

"Well, everyone thinks you're a fool sir.  Overnight the bets on our success in this match, plummeted to the negatives.  And we think several of the commanders are thinking of recalling their ambassadors."

"Excellent, just as I had hoped!"

"Well sir, so we are kind of in a tough spot here."  The lt. states slightly confused.

"What do you mean, everything is going according to plan?"  Veldan states flatly.

"This isn't the plan we were following sir?"

"Of course!  You didn't have the need to know.  But all the while we were following plan B!"

"Plan B?"

"Plan B!"  The Commodore says slowly and even more self-assured.

"And what is this plan B sir?"

"Well come closer and I'll tell you."

The Lt. leans in and Veldan tells him the plan, the Lt. gins happily and slaps his hand on his knee.

"Well that is an excellent plan sir!"

"That's what I thought when I thought of it!"  Veldan exclaims.

"So all of these mistakes actually put us in a better spot than what we would have been if we had followed plan A?"

"Of course!  What?  Do you think I actually INTENDED to colonize a planet with a metal?"

"Well, everyone makes mista.."

"NONSENSE!"  Veldan interrupts tersely.

silence....

Veldan turns to the large window overlooking a blue planet...

"I don't make mistakes.  Anything that looks like a mistake is merely an... interesting opportunity.  Do we have that straight Lt.?"

"Y-y-y-yes sir."  The Lt. says trembling.

"You had best be happy that I am not the Evil Emperor, or you would find yourself on the wrong side of the Schwartz."

"It's the For... fortune of all of us to be working under such a wise and benevolent Commander sir."

"So say we all, Lt."

"So say we all!"  The Lt. states emphatically.
2664 days, 16 hours, 0 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
How Delightful!

Please do tell us more ....
2664 days, 15 hours, 15 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
B stands for Balloons right?
2664 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
*** Klingon foreign intelligence headquarter ***

Sir, we have news about the experimental molybdenum genesis project of the Colonies. You demanded to be informed immidiatly.

What is it?

Sir, it was stable!

What???

The molybdenum was stable on the planet, Sir.

Damned! Any reactions from the other races?

We have no confirmed informations yet, Sir! But there are rumors all around that this cluster can't be conquered by regular tactics. We expect scientists of all other races already working on countermeasures to the new Colonial weapon. Do you have orders?

We must not fall back. Let me think ...

Sir, may I suggest something?

Do so.

We could drop molybdenum on an amorphous planet and see what happens, Sir.

Not a bad idea, Lieutenant, but too obvious. No, we need something really powerfull and surprising ... Ah, yes! That's it!

Sir?

We just built this really big space freighter, isn't it? Load it with all our Duranium and Tritanium, fly it in the warp point well of our glorious homeworld and jettison all cargo. Har! No one will expect this move!

Sir, that's brilliant!

2664 days, 12 hours, 27 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I sense something very Dr. Strangelove coming on.....
2664 days, 8 hours, 45 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
"But there are rumors all around that this cluster can't be conquered by regular tactics." 


true true..

Perhaps it's time to resurrect "Project H" from the Nixon system?

http://planets.nu/discussion/nixon-system-3

The birds were working on it before dungeonmaster ran away with the game...alas...the work was never finished.

2664 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
ohh now, not the "fart crossfire" :)

For true google translate fun, try copy/pasting some of plague's Finnish rants and see what comes out.  Pure comedic genius.
2664 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

The Admiral answered the com. “Report Captain.”

“Sir, we are showing signs of Bovinoids on the planet.  Lots of them. Maybe a million”

“Great! Check the scans. Tell me what you have.”

“I thought there were more.  But life scans show about 900,000 of them.  A good start.”

“Ah, maybe luck is on our side.  Find their location on the planet so we can set up show.”

“ Humm, they seem to be on the north side of the planet.  Odd, signs now show 700,000 of the natives.”

With the scales sticking up on the back of his neck, the Admiral continued the questioning. “Very well, show me the largest concentration.”

The view screen popped up with the scene of a large field holding the large population of the creatures.  Seeing something strange the Admiral wanted a closer look. “ Tighten up the screen. Let’s get a closer look.”

“Sir, scans show only a few hundred natives now.”

A frown crossed the lips of the admiral as he was absently chewing on the fingers of a native from the last colonization effort. “ Dah! Looks at the ground.  It’s not moving.  Those are worms streaming out of the ground.  They have the last stronghold of the bovs surrounded.”

“I hate Amorphs!” the Admiral screamed.  “Those blobish creates taste worse than Crystilines!”

As the scene on the screen started to fade, the Admiral and Captain could see the bovs holding up signs to ward of the amorps.  Simple words, it just stated… “Eat More Chicken!”


Hummm, the Lizard lord muttered to himself. “For some reason I am hungry, maybe we should visit the Birdman homeworld?”

2664 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
UNIMATRIX 1 CALCULATION: ASSIMILATE MASSIVE HUMANOID SUPER CLUSTER
PRODUCE STARBASE IN YEAR 005
PRODUCE WAR CUBE IN YEAR 006
LAUNCH OFFENSIVE

Or build another probe. Probably build another probe.

2664 days, 3 hours, 14 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Section 31 HQ, somewhere deep inside the Federation Territory.

Sloan: Sir, we have excellent news. Our spies on Qo'nos and Gorn Prime have found out 
that they are buying the story of the Colonies of Men.

Director: That is indeed great news. I am still curious how you changed the transport 
logs and beamed those poor colonists directly into the sun before beaming in valuable 
Ressources needed for building those dangerous Carriers.

Sloan: You will find it in my report. I ll have it finished within the our. I am sure 
you will be pleased. The incident cannot be tracked back to us. 

Director: Excellent. And it is great to see that the Colonies of Men are spreading 
rumours about new ways of colonizing. All Intelligence Agencies of the quadrant were 
suspicious. With some of your agents in the Klingon Intelligence reporting that the 
Colonies of Men are indeed testing new weapons of mass destruction the Klingons had to 
buy it. They are always eager to believe that someone is about to attack them. And the 
Gorn that have even smaller brains also believe in this. 

Sloan: Luckyly the so called Klingon Intelligence is not so smart after all. Their 
Intelligency agency is full of holes. I suspect that even the Gorn have infiltraed them 
with several spies - let alone the Tal Shiar that have at least 12 agents in that 
operation. And those are just the ones we know of.

Director: Allright. I have other things that need my attention right now. Keep me 
updated on this matter. I am interested to see when the Klingons and Gorn feel the need 
to attack the Colonies of Men. I am sure that you already have plans when the battle 
begins?

Sloan: I indeed have some ideas. I ll keep you posted.

2663 days, 6 hours, 12 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oh No ! I am already behind.
Can the Feds, Borgs, Crystals, Empire and Rebels be stopped from their frantic expansion?
Do I even have a small chance to piece out a small holding for my extended family?
Will peace be threatened while I tend the ranch of crickets and watch the clutch of eggs?
Please don't make me go down and wake the sleeping dragon... he get's awfully grumpy...

we shall see what happens, there may still be hope...
2663 days, 2 hours, 31 minutes ago
View julius's profile
julius
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The junior intelligence officer enters the War Room, Commodore Johnny looks up from the star charts he is busy studying and asks.
"Are those the intelligence reports the other Commanders that I asked for?'
"Yes Sir" replies the officer, handing the 400 page document over to Commodore Johnny, "I have prepared a short summary of each commander, It does not look good Sir, Yo...We..might be a bit out of our depth, Yo...We..are too...nice."
"Mmmm", Commodore Johnny stares at the officer, pulls out his blaster and kills him. "I suppose people can change" he smiles.."Change, that is what we need.....I want a new Flag and we are going to be revising our strategies, bring me all the ship plans, we are going to be doing a few revisions".

Johnny starts reading the reports and suddenly exclaims "Can some one please tell me what the Universal traffic Department is thinking putting up Robots in a War Zone...?". The senior intelligence officer replies "No Sir, I think you misunderstand, those are not Traffic Lights...they are a race of Mechanical Beings".

Lizzy, I presume you have visited my wonderful country...:)
2662 days, 16 hours, 22 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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WOOt! The new strategy seems to work. After the first meeting in the dark hall, he was sure that all hope is lost.
His thoughts return to that bad moments. First he went to the Bird Man. Some nice words as introduction, a humble request. The answer? A angry piercing glance that can freeze stars. Even the big ones. Just like talking to a stone. Worse.
Well ok, that was only the first attempt. Stone. Ok, can only get better, he thought. So he walked to the stone ... sorry ... Commodore Bondservant. Putting forth his hand as greeting he realized that the Commodare wasn't cold. His "skin" radiated heat. The following conversation was much better. Nevertheless Othrym realized within the next hours, all other commanders have first much better warships and second most of them have heard reports about him and his trading strategies. Really bad. No good standing.
Luckily Commodore Veldan had a ... free copy of one ships plans. The Lady Royale Class Cruisers. Nice idea.

After the announced 10 hours they indeed got a transport to there new homeworlds. Nice planet. But after the meeting he knows, that he could not follow his old and proven strategy. It's hard to know what to do. ... well ... so he took his strategy cards and tries to  to tell the fortune. Coins as path. ... the gambling ship!

Now - some month later - he proud looks through the porthole onto his first fleet of gambling ships. That will be his new strategy. Gambling Ships all over the custer. MegaCredits, video clips of captains in obvious situations and some addition credits will help much, open doors.

He also discerns that with this new wonderful ships he reached at the moment the highest military rank. Strange ... with gambling ships? Maybe DM and the others are still only building probes and freighters? Well ok, but probes and also freighters are very uncomfortable and narrowing. There the new gambling ships will be indeed a welcome relief ...

2662 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oops, looks like the little HYP ship tried to land at the wrong planet... What a shame ...

Be it known, HYP ships do not constitute colonization.  They will not be tolerated...

from you local lizard lover...
2662 days, 6 hours, 20 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oops, looks like the little HYP ship tried to land at the wrong planet... What a shame ...

Be it known, HYP ships do not constitute colonization.  They will not be tolerated...

from you local lizard lover...
2662 days, 6 hours, 12 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Very unfortunate. These dense clusters are totally unpredictable. If I were to restrict my jumping to non-cluster planets there would be only 1/10th of the map. I'm shooting in the dark, for the viewers at home only 1/10th of the map is not linked by warp 9. It is far from standard. There will be loses...

How do you only have 5 planets in such a big cluster Veldan?! Molybdenum colonizing effort...
2661 days, 22 hours, 52 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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*** Klingon foreign intelligence headquarter ***

Sir, our sensors revealed activities. You demanded to be informed immidiatly.

What is it?

It seems that more races jumped on the bandwagon of unorthodox strategies, Sir!

Go ahead!

Through the observation of trajectory deviations we identified three newly built starbases.

Late enough. So what?

Sir, these bases do belong neither to the Lizards nor the Rebels but to the Birds, the Colonies and the Borg.

Three races have built a second base before the Lizards? What the heck is Dragondejhi going to do with his minerals!? Wait ... Maybe the Lizards have infiltrated us and are copying our jettison experiments. By the way, what's the result of these?

We're making progress, Sir. We found that by jettison minerals in space we free our cargo room.

Sounds promising. Put more effort in this. Something else?

Yes, Sir! The Borg in this cluster don't use Cubes as primary attack vessels but Probes.

That's another odd tactic but it fits in the picture. I already expected something like this. Let's build even more Small Transports with heavy blasters. They're the perfect answer for the Borg threat. Har!

As usual I have to admire your foresight, Sir.
2661 days, 14 hours, 31 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I know why there are so many crammed clusters. It's under 1000 ly in radius!?! I didn't bother to measure until right now.
Joshua this really isn't "standard" VGA, the late game races are likely going to get smashed.
We'll have cloakers and battleships on our tails much much sooner.
The standard map is 2000x2000 and this is a 1000 ly circle. So we have 4/3.14 significantly higher density. That's why it "looks" screwed up.
I'll play it through, but I'm not happy about it and I'd like to hear other people's opinions.
2661 days, 12 hours, 54 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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Before anyone says anything stupid like "this won't affect game balance" the physical area of the playing space has dropped and so that same web field now defends/attacks 1.27x as many planets and the victory condition is specifically territory controlled.  
I have fireclouds - do you?

Math... I am tired...
2661 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
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zelrik
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
While the map is a bit tight (radius 1000 instead of 1150 default), the density is only 10% higher (it is not a perfect circle) than a square map. There is no factor 2 dungeonmaster.
2661 days, 12 hours, 39 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Factor of 2 = my brain on crack. Mea Culpa. It is more like 30%, definitely more than 10%.
A 2000x2000 square is now a 1000 ly circle, it's non-trivial. 
2661 days, 12 hours, 7 minutes ago
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veldan
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It's probably close to 10%. 3.14/4 eq about 78.5%. Our map is not a perfect circle but probably more like a rounded square...kinda. I like rounding the edges, but would prefer a more perfect circle of about 1125 - 1130 ly radius. Which would have the same area as a standard map.
2661 days, 11 hours, 50 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
ooo correlated statistics!
2661 days, 9 hours, 12 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Stardate 6
Capt Underhill's log;Under Commodore Veldan's wise orders we have been ordered to scout the xxxx system.  Initial bioscans came up negative, shielded by radiation from the nearby star.

"Captain! report to the bridge immediately!"

The bridge of the pride of the Colonial fleet the "COBOL CLASS RESEARCH CRUISER" looked impressive, with modern curved plastic consoles, and flashing lights behind glass.  The experimental ram scoop drive was functioning superbly.  On the screen approached a ship that told the Capt that he was in for a real bad day.

"What is that!"  he yelled as he spit his coffee out of his mouth

A menacingly huge cube shaped ship flew into the viewscreen, it was readying to launch its attack craft.

"We read it as a Cyborg Biocide Class Carrier sir."

On the view screen a red robed figure appeared.  

The Capt thought to himself, well that looks like a reasonable old man with whispy white hair and a friendly smile.

.

"I am Dungeonmaster of the Borg, eh.  Resistance is Futile, you will now service us ya hosers."

"They're Borg!"  Claimed one ensign

"They're Canadian!" claimed another.

"Canadian Borg!  I hate Canadian Borg, even when they bring their tasty bacon."  The Capt said with a whince.

The figure spoke again, this time in French

"They really are Canadian!"  said the Capt.

The small craft rocked back and forth while being pummeled by high energy blasts.

The Capt wasn't a praying man, but this day he knew of only one godlike being that could undo the will of the Dungeonmaster.

Falling to his knees with his arms spread wide he began to pray.

"Oh great Game Master!  Your archnemesis the Dungeonmaster has put this encounter too early in the adventure to be of the appropriate encounter level!  This foe is the equivalent of 20 +8 HD Dragon when we should be facing an Orc with only 2 or maybe 3 HD.  Can't you perhaps let us bluff our way out of this with a charism check?  I mean I put 15 points in it for a reason and you never let me use it!"

"I demand a change to this encounter, it is unfair!  If you do not abide by my wishes I shall take my Mountain Dew Cube and my Ipod of great fight music home and never return to your table!"

"Also, make sure next time he only speaks in the common tongue, none of us spent skill points on other languages.  Thank You great Game Master!"

At that, the ensign monitoring the sensors said, "Oh my!  Captian my intial readings were wrong, it seems I had a gross miscalculation of scale.  New readings coming in, yessir, it is actually only a small B200 class probe!"

"Excellent, I knew the Gamemaster wouldn't let us down, unlike 4th Edition!"

"Fire at will, one photon torpedo only though, let's not waste ammo"

"Now be careful about getting any borg lodged in the ram scoop, the scoop doesn't react well to borg trash."

<<>>>
"Sir, reports are coming in!  The Klingons are dumping minerals in deep space hoping to exceed the success we had from the molybdenum gensis project!"

"Silly fools", spits Commodore Veldan.  "They don't even know what kind of success they are looking for!"

"Also sir, reports from the Privateers state that they are opening up a chain of Gambling Space Hotels using the Lady Royale Design they stole from us some years back!"

"What!  Insolent bastards!"  Quickly change interstellar commerce laws to outlaw privateer owned hotels from operating within our space."

"But sir, people have already begun talking about them, they are lining up in droves to begin gambling amongst the stars."

"Really?  There's a demand for such foolishness?

"Yessir there is."

"Hmm, start spreading lies about the Privateers then, stir up rumors like... the hotels have andorian bed bugs, or the prostitutes are NOT from eroticon 6, and other such nonsense."

"Yessir."

"Dedicate the production of our new starbase to the Gambling Resort and Casino Commission, we will dominate all interstellar lodging needs, those petulent pirates don't know what kind of fight they're digging up here!"
2661 days, 9 hours, 7 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Just remember, if you are going to insult the canadian borg, you have to do it in both english AND french!  They are very particular about that.
2661 days, 8 hours, 56 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
LA RESISTANCE EST FUTILE.
VOUS ALLEZ ETRE ASSIMILEE.
IL N'YA PAS D'ACCENTS DANS CE FORUM.
ON PROTESTE LA DISCRIMINATION DES BORG QUEBECOIS.
2661 days, 8 hours, 45 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
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One thing I always found interesting about Canada.  You are bilingual, so everything has to be in both english and french.  all the paperwork, store fronts, signs, etc  The francophones will foam at the mouth about how you can't discriminate against french speakers....unless you are in Quebec, in which case it's ok to only speak and display signs in French.  Same in the military.  All the english speakers were fluent in French as well, but not all the French speakers spoke English.  i had people in Montreal giving me dirty looks when I spoke to them in English. I am going to learn a few French curse words the next time I am going over there. 

or maybe ill just tell them
LA RESISTANCE EST FUTILE.
VOUS ALLEZ ETRE ASSIMILEE.

:)
2660 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The same is true for the original French. They often dislike other languages especially English.
Of course this is a generalization and is not true for every French.

P.S.: Klingons are even worse!
2660 days, 20 hours, 40 minutes ago
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turssi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well, English is such an ugly language that the aforementioned observations come as no surprise. People should speak beautiful languages like Portuguese or Finnish!

(or just play vgaplanets)
2660 days, 15 hours, 23 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
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*** Transmission to Confederation High Command - Recording of Commodore Discussion ***

Shelob here, Sir Bond.  Reporting as requested.

Ah yes.  Shelob, please give me a summary of our status in this galaxy, from the beginning.

From the beginning .. again .. Sir?

Yes, you know that those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it?  And it helps me think too.

Certainly.  From the beginning....

Not long ago, you were approached by High Command of the Crystal Confederation to lead our forces to win total control and power in the Taurus galaxy.  They approached you after feeling Commodore Nitemare needed a little more experience.  And our Supreme Commander is still occupied.  So they feel you might have the best chance to emulate the kind of strong start to galactic control that has been proven by Sir Spacesquad.

Yes Yes .. Spacesquad this .. Spacesquad that.  Believe me, I know all about the successes of your personal Hero.

Sir Bond, I am here as YOUR Chief Adviser to assist YOU as best I can.  And of course to be sure you follow all of the High Command's directives.  

Back from the beginning.  We were informed that Taurus is different than other galaxies; Taurus is newly discovered and it is of utmost strategic importance to the Crystalline.  We can not share this galaxy with other Races, as you have done so in every other galaxy you have dominated.

We gained many good allies in those galaxies.  My allies have helped the Confederation grow to great prominence in the universe.  Do not forget that Shelob!

Nevertheless, you know that I am also here to be sure that you do not make allies in this galaxy.  Allies are not an option here.

Yeah Yeah.  I understand what the Confederation wants.  So summarize our current status here since our colonizing fleet has arrived.

Sir Bond, we established our first starbase on a very pleasant desert planet and scanned the Taurus galaxy.  There appear to be 10 other Races that have chosen a leader to take planets and build ships here.  We know personally or by reputation all of these leaders.  The three most prominent are Admirals for their Races:  DungeonMaster of the Borg, Othrym of the Privateers, and DragonDejhi of the Lizards.

I believe DragonDejhi is better known by his fellow Lizards as a Rear Admiral, for obvious reasons.

Ahhh yes.  Tis true.  Rumour has it that he often "protects" the Rear of the Lizard invasion force so that he can get a head start anytime he sees someone coming at him with eight legs.

Hehehe.

Hehe.  Also in this galaxy are very aggressive Commanders, such as Skiv of the Robots, Julius of the Rebels, and Veldan of the Colonies.  Both JKovalainen of the Birds and Emork of the Fascists (with rumored Lizard blood) are also known to be bruising.  And then there is the economic genius Sants of the Evil Empire and the up-and-coming Fruchtquake of the Feds (whom also gets teased quite a bit).

Quite the cast.  And how well is their colonization going since they have all arrived?

Dare I say -- their starts are impressive Sir Bond.  Some appear to be doing better than ourselves.  Three Races already have two starbases and are building two ships a turn -- the Birds, the Borg, and the Colonies.  Far from us, in the southwest sector of the galaxy, there was first blood -- with the Colonies presenting a warm welcoming committee to a Borg Probe visiting one of his planets.

Just one Borg Probe struck down so far?  From the looks of the universe, the Borg have a huge advantage to assimilate his core cluster.  He soon will have several HomeWorlds of Borg all in his collective.  Please keep a close eye on him.

Others are also dangerous Sir, in their own right.  I have put reports on your desk.

Very good.  Please continue to execute our plans ....
2660 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
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With the advent of this new war?  Has anyone else lost track of the old one?

Are the emperor battles pinned anywhere?  and if not i would like to suggest links on the main page ;)
2659 days, 21 hours, 46 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
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*** Transmission to Confederation High Command - Recording of Commodore Discussion ***

Sir Bond, we have new scouting reports showing that the Borg Hive now has three Homeworlds in their primary cluster.  They are heavily mining their planets with no mercy to local habitat - ensuring they can build their Fireclouds and Cube ships soon.  They have four more Homeworlds already in assimilation formation due to their extensive use of Probes.  They have built three starbases so far so they can send more Probes and build freighters to extend their Hive to planets close and far from them.  There will soon be more Borg in this galaxy than all other enemy colonists combined.

And yet the Borg Ambassador enjoying our hospitality tells me they are disadvantaged in this galaxy?  Please inform our High Command.  I must ponder this aggressive development ....
2658 days, 19 hours, 25 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
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And Finally on turn 9 someone posts the map.

So there's a big ole lump in the north east, I imagine there's a strange distribution up there (3 - 4 races), everything else seems classic home worlds in a circle.


2658 days, 19 hours, 23 minutes ago
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fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
you forgot to add your location ;)
everybody should know it anyway
2658 days, 19 hours, 19 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yup, everyone should know where, myself, the borg, and the fascists are at.  (We're all kinda west coast)
2658 days, 17 hours, 35 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
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Rear Admiral DragonDejhi was lounging in his chair sipping on a cup of Klag and smoking the newest brand of pipe weed liberated from the colonist of a nearby planet.  He was relaxed, but growing quite bored when his Captain burst into the room.
  "Admiral!" They all knew he hated to be called anyone's rear.
  "It seems a flock of canaries have attacked a freshly laid nest of hatchlings and pecked them to death."
  " Really?" is all he said when he gently set down his mug and pipe.  He gently, but purposely striped of his smoking jacket to show his war gear.
  "Yes sir.  Is that all you have to say?  What are your orders?"
  "Calm and level heads are my order.  There is always room for diplomacy.  I only have three words really say," he mumbled as he walked away.
  The Captain noticed a steely glare focus within his eyes and a slight grin spread across his lips.
  "Thank you," was a whisper barely heard across the room. "Finally."
2658 days, 16 hours, 22 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
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2658 days, 10 hours, 44 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hey all, as we move to 3 times a week I'm not certain how the schedule is going to be decided, but I would like to have host run on tuesday, thursdays, and sundays.  I know it's kinda nitnoid... but if others do't have a problem with it, I'd like to have it set like that. 
2658 days, 9 hours, 19 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
thursday turns are usually the hardest to do.
i would suggest tuesday, friday and sunday so that you have 1 more day during the week for making the turn.
2658 days, 8 hours, 25 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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Hummm, major problems with the game.  Are we on hold until it gets fixed?

-DD-
2658 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
It's what Josh used to do.. delay host by several hours.  I wonder what ever happened to rolling changes out to the test group before making them live....
2658 days, 7 hours, 43 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'm actually at a conference guys, that explains why the quality of my communication and turns has dropped. The current issues with the interface affect me, but not unduly. I can more or less play by eye at this point.
2658 days, 7 hours, 3 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
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We're going to sort this out. Don't worry, the game data itself is fine there are just a few client side issues that need working out. We're going to slow down to 3 turns per week starting now (a couple turns early).  

We should have this sorted out this evening the next host won't run until Friday. 


2658 days, 7 hours, 0 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
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Thanks Josh.  I assume that means host will not run tonight right?  I am confident all will work out good.

-DD-
2658 days, 6 hours, 39 minutes ago
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joshua
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The problems are all resolved. Next host will be on Friday as stated. So you all get a day off. Take a spin on one of Veldan's Lady Royale's.... :)  


2657 days, 19 hours, 50 minutes ago
View figak's profile
figak
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Go dungeonmaster!!

We trust you shall beat our race's performance in the Scorpius war.

Our thoughts are one ;)


2657 days, 1 hours, 35 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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Hm ... advertising only for one races Lady Royale's ... not fair ... but ok ... in the end the quality and service will rule!


... with a energetic gesture Admiral Othrym hurls the magnum bottle against the shining surface of the new flagship of his Casino starship fleet. Ouch! Carefully Othrym looks left and right whether anyone has realized the dint. Good luck. The cameras have their focus on the launch itself. He will have to inform his chief engineer to reinforce the hull at this sector a bit. Now Othrym's sight also follows the lauch. Wonderful. He has given it the name "Casino Commodore Veldan". That will build bridges ...
2656 days, 8 hours, 22 minutes ago
View coldsteel's profile
coldsteel
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Thanks for the map, looks awesome!
2654 days, 11 hours, 32 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
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*** Transmission to Confederation High Command - Recording of Commodore Discussion ***

Sir Bond, if the enemy Ambassadors are to be trusted, while it is already Cycle 11 of Operation Taurus, besides our finely constructed minefields, there are only 3 other minefields in the entire galaxy.

Surely you jest Shelob?

No sir.  Amazingly I do not.  Of course, we will have our empire covered very soon.  Anyone that decides to visit us unannounced will get our normal greetings.

Excellent.  Let's hope we will have someone we can welcome in our unique way very soon.
2653 days, 18 hours, 28 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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THE COLLECTIVE POSSESS MANY IMPRESSIVE MINEFIELD UNITS.
UNIMATRIX ID 1, 2, 3 and 6.
AH, MR BOND, WE HAVE BEEN EXPECTING YOU TO JOIN THE MINEFIELD CLUB.
BEWARE THE SPIDER WHO LOVED YOU. MR. BOND.


2653 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
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Hummm, interesting trading going on.....  I see Crystal probes, the privateers gained 3 ships with only 2 starbases?  Oh how I envy the inventive production of the privateers.  The rebels lose a freighter?  Could it be a beamless fighter carrier?  Meanwhile, the education centers are open within the lizard newly developed planets.  That is the only way we shall overcome the fascists, oops, I mean tyrannical greed of others.  Through enlightenment is the lizard way!

-=The DragonDejhi=- 
2653 days, 6 hours, 59 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
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Captain Gar`nlok was cautiously picking the last of the fungus from beneath this toenails when his second started constantly rambling about something.
  "Yes, yes, what is it?"
  "Spacemites sir.  They're attacking that vessel ahead."
  "What?  Spacemites?  I hate those nasty critters!!!  Set beams to kill them.  We need to rid that poor vessel of the pests before they eat it's hull to breach level.  Fire now!  Well, go ahead.  Kill them beggers!!!"
  The beams of the scout ship fired on a wide setting frying the spacemites into oblivion.
  "Scan the exterior of the ship," the captain ordered.  "Did it work?"
  "Yes sir," the second answered. "But, there is a problem. It seems the ship is damaged as well."
   "Oh, that's too bad.  Who's ship is it anyway?"
  "  The Romulans sir."
  " Well, what are we waiting for.  Send crews over to the ship to help.  Those featherweights can't hold a ship together. Our crews will be able to keep the hull together until it can land to repair."
  The Captain thought about it a moment, then continued.  "In fact, better send some troops down to the planet where it is going to repair.  Those birdbrains will never be able to repair the ship before we need to leave."
  "Ahem, begging your pardon Cap.  Some could see that as an aggressive move sir."
  "What?  Aggressive?  No, nonsense. We damaged the ship while trying to save it for those chicken-lipped space mongers.  Surely they will be happy to see some help beaming to the planet to fix things up for them.  All we have been doing is helping out.  There is not a commander in the galaxy that would see it any other way.  After all, the Lizards are lovers........"

~~~  So, there you have it.  One planet taken from the lizard alliance, one planet must be returned, plus a little something something for intrusion payment.  All is now fair and even.~~~

-=The DragonDejhi=-
2652 days, 18 hours, 37 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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2651 days, 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
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fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Section 31 HQ

Sloan is standing in front of great monitors. Displays show various fleet movements, production logs while other show ongoing operations on several foreign worlds. He is holding a pad, reading it carefully while one of his companions is awaiting his orders. When Sloan finished reading, he turns to a computer and opens up a strategic map of the echocluster and infos about a strange looking creature.

Spy : So.. our predictions were correct Sir. These mechanical creatures are a threat to the Federation.

Sloan : The Senate of the Federation are fools. We have provided them with enough information that should have convinced them that these robots are planning to strike against us. And sadly enough, we were right once more. They have just taken one of our colonies, slaughtering 6.000 colonists. It is time to strike back - i ll make sure the Senate will listen.

Spy : Do we know where they came from? We could start leaking information about their origin. After they have launched this massive attack with 2 Big Carriers and a ships that seems to be laying minefields they will surely be an easy prey for whoever is next to them.

Sloan : Patience my friend, we are already working on it as we speak. Indeed, they have launched everything they got. What a foolish plan. Go and get some more intel about the specifications of their ships. Starfleet needs to be prepared when those ships arrive.

Spy : Consider it done, Sir.
2648 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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The Admiral walked into the command center only to notice his crew laughing out loudly.  Some were on the floor holding their bellies, tears flowing down their scaled cheeks.

  "Control my Lizards!" the Admiral yelled with authority.  "What's going on?  Why are you not scanning the planet like I asked you."

  "We are sir.  That's the problem. Take a look at the mining colony yourself." the ensign pleaded while trying to breath between laughs.

  The Admiral looked at the control panel showing the mining colony below.  "Ah, I see."

  Below was a birdman mining colony.  The Birdmen were trying to pick up rocks of minerals with their feathered wings.  The rocks kept slipping between the feathers. They could never hold onto the minerals and thus nothing was being gathered.  Hundreds of them were trying to grab rocks with their wings only to have them fall through like sand from a strainer.  A few became desperate and were grabbing small pebbles with their beaks and running them over to a container.  After many trips back and forth they almost had a handful of pebbles.

  "Well, this is not funny.  This will take them forever.  What kind of neighbors are we to just stand by and watch them make fools of themselves.  Send a crew down there to help them mine.  A few Lizards will do a years work of that entire colony in a day."

  " Sir, another report."
  "What is it?"
  "It seems the birds have attacked one of our ships and destroyed it." a small grin was escaping the Lizards lips"
   "Do you think that's funny?  You're bucking for a demotion son."
  " No sir.  You don't understand.  It was their own ship full of birdmen prisoners.  They killed themselves.  At this rate, we don't even need to fight them.  We will just let them keep destroying their own ships and then they will never have the minerals to build more.  Well, unless they are all the size of finches?"

  "Back to your stations lizards.  Those Resolutes are still out there.  There will be hell to pay before this is all over. Mark my word.  Not all races are as peaceful and willing to help others as the alliance. "
2648 days, 5 hours, 38 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
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Hummmmmm,

 I sense someone sensing me ;-)
2644 days, 21 hours, 6 minutes ago
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seveiht
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its been pretty quiet on here :(

entertain us! haha
2644 days, 20 hours, 48 minutes ago
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seveiht
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Klingon Brand Tribbles and Bits are a Proud sponsor of the Taurus system galactic conquest!


2644 days, 20 hours, 30 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
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WE ARE BORG.
WE HAVE BEEN TRAVELING DUE TO A HIGHER POWER KNOWN AS "WORK".
WE WILL ASSIMILATE "WORK" AND PROVIDE ENTERTAINMENT AT A FUTURE DATE.
MAYBE SUNDAY.
2644 days, 20 hours, 16 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
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You know the old saying goes, "In space no one can hear you scream".  But no matter what, even a vacuum can't stop the incessant shouting of the Borg from travelling between planets.
2644 days, 20 hours, 15 minutes ago
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warthog44
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2644 days, 20 hours, 15 minutes ago
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warthog44
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2644 days, 20 hours, 12 minutes ago
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warthog44
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2644 days, 20 hours, 3 minutes ago
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othrym
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Sorry Seveiht .... had some days of awfull headaches because of a cold. Only made my turns and read about the new page functions ... build a out game starbase and modified ships .... by the way ...

((somewhere far far away ...))

Proudly Admiral Othrym walked along the X10L display in his new command center. The sections show the new starships that the starbases has build this month. Wonderful ships. With a gesture he hurled an Aut-Rob'Ot away from the display, who was still removing an inventory label with strange and foreign signs on it. ... Yes .... perfect ships ... precise lines ... shining surfaces ... inviting illumination.

The new casino ships have got names according to the new name guide line (for reference: TCN-017-NGL-V1.0):
- The first ship in a very airy design: Casino The Angry Commodore
- The second ship in a compact design: Casino The Propellent Admiral
- The third ship in a straight design: Casino The Helpful rAd'miral
- And finally the fourth ship in a well-arranged design: Casino The Knowing Captain

Indeed .... Wonderful ships. The start in the new cluster was not as bad as expected. Even while there where first reports of resource bottlenecks.
Then Othrym`s gaze stopped at the fifth ship. Five? With a gesture he summons his Chief Engineer in order to whisper a short question into his ear.

"Why five. The reports told me that we have build four starbases up to now."

"Indeed Admiral. The reports are right. And the fifth ship is the monthly production of the secret multi layer cloaked starbase SMLCS-01. You know the top secret project about a starbase that has a cloaking component strong enough to even irritate the galactic super report scanner GSRS so that those cannot list the starbase or assign it mistakenly to another race."

"Well ok, your right. Thank you for the reminder. But why is that ship so shabby?"

"I am sorry but the new cloaking works so good that we have lost the communication to the starbase. Thus on the one hand we cannot send new instructions - like "please decloak" or the new ship construction plans - and on the other hand it looks as if the scientist crew of SMLCS-01 has found some ancient construction plans on the planet beneath the station. In this way the station produces one ship after the other and we have no control over the kind of the new ships. But they work well and some of them carry with them new technologies."

"Well ok. But give it at least a new paint."

.........

2644 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes ago
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othrym
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> You know the old saying goes, "In space no one can hear you scream".  But no matter what, even a vacuum can't stop the incessant shouting of the Borg from travelling between planets.

The problem may be not the vacuum which is doing its job well ... maybe the problem is the inter atmosphere linking chunnel (IALC) from one planet to another?
2642 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes ago
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bondservant
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For those of you who may be following The Taurus War, it is now Turn 16 and well over half of the planets have been colonized and over half of the ships have been built.  The general positions of the Races have been revealed.  Due to the nature of having several large connected clusters in the galaxy, small hostilities have already broken out -- pitting four Races against four other Races.  Hence, as evidenced by the Cyborg's huge lead in planets already, this has allowed the Borg to start taking over the center of the galaxy, with no resistance so far.  As you read the future roleplay by the participating Taurus Commanders, the map shown below may be of assistance to better follow the story lines.  It shows my general understanding of where all the Races are located and whom is currently skirmishing with whom.  The map also shows my confirmed (in brown) and the suspected due to ship sitings (in pink) locations of the clusters in the Center that the Borg has already colonized.  It is unknown who is colonizing the nice slightly north-of-center clusters (in green) -- although I suppose it is possible that the collective has already spread that far as well.

What happens from here is anybody's guess....


2642 days, 13 hours, 24 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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2642 days, 11 hours, 41 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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Hmm.. Mr. Bond you are not careful in your maping and missed the very first explosion on the map between the colonies and borg.
There are many agreements/alliances in play already it is clear.
The only patently obvious alliance is that of the empire and crystals. Anyone even casually glancing at the score would readily perceive that it is a tight alliance with ship and resource trades almost every turn, without even attempt to hide it.
It is likewise not a far stretch to assume multilevel lizard crystal co-operation since their turns arrive virtually simultaneously and have done so for oh, the past 13 or so turns, again rather obvious to the trained eye. Their diplomatic communiqués likewise favor similar vocabulary without prompting so it's a fair bet jkovalainen is in deep, deep trouble and the fascist not so far behind on the deep trouble list. 
The spider claims he has a 4th partner? We do not see this 4 races vs. 4 races that they do. 
The only real dose of medicine for the cross-cluster crystal flu is a good dose of fire, people know this.
2642 days, 11 hours, 4 minutes ago
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bondservant
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HeHeHe.  You are beautiful DM!  Awesome. Masterful.  I love it!  You are not only skilled in the game, but you are humorous and fun to be in the same galaxy. 

This should be lots of fun, even if it does not fare as well as I would hope.  The many people that bet on the Borg at the beginning of the game are feeling pretty good right now.  Especially now that they know where you are growing and that most Commanders are not able to do much about it because they have their own issues.  They are with you - already giving you a standing O!  As well they should.  Once it is all over, other Borg Champion wannabes will be pouring over your turns to figure out how you were able to get such a dominating start.

Of course, the best way to try to garner the attention off of one self, is to try to throw it on someone else.  So I admire your attempt in your last post to throw it on me.  But rather than respond to each of your points (my favorite being the claim that in a Allies=0 galaxy I have four allies - classic Borg paranoia), which I could do quite convincingly, I will just point to the Scoreboard and let it shine on whomever it should. 

As veterans know, there is a reason that most galaxies focus on eliminating the Borg before they can establish themselves.  Too bad that it appears that I may be the lone voice for not agreeing to let you assimilate planets 200-300 ly closer to me than you.

Roleplay response coming in the near future, but for now .. may the odds be EVER in your favor!

.
.
... p.s. you always do such cool pics jkovalainen!
2641 days, 14 hours, 7 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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*** Klingon foreign intelligence headquarter ***

Thank god you'e back again, sir. The armed forces are asking urgently for instructions. Your sudden departure and your long absence already provided for unrest.

You question my behavior, lieutenant?

Ah ... no, of course not. I would never dare.

Very well. My mission was of superordinate urgency.

More urgent than the crucial phase of this battle? That is…

Lieutenant!

I ask for forgiveness, sir. But it seems that unexpected and enormous forces have turned against us. Our fleet needs new orders.

What happened?

Sir, the Evil Empire uses a completely new kind of space mines. It is nearly impossible to evade to these mines. And that is not yet the worst. These mines drain energy - even from our cloaked ships! There's no protection against this effect.

Stop the lamentation! Mines can be swept. On my instruction our ships were equipped in the best way. We used each ore occurrence and each factory in order to be prepared in this case. Everything we subordinated to this attack! Everything! The plan is continued!

Sir, there's something else …

What more, Lieutenant? Wasn't I clear enough?

Sir, yes, of course, sir. But it is ... I hardly dare to say ... an enormous ion storm emerged out of nothing. It covers our entire deployment zone. It drifts slowly to the south but our cloaking devices and space mine scanners cannot be used for the next 5-10 months in the places where they are needed.

What means "out of nothing", lieutenant! You want to fool me into believing that after our months-long preparations an ion storm emerged without any preliminary warning in the very moment and place where it thwarts all our plans ? Bring me the director of weather control! Bring me this failure!

That is impossible, sir. When the storm became suddenly visible on our screens, Torgh has chosen the honorable way. We examined all recordings immidiately. Indeed there were no signs for this storm approaching.

That is impossible! Except…

Sir?

I am not allowed to tell you. This information is intended only for the supreme commander of a people.

Sir, I am for years your closest adviser. You can trust me in every sense.

Now … no choice remains for me. If my assumption is correct, the survival of the entire Klingon nation is threatened. Lieutenant, I began my recent journey on higher instruction.

On HIGHER instruction? Sir…

Listen! Some time ago I received a message from IT.

IT! You had contact with IT? For thousands of years our people didn't have contact with the greatest power!

It was not a direct contact. I was requested to visit a certain place. Somehow I felt that  not only I had received this invitation but the supreme commanders of all known peoples. I was told to come alone. I departed immidiatly. When I approached the target coordinates the navigational instruments suddenly failed. The usual control methods supplied unpredictable results. By trying out all techniques I know I finally managed to reach my destination. I recognized that my suspicion was correct. Numerous ships of other rulers already had arrived.

What did you find? You saw the face of IT? What did IT requested of you, of our people?

Calm down, lieutenant. I received an offer, the technology for the building of an unbelievable ship. It is called Deth Specula Stealth and has the ability of recloak intercept. And that was only part of the offer ...

This ship makes our fleet invincible. We must begin production immediatly!

Not so fast, lieutenant. The offer had a price… the fame and the honor of our people! In order to receive this ship technology I should irretrievably extinguish the memory of the glorious victories of our ancestors.

Sir, you did not ...!

My ship was the first which left this place.

Sir, the Klingon people can be proud of it's ruler.

This will be for the future to show, lieutenant. Not each people has the pride of the Klingons. Despite of my quick departure I tried to collect as much information as possible. Apparently the individual peoples received different offers. I am sure that the offers to some other races included space mine and ion storm technology. I could not get to know more details however.

Sir, do you want to tell me that our opponent could now not only have the new mine technology but also control of ion storms. Sir, this would be… what could we do?

I have no answer for you, lieutenant. At least ... not yet. But one is certain. We will show ourselves worthy to our ancestors, lieutenant. Better dead than imprisoned!

Better dead than imprisoned!

Tell me about the progress with the jettison weapon later. I have to think now.  Discharged.
2640 days, 15 hours, 12 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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Don't miss out to take a closer look at my turn 17 after the game ended.

*** LUCKIEST *** MOVE *** EVER ***

 (with a little help from my foes)


2639 days, 13 hours, 26 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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Lizards -1 starbase, no ship explosions. Crystals +1 starbase. Empire probes and Eroses spotted deep in Lizard space. Lizard and Crystal PL21 Probes flying all over the place.

At turn 17.

Sounds fishy to me!
2639 days, 13 hours, 8 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
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Humm, this does sound interesting.  I have never owned a probe in this game yet.  But then again, I guess I should believe anything the birds says right?  Nothing like a little misinformation to spread after you get a Deth Spec destoyed.  Great shooting Tex.  Do Birds wear glasses?  Maybe they should try.  

Sure, build up the sense you are being ganged up on even when you have Resolutes in my area destroying my freighters.  Meanwhile taking the players site off of the other threats in the galaxy.  Yu may notice, I have one of the fewest planet counts in the game.  Meanwhile, doesn't seem like I am venturing too far into other players areas.  Who has the highest planet count?   Who has LARGE ships in other players areas?  I think you just need to look at the Data before you talk about the player on the bottom being the threat right ;-)  

-=The DragonDejhi=- of the little lizards
2639 days, 3 hours, 13 minutes ago
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mip40
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Me, unworthy Midshipman Mip am honoured to occasionally being offered a backseat at the Klingon high council, allowed to listen to their tales of heroic battles and unmerited defeats.
Even though the whole clan of Mork, who is told to be raised up by Lizards, was quite enthusiastic in the last meeting of the high council as their DevwI' fought a heroic battle against all odds and is now happy to meet his ancestors with proud, knowing alot more songs will be sung and tales will be told in memory of his deeds - even though this proud people are still celebrating, to me as an outstanding spectator i am surprised that their optimism is still unbroken, facing both the anger of the gods of nature and also neighbours who prefer to live as subordinates, donating battleships every month to a diplomatic octopus which spreads its tentacles to so many sections of this cluster. The big question to me is, what will happen to this race when their last ship is donated to the octopus, when the last starbase is given away, will they still be mentioned in the tales of big wars that were fought or will they just have vanished, being known as the race which has voluntarily dissolved itself?
I am not worthy to speak out at this board of nobleman, however some questions just have to be asked, not knowing if the Klingons will decapitate me instantly as i raised my voice unasked.
If i survive i will gladly continue to listen to all the entertaining sideinformation about what is going on in your universe, hopefully posted at this board also in the future.
2636 days, 19 hours, 15 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
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In completely un-related news I have just recently been selected to playtest the 5th edition D&D rules.
After what I consider the catastrophic failure of 4th edition D&D I feel it is my solemn duty to give as much feedback as I can so that an old game near and dear to the hearts of many a geek is given a thorough accounting (and with any luck a better direction than tabletop wow but we'll see).
When and how I will ever find time for this is a mystery given the breakneck pace of my insane life.

Back in character:

YOU MERELY TICKLE THE DRAGON MR.BOND.
YOU ARE CRISPY AND TASTE GOOD WITH KETCHUP. 


Wrong character... wrong setting...

CHOOSE YOUR NEXT WITTICISM CAREFULLY MR.BOND, IT MAY BE YOUR LAST.
THE PURPOSE OF OUR TWO PREVIOUS ENCOUNTERS IS NOW VERY CLEAR TO ME, WE DON'T INTEND TO BE DISTRACTED BY ANOTHER.
NO, MR.BOND, WE EXPECT YOU TO DIE.
THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN TALK TO US ABOUT THAT WE DON'T ALREADY KNOW.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TmeBd9338

Hold on... Hold on... I'll get it right... resistance is... something about resistance right? 
2629 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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Emork: Can you confirm that you are dropping clans on my planets? (It is no big secret).
I am not getting the messages in my message box - I think this is a bug. The planets are just going dark. Anyone else getting clan-dropped without a corresponding ground combat message?
2629 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes ago
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joshua
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DM. I will message you with what happened. Does not appear to be a bug.
2629 days, 19 hours, 24 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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Joshua, I think the information that it isn't a bug is sufficient.

Of course we happiliy explain our dear newbies what has happened - after the game.
2629 days, 16 hours, 57 minutes ago
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emork the lizard king
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Hey mighty Borg leader, just in case you haven't assimilated a funny guy yet: this was a joke.

Of course you can't know about our progress with the new jettison weapon. Jettisoned grounds troops are superior to landed ones. They attack with lightning speed. Your drones had no time to send home what happens. Well, we wait for a message from our own troops also. The weapon is still beta ...
2629 days, 16 hours, 40 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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This may not be the best forum for it but you should get a message for pillage/RGA even if all clans are killed off - possible I am truly wrong in this respect, wouldn't be the first time. The game started off a wee bit buggy with diffuse ion storms and so I assumed a bug.
The collective actually haven't assimilated a funny guy who posts in shock pink yet, we're confident the experience will be hilarious and mildly indecent.
I do humbly request that my planets relay appropriate messages if this is indeed a bug... 
2629 days, 6 hours, 40 minutes ago
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seveiht
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if pillage/rga destroys a planet on arrival the fascists/rebels do not get a message about who was living there.
2627 days, 19 hours, 13 minutes ago
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turssi
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As Emork explained above, you don't get a message when both players beam down clans simultaneaously to an unowned planet.

In space no-one can your you scream...
2626 days, 20 hours, 28 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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THE BORG HAVE DETECTED THE PRESENCE OF THE "SHIP LIMIT".
SHIP LIMIT WILL BE ASSIMILATED.
NUMERIC BARRIERS ARE IRRELEVANT.

Well met to all commanders in Taurus. You've exceeded my own expectation for this game in terms of raw production capability of your fleets. We now collectively hold the title for being a full turn faster than those scorpius war upstarts. High level VGAp here. Good show!

DM


2623 days, 13 hours, 10 minutes ago
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emork the lizard king
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*** Klingon foreign intelligence headquarter ***

Sir, I have urgent news!

What is it?

Our people was honoured in the most possible way, Sir.

What happened?

It became clear that Klingons are the most feared race in the whole Nuniverse, Sir!

How that?

You know, it is no secret to our neighbours that our entire fleet is struggling hard on it's way to the web-protected center of the Evil Empire. Therefore we were a little bit worried about the Borg cubes near our southlands and their lamenting about futileness and so on. Now we know for sure that they don't dare to attack ...

Excellent!

... alone.

What do you mean?

Sir, you remember the first generation Coldpain we gave our department's cartakers for their annual works outing? They wanted to make a trip to our southern border. O yeah, the people in the south know how to party.

Lieutenant, if this story doesn't get more interesting immidiatly you may join them next year!

I'm very sorry, Sir, I wandered off the point. We recieved a distress call from that ship. It was robbed.

What the hell! Robbed? In this area ... How can that be?

Sir, our strategic simulations showed a 90% result that Pirates were chunneled in.

But that would mean that ... Pirates and Borg?

It seems so, Sir.

And we made them reveal this secret alliance by sending our caretakes against them? Well, that's for sure our second best move after the sucessful Kobayashi Maru manoveur at planet Caphatess some months ago.

Do you have special orders for our border security, Sir?

There's no need to be worried, Lieutenant. I don't think they'll really attack unless they find a third race to assist. But showing some more presence wouldn't harm. My grandson asked me to support his class' summer camp. Give them our training Ill Wind. They shall rescue the caretakers and maybe shoot down the one or other MBR on their way.

That's a brilliant idea, Sir, as always.   
2623 days, 12 hours, 34 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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THE BORG DOES NOT STUPIDLY CRAWL A FIRECLOUD ACROSS THE GREAT VOID TO SAVE OUR NACENT COLONIES FROM PILLAGE IF GRAVITONIC TECHNOLOGY WERE AVAILABLE.
THE DISTANCES AND TIMINGS BETWEEN OUR CUBE CHUNNEL AND YOUR ROB DO NOT REMOTELY MATCH.
A COLDPAIN ROB IS FAILURE TO WIPE ASS CORRECTLY.
KLINGON DIPLOMATIC "INTELLIGENCE" IS AN OXYMORON.
2623 days, 11 hours, 59 minutes ago
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emork the lizard king
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Borg meant pleonasm? As Borg trickiness is.
2623 days, 11 hours, 5 minutes ago
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capnkill
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Hey looks like the Borg did assimilate a comedian, finally! :)


2622 days, 13 hours, 44 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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2619 days, 17 hours, 30 minutes ago
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othrym
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Ok ... back from vacation and nothing too bad has happened ...

((somewhere far far away))

Chieftrader Othrym was holding a small glassy object against the light of a spotlight when the Chief Information Officer enters the room.
The new kind dice for the casino ships will be a great success. The dice have now 7 sides - the usual 1 to 6 and a zero. He has adopted the idea from a game on a distant planet of the Federation. Whenever a die shows the zero the win goes to the house.
The CIO harrumphs to get the attention of the Chieftrader.

"Oh Tamara, nice to see you. Quite recently Rasmus was here and told me that now also the Klingons has started to do experiments with jettison stuff. Can you confirm this?"

"No sorry, the Chief of R&D  is not right. That is only a rumor which has his origin in another rumor. The first rumor was about a new planetkiller weapon the empire is working on, which needs a lot of neutronium. Then a Klingon captain has started the rumor that the Klingons - who are neighbors of the Empire - also work on such a weapon and that their approach is to jettison a great amount of fuel in the open space and to ignite the process by a glory decives triggered chain shockwave. You can imagine this like a ..."

"Tamara, please only the important details. So what has really happened?"

"Well! The Klingon Captains of a Coldwing and a small Transporter had lost the fuel."

"Lost?"

"Yeah! In a game with a captain of one of our ships - the Brothers in Minds"

"Oh, that kind of loss. And then ..."

"... yes sir, then the Klingon captains start the second rumor about the new weapon. But the rumor did not help the Klingon Captains for a long time. The Lizard King knows that his scientists are not working on such a weapon and one of his high officers summoned the captains for a personal report. They told him that they have started the rumor only because of national security and that they have hoped for a fast personal report to the King. In reality - the Captains told the intimate of the King - the fuel should have been robbed by a privateer ship that has chunneled in by the borg."

"We did have a BH2 again?"

"BH2, sir?"

"Borgic Happy Hour. You know when one of our ships has flown cloaked to a planet hoping to colonize it ... and then we get the next message from some hundred lightyears away because the ships has been sucked into one of this borg selfmade wormholes."

"No sir, not a BH2. The ship has crossed the void with his own engines to trade with the delta quadrant. But now the Lizard King spreads the rumor of a cooperation between us and the borg."

"By the way ... have our scientists finally decryted the strange icon that the borg send us again and again?"

"No sir."

"Stange Cluster. The Borg send us that icon, the Bird Men pictures, the Fed and Robots firework. There is a complete different kind of communication in this part of the universe."

"Indead sir. And until we know whether that rumor is good or not good for us we should stop Operation #Nur geBORGt#."

[[German wordplan: "geborgt" is a declension of "borgen" which means "to borrow", so "Nur geborgt" means "Only borrowed"]]

"Aye, I agree. By the way. We should nevertheless reward our captain. Well, a low priced but grand reward. ... Ok! ... Please send the captains my best wishes and arrow him to rename his ships to his own name. But the color he has to organize himself. By the way, what is the name of the captain?"

"Quark"

"Oh, i remember, that small alian with the large ears. Well ok, then the ships new name should be #Quark's#. Go ahead, and send the messages."

While the CIO leaves the room, Othrym`s gaze return to the sparkling glassy die. A good idea... a really good idea.

2619 days, 17 hours, 7 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
... spy message ... copy of the icon that the borg send to the traders ...

2619 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Greetings to all,
I not a great writer but I'll try to entertain you a little bit :)
And I apologize in advance for any mistakes in the translation...
--------------------------------------------------------
Cylon. The Beginning.

Robotic headquarter was established on the dark side of the Volus-I, a small satellite of the red giant on the edge of the Echo Cluster. Commodore Skiv stood still near the border of the data center external platform. As motionlessly as the stars in the sky, compact groups of which was pretty promising. First bioscan showed that this was true. Plenty of minerals and hostpitable aborigines were found in a short time.

After a while sensitive Commodore eyes registered a movement among the stars. This was a tiny dot, a scout returning from the action area. Full volume of intelligence from it will be uploaded to the central network right after the docking. But the very important information Skiv already knows. Transmission of the priority data began immediately when the probe finished his hyperjump.

- "Commodore! Preprocessing complete!", annonce one of the new aides.

They are working so quickly, thought Skiv. Next generation...

- "What is shown the preliminary analysis of the situation?"

- "It seems that our active operations agains organics provoked certain interest from the third parties. From the ships signatures we know this is a Collective. His intentions are unclear. We recommend to prepare for the worst."

The cyborgs. Fake robots, half boilogical creatures. Nothings good.

After a short pause whilst the algorithms for deciding were completed, commodore say:

- "I order the active fleets to speed up the capture of the federation territory. Send reinforcement to the battle area. What are the long-term predictions?"

- "There is too much hostility in the cluster. Organic carbon-based beings as well as a silicon-based are finding out a relationship between themselves. They are blinded with the minor skirmishes and doesn't see the main threat. They will understand all only after assimilation. Some of the species tricked by the Collective and nourish false hopes to control it. According to our computations probability of their success tends to zero."

- "We must try to influence events. Prepare and send information to the races neutral to us. Be sure they will be able to read the package..."

- "Commodore! Urgent message! One of the our colonies in the rear was attacked. The colony supervisor not contacted. We receiving only one signature..."

- "Borg. Send the suppression group immediately!"

Commodore turned and quickly walked toward the lifts to the undeground floor. The initial phase was over. Time to act. 
2619 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Skiv talks?! Your english is actually very good in translation, have no shame.
When this is all said and done I want to look at your starting cluster the most carefully Skiv. To date I haven't seen anything robotic moving LESS than warp 9. All the waves of golem, automa, instrumentality have transwarps. Best overall position on the map, best neighbors and very likely best natives/minerals.

The amusing thing about comedians (and there are quite a few in this game for the viewer's at home), is that they all behave the same way. Rather than discuss borders with the borg, talk about trade or cooperation they merely waltz in and trample nacent borg worlds as though the borg are a very distant threat and it's merely "par for course".
This I've never really understood, since in point of fact the borg are the only race that can, and do, teleport. So when the borg do show up sooner than turn 100+ these same comedians go: "OMG! OMG!! It's the borg! THEY HAVE CUBES!"
I am invariably left with the question: "What the hell did you think was going to happen?!?"
2619 days, 6 hours, 45 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
;-)
  Exactly the point.  You put it very well.  The Borg is the ONLY race that can teleport and when they choose, they will show up at your area with cubes to assimilate all.  I couldn't say it better then you did...   Rule of thumb: First probes cover the galaxy, then cubes... Nothing in between.  I guess you would rather they leave the wormholes open with cookies waiting for you?  ;-)
2619 days, 5 hours, 7 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well, you contort the words as lizards oft do. The borg "show up in your area" is a lot harder done than said. There's a very complex game of positioning, protecting your fragile fireclouds and making sure slimy cloakers don't hitch a ride or intercept. 
I don't envy your backstabbing game dragondejhi, just not my style, but I'm confident it's much easier to put a knife in the back when it's turned. Those are quite heavily armed LCC for border patrol (make sure you hit the CPU).

DM
2617 days, 20 hours, 45 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well then. "You should know that".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tch1CuMV9M
2609 days, 10 hours, 4 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hail comodores, captain, rear-admirals and admiral of Taurus system!

Worthy opponents, the borg formally request that we soon reduce the schedule of our Taurus war to twice a week at some point in the near future (say turn 35 or so, sooner better than later).
The moves and positioning are getting more delicate and we need more time to plan and fight at our fullest potential lest we be forced to abandon other worthwhile games or endeavors.
We are having trouble keeping up with this pace.

DM
2609 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Klingons agree to slowing down.
2608 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I have no desire to play Taurus for less than 3 times a week. 

Going to 2x a week would increase the length of this game by 50% and since I suspect this game will not end by turn 60 or even by turn 80 like most of my other Nu games, then I have no interest in adding another 6 months to play/finish this game (assuming I won't be "finished" before the game actually ends).

I felt the same way about my Nu Team Game that just finished last week .. on turn 150.  If we would have went to 2x week at turn 30 in that one, then the game would not have ended for another five more months from now.  Yikes!  As it stands now, if this game goes to turn 150, then it will end around April 2013.  If we were to go to 2x week, then it would not end until around September of 2013.  That is just way too long to not play another major Nu game - like another Team Game. I love Team Games, but they take major coordination - so it would be good to have this one over with before starting another Team Game. And I have this gut feeling that Taurus has high potential to not be "decided" until turn 200 or beyond -- that would mean not finishing until the year 2014.

So for those of you that have not already, please lower your commitments elsewhere so we can all have fun with this one.  And let's end the game before the next millennium!

Bond
2608 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Klingons also agree to not slowing down.
2608 days, 18 hours, 45 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Just my 2 cent:

3 turns a week is ok, but I have also played games, where i needed even at turn 50 4+hours which has a lot of impact on real life. Nevertheless I have managed it in the past - so I will manage it in the future (i hope) . But what I do not want is the feeling, that I maybe sometime in the future be in a good standing only because the opponents do not have the time to make good moves ...

But there are 2 more aguments:
The first championship has also slowed down to 2 turns a week. If we do not slow down, we can outdistance them. So it can be, that we end this game at date X and the first game then ends 3 weeks later. Then our emperor will only have a regency of 3 weeks (Joshua stated this before). Nevertheless a slowing would imply that in the future not every half year a championship should start as there then would be always more championship parallel.

Last but not least a slowed game means more flexibility for all players. If there is a time in real life, where you need some extra time, you will less propable miss an important move (which leads back to my first argument). If you want more action, you can start another game ... but if there is something unexpected in real life, you have the chance to drop from the not so important games and still continue with the more important one.

So all together I would say: +1 to slow down to 2 turns a week, if someone asked for it.
But there should be no slow down below that 2 turns. With only one turn a week this game would really end never, as you would ask yourself ever week what strange thoughts you have had the week before 8P

Thus I would say +1 to DM's request.
2608 days, 16 hours, 35 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I feel that soon all of my carriers will drawn in the webs and I will have a lot of spare time to make turn every day and even move frequently :)

I don't mind to have a two turns schedule.
2608 days, 16 hours, 13 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
sooo u still have carriers left? ;)

the feds are fine with either way but we prefer to have 3 turns/week.
2608 days, 16 hours, 3 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Birds would be less angry with 2 turns per week. So +1 for that option.
2608 days, 1 hours, 24 minutes ago
View sants's profile
sants
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi all,

The little empire prefers 3 turns/week, we want to finish this nightmare as soon as posible.
2607 days, 21 hours, 13 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
It looks like an almost even split, thanks for your replies.
I will try and relieve pressure elsewhere but I may have to politely ask again.   

Bond I was confident from webs in 4 corners of the map that you are fact playing a team game, so maybe you could reconsider?
Sants I saved you by declaring war on Emork - you never answered: why?

2606 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I have seen a recent surge of bugs in the game. This happened about the time the new features such as tax information and the little robot helper appeared on the scene. There is a game breaking bug right now that must be addressed or the very structure of the planets game is threatened.  

Most serious: ability to intercept ships that have attacked planets - I should see "nothing". I both see the attacking ship and whatever else it brought along. This is in Taurus and cheeseball my other game. Very very important that this get fixed soon.

For a moment I'll use the thread as my soapbox for other less serious but nonethless very buggy bugs:
Tow chunnel bug: Set a chunnel. Switch to another ship to tow the chunneling firecloud - interface jams. Cannot expand tabs, fuel calculation disappears, target/initiator firecloud image grows randomly to 10x size, images of other ships appear over tabs. Any or all symptoms can appear, no rhyme or reason.

Firefox 13.0. I'll post pictures soon.

2605 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I agree that the ability to intercept ships that have attacked planets is not a good Bug at all; I noticed this too recently in my games.

On a related bug note, I might mention that another bug has never been fixed that hurts the Crystal most  --  whenever I tow-capture a ship and tow the captured-ship to a planet, the enemy can see what is at the planet as if they had a ship there.  Come to think of it, not sure if they can intercept my ships there too - but if so then that would not be good either.  They probably can?  (if they get through my webmines)

Also, another serious bug that was fixed but now I think is back and it is happening again -- the Crystal Race does not get a message when a ship runs out of fuel.  That is information that I would like to have again :).  This is for the first turn it runs out of fuel.  I get the "out of fuel and energy" message the second turn and after.  It was a quick bug fix the first time this happened, so hopefully it can be fixed quickly again.
2604 days, 18 hours, 22 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
FYI, the bug for being able to see (and intercept) ships which just attacked a planet is fixed. That was introduced when the weapon information scan from combat was added. Next host run it should work correctly.
2604 days, 16 hours, 21 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Much appreciated Joshua, to be clear: ships that have attacked planets this turn will not be intercept-targets or only after the next hostrun?

2601 days, 22 hours, 26 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
*** Nu-leaks twitters ***

On invitation of the Klingons there is a Borg-Crystal-conference at Kobol planet. The Evil Empire, the Pirates, the Federation and the Robots are all in short distance and may also drop by. We'll keep you informed if this is the long expected tea party or something completely different.
2601 days, 13 hours, 8 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
out of curiosity emork: what do you gain by joining the evil brotherhood?
2601 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Loses less sleep at night. 
Maybe.
2601 days, 3 hours, 46 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Klingons have not joined the brotherhood. We were forced by someone to look for all measures of defense and we got this one for free. Klingons are very thankful.
Someone was warned that his announced actions will have consequences but someone thought this development fits his plans. That's beyond the capacity of Klingon strategic computing grids but someone has the bigger nexus (and font).
2601 days, 3 hours, 41 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Btw, Jkovlalainen, let me take the opportunity to express Klingon respect for your strong resistance in a terrible environment. I'm sure even your enemies share this opinion.
2600 days, 21 hours, 5 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
You have joined the evil brotherhood Emork, there are webs covering your planets and you've given them multiple ships and vice-versa as well as bases. Although we note that bondservant is always the better beneficiary of these trades since his military score is grossly inflated, his minions ask for little in return in seems. 
Our bigger nexus (and font) indicate while an excellent player you have a lot of difficulty actually killing races off and backed out once again in Taurus. You will change coat on a dime - even when in a relative position of strength such as the cheeseball system and your failed campaign against joe.
In a similar vein you readily compliment Jkovalainen pincered between lizards, crystals and death stars simultaneously offering them pop-ships, removing what dwindling hope he had.
You are well known to us. 
2600 days, 19 hours, 48 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
DM, I admire your great playing skill and how you manage to play a time-consuming race in two high-level games with only few errors. But when you relate to other games in this forum you're adressing me as a player and not as the Klingon of Taurus. Taking back your harsh words in a personal message doesn't make this acceptable.

So for the records: This is turn 34 of the Taurus war.
Everyone who gives a cent on DM's statements now should use the time machine after the game to verify them. It may also be very intersting to follow the Borg-Klingon negotiatios from turn 17 to turn 25 if you want to see a nice example how being too greedy can horribly backfire. It's a risk you can take but don't cry if you fail.

 Now let's go on with the game ;)

C U in space, Emork
2600 days, 19 hours, 27 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
@ joshua,
In cheeseball Emork just stole a falcon and i can still see it over a planet.
2600 days, 19 hours, 19 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
All the Borg is doing Emork can be summed up as:  Textbook Wartime Propaganda.  Yes, comments spanning to another galaxy is unusual.  And might I add, presenting a deceptive caricature of me out of nowhere was surprising.  But as for calling the enemy underhanded and evil, well as the textbook says:

"Wartime propaganda attempts to make people adapt their priorities and moral standards to accommodate their own needs during war.  The integration of war propaganda into the texture of existing mass media and popular culture attempts to influence mobilization of society and troops against an enemy--real or imagined.  Propagandists write to convey the sense that they are still in control, even if a new enemy of the people has emerged that will make the war much more difficult to win than initially expected.  In order to best respond to a new enemy and get all others on your side with minimal resistance and maximum support, often the quickest way propagandists do so is by creating a mass atmosphere that the enemy is evil and beyond attempts for negotiation."

So why no mention from the Borg that the player in the Taurus galaxy with the most planets (Borg) seem to be getting 162 ly rides from the player with the second-most planets (Pirates).  I even see this attempting to happen in my own small empire.  No mention at all as "evil" of the numerous Borg-Pirate collusion efforts against others .. happening it seems somewhere in the galaxy every turn.

Who is the true "evil" one might ask, expanding far beyond their own empire and then complaining when others do not allow it to happen without a fight?  An interested observer can look at what has been written so far on the forum and decide for oneself.  Although according to another thread - being evil is not necessarily bad.  And writing a sliver of truth is simply the basic model of wartime propoganda.  So yes, as you say, let the games continue....
2600 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
You misunderstand the borg once again, our pointing out these facts is merely showmanship, grandstanding and for the general amusement of the peanut gallery - that we poke fun at you for what you have done, not what you have said.
Actions speak much louder than words and it's your actions that are questioned by a 3rd party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM_Hlx_yZRE

( If it bothers you just tell me in private and I'll lay off, as I said, no hard feelings. )

2600 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
@Seveiht: This may be help bug analysis. Do you also see the other ships orbiting the planet?
2600 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes ago
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seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I Vote that the Soap Opera award go to the Taurus War Championship Match.
2600 days, 19 hours, 8 minutes ago
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seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
@ emork, I do not see other ships on the planet.  Just the falcon.
2600 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ah yes Seveiht, there is indeed soap opera issues at work here huh? ;-)  It starts with the crying of the Birds who accuse others for working together.  I myself have not worked with the Fascists this game.  However, with a name like the Lizard King, he can't be that bad of a chap huh?  Meanwhile, there are Birds up inn the Robot area, there are Pirate ships deep in Bird areas and there were Borg planets in Birds area.  Humm, even the Birds says he is working with someone and has friends.  Yep, I think the Birds cry foul while he plays the game he accuses others of (LOL).  
  Meanwhile the Borg sings... "Why is everyone always picking on me :-("  I personally have not attacked any Borg ships or taken any Borg planets in Borg area.  So not sure why he is sobbing so much.  Yes, I did take 4 Borg planets.  Oh yea, did I mention they were in my territory FAR away from his area?  Slaps myself on the head..... I guess I understand if he assumes the whole galaxy is his and colonizing any planet besides my home world is an act of war......
  In the end, the Boob and Birds are playing propaganda.  As is expected and respected.  They are both great players worthy of praise.  I like them....... especially with gravy.....  They negotiate like the Bots who states... I want peace as long as I get everything and you let me have all the planets I took  ;-)  

-=The DragonDejhi=-
2600 days, 18 hours, 54 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oops, just reread... that should say Borg... ;-)
2600 days, 18 hours, 38 minutes ago
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ronnle robot
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
A Freudian slip? Borgs... Boobs.... easily confused :-) You must be using an iPhone with Auto-Correct to post these comments, right?
2600 days, 18 hours, 30 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Are we going to talk about 7 of 9 now?
2600 days, 3 hours, 22 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
7 of 9 is so ugly. the borg may keep her. the federation does not want to have her back,
2599 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Dejhi, is this how DM sounds to you?


2599 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Woot ... thought I will be back in time to make my turn ... but so much to read in the forum ... Hm ... Veldan`s Youtube message is censored by the geman GEMA. Wonderful ... media law in order to censor something.

But Emork is right ... if one relates to other games in this forum he is adressing the player not the "in game character". And on the other hand if there are broadcasted facts in this forum, it may be betrayal of secrets. And if someone is broadcasting lies they may return to himself, because lies may force one to change his mind and let the lies become truth.

Well .. but now I have to hurry to do my turn ... cu in space ...
2599 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
We are the borg
We do not sing anything
This cluster will not fall to the evil brotherhood
You are not trustworthy
You merely use your allies, break agreements and offer little to nothing in return beyond delay
You conspire against them at this moment
Your attempts to delay us will not be successful, number 7
Your biological and technological distinctiveness will adapt to service us
You will be assimilated




2598 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Happy Canada day guys!
Our national holiday here. I am sadly on the job so no fireworks for me. I am overworked.  

Joshua, zelrik, seveiht and the rest of you go have a blast.
2595 days, 9 hours, 6 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hummm, nice copy and paste Mr. "pieces and parts".  

  I can copy and paste things together like you as well.  That takes no talent.  It really doesn't take tactics and strategy.  But you talk a good talk.  Let's see.....  You say races shouldn't work together right.... Yet, the Borg is the biggest race in the game right now.  They go everywhere and take over everyone's planets.....  Why is this?  
   Then I look around and I see the the Borg has Birdmen SB's deep in his territory.  Interesting.  Was he just visiting when he took over Oakhurst?  You work with the Pirates and he helps you take over planets. Is that as bad as what you state?  And the Feds are retrofitting your ships.....
  Now, who is the evil one.  No one buys your complaining.  You destroy worlds and take over places and I have never even attacked you except deep in my territory.  Why the crying?  Because others may work together in defense?  Since you have an alliance of the Borg, the Pirates, the Birdmen and the Feds........  I think you are a VERY big pot calling a very small kettle Black !!!

  So, quit trying to take everyone attention away from the fact that you have a huge alliance that is working together. I have no problem with this.  You don't see me stomping my feet and threatening to throw my "Curling" broom on the ground and go home ;-)  Grab a tissue (or a beer) and go cry to someone who doesn't know you are working with 4 different races.  In the end, I am smaller then you, you are the aggressive one attacking others.  I have not attacked you, the Pirates or the Feds of your alliance.  So why so blue towards me panda bear?  
  Alright, complain away...  say I lie... get your allies to state I lie.. maybe if all get together as a team to proclaim you are not working together that will work (lol)... say others are out to get you...  Say others are working together or developing some secret big weapon...

But pieces are pieces and there are no good parts of a whining Borg.  But mostly, nothing good can come from a hypocritical Borg...  

-=The DragonDejhi=- of the little Lizard Alliance... can you imagine how scared and fearful he would be if I was as big as him.  Oh Lions and Tigers and Lizards... oh my...  Do you need Toto to hug and make you feel safe???
2595 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oh yea.... Happy Independence Day !!!!  No aliens I hope!  And careful with the fireworks.  I am at work today so I do not want to have to come out and put out any fires you have started!

-DD-
2595 days, 8 hours, 24 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Your intent from turn 1 was to have a "team game" with the championship match. A triple alliance visible on turn 7? Now quadruple tight alliance with heavy ship trades? Please. If a super-alliance does form, you've ordered it. "Don't dare impugn me honor, boy." A hypocrite makes border agreements and cancels them on a whim, like you have with the robots - hard to deny the truth.

Furthermore we do not see ourselves whining, where in the thread do we whine? You made this up.
All throughout the thread we are the aggressor.  Our sole complaint is bugs, and there are many.
However what we see is you whining.  "he has the most ships, he has the most planets, he may have allies, wah!"
We should all have pity on how your territory was "violated" by a borg probe some 15 turns ago.
So why don't you quit your fear mongering and baseless allegations as you mercilessly pincer crush the life out of the romulan with ships that are not even your own pathetic race's design, visible to all. No more soap opera, no one's buying it.

2595 days, 6 hours, 0 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

lol, ;-)  Yes, my young Borg cadet. Your rants of injustice are truely justified.  , You are ever the poor victim of other's evil plots.  I bow to your all-knowing wisdom  ;-o   It is a complete statement of your great strategy that you are ahead, yet claim others are out to get you.  Please, by all means, continue with your "the devil made me do it" attitude and stick firmly to the fact that it is others that have "ordered" you to form alliances and then complain that everyone is ganging up on you (rotfl).  Then again, that is if we all forget about your alliances.  It's okay.  We still love you.  By gosh, people like you. 

  Please... queue the Charlie Brown song....  Everyone... sing along with dungeonfaultfinder...

   "Why is everyone always picking on me..."

Louder everyone.  Let's bring it to a Crescendo.  It's hard to hear while the Borg are running the engines on thier Cubes.....  Last verse....

  Why is everyone always picking on Borg?

-=Thge DragonDejhi=- 

I guess the bad guy if it makes him feel better about himself?   ;-)

2593 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Dragon, we started on the wrong foot. There should be more love between the two of us, I could even write a song for you and the evil brotherhood. I think it has already been done however:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38YWB8iX7OY

I have only sporadic internet access right now so no additional chicken until closer to host run.
2593 days, 14 hours, 21 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
;-)  I like it.  Who said the collective didn't have a sense of humor?
2592 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
come on dd, get at least your facts straight on your hopeless propaganda

"Then I look around and I see the the Borg has Birdmen SB's deep in his territory.  Interesting.  Was he just visiting when he took over Oakhurst?"

Birdmen SB deep in Borg territory? How is that Borg territory :D I have colonized that planet since turn 4.
2591 days, 20 hours, 51 minutes ago
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zelrik
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hm, it's past turn 30 now, I think it's getting clear who will likely be the winner.
2591 days, 20 hours, 40 minutes ago
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seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
i'm thinking the privs will try for a coup ;)
2591 days, 20 hours, 38 minutes ago
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seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
repeat post
2591 days, 19 hours, 57 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Seveiht;

  I think many of us have had to change their play style many time over.  I can think of one, two, maybe three players that will not win.  After that, because this is the championship game, it is anyone's game.  From what I see, there is NO clear winner in this game at all.

-DD-
2591 days, 19 hours, 49 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Oops, sorry DoDo birdy;

  Again your wisdom proves mostly correct.  Of course you own Oakhurst, it is in your territory.  It is the fact that you own Arkto:84.  A SB deep in the Borgy territory that makes me wonder why you complain about others doing exactly what you are doing.  As far as I am concerned, that is okay.  But the Borg throws out propaganda about others owning SB's in other players territories, as his Henchman you jump to his defense, yet you two do the same????  Hummm, makes one wonder why you think anyone would listen to your whining.  But then again, I see you are copying good planning, and that's a compliment, so I think you ;-)

-DD-  like you, one of the tiny empires...

2591 days, 19 hours, 18 minutes ago
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seveiht
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DD - I wasn't saying there was a clear winner, I was predicting an action on the part of the privateers.

I also did not predict whether he would succeed :P
2591 days, 19 hours, 13 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yea, I know, I should have addressed that to Zelnik.  Still, it's always fun to throw out predictions.  Get's people thinking, gives you the ability to say "I told you so" and if it's doesn't happen, oh well, things change all the time in this game.  The dynamics have stayed stable in this game a somewhat, but I know they will change constantly.  Every turn there is always a lot of question marks when it comes to this area.  I know I will watch this game long after I am gone.  One reason I stay in this game is to watch all the bantering.... 
-=The DragonDejhi=-... do I even have a chance with my tiny little ships??? ;-D 
2591 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
dd: haha, you can't be serious can you? I'm more than 700 LY away with my closest ship or planet from Arkto (if it's p184 you mean). I suggest you double check your intel and maybe go see the planet yourself. Some words of advice: don't trust your brotherhood's Evil henchman's dark sense too blindly in the future. It seems the force is not with him...

I do appreciate good efforts of propaganda to keep things interesting for the spectators, but to try to deny something as blatantly obvious as your team game approach from turn 1 is just ridiculous to me. 

It seems, no surprise, that I'm going down as the first victim of the alliance led by you brothers, but don't expect me to do so without a fight. What you are doing is completely within the rules and diplomacy obviously plays a crucial part of the game. However, I would have wished for a more level playing field from the beginning in the Emperor game.
2591 days, 18 hours, 10 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I too dislike intensely what you have done with the game dragon, bond and sants and to a lesser degree emork (who merely jumps bandwagon to be fair). In many ways you've ruined the spirit of the championship game and I fully intend it to be to your great detriment. Some people walked in here in good faith that they would pit their mastery of their race against others but it does appear that some people do need 2-4 racial abilities and ship lists all at once to take on even a lone romulan. Upon seeing this one might legitimately ask if individual race mastery is lacking. 

Your "win by any costs" and "abuse our 2nd account aka sants" lacks tact. You believe erroneously that the other players chose to emulate your "style" of building bases in each other's clusters but this is fabrication of your own paranoia.
You've forced many agreements where the parties were not initially interested in doing so. Wherever the game goes from here let's be clear: it was never my intent for it to go this direction and frankly I would have preferred a different style of game.

In short: you ruined it, now you'll suffer.
2591 days, 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
LOL, you guys are funny and have no clue about VGAP huh???  
  First, I actually didn't work with Bond or anyone for the first 10-15 turns.  Nor any other race.  That was a mistake on my part.  I knew I needed to start after seeing how the Borg and the Pirates were working together as well.

  Second.....  have you ever played VGAP before?  I wonder.  Do you even know the Lizards????  They have tiny little ships.  There is NO LIZARD worth their salt that doesn't work with someone.  It's called give and take...  Come on now, have you watched the first Championship game?  They were working with each other the whole game.  If you play VGAP, you have to know how to negotiate trades.  Lizards have HUGE advantages, like all races.  But the one advantage is NOT ships.  One Cube can destroy a lot of Lizard ships, one Golem, One Nova, one Darkwing, one CT, one Gorbie, one Rush, one Virgo and so on and so on.  To survive is learn to trade if you are a lizard.  

  Third, it is truly not the Birds fault he was placed where he was.  Nor is it my fault.  You have done great.  Of course I attacked you.  I do so prematurely.  This was bad advise I followed from a non-player I chatted with.  But attacking again is what Lizards do against one race. Again, I am Lizard and I have small ships so I need to disrupt enemy economy.  You have fought brilliantly, and I did not destroy all your fleets and I have been hurt, but I succeeded in what I wanted, I destroyed much of your economy before the ship limit was hit. Of course, you are still powerful.  It's no different then any other race attacking any other race.  That's the nature of the game.  The Birds are commanded by a quality Master.  

 Luck stated that we share the same cluster.  Bummer.  Luck stated that a race like the Bots have a huge cluster all to himself.  Bummer. That is not his fault either.  That is just luck and one has to deal with the beginning set up of it.  

  So Borgy, you can "dislike intensely" all you wish.  You are doing well (1st place) and you wish to show the light on others.  But picking on someone at the bottom of the ranks as a bad person?  Others will not let the light shine off of you (LOL). It's no different then you colonizing a huge amount of planets in other's clusters.  I cannot allow that, but it does not anger me because you are Borg and that is what you do.  However, just because it is your nature to assimilate all natives does not mean I will encourage it.  Or allow it in my area.  

  Cry away, whine away, intensely dislike if you wish.  But in the end, just play the game ;-) You and your allies are doing fine, I see no reason why you think you need to convince others that you are okay?  If you feel the game ruined because you can't play with veterans... sorry.  There are plenty of training game you can play against no-brain AI's.  In the end, "I still love ya man".  I know you are doing what you think you need to do, and in the end, I am having fun.  So play on.  Destroy me.  Never had that happen before, so I am looking forward to it.  But since you and I have never even fought a battle


2591 days, 17 hours, 41 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
P.S., I can only imagine what will happen when you start to really lose ships and planets.  Whoa man, I can hear the crying now.  "Life is so unfair!!!!",  "You're cheating!!!" , and yes...

   "Everyone is always picking on me !!!"    Buck up Borg.    

-DD-
2591 days, 17 hours, 37 minutes ago
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seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
actually, privateers are in first place...not borg.

2591 days, 17 hours, 28 minutes ago
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seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
All I have to say on this is the following:

IF (and i say IF) people entered the game with the intention of allying and propping each other up with no intention of backstabbing or undermining their allies to attain first place.  Then, in my mind, this is against the spirit of the championship games...although not strictly against the rules.

However, this is near impossible to prove in most cases.  But IF (again if)  there was an early(earlier than turn 5 or so) game collusion between multiple races, it would be very suspect(not proof, but suspect) of an intent to collude to prop up a single player for victory BEFORE the game started.  That is IF there were pre-out of game alliances made and not made in game.

Trading, alliances (albeit temporary), information exchanges etc.. are all fair game.  But to come into the game ahead of the time without the intent to try to get top spot even at the expense of your friends is against the spirit of this particular match.  I don't know IF anyone has done this, and maybe we won't ever know.  But, if I understand what people are saying, that is the line that is being argued about.  Not if there should be diplomacy, but rather if there is collusion to prop up a single player.


2591 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hey, I haven't participated in the Borg-Brotherhood discussion because the tone is quite harsh. I don't like pre-game alliances in general and especially in the championship game. I stated that in in-game-messages. If a single person should play with two accounts here this would be completly illegal. But this is another discussion.

DM, if you continue to indicate that I have done anything against the game ethics in this match then I don't regard his as an in-game-matter anymore. It doesn't help if you're mumbling something in brackets if you make accusations first.
Everyone has noticed that I attacked the EE at first sight and with full devotion. You are the one who knows best (after me) why I had to stop this attack short before victory. So my only explanation for your current accusations is that you are ashamed/angry about your poor strategic decision at this point and want to blame someone else.
Stop this or proof something. I can easily do this by publishing our negotiations. But I don't feel this is needed now because after the game everyone can go back in time and have a look what really happened. I can sleep very well with this to come. Note that this covers only the accusations against me.

So for the last time now: Exclude me from your future complaints about unfairness and all is fine.
I'm looking forward to stay part of your complaints about lost ships and pillaged bases. ;)

Thx, Emork
2591 days, 16 hours, 33 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hummm, from what I read there are two accusations right?  First, one player is playing to prop up another player.  2)  Someone is playing two accounts?

  Okay folks, this is a Championship game.  I see these accusations in newbee games. I do not expect them in Championship games.  It takes honor, strategy and tactics to get to this place.  All of which I would expect EVERY commander here to have in order to play this game.  I do not even know half of you commanders, yet give the full benefit of the doubt that these three traits you have and are playing to win.  It does not make sense that the above two issues would be ANYTHING ANY commander at this phase of the ranks would be doing.  I think we all know this.  Besides what is said, I have enough respect for all of you to know this is true and the opposite is impractical.  It makes us look bad to lurkers.  Of course.... taunting is fine ;-)

  With respect... -=The DragonDejhi=-
2591 days, 16 hours, 26 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
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Emork because you seem keen on exonerating yourself in the public arena: we argued over 5 planets, which I owned and could defend. Rather than make a deal with me over 5 planets you chose to instead jump in bed with a triple alliance and send your entire fleet at my handful of planets. I made a mistake and got hit by a rather ugly bug, and now you're happy as a clam. That's fine. It's a game. We play for fun, and I'm having fun.
Now don't deny that you jumped into a quadruple alliance on the flip of a dime because you can't. You did it. It's obvious. That's how you play. I don't care, it's a game, no hard feelings, win or lose.

DD: I don't think you're being truthful in the least bit - no surprise. There is marginal advantage towards acquiring crystal thunders over madonzilla's and a major advantage in providing the crystal with LCCs and yet you engaged in this trade very early. Likewise you're not engaged in trade with sants. You're simply using him, his military score is a mere 2% while your and bond's (and now Emork's) military is inflated with death-stars and SSD. From a high of 22 warships he's down to 11. That's not trade. Neither do I see this as the hallmark of "experienced" play, for all your pseudo-lecturing your race is more than capable of winning on it's own if you know how to use it.
Let's be clear: you're not within the bounds of what many people expected walking into this game. Again, that's how you play. It's a game, no hard feelings, win or lose.
2591 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes ago
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aanold
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Weird talk here, all kinds of alliances and trades are accepted here, but in the end, one shall remain. Therefore there are no game-long alliances and peace treaties, cause to win, you are going to have to kill the others and leave no one alive. So stop whining when people trade, if you haven't been able to trade yourself, that's your problem.

This is not directed at any single person.
2591 days, 15 hours, 43 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
   Very well said Aanold.  Every trade needs to be calculated on long term effect. That's new and hard. 
   And I am not sure what anyone expected?  It would have been silly to expect anything from someone you never played.  I for one never gave any expectations to anyone.  Did someone presume? 

-DD-
2591 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes ago
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vepr
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
This kind of bullshit is why I am glad circumstances prevented me from joining.   High stakes seem to bring out the worst (and sometimes best) in people.  No matter who is right, this bickering ruins the spirit of the game.  It will all be revealed once the game is done and everyone can review everyone's turns.  I am very much looking forward to that point.    No matter how much each side is insisting they are having fun, I find it doubtful that something which causes that much strife is particularly fun.  Perhaps a better format would have been to allow alliances just like in a real game.  The person with the highest score becomes the emperor, and his ally becomes a count, or a duke, or minister of education, or whatever, fill in any title. Normal games never seem to degenerate into this much bickering.  Personally, seeing how the first two emperor's games are turning out, I doubt I will ever play in one.  I simply don't have the energy for this much diplomacy and bickering. 
2591 days, 15 hours, 9 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ok, DM, I give it up. Post whatever you want. I don't take it serious and hope no other one does. Unfortunatly, Vepr is not completly wrong.

Just for the records: The first contact between Klingons and Lizards was turn 38. They were one voice in the chorus of congratulations for taking out an ugly cube.
Supplement: There was one short contact in turn 29 about letting a Probe pass my area.

2591 days, 14 hours, 42 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Rather than contribute further myself to this intellectual discourse, I will simply point to my guide on Diplomacy in VGA Planets that I wrote nearly two decades ago. Written for all are my thoughts on how I approach multi-player VGAP galaxies (after games start).  No secrets.  It is how I won and became Emperor then and it is how I continue to approach Nu games today, including this one (with exception that there are no game-long allies of course in Taurus).

My only expectations DD were to have fun battling top tier Commanders and try to not make too many noob mistakes (oops failed a couple times on that last one).  But it does appear some wrong assumptions are being made by others.

Just think Vepr, there is still probably over a year of numerous twists and turns - each one likely to upset someone in the galaxy.  Let's hope brighter demeanors surface soon during our .. GAME.
2591 days, 3 hours, 6 minutes ago
View sants's profile
sants
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
hello all,

There are two reasons why I do not usually post in the games where I play, the first is because my level of English is not so good as to express what I want,  and the way I want. The second is that I do not like to hold opinions without knowing what I'm talking about,  and therefore, I do not like to read opinions of people who do not know what they´re talking, so I prefer to stay out of these posts. Reading your last posts, I prefer to stay out.

greetings.
2590 days, 18 hours, 15 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

^^ there is no need to discuss - the lizards will win anyway.

btw dragon: i really fear the crystals by now - they are as bad
as the borg, at least. don't let them survive !!
2590 days, 15 hours, 36 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Having one lone winner in a game will produce a weird balance for sure.

What is there for a player that got a bad start or got attacked early on do? Thanks to the ship limit, it's pretty damn hard for a race, especially a non-ship stealing race or a race without heavy carriers to gain any significant increases in fleet size. Riding to victory as someones ally is not an option. Quitting the game would be an awful thing to do. What's left then other than sulk in the sidelines and waiting to be steamrolled?

A rational actor would attempt to undermine the leading player(s) while co-operating with others of similar strength and picking low hanging fruit from the weakest players. Co-operating with a player of markedly greater or weaker strength doesn't make sense. Assuming all rational players, the game would never end with the alliances shifting when the leading player is kicked down and another player gains too much in strength relatively.

Fortunately, emotion usually prevails over reason, so this game might end after all :)
2589 days, 22 hours, 19 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I look like a total newb. "There's no way he's going to station his rear-guard right there, unarmed, there's no way we're going to sail through that many webs."
I'll set PBX next turn, there's no hurry. And now I have no PBP... what a mess. 
2589 days, 19 hours, 54 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Cube or Merlin? ;) Hey, both are nice ships!


2589 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
lol, yea, I  noticed that too.
2589 days, 19 hours, 46 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yeah yeah no bug, just raw stupidity this time. I lose 20 pbp for what would have been free. 
Who needs a merlin on this map? The settings are ultra-rich minerals with low natives. I've never seen so many minerals, without exaggeration.
2589 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
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dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hummm, didn't notice the huge mineral depots?  Of course, the Lizards never get tired of mining and always wish we had more.  However, the natives are great.  Did you ever think you would get tired of Bov-unity's???  Sure, they taste great, but those hoofed critters are terrible at the Lizard past-time of mining !!!!
stock photo : Amusing nose digging cow

Dig in the ground... NOT YOUR NOSE !!!!
2578 days, 18 hours, 2 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
*** Klingon foreign intelligence headquarter ***

Sir, I have an urgent request that you delay your holiday plans!

Why that, Lieutenant?

A dramatic change happened. Our mid-term strategy needs a fundamental reorientiation. Your mipshipman holiday replacement is very talented but this needs the commander himself.

Stop crying and tell me what happened.

Well, our non aggression pact with the Pirates was broken or maybe it never really existed. Two fleets of MBR-towed Cubes and Fireclouds attacked this turn.

That's all?! Lieutenant, we are prepared for this situation. Our fleet is there and our crews are hungry for blood. We have a few defensive webs and interceptors in position so we have a chance to keep pace even with the fast and chunneling. This battle may be our last but that doesn't matter. Let's enter ship-to-ship combat and destroy as many enemy ships as possible.

I'm very sorry to tell you, Sir, but this won't happen. Our secure border agreement with the Federation was also broken. The enemy fleets came from there. Our own fleet is far away from this area.  

Now that is really disappointing! But I have to admit it is a brilliant move .. by the Borg. I have no clue what their supporters hope to gain. Maybe end all this as fast as possible?

If you don't know, Sir, how should I? Now, can I tell the fleet that new orders will arrive soon?
 
Oh, Lieutenant, you have lot to learn. Here is the order for the fleet. I'm away now.

Are you serious, Sir?!?

Life is short and there are battlefields of honor out there. We had our moments here and obviously Klingons are more feared than ever. And if not - even better for our next encounter.
Don't forget to turn off the lights, Lieutenant. All of them!

 

2578 days, 17 hours, 53 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Adios Amigo,

Too bad some players in this game are no longer playing to win.

You will be missed.
2577 days, 7 hours, 28 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4I_zbi3Sak
 
Emork, although we have had our heated exchanges in and out of game, you're definitely amongst the very best players in the VGAnu community, easily within the top 10, let no one doubt this.
Sadly left with once again it seems with the brotherhood acquiring ships and possibly territory for which they did very little to nothing tactically, but it could be worse.
2575 days, 21 hours, 57 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Uh-oh! Looks like someone got ...
2575 days, 9 hours, 55 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Othrym handing DM the keys to victory on turn 1,



Thanks man, really truly honestly appreciated.  I salute you and your slobbery loyalty.  Perhaps I didn't deserve to be in this game... but you are ridiculous.
2575 days, 8 hours, 5 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
A good move is a good move is a good move, that was crazy amazing good from the looks of it.
I had zip, zero, nothing to do with it.
I am in competition with othrym in this game, make no mistake.
He has towed me exactly 9 times in nearly 50 turns, that's it, that's all, no joke I just counted.
I own zero gravitonics, in fact zero cloaker. He owns zero fireclouds, in fact the only borg probe he owns came from a random attack against the rebel, which he stole and if he owns a cube it's merely a tactical deployment for rob. 

The only people I want to see lose and lose hard are those who colluded in MUCH greater depth than anything I've done and who simply have people "give" them ships for jack all nothing. They deserve exactly what's coming to them, they're not going to get propped up on a pedestal and praised as emperor when handed free lunch whereas I've had to barter, trade and actually make real agreements with other players that don't merely advantage me.

This game is far from won.   
2574 days, 3 hours, 50 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Woot! That is crazy! 3 explosions but 87 new ships or ship transfers.
2574 days, 3 hours, 34 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Guys, it's very late here and I need sleep.
My nearest opponents have both folded and sants just simply isn't going to last.
It's not exactly what I was expecting from a championship game, in fact it's turned out completely differently as I fully expected to die. 
Although the championships are the centre piece of Nu I feel personally that the free-form no-rules and specifically diplomacy do not conform well to a championship game.

Gentlemen I ask you if you were to come to table and do it all over could we have a championship with restricted diplomacy - as in no alliances, no ship trades, no border agreements. War on both fronts, regardless of your neighbour, whether brother, friend or acquaintance?  
2574 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
actually DM, this is what i expected. ( with some reasonable ship trades  ).

i am more than disappointed by how this game went all the way. i had a ship trading and a NAP with one of my neighbours while the other one was attacking merciless. i managed to get another race to pick on my attacker while i had a hard time surviving.
by then it was quite obvious that several people were working together from the very beginning or at least very early on. by "working together" i am talking about giving away free ships like death stars without any ships in return and things like that.
later i found out that there is another 2-3? player "alliance" that was doing the same... so i think that there are/were just a few people in The Taurus War that were/are up to what DM suggested.

i salute to those few people who have chosen to fight for themselves and survived this long. i doubt i ll ever play in this format with a lot of these guys again. diplomacy surely is needed when playing at this level but what several people made out of it is just a damn joke at the costs for others and at the cost of this game.

Frucht
2574 days, 2 hours, 42 minutes ago
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aanold
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The fruchtquake type of playing is the perfectly normal one. If you have any assumptions that people have given away ships for "free" without gaining anything, then put up some names and we will check it out after the game is over? Giving away a ship might not necessarily need to get anything back if you for example get a long NAP in exchange. Why would anyone just dump their ships to another player is beyond me, and that is what is being talked about now, amirite?

Also wtf happened this turn?
2574 days, 0 hours, 4 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well. First of all I would ask all of you to stop for a while the accusation in this forum with the intent of taking influence  ingame. Like Vepr said some days ago "No matter who is right, this bickering ruins the spirit of the game." That was the reason why I stopped to contribute to the forum. But now something has - in my point of view - happened that we really should discuss that game (and future ones) on a factual level. It looks like that there are many frustrated players and that should not be as this is a game.

I think it would be a good idea if any of us players of the game first tell a bit about his ideas at the beginning.

At the beginning of this game I asked myself how I will play this championship game. I knew that I would try to fight in this game until the very end ... even if i have only one MBR left.I hoped that every other player will do the same as one of the greatest problems of VGAplanets is if suddenly one player drops (independent of kill race option or not).

Thus I setup my own rules for this game:
- I want to win!
- Never give someone a really useful privateers ship.
- In a non alliance game not any or only small agreements with races in good standing  will be helpful (because you will have to fight them later)
- In a non alliance game any or even strong agreements with races in bad standing can be valuable (because you will not need to fight them later, but there is always the danger of a betrayal)

(sorry maybe to bad english to express it like i want it)

I often play with much diplomcy (i am longing to play the privateer a bit more aggressive like Vepr but i did not manage 8), but that was much more. By the way: from my point of view a privateer can only survive with good diplomacy.

Thus i started and it worked good. My first neighbor I attacked ... aeh borrowed some ships, with the second neighbor a NAP in order to prevent a two frontier war. And so on.

I also made again a "danger potential" analysis of every race, taking into account who`s style of gameplay with that race I know a bit (like Skiv and DM) and what is dangerous to a privateer (like mines) and what no (like big warships).

Then i realized what other diplomatic deals where going on and what false facts I and maybe also others was blamed for in the forum. But well ok, that blames are also diplomacy.
Then there was the point when it "looks like" some other players has made a stronger alliance, that would be dangerous. Because of this I did more cooperation with some - but always trying keep the balance, to not lose the "control".
That makes the game interesting, enthralling.

What I did forget was the subjective point of view of everyone. It "looks like" to me.

And how does that what I do look to the others?
- If I travel a long distance without help but reach an area some turns after the borg it of cause looks like he has chunneled me.(we all know that there is no need to lie at this point as everyone will be able to check it later)
- If I archieve with a small help, that a war that I did not want at this time, stops for a while because I want that the opponents focus on another topic, i should not wonder if later the one who gets not the help thinks that I gave a 100% help.
- On the other hand if some kind of ships or mines appear at every place in the cluster all others will also believe that there is a 100% help even if it maybe only a 5%.

I think that "looks like" problem has escalated in this game. And that has lead to frustration of some players. Especially first Emork and now Veldan i would say. Emork, Veldan - i am sorry for my part I have participated in your frustation (especially if it hurts you in real live). I have taken this game as a enthralling game - from my point of view I was always fighting for the throne, even if it does not look like in some situations. I invite you to check the game after the end and if you find a situation where you think I have not followed that goal, i will try to explane it.
I was invited from another player to exchange email adresses to exchange maps etc. I did decline this because i want to keep all communication in the game.

After all this game turned toward the table top game Junta (http://www.amazon.com/Junta-Power-intrigue-Money-Revolution/dp/1932867139/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1343294435&sr=8-4&keywords=JUNTA). During my study it was denounced as game that can kill friendships. But I believe that in this vpap-game there maybe was no real betrayal but a very complex network of agreements and plans.

And i think that maybe the problem of "no alliance" games. Because there is no change of an open alliance, there are many complex agreements. I now believe that Vepr is right in his post above that "no alliance games" are a problem and there should be found another kind of emperor game. But maybe i am wrong. The first championship game seems to work better? Can any of the players from that game say something to that topic?

Just to say it: i really believe that there maybe a problem with the setup of the emperor game or better non alliance games.
I am not now grumbling because I know that an important of my strategy was the "house of cards" that i can keep with all the starbases a certain control over the normal build queue (sorry DM, i know that you got crazy that you get no builds ;)
And now with Veldans action this turn (as far as i can interprete the score data) he managed to tilt my "house of cards" in a grandiose way. Kudos to you! It remembers me to the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean when Jack Sparrow decided to elect not himself but Elizabeth as leader of the Pirates. Complete unexpected and grandiose.

DM posts:
> Gentlemen I ask you if you were to come to table and do it all over could we have a championship with restricted diplomacy - as in no alliances, no ship trades, no border agreements. War on both fronts, regardless of your neighbour, whether brother, friend or acquaintance?

DM, I do not believe that there is the change to setup a game with restricted diplomacy. There are too much workarounds. Speaking ship names, email, "influence" in the forum, let rob or web drain a ship you want to transfer etc. Even if there would be a code of gameplay and a game option "diplomacy"/"no diplomacy" it would not work as you do not have the control that all keep to the codex. And what if there is the suspicion that one violates the codex. Do you want a planets.nu court?
I remember another game were you got crazy when i started to rob your ships and another player who has to end the game because of real life gives his ships to me. If I remember correct one of your ships "sayed" something about a second account that hurts me hard (in real life). I took it as try to influence me and others in game.

Frucht/DM, i believe that diplomacy is not the problem. From the very beginning a good game bases on three components:
- economy
- fighting
- diplomacy
That are the essential parts of it. I know there are people who say "only war" or maybe also others that say "only economy" 8)  But I also know that for some races/players diplomatic is an important part to have a change to win.

But I agree with both of you that there went something wrong when players leave or go to leave a game with a "bad taste". Especially if it is a championship game.

I also believe that all of us players of this game may be involved to much that we will not find a objective consensus. Thus a + for an open discussion with the community at this place.

Othrym

P.S.:  Sorry for the long post ... 
2573 days, 23 hours, 43 minutes ago
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othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
One additon as I have forgotten to address another player that may also have given up frustrated:

Emork, Veldan and also Bondservant - i am sorry for my part I have participated in your frustation (especially if it hurts you in real live). I have taken this game as a enthralling game - from my point of view I was always fighting for the throne, even if it does not look like in some situations.
2573 days, 21 hours, 50 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Just have seen that Thin Lizzy has given a overview in the first emperors game in the forum. I will try the same for all non players in the second emperors game (of cause very general and only from what i know; only as short version - i do not want to outrun my other post before. I also have not checked whether all this events are really in the correct timeline):

At the beginning Klingon attacked Empire, Robot attacked Federation, Privateer attacked Rebel, Crystal and Lizard (i do not know who first, maybe even the Bird Men) attacked Bird Men. Peace in the realms of Colonies and Borg.

Then many Empire probes crossed the cluster. Have a view on bondservants map which is mostly correct. First Web Mines apeared at the Empire and stopped the attack of the Klingon in the moment when it looks like a win for the Klingon. A borg firecloud apeared at the Klingon part of the center and in the north of Rebel west of Crystal. Some turns later a privateers ship attacked a single planet of the Klingons.

The war between the Robot and the Fed is a hard one. The same with the war between the Crystals/Lizards and the Bird Men as on the Bird Mens two frontiers appear LCC and Webmines. Fed is losing ships and planets. Protective webmines appear around first Klingon Planets. 3 MBR where caught and running out of fuel when the tried to leave the Klingon space. 2 MBR got free but one MBR got towed toward a starbase where a ship destroyed the MBR. Meanwhile a Borgic Cube get also caught by Klingon webmines and run out of fuel. But the Borg managed to also free his Cube.

An attack on two Robot freighters calms the war between Fed and Robot for a while. Also the war between the Privateer and the Rebel seems to calm down. Then a Federal Biocide appears at the Robot border and there are rumors about Borgic Loki and Crystallin Gorbies and SSD under the control of the Lizards.

The build queues come close to a stop as more and more starbases are build and the leaders in the PBP only build small ships. Only the borg has the courage to build a cube with PBP at a base that was part of the normal build queue ;)

With a lot of luck (?) the Borg managed to conquer one of the well webmine protected Homezone planets of the Crystal. The colonies start to march toward the Borg, but suddenly a Annilation under the command of the privateer apears and Colonies and Borg seal a temporary peace agreement. The colonial forces move north and suddenly some fireclouds are moved also in the north from the Federation/Robot border with some gravitonic help toward the Klingon space.

A large flash crossed the cluster when there was an explosion with the spectal signatur of a Gorbie and a Rush at the contested planet between Borg and Crystal.

The Klingons start to hand over the commando codes of their ships to the Lizards, Empire and Crystal. The Klingons leave the Cluster. The Bird men are close to their end when Lizard Thunder and SSD ships from the north and 2 Crystal Gorbies together with some Diamonds from the south approach the Bird Mens homeworld. All covered by a minewar between Resolute layed Bird Men standard mines and LCC layed Webmines.

Suddenly the two remaining (?) Crystal Gorbies and a Diamond got in an unexpected privateer fuel trap at an Bird Men planet. Again 3 suddenly capture ships.

Then in the last turn suddenly 87 ! ship get recycled or handed to another race. Many of them must have been recycled as many new Warships apears at starbases. Some races where surpized by the close to a full cycle of the build queue and did only build some ships. Others seems to have managed to build a ship at every base they have.

Thats the status quo!

Othrym

P.S. By the way: I know/believe that there are more agreements in this non alliance game as I mentioned in this post. Now I have a feeling about the politics and work of the intelligence services during the Cold War and maybe even now.
2573 days, 21 hours, 48 minutes ago
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jm
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
As an outside observer who is not skillful at the game, I thought that everyone seemed to behave normally in game.

Of course there is going to be a pretty fierce alliance against Borg (including ship giving/etc), especially if neither the Lizard nor the Fascist is close enough to destroy them early (which can be seen in less than 10 turns?). Of course the Privs will fear the Borg less than any other race... their fears are the Fascist and Lizard and Fed. And so they are actually one of the most likely 'allies' for the Borg. (This also makes an 'alliance' that requires a response by the all other races)

I know it is part of the metagame, the strongest thing to do in the game is have your opponent quit, but the accusations (which came from everyone) seemed to be the only thing 'unideal'.

I posted this before Othrym's post. Wow, such an amazing game!

JM
2573 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hello Orthym,
i can't speak in the name of emork, but as you are directly adressing to him in your last posts i want to note that he is now on holiday, which is the reason he might not answer right away. I was planned as his temporary substitute in holding the last stand in the northwestern territory against DM, but one day before he left the big combined MBR-firecloud tow around his flank has made the plans for his resistence futile and he would have left me in charge with a nearly inpossible task (ie to defend against Borgs in the backlands, destroying all his infrastructure). The combination MBR-Firecloud is just too strong for a Midshipman to deal with. So i can ease your remorse a little bit, however the question is what you won with your deadly tow against one of the few players who attacked the Borg successfully (which might also become your opponent soon).
Midshipman Mip.
2573 days, 21 hours, 26 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I owe an explanation for my actions.  Unfortunately that will have to wait until next week.
2573 days, 20 hours, 38 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

very interesting to read ...
it seems pretty logic that the cyborg and privateer combine their forces vs. the klingons, who can be a serious threat to either of them.
is there a number how many of the recycled ships came from the klingons?
2573 days, 19 hours, 51 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Congratulations to both DungeonMaster and Othrym -- for one of you two being the eventual Nu Emperor (probably the first).   It is very clear at this point, with the arrangements you have been able to make, that one of you will win.  Now I will step back and see which one of you prevails.

You both have played this Championship galaxy very well, especially in the realm of diplomacy.  So I am also stepping aside so we can all see which one of you two will win it.  There is no good reason to "fight to the last ship" just so that I can impact the balance for one of you two to victory.  In this case, in this galaxy, having "Dropped" players makes more sense than continuing on for no real purpose besides helping one of you two win.  Especially with so many turns left to decide it all.

What to expect from this Nu Championship game?  I expected that all players would play with honor to win.  My optimal (perhaps idealistic) vision of this Championship Game was that there would be several leaders before it was all decided.  All players would rally against the leader as they continued to conduct their own battles.  There would be several lead changes.  So indeed players would be working with other players (not alone) -- but who they would be working with would change every 15-30 turns based on scoreboard standings.  The eventual winner would likely be a player that both was leading at one point and had several players ahead of them at some other point.  An exciting dynamic environment.  This has been my normal experience in other good, competitive computer/board games.  Amazingly, early on we did achieve part of my vision; there was indeed a very complex network of agreements and plans in Taurus - much more than in any of my other previous Nu games.  Messages from friend and foe were fun to read - and there were even times that I was not sure if a message was coming from a friend or a foe.  That was great and all looked like my utopian vision would come about in our galaxy.  But then the first three players in this galaxy that were facing extinction all made deals with the leaders, ensuring that each of these three players would survive/thrive, but never have a chance to win.  Unfortunately (for me) they eventually tilted the balance enough that it ensured that either the Borg or Pirates would win.  A deserved win for them - with their diplomacy to get those agreements.

I consider playing a VGA Planets Championship game with no diplomacy not a true VGA Planets game.  So while my vision turned out too idealistic for this galaxy, I much prefer how it has turned out than playing in a "Championship" game with no alliances, no ship trades, and no border agreements.  I think that is a fun concept for a private game among friends.  But it does not belong in a VGA Planets Championship game.

So my expectations/vision were not fully met in this galaxy.  However, I am still thinking that my utopian vision will eventually happen in future Nu Championships games. 

Thankfully, like all galaxies, I had a good experience in Taurus and I was able to come away with several lessons.  Lessons to do some things new in the future and lessons that some new things I tried in this galaxy were not good ideas to do again. Interestingly, in a couple of areas, I learned that I should read my own VGAP Guides and do what I recommend :). 

So thanks and good luck!  If I get a chance in the future, I will send one more note in character -- one last transmission to the Crystalline High Command of a copy of a conversation between Bond and Shelob ....
2573 days, 18 hours, 46 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
A big thank you to Othrym for finally giving us some real intel. By far and away the most interesting post! That one was a fascinating and enjoyable read.  


2573 days, 17 hours, 33 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hello Mip,

well the answer will be again a bit complex.

- I know that Emork is a very good player (I learn it again and again in another game where he is not playing his prime race)
- I knew that he wanted to defend his planets until the last ship against the borg.
- I also knew that Veldan and DM have made a temporary peace. They agreed that both of them will first fight other enemies (important to me: not me 8). Then they will break the peace and fight each other without help from anyone else. I told them, that i will accept this and will indeed help none of them _in_ their finaly battle - only if one is obvious down i would take my part.
- Then Veldan marches toward Sants and Emork, but I did not manage to convince DM to focus mainly on another target. He insists that he will keep up a many frontier war and also started a march against Emork.
- At this point of time i believed that my plan of a "balance" between Veldan and DM was in danger.  If both of them march toward Sants and Emork there is no chance for them Sants and Emork. So I decided to take my part _before_ the final war between them. (DM and Veldan will hate me if they reads that *duck*)
- Comparing Sants and Emork I believed that Veldan will just march through Sants especially as Veldan has told me that he is well equipped thus he fears no webs. And I believed that "normally" Emork and DM will beat about the bush a while. Thus it may happen that in the end Veldan and DM both fight against Emork at the same time. Thus after all Veldan would have fought 1,5 war and DM only 0,5.
- Thus in the final war between DM and Veldan, DM could have an advantage as with the build queue slow both will have problems to get new warships.
- Because of this i decided - when DM asked me to send a ship for a tow - not to decline it and not to send only one but five. Idea: More help, faster war, more damage on one side, balance on both sides.
- Nevertheless i hoped (being at this point of time in good standing with him) that Emork would realize the plan, as two turns before the attack another close by MBR went out of fuel in midspace while towing nearby anonther firecloud. Thus i thought that Emork would enhance his Webdefense and that attack will be stopped in midspace. That would not make the plan worse as that also would work toward a balance even if i would lose some ships. Emork told me later that a fence pole would have worked better as a hint then a needle.

Bad luck. My idea of one a bit more complex plan backfired completely. After what you have told us i may be also because of the unluckily coincidence of the attack and the vacation. I think that may be a general problem of planets.nu. Everyone of us has a real life. And everyone has some holydays.
May be it would be an idea to not drop from 3 to 2 turns a week but to give every player (in a 11 player game not a giant mellee) two times per year a one week host turn stop after the first 30 turns. But that should be topic of an own thread.

I hope I could answered your question Mip. So be aware if something looks like a help ;)

Othrym

PS: Hm... i think after this post i will be in the next non alliance game destroyed at sight.

2573 days, 16 hours, 59 minutes ago
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othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
((somewhere far far away ...))

Silence in the great hall. Reflective Othrym went down the hall. What was the first wrong decision? His glance stopped at the forgotten bookshelf in the corner. There was the book that was his only ownership when he reached this cluster. He indeed has forgotten it. A long time has passed since he have read in it. When he arrived at the bookshelf he took the book gently into his hands. "Well ... any ideas?", he asked the book. Othrym sat down on the floor and was going to start reading. Before he opened the book he again read the book's title
"42 hints and tricks to become a fleetadmiral AND remain it" by Vepr

;-)

2573 days, 16 hours, 43 minutes ago
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othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
thin lizzy:

Normally yes, but in this situation the Klingon was no serious threat. At turn 42 (before the attack) he has had 28 warships and 15 freighters. Now there are 9/8. But in the Klingon case i believe most ships where handed over with gs and about 4 get destroyed. The recycling took place last turns and about 84 ships were affected. The build queue before has moved about 1-3 planets a turn before. This turn it moved from about 170 via 500 to 50.

Othrym
2573 days, 16 hours, 11 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
This is such a fascinating thread.  Thank you Othrym for the overview.  I've watched from the outside with bated breath and have heard little bits about the internal workings from a few folks.  I can only hope that someday I'll get to compete in a championship game with all the best Nu players.

FWIW - I have played the "no alliances, attack everybody" scenario.  It depends on the victory conditions of course, but usually it will result in an endless stalemate until somebody drops out (misses turns, goes on vacation, etc.) or gets frustrated when they figure out that others are in fact sharing RSTs when they are not supposed to.  Human nature maybe?  The honor system just doesn't work.  If you try to put restrictions on diplomacy or underhandedness, the so-called cheaters will win.  Just my 2 cents.
2573 days, 14 hours, 46 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
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2573 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
For those who don't have the strategic information assistant installed...
Turn 46:

2573 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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*** Klingon archeological department ***

Master, I finally managed to restore part of the damaged headquarter logs during the Taurus war.

What did you find?

It's the last entry of commander Emork before his mysterious disappearence.

By Grabthar's hammer, this is sensational news. Let's hope it's contains soemthing about his reasons. Play it!

Hmm, what to do? We can't fight the intruders with our far away ships. What can we do to promote the Klingon way of honor most effectively with our little influcence remaining? Let's see ... what we dislike most is clearly the backstabbing happened. We have to accept that some leaders out there think differently about this matter but we will always dislike this behaviour - no matter how high the price is. So let's use all availlable forces to make the backstabber's success as unlikely as possible. Yes, that's the solution! Give all ship codes to someone who isn't related with this party and has a slight chance to stop them. Oh, how this hurts ... but it seems the only logical move in this situation.

Ah, now this explains something. According to the Fed leader the Borg promised to respect the Klingon/Fed border. After this promise was broken and the Pirates' word turned out to be worthless there was no military option anymore. So commander Emork showed at least how our people value backstabbing and all victories won by such tactics.  And of course he tried his best to make such tactics unsucessful! He couldn't know how things developped afterwards.

Master, what does this mean for our future planing?

Oh, nothing. We already made the second entry in our blacklist. If we meet again in our next championship match or anywhere else we'll know better. We would prefer if everyone would manage to get around with just diplomatic trickery. But everything what can be done will be done of course. There's no way to avoid that. So let's try again and hope for a better outcome!
2573 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Food for thought:

兵者,詭道也。

"All warfare is based on deception."  -Sun Tzu
2573 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
WE SENSE KINGMAKERS
THE SYNCHRONICITY OF THIS EVENT IS ALARMING
BE WARNED
THE BORG ARE POWERFUL
AND WISE

2573 days, 11 hours, 18 minutes ago
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zelrik
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
People who make alliances like this in a championship match are shooting themselves in the foot. The Borg & Priv leading 'alliance' was the natural consequence of their actions.
2573 days, 1 hours, 19 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

 . . . hmmmh - i still don't get it . . . it would have been enough to just sit and wait.
both veldan and bond have the mine superiority. no chance for the priv . . .
but why destroy the fleet? or ist this a strategic move in order to get out of the focus . . .

2573 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes ago
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skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I guess they was hissssed by lizards ;)
2572 days, 18 hours, 52 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I must once again humbly request we migrate the Taurus war towards turns 2/week.
The last time I fought Othrym at 3/week we both lost enormous amounts of sleep and that was merely pride that was on the line.

Hint #42 Vepr's guide to dealing with rampaging cyborg: There is no.......
2572 days, 16 hours, 50 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Thumbs up for othrym, what a great post to keep spectators informed. I'll share some of my thoughts as the Bird Man.

I started the game with the following principles

1) there can be only one Emperor. NAPs, border agreements, informal alliances, ship trades all have to be reviewed very carefully, knowing that the other party WILL turn against you at some point. If they don't do that then, well, they are already dead.

2) basically that means that do not trade any ships, period. Unless someone offers you a crazy deal, e.g. good carrier for one of my cloakers other than Resolute or Dark Wing, which isn't likely to happen.

3) That also means that for every agreement, be the one who discontinues the deal. Preferably in a civil way but if time calls for backstabbing, don't hesitate to do it. Otherwise you will be at the receiving end.

4) post some funny bird pictures in the process

And then onto my story on the game events so far. 

Turn 1

Nice starting position! One of the largest clusters in the whole Echo Cluster. Now if only I get to grind my economy in peace for the first turns. Worst case scenario would be an aggressive Lizard neighbour...

Post a picture in the forum. Let's see if anyone sees the connection between mine and Angry Birds' home country.

Turns 2-4

Ghipsoldal, Participatory. Siliconoid, Monarchy. Siliconoid, Participatory. What is this? Only one Amorphous planet so far. Things are looking good!

Turn 5

Crystalline owned MDSF, Neighbourly Scout spotted south of our main cluster. Interesting name choice. Why not Aggressive Scout? :) Open hailing frequencies.

Post second picture. Immediately mocked by top-scoring Privateer player who declined the honor to fight in the Emperor game, using some military deployment excuses. Note to self: need to find or fabricate evidence to prove that he declined just because he's scared to play against the top dogs.

Turn 6

Soft border agreed with Crystals. Maybe he is aiming for economic expansion instead of early aggression. Note to self: find some Moly to start building up sweeping power, that will be needed eventually for sure...

First diplomacy contact with Empire, who is offering intel on homeworlds. Such information not needed at the moment.

Turn 8

Ooooooh crap. Lizards encountered on the northern front. Luckily our Resolute is cloaked so he hasn't seen me yet. It would be foolish to think they will settle for anything but aggression, so let's take the opportunity and show everyone that Lizard supremacy in ground combat is only a myth!

Post a bird picture in the forum mocking Lizard ground combat capabilities.

Turn 10

First CRYSTAL owned PL21 Probe spotted. Poor probe, probably jumped straight into a web field...

Tea Party Starter Set, an Emerald, spotted near our agreed border, something which luckily turns out to be a false alarm.

Turn 12

Lizard first attack deep in my core territory, captures a planet and LDSF. No surprises there.  Make sure he doesn't get away with the captured freighter - at least I'll get the PBPs.

Stiff  propaganda from Lizards's side in the forum. Time to post the ostrich.

Turn 14

Empire PL21 Probe spotted in Lizard space.

Second CRYSTAL owned PL21 Probe spotted almost in same exact spot as the first one. Sants can't be stupid enough to make the same mistake twice, so instead of capture those ships must have been traded. Now wait a minute. That spot is withing one jump distance from both (estimated) Crystal HW and Lizard HW area. This is getting suspicious.

Turn 15

War continues with the Lizards, experiencing LCCs doing ground attacks all over the place. Maybe the ground combat supremacy thingie wasn't a myth after all...

Previously seen Empire PL21 Probe now orbiting Lizard planet, together with a Lizard Eros hiss ship. This is getting even more suspicious.

Turn 16

Finally get to realize that both neighbours, Crystal and Lizard are brothers in real life. Quick look at their profiles. 

"...My "The Art of Diplomacy" strategy guide strongly encourages players to establish at least one ally and to embrace the attitude and philosophy to do all you can for your alliance to succeed." 

Several games, both normal and team, won in brotherly alliance. What the hell? Good starting spot suddenly turned into worst possible nightmare. Post a picture about the situation in complete frustration.

Both the PL21 Probe AND Eros orbiting that Lizard planet are in EMPIRE hands. Now wait a minute. If Empire came there to attack, he would've done so the previous turn. The Eros could have easily escaped. I understand why the brothers are working together, but what's in it for sants?

Turn 17

CRYSTAL PL21 Probe spotted in Lizard space close to the abovementioned planet.

Lizard has a Merlin called MEDIUM DEEP SPACE FREIGHTER. Funny name choice.

Turn 19

First LIZARD owned PL21 probe spotted. Lost count on Crystal and Empire probes, there are just too many. Now their three-way co-operation is just plain obvious. Before checking the diplomacy inbox I suspect the border agreement with Crystal is not going to last long. Coincidentally, same turn bond terminates the agreement. I have to appreciate the gentleman way though, to give notice before crossing the border.

Turn 20

Empire probe first time deep in my area. Dark Sense update before attack no doubt.
First web mines scanned in Lizard area.

Turn 21

LIZARD owned Crystal Thunder Class Carrier spotted in Lizard space. That one is named MEDIUM DEEP SPACE FREIGHTER as well. Where is the imagination, DD? :)

That Carrier didn't fly there on its own. It is possible that they have developed some secret hyperjump technology for Carriers. Or maybe Crystals just have a base in Lizard space...

Turn 22

EMPIRE starbase found in Lizard space, right at my border, with a freshly built Super Star Destroyer in orbit. Time to inform all other players about the three-way alliance, and also to start looking for friends for the inevitable attack of the brotherhood.

Lizard makes first show of force with a T-Rex closing in. Two turns later, that T-Rex meets its destiny in the receiving end of a Dark Wing's tubes.

Turn 23

Crystal web mine activity on my southern border increases. Found a note to myself from several turns ago suggesting to invest in better beams. Go through ships. All are equipped with Disruptors or worse. Ship limit kicks in. Awesome.

Turn 25

Even more increased web activity, not just near the border but over it. Luckily, an Ion Storm appears out of nowhere headed straight in my area. Time to fill tanks with fuel, stay put and lay as many mines as possible.

Turn 28

Crystal has started their offense and captured first planet. CRYSTAL owned GORBIE approaching from deep Crystal space. All right, so that Empire base in Lizard space wasn't the only one far from home. It seems the brotherhood was able to set up the bases and get some good builds just in time before the ship limit. Well played.

That Ion Storm should keep the Lizard out for a while, and Crystal offense should be staggered by my minefields hidden by the storm. This gives me a few turns to try to do whatever possible for survival.

Turn 31

Little by little the Crystal offense progresses. I try to tow snatch a Diamond Flame but Ion Storm protection works both ways and the plan goes to waste.

Turn 32

Second Crystal Gorbie closing in from the south. Ion storm has almost completely passed.

Turn 36

Ion storm goes class 4 just when it's on the outskirts of my core area. Crystal attack fleet is dragged and visible: two Gorbies, two Diamond Flames and one Emerald currently within three turn distance of my homeworld.

Turn 38

Crystal fleet is not advancing for some reason. Maybe they have met some difficulties in other fronts and now consider what to do?  First Crystal SSD seen near the warzone - let's hope that one is needed elsewhere...

Turn 40

...as if. Crystal fleet reaches one of my starbases, two turns distance from my homeworld, but doesn't attack. Two Gorbies, two Diamond Flames, one SSD and one Emerald parked in orbit. Next turn the starbase will be theirs.

Lizard player writes accusations in the forum of Bird Man owned starbase in Borg territory, trying to reason their team game approach with "because you are doing the same thing". My closest presence is more than 700 LY away from that planet. 

Is this a case of Dark Sense gone wrong or just some pointless propaganda effort I do not know. I certainly hope the brotherhood hasn't based all their collective game decisions on "intel" like this.

Turn 42

Lizard Crystal Thunder and T-Rex approaching from the north. Crystal fleet still staying put at the captured starbase in south. Start to execute "Bond Offenses, Othrym Bait his Ships" Trap. 

Turn 44

Lizard brings more ships from the north, that fleet now consists of two Crystal Thunders, one SSD and one T-Rex. Plus some cloakers no doubt.

Crystal captures another starbase, this one with direct Gorbie attack. One turn away from my homeworld.

Othrym deploys "BOOBS" Trap.

Turn 45

Open the turn with mixed expectations. Worst case scenario is that my homeworld is now in Crystal hands, and the surrounding planets Lizardized.

Delighted to see my homeworld in tact and only one other planet conquered by hissers. One Diamond Flame left in Crystal hands, in the warp well of the previously captured planet. The same warp well is full of Privateer owned ships: two Gorbies, Diamond Flame and some Resolutes. "BOOBS" Trap is a complete success.

Turn 46

I get my first builds since 23 turns ago; since the ship limit hit. Time to post another picture.

I see several players decreasing their military score, others increasing in even greater numbers.

Big Lizard strike looms just around the corner. Can I withstand it or not - future turns will tell.

A smile comes to my face after noticing that one of my aggressors has folded. othrym may apologise to bondservant if he wants. I never will.


Rest assured, all the diplomacy I've done so far has been not to make deals with "the leaders", but to fight those who choose to fight me. I will not be made the Emperor, that I know, but at least I will go down fighting the brotherhood who ruined the game from the beginning.
2572 days, 15 hours, 25 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Very interesting and entertaining report from the east side, Jkovalainen!

2572 days, 14 hours, 42 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Jkovalainen,
so great to read your post (as an outsider). I was biting off my fingernails while reading it.
Keep your sense of humor and best wishes that success may stay on your side against all odds.
Like me, there are many "out there" who enjoy every single of your birdpictures.
Thumbs up for you.


2572 days, 13 hours, 37 minutes ago
View nitemare's profile
nitemare
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'm enjoying a lot this last post explaining how the things went. 

 I have to say that I don't understand why people blame Othrym and DM collaboration, I would have done the same if I was the Privateer. He has nothing to do against top crystal, lizard, and some other races commanders while borg is one of his easier preys. And borg has a lot to gain in the starting and middle game while he will try to over run the privateer with minelaying superiority at the end game. 

 We can see that birdmen collaborations with the privateer was too understandable while been attacked from 2 fronts and the collusion of 3 races.

 Sants actions are too understandable for me. He has nothing to do against an early fascist attack and he new it. Any fascist player would attack the ee at first sign and he wanted to survive at any cost. Probably he contacted the feds and they didn't arrive to an agreement against the fascist since the feds had to fight too against the robots so he searched any help he could find. Building a sb in crystalline space and building ships for bondservant in exchange for protecting his territory with webs and surviving against the fascist sounded better than dying at turn 20 so he sell himself hopping to be able to change the balance in the middle - end game.

 And the two brothers... I probably would have collaborated  too with my brother if he was in the same game than me and we could  benefit each other with the collaboration.

  The real difference with the other championship game is the starting position of players. Borg has colonies and privateers like neighbours. Colonies aren't a real danger in the early game so the only one that could had stopped the collective were the privateers but they decided that it was easier to try to destroy the borgs in the end game than some of the other races. An early killed borg would have probably benefited the lizards more than the privateers and the collaboration of lizard and crystalline was a real possibility.  So it is not so estrange how things went in my point of view.. 

 What I don't really understand are the drop outs. In any moment the borg and the privateer will start fighting each other so there are still options in the long term and there is too a metagame decision that should had been taken in account since it really affects the balance of the game. I would like to see all the players fight to the last ship.

 My 2 cents,

 Nite

2571 days, 12 hours, 1 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Nitemare, I don't think anyone "blames Othrym and DM for their collaboration" -- in fact it is what will give one of them the victory.  Indeed I congratulated them in my prior post.

However, I guess I should point out, that Othrym conveniently forgot to mention in his summary the two most critical events that occurred in the Taurus galaxy -- resulting in the Borg-Pirate victory.

First, while it was perhaps not as clear from the outside, from the inside it became clear early on that both the Borg and Pirates were working closely together (just like they have in other Nu galaxies).  Despite their numerous protests to the contrary, the evidence of their collaboration became overwhelming.  The rest of us did not react strong enough against them once we realized this was happening.  Resulting in our downfall.

It is never a good idea in any galaxy to let the Borg grow big in the early to mid game.  It is never a good idea in any galaxy to let the Pirates grow big in the early to mid game.  Whenever the Borg or the Pirates are able to grow as the leader in the early to mid game, my guess is that they end up winning over 90% of the time.  So when they were both able to become the top two leaders in the galaxy and it was realized they were working very closely together to become the final two players, the remainder of the galaxy would have to all work together against them before it became too late.

And we did not.  Eventually -- it became too late.  The odds became heavily in the Borg-Pirates favor to win.

Second, the other shoe drops.  The Feds, then the Rebels and then finally the Birds were all well on their way to become the first three Races to perish in the galaxy -- all prior to turn 50.  So they all three (separately) decided to choose to submit to the winning alliance's ideas of collusion, so they could personally survive long enough to strike back at those that were against them (and against the Borg-Pirates).  It gave them short-term relief.  In return for fighting the Borg-Pirate enemies, they could all three survive for many more turns and then only later they would perish (but not before the rest of us).  Or perhaps they would even become pawns all game long in the Borg vs. Pirate war.  Once they agreed to work with the Borg and/or Pirates in this galaxy, none of the three had any illusion they had a chance to win in the galaxy.  But with agreement to help the winning alliance, they could thrive longer than others and fight common enemies -- exactly what is promised to vassals.

So now, as I mentioned in my last post, there is no good reason for anyone but the Borg and Pirates to now stick around.  I have never "dropped" in a game before.  But it makes no sense for me to not-drop in this Championship Game at this time.  It is a simple reality - nothing to do with "nerves" to stick around any longer.  The Borg-Pirate alliance, with the help of three players (in-effect: vassals) have won. Game over -- advantage Borg-Pirates.

This game is now fundamentally over for everyone but two players.  Good game by both the Borg and Pirates.  One of these two Commanders deserve to win due to their excellent diplomacy.

So now I will just step back and watch the two of them fight to become Emperor.
2571 days, 6 hours, 34 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Although I won't comment too much because the game is still in progress, I will make a brief note.

Bond I realize you view this game as primarily a diplomatic venture, that is your "style" and we'll talk at length without rancour at game's end if you wish on this very subject and how we agree and differ. 
However while you continue to highlight what you perceive as diplomatic coups, in my mind, while significant, it is the tactical mistakes that caused by far the most damage and the precipitous decline of fortunes.
If the pirate's ship count keeps increasing, and the romulan's decreasing, you probably should bring a loki along with your main fighting force, you do have a lizard ally after all.  
Likewise if a cube shows up, aggressively advances, then skirts all your planets and disappears, you must consider the possibility that in fact there could be borg in the nearby fed cluster and perhaps not send your entire army to the front to attack a scant few planets of no global significance.
I don't view these as diplomatic mistakes, regardless if diplomacy is involved at some level, these were, ultimately, fatal tactical mistakes. By all means have your difference of opinion but that is how I read the game's progress.
2571 days, 5 hours, 22 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
dungeonmaster,

Why do you feel Joshua is cheating?

From what I understand, people were invited to join the game and either accepted or declined. Those who accepted then opened their schedules and scrambled to plan their tactics, build alliances, reread available literature, and scout their fellow players' games.

Your accusations that multiple players joined together in a pre-made alliance, which could only be done with Joshua's complicity, implies that Joshua is cheating by arranging people to join in groups, instead of as individuals based on their ranking.

I don't understand why you think Joshua is such a bad person? He seems nice to me.
2571 days, 5 hours, 13 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I have no idea what line of reasoning you're following mjs. That post doesn't make any sense to me. There's a step missing in the logic that escapes me. How precisely do I accuse Joshua of cheating in anything I've written here?
2571 days, 4 hours, 57 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
dungeonmaster,

You said; "Your intent from turn 1 was to have a "team game" with the championship match."

As an experienced and excellent player, I am sure you know that alliances, trading, cooperation, and joint ventures are basic strategies of the game. The only time this is cheating is when players purposely join the same game with ready-made alliances.

From what I understand, Joshua picked the players in this game. So, the only way for players to join as a pre-made group or team was to have Joshua cheat and choose them together on purpose.

My observations seem different than you. I don't think Joshua has done any cheating at all. He seems to be a stand up guy.


2571 days, 4 hours, 49 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I read between the lines mjs and I think you're mildly upset at how your "theory" of diplomacy has ostensibly worked against your brothers in this game. I have made no accusation towards joshua, it is a crude deflection that takes a warped mind to understand, what I labelled as "team game" tactics of your brothers are evident to all playing.
We'll talk at length later sanchez brotherhood, now shoo.
2571 days, 1 hours, 38 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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Just a brief update for the audience:

As announced by bondservant he continues to retire from the cluster. 13 more ships were crash landed on planets. The Empire joined the idea to accelerate the build queue and also crashed 10 ships, thus Cystals and Empire now have only 4 warships left. There are also rumors that Veldan has also destroyed another two Virgos.
With that kingmakers moves it now indeed looks like the complete left side of the cluster is without defence. Thus the now 4 leaving races indeed would have managed to elect the emperor they want to have before turn 50 has reached.

Nevertheless it will still be exciting how the other ranks will be shared. The bold Lizard warriors managed to conquer Crystal starbases and many new Lizard warships have been build the last 2 turns. Also many new ships have left the docks of the Robots and Privateers. Who will keep control? Time will tell 8)

2570 days, 19 hours, 52 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
dungeomaster,

I know what "team game" tactics are. I just finished a team game (that we won). As the Borg, I think I fought exactly 1 (ship-to-ship) battle, a Firecloud that chased down a pesky probe. As the Borg, I gave dozens of Cubes to the Lizard. However, as the economic arm of the team, I took over most of the planets. We had 300+ planets at the end. The Crystal, whose sole job was to lay web mines, had only a dozen or so planets. That is what "team tactics" are. It means getting together with people, planning strategies and roles in advance, and then looking around for a game to join.

In both championship games, players were chosen by Joshua. In both championship games, alliances developed among players. (In fact, in all of recorded history, can you name a single war where there were a dozen combatants and none of them allied?) So, it is only natural that players ally, cooperate, trade, etc. It is also so in VGA Planets.

In both championship games such alliances formed. In the first game it was thin lizzy/space squad/halion, a well-oiled team. But, while they have cooperated, they are not a team. Each is out for victory.

In a team game, players decide to join together with no intention of individual victory. You said that that is what occurred in this game. You said players were using "team tactics," i.e., they decided to join a game as a team, whereby everyone would sacrifice themselves to the greater good, and then they decided to pick this game. That is possible in regular VGAP games. However, in the championship games, Joshua picks the participants. Therefore, players can only pick a championship game to join together and play as a team if Joshua helps them do so, which is cheating on Joshua's part. Since you say that that is what happened, your complaint is that Joshua is cheating and purposely picked a group of people to join the game so they could play as a team.

I disagree with you. I don't think Joshua cheated and picked a team to join either championship game. I think a better explanation is that people make temporary and shifting alliances to advance their own personal goals (which may not all be the same).
2570 days, 19 hours, 1 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi mjs,

as a neutral third party I have to say that I don't get what you are talking about. DM never acused Joshua to be cheating - not directly nor indirectly. Also, Joshua does not chose the players for the championship match. He is just inviting the leading players of each race. He has no influence who these players are.

Further more I want to say that I don't regard the temporary cooperation of Othrym and DM as something to criticize . As you might know I was on the wrong end of the chunnel but such a cooperation is without a doubt within the rules of the game. There were other temporary cooperations in this match that were closer and/or started as early as this one.
 
2570 days, 15 hours, 14 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

I do not have the time to read all the post here, so i do not have the full picture what happened and why. But i am kind of disappointed that 3 (7 if you add Scorpio) well known players committed suicide just because they could not swallow their pride. At least that’s what i think its down to.

I can not be number 1, so i quit!! That’s the wrong way. It should have been: I can not be number 1 for now, so i will step back for a moment and wait for my second chance. And there will be a second chance for sure.

btw mjs:
the Lizzy/Halion/Space alliance never exists in Scorpio, i will explain it in the Scorpio discussion and you can check it when the game is over. Keep the assumptions and the propaganda in Taurus. Scopius is a gentlements war :)


2570 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi spacesquad!

> I can not be number 1, so i quit!! That’s the wrong way.

It may not look so at the moment but I totally agree. I will give a summary of my experience in this game soon. I'm just waiting for a certain thing to happen.
2570 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

agree with spacesquad - bailing like this is shortsighted.
alliances shift too fast in this type of game to be able to make any prediction.
in scorpius we have had at least three major changes, and the game is far from being decided.

bailing like this changes so much more...
2570 days, 11 hours, 44 minutes ago
View cptspiff's profile
cptspiff
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Surely the biggest problem with everyone leaving is that the winner only needs 200 planets to win? If the battle really is only between two people, it seems silly for everyone else to leave it since either of those commanders can now win the game without winning a single battle against the other. It just comes down to rate of expansion.

mjs: Players can make alliances before the game begins by just seeing who else has been invited and talking to them. No reason for Joshua to be involved in anythnig.
2570 days, 7 hours, 36 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
At this point I don't believe that anyone is "waiting" on my promised response, but I promised it, so you'll get it.

I joined this game expecting to have several things;
1.  A high stakes game with lots of great players, of which I knew I was not the best of them... but they were going to get the best effort I could muster.
2.  My schedule to remain fairly stable so as I could give the best effort required for thing #1.
3.  Everyone to play to win.

Two has not panned out.  As I have mentioned to both DM and Bond in private communications, if I had known that my job and work schedule (due to a high level of turnover) was going to change this quickly back in march I would not have joined this game.  I would have stepped right out, everyone deserved better from the colonies than what I have provided.

There's several things I have not been able to do in this game that I do in every game;
1.  Plan out my construction and logistics down to the mineral.  (at least prior to ship limit)
2.  Work heavily in diplomacy and collaboration
3.  Develop short term tactical plans and long term strategic plans.

As anyone can tell you.. these are absolutely vital, to even be competitive. (well maybe not #1.. but that's what I was doing up until turn... 5.)

Anyone who has tried to engage in diplomacy with me can tell you that I have been slow to reply.. at least 1 turn delay.. if I even respond.  (Unless you happen to catch me at the right time).  And most of the time I've been annoyed... (sorry didn't have the time for the dance of VGA diplomacy.. I required info.. and I could care less about the BS responses that some put up.)

This game has been a disaster.. but all the while I did have plans for victory... it required laying low until the right moment.  That moment was supposed to be the expiration of my first NAP with DM.  I couldn't believe that Othrym would allow DM to get a strong foot hold in this game.  Since I couldn't pay attention to turn by turn changes.. and didn't converse with anyone I had no idea what was going on... my understanding of everything quickly spiralled out of control.

My plans for victory shifted and relied on some personal (work) changes coming up in August.. but that is not going to pan out... as well as Bonds continuation in this game.  He and I started conversing a little closer, but I quickly realized that he was done.  With his exit, so went my plan for victory.  So I am making some changes of my own.. this requires a change of venue in my personal life, as well as the discontinuation of my participation in this game.  I only see my continued existence and participation as being a pawn of DM and/or Othrym.  As I will be surrounded by those two in about 15 turns anyway.  

DM promised a riveting one-on-one fight with me, and I was looking forward to losing nobly to him in a head-to-head match up (I do know I'm bested by several players in this game)... well as nobly as things could ever get in this kind of match.  And since Othrym was going to be the only relevant player in that match.. he pledged to be non-player.  And I promised to not work directly with anyone.

Othrym's pledge to be a non-player in that fight is not the reason for my distaste for what he has done in this game... my distaste is all my own... and frankly Othrym has effectively shown that he could care less about how I feel, and that's quite all right.  I wish I could have taken the high road.. but I needed to voice something about what was about to happen.  My apologies for the lack of elegance.

Finally, going back to my original point #3.. everyone playing to win... that has been discussed.. I have nothing further to add.  Once I felt that point had been breached irrevocably, I was done.

I am recycling my fleet because it is the only fair thing to do.. othrym is right non my doorstep, and that would be far too damaging to DM than what I want to do.  I don't want to give my ships to DM because I don't want him to win that easily... afterall 9 Virgos + 2 Merlins owned by the borg would be a tad bit unbalancing.. considered He's only built about 8'ish cubes prior to turn 43.  But I got to exit.
2568 days, 19 hours, 54 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well... it looks like the crystal NUKed all the lizard ships orbiting his worlds, I am just dying to know if the lizard was in fact in agreement to do that or if it was a last and maybe even vindictive parting shot?
2567 days, 13 hours, 44 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
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Admiral DragonDejhi walked into the high council with his longtime friend and most recently, his second. 

“Well, what did you expect sir?  You scuttled over two dozen ships and had the Crystals do target practice with another dozen.”  The second looked both excited and nervous.

The Admiral looked calm despite his second’s worry. “Now Chak’tak, relax, we have no place in this system anymore.  And the Crystals were not target practicing, they were helping us with new ground assault technology.  When a ship is about to blow up, it releases an electrostatic charge. If it is routed to the transporters, this charge can beam you to anywhere on  a planet.  And, it seems the entire ship’s crew, but one lizard can transport.  This will help us in the future.”

“What will you do now sir?  The fleet has been your entire life?”

“Not to worry Chak’tak, my wife has been relishing the chance to spend some time at our vacation house.  She loves that desert planet.  Our land has sunning rocks all over the place.”  A small smile crossed his face as his mind escaped into relaxation.

“But what about fleet life?”

“Ah, there is an outpost of Crickets on Cruisers there. “

“Is that the volunteer agency that takes food to homeless veterans, or to planets that were just incorporated into the Alliance and are short on food.”

“The very one.  That should keep me busy.”

“Okay, that’s fine sir, but you know that is not what I men.  You are a warrior. You will miss the fight.”

 This time, instead of a smile, a sly grin crossed the admiral’s face.  “Not to worry again my friend.  Focus less on the food source and more on the transport source.  They may be old fleet antiquated cruisers, but they are still cruisers.  And, the newly acquired planets for the alliance tends to have members still loyal to the old regime with small ships causing problems.  Besides, you remember Captain Mienfar’blart?  He is in R&I now.  It seems they are developing a Saurian that has an extra torp tube an incredible nine beams and can still cloak.  He said I can take it out with him whenever I want.  Now I will have the time.”

“Hummm, doesn’t seem much like retirement sir.”

“Oh well.  We all relax in our own way right?”  Both Lizards have made their way to the entrance of the Grand Council chambers. Word was spread of their arrival.  After a few minutes the two great doors slowly opened up.

“ Chak’Lak Ti`more DragonDejhi, please approach the council. “ (Editors note: Please do not make fun of DragonDejhi’s middle name.  It is said it could be a female or males middle name.  It has a long honorable history, but I have been told he is sensitive about it.  Comment at your own risk).

“Admiral DragonDejhi.  Before your actions last season, the Lizards had the most ships in this system and the set up to control the most planets!!!  What do you have to say about nbgfidsg kbfbfkdv kbvkbvkbd svbkjsbvkjbvkjbv kbvksbvkbsvkb… blah blah blah,”  as the councils voices faded into the recesses of his mind, the admiral was thinking of his wife sitting on the sunning rocks with her bright green scales shinning in the sun.  On her hips were a few sexy golden scales only he got to see.  Now an evil grin crossed his face.  Oh what will ensign DD  do first in retirement?....

2567 days, 13 hours, 39 minutes ago
View dragondejhi's profile
dragondejhi
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Greetings all;  I know many would like a summary of the Lizard empire now that I am gone.  However, out of respect for those playing, I will wait until the game is over before I do so.  I have a few more turns of actions to complete my departure. However, I know anything I say will cause an argument based on sound logic, whining complaints or  just plain misinformation/lying.  None of which I have the stomach for any more.  Since I will be stopping my subscription to this thread, I will not be able to answer questions posed to me.  

  Play well.  Seek back your honor.  And good luck to all! Fair the well, -=The DragonDejhi=-
2567 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Er.... dragon is leaving?! Ok?! He has tons of ships, tons of military!

We're getting kinda slim on active players in Taurus. Seriously guys, your situations were not *that* bad.


2567 days, 12 hours, 36 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
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This was supposed to be a championship match?!  Really?

Quitting, and people whining about crap... champions my arse.

2567 days, 12 hours, 33 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
haha yeah.. that is what i was thinking too. some people just don't have the guts to fight anymore... or they see that there is no point fighting a hopeless war (which would had to be decided).

the birds and me were in far worse shape and we are still alive and kicking.. more alive than kicking but still...
2567 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
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2567 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Personal reasons, I fully understand, Veldan's in that camp. Life gets in the way, no fault to the player.
Completely out-manoeuvred, I understand, Emork is in that camp, albeit there are still things you can do other than leave it's all very ugly. 
Out-played, many significant defeats, bond is in that camp. Bond could have stayed in this game much longer, not to ultimately win short of a miracle.
Lizard, I don't frankly see the distress and this comes as a total shock. Still has big military score, a pile of planets covered in webs and no significant military or positional defeat.
The fed, the birds, the rebel are ALL in worse situation.
2567 days, 2 hours, 40 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
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. . . something is rotten in the state of denmark.
2567 days, 2 hours, 14 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Joshua remove thier rank right away, quitters should get what they deserve.  Let them fight in beginner games again, hunting for points and feel proud if they kill the noob next door. Taurus is a desaster for .NU in my eyes. 2 Years of disscussing about noobs that quit way to early and how to punish them or how to avoid that players quit early. Now we have those (top??) players that run at first sign, a great prototype for all beginners.

I feel very sorry for the game, and personaly i am very disappointed of some behavior. There are many good players that would love to join and fight and you just throw it away.......

2567 days, 1 hours, 30 minutes ago
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aanold
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I concur, this is ridiculous.
2567 days, 1 hours, 13 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
right... as i posted earlier.. i doubt that i ll play a game like this again if the people are unknown to me... this is a total mess and those people who really were up for the challenge have to suffer. the whiners and quitters took away all the joy and effort others have put into being able to participate in this format.
2566 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago
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ronnle robot
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Interesting developments here.... I'm playing the down-trodden Robots in the Scorpius War, and I'm definitely not among the most skilled players here, but NU seems to reward tenacity as much as skill so I ended up among the Champions anyway. All I can promise is that the Scorpius Robots will never give up, as long as I have even a single Small Deep Space Freighter left, you can expect me to look for a way to get back in the game..... even if certain doom is looming. That is what makes the game fun, at least for me it is. Winning is just icing on the cake :-)
2566 days, 20 hours, 48 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Now as the Lizard retreat is made official I can summarize my experience in this game. As there is a lot of general criticism about resigning my summary is followed by a more detailed explanation why I resigned. Just in case someone wants to make the effort to achieve a differentiated understanding why the different players resigned.
I also planed to include such a nice turn by turn history as jkovalainen did but I forgot that after resigning I can't get into my turns anymore - and I have a bad memory. A pity because I started fighting asap and there were a lot of interesting and funny occurrences.

Championship match setup

1. General: There isn't a need to change something in the championship match setup in my opinion. Some of these games will go well some won't. This depends mostly on the players involved and the starting positions of the races.

2. General: A game without alliances is by far the biggest challenge for your diplomatic skills. I wasn't aware of that in the beginning and focused on fighting. I did negotiate with my direct neighbours but that's not enough in such a setup. That's my main lesson learned.

3. This match: The starting positions of each race were a bit problematic. The Pirates started between two races (Borg and Rebel) which are no danger for them. Lizards, Feds, Birds and Klingons were far away. Only the Crystals were quite near but the Rebels refused the offered web support and tried to fight the Pirates on their own (?). So the Pirate could develop totally undisturbed. Nearly the same is true for the Borg. But this was not because their neighbours (Colonies and Pirates) weren't able to fight them but had other reasons not to do so. The Colonies were tempted by getting a few FCCs (which never happened) and had limited time for this game anyway. The Pirates had a master plan that included the Borg as their fighting puppet (very clever!). So two of the potential dominating races got very strong. That is especially a problem with the Borg (see number 4).
Please note that I of course realize the other potential problem of having two brothers in the game and in close starting positions. I don't cover this here because it was already debatted a lot in former posts.

4. This match: Another evidence for me why the Borg have to be destroyed asap. It has nothing to do with the power of assimilation or the power of Cubes. It's only because chunneling is a fun killer for the opponents. It's simply no fun to build up strategic positions and prepare to defend or attack with your fleet when these many hours of careful planing can be made futile so easily and there's little or nothing that can be done about it. In my opinion the introduction of the chunnel was wrong. Something had to be done to power-up the Borg in the old days but compensating an early game weakness with a late game super power was the wrong way. You can argue that the FCC are great for trading and there useful in the early game. But if this suceeds and the Borg survive and get strong you'll have exactly the problem I mentioned.
Another note: In this setup with only temporary alliances the chunnel is even stronger. The Borg can offer and withdraw assistence everywhere in short time. So they are best in helping the most desperate race and get the ships or services they want in return.

5. This match: The Klingons had the very special problem that the lethal attack was done by FCCs that were towed by MBRs and came out of a friendly area. So they appeared some 100 LJ from my line of defense. It didn't make sense to play catch with them. All I could try is to defend with 2 LDSF, a Popper, a Merlin and a W5 Vicky.  Additionally the Borg already had Lokis ready for attack AND defense so … I was defeated. Noone should say I didn't try to fight before he exmained my turns after the game.
 There was a small chance that Borg & Pirate divorce early enough that I get back in the game. But that chance was too smallfor me to spend many more hours waiting for it. I could have done only one thing to make this more likley. I could have threatened to quit and hand over my complete fleet and planets to the Borg if the Pirates don't stop cooperating immidiatly (or the other way round). I heared another player made this move successfully. But somehow I feel it is wrong to use this "meta-game" threat. You can do this as a last consequence before quitting but not for bargaining. That's a personal opinion of course.

My(!) resign

I admit that my immidiate resign had partly emotional reasons. I was very disappointed about the backstab of the Pirate leader with whom I chatted quite nicely and discussed my dislike of the chunnel concept exactly one turn before the combined MBR-FCC-attack happened. The promise that my border with the Fed is safe was also broken. Not by the Fed but by the Borg. The Borg promised the Fed to respect our treaty but they didn't and - that is what makes me also a little sad - they will get away without any sanctions from the Feds. Additionally the mood in this game was not so good with all these accusations made before. I don't spend lifetime to recieve bad vibrations. But that was not my main reason for resigning.

As I described above I had no more possibility to *fight* or get much fun out of this game. So I decided to quit and thought how I could do this and
1. harm the Pirates
2. keep the game interesting

To explain my goal number 1: I know that many players regard backstabbing a regular diplomatic mean. I don't and I know this is a weakness. Of course backstabbing is legal in the game and I won't blame anyone for using it. But it's also my right to dislike this behaviour and regard backstabbers as eternal enemies - in-game of course! I don't mind backstabbing this much in other diplomatic games that last only a few hours. But in a planets game I hate all things that make weeks of commited play futile in a second.  

For achieving goal number 2 I came to the conclusion that only the Lizard who had a few Probes near would be able to put up resistance fast enough. He could build Lokis against the Pirate and Lizard Coldpains would be immum to Borg Lokis. So I offered my ships to the Lizard. In my opinion this was the best thing to hinder the Borg to steam-roll my area and then the EE area. If they managed to do that they would have won for sure. I didn't know that the Lizard will finally decide to also quit. The Lizards also didn't know at that point. I noticed that the Lizard leader has spent a lot of time to plan how to make the best out of this situation.

I would have faught if I would have been able to do so. But my analysis showed that if I try my ships would just be transformed into Pirates or into Borg PBP. That's why I acted like I did.  It's the second time in my Echo cluster career where I resign with my fleet intact. I hope the third time is far away.

Cheers, Emork

2566 days, 20 hours, 18 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ok, flying ships off the map = NOT COOL dragon. Very childish. For fuck's sake. It's a game but this doesn't have to be a kids game.
2566 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Sorry emork, but you cannot complain about fireclouds when you are bounding out as many web fields as you want in cheeseball without thinking after picking up a free privateer fleet.

I have no respect for you and the others who quit.  Its actually much like the badminton scandal at the olympics.  IF i get invited to a champion match, I don't know that I would participate now after this.
2566 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Looking from the outside, and not really knowing the situation in Taurus -- I can understand some of the comments on the forum.  Please re-read some of the players' notes -- this Championship Game is Over.  The Borg-Pirate alliance, with their three vassals (Feds, Rebels, Birds) have won.  The only thing left is for the Borg and Pirates to fight to determine who becomes Champion.

No need to write any further about how/why players are leaving.  It is that simple.  Game is essentially over.  The Borg-Pirate alliance (with their three vassals) won and the players leaving don't wish to play another 30+ turns to help either the Borg or the Pirates win.

I too am unsubscribing to this thread.  I think it is too hard at this time for others outside Taurus to truly assess the Taurus situation, especially with the Borg/Pirates clearly not giving a full accurate picture because they are still playing to win.

Good fortunes....
2566 days, 19 hours, 52 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Bond, from a spectator point of view.
EVEN if the privs and borg were allies, one or the other had to backstab at some point.  There can be only one victor...do you not understand this?

What you did to those who were watching the game from outside is ruin the anticipation as to when this would happen and who would initiate it.  The quitters pouted and stomped off home with their ball.  Well good riddance to the lot of you.


2566 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ok, ok let's clear the air for the observers and lay some specifics on the table.
I'm giving out in-game information which I really shouldn't but let's not have exaggerated premises rule the day. This has turned into a playground rather than a mature and god knows old game of strategy.  
 
The fed has received 1 biocide from me and I have 4 loki. I also gave him a shipment of materials. That's the extent of our trading. Literally, that's it, in 50 turns. He hasn't even refit a single ship yet for me. 

The rebel has fought 1 battle against the crystals, his neighbour. 2 rush fought a gorbie and a diamond flame. I even compensated him a biocide because I initially said I would do the heavy fighting. As far as I am aware that's all he has ever done for the pirate+borg alliance when it existed.
 
The romulan has fought like a wild animal and caused the loss of 2 gorbie, 2 diamond flames from ship trades to the pirate and subsequent rob. Anything else he has done is to his own merit under the worst circumstances possible. I'm not joking the fleet was something like rex-rex-rex-rex-mad-thunder-thunder-thunder-diamond-diamond-diamond-gorbie-gorbie-ssd + all the cloaked crystal and lizard LCC and support ships, it was nuts. Jkovalainen is a very good player.   

In military terms the only deadly move was the out-manoeuvred klingon fleet. None of the other positions were un-recoverable. They were merely "bad" and the lizard's was never under any significant pressure.

The pirate has no rush, no cubes, I have no pirate design ships at all. No "vassal" race has a base in my territory. Not one. The pirate I guess has 2 at least.   
This is not an abnormal game where the pirate+borg abused "vassals" to their ends. It's been pretty tame. Some good moves.
If there was "vassal" abuse it was sants. Sants whored out his entire fleet, but not to us.         
2566 days, 18 hours, 53 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Seveith, it's doesn't help a discussion if you relate things on different levels such as me having many webs in a specific game and a general questioning of the chunnel concept as a game element. I didn't complain about FCCs being part of the Taurus championship game. In fact, I knew that there will be FCCs before I joined.

I'm sorry about the other part of your message. But discussion about this seems futile because I sense the one power that can't be overcome: ignorance.

2566 days, 18 hours, 12 minutes ago
View figak's profile
figak
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Game on people!

Looking forward to see how this continues to the last man.

At least those that left have practically killraced themselves, in a way worse for the priv. Thanks for your explanations and insight. The drama.. Oh well, part of the noise of war.

I'm so looking forward to see who ends up being Abel and who Cain.

Game on!
2566 days, 17 hours, 35 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The point, emork, is that webs are less fun than fireclouds.  And since you no longer have to worry about house keeping the minefield you no longer need it frees up ships to lay more.  But you are right that is beside the point...as is the firecloud.

The point here is the quitters.
2566 days, 16 hours, 58 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Off the edge of the map?  How fun!  So either the Priv will zip out there and nab them or the Borg will chunnel there and blow them up.  Sounds like an excellent diversion from the actual game.  Let's all wait for DM and Othrym to fight it out 500 LY from the nearest planet.  Ha!
2566 days, 16 hours, 8 minutes ago
View bluejay's profile
bluejay
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Nice to hear that the Birdman has "fought like a wild animal".
2566 days, 15 hours, 58 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

cool runnings or pandorum, that's the question . . .
2566 days, 14 hours, 13 minutes ago
View julius's profile
julius
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Emork, don't know where you get the idea that I turned down the offer of web support, I was in full agreement to trade web support for fighter building abilities with Crystals. The problem was that as soon as it became evident that Privateer was my neighbor the discussion's came to naught. I was having to lay my own mines and expected to keep the privateer at bay, which is not very easy for the Rebels to do.

It seems that the players who are leaving the game are saying that they had no chance due to the impact of Borg / Privateer and their "vassals" working together. The biggest impact on this game was the people who left, recycling all their ships which then gave the Borg and Privateers even more of an advantage due to their number of Starbases resulting in more ship builds. You all decided the game was over (for yourselves) when it was far from over. This is a championship match and a hell of a lot could still have happened.
2566 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Sorry Julius, if I told wrong. That information I got from the Crystals and as they offered web support to many I had no doubt about it. This was one of the big riddles for me up to now because we all know that a Rebel on his own has no chance against the Pirates.
2566 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
What is the criteria for receiving an invitation to such a game?

Would someone that has played the Rebels in all of their games and accumulated lots of points in one race get the nod over someone who's hypothetically played 11 games with each race and won all of those games?

If that is the case, then I would say that the criteria should be rethought.
2566 days, 13 hours, 0 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
+1 capnkill
2565 days, 0 hours, 33 minutes ago
View julius's profile
julius
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Capnkill, interesting race choice that you use as an example... :)

I also believe that the selection process should be looked at, currently I believe that it is the top players on the leader board that are chosen to play in these matches, if someone prefers to play a particular race he would then obviously move up the the leader board for that race. On the other hand a very good player that plays fewer games and likes to play different races would then never get an invitation to a championship match.

Perhaps a better way would to have a separate Championship leader board with averages e.g. each player has and average score for the games that he has completed, this would then give all players an equal chance at getting an invitation and playing in the match. Only completed games should contribute to the leader board - not sure if the current leader board incorporates scores from games where a player has bailed. The person that prefers a particular race will then have to be more consistent when playing that race to maintain a good average.

On the negative side players who see that things are not going well would then bail from the game so as not to influence their averages.
2564 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
This discussion would better belong in another thread, but I don't think the Leaderboard scores, as they are, amount to much really. They reward playing as many games as possible and thats it. When assessing an opponent or potential ally, I currently do the following:

1) Check the number of concurrent games they are running. This gives insight on the expected attention to a specific game. 1 or 2 games = dedication and resilience can be expected. 6+ games = probably resigns the moment things get a little rough.

2) Calculate the number of turns played in the listed games and compare it to the amount of total turns played. This gives an idea on the amount of resigned games.

3) Compare the destruction score to the experience score. If the destruction score is low, the player has either had it very easy or is content playing second fiddle to someone else. The 'experience' bar being significantly longer than the destruction bar doesn't yet mean someone is a weak player, but combined with a lot of resigned games it does.

4) Check out some of the games they have won previously, trying to determine how big an achievement the victory actually was. Maybe checking even a few opponent profiles.

5) Forum activity. Posting on the forum tells of active interest and dedication.

Even with that data, I still have no idea how good a player is unless I've played with them before. The only real way to assess player strength would be a scoring similar to chess, where your opponents skill points affect your points gain when winning/losing, but even then it would take years before the scores start to settle to sensible values. This is why I actually would rather see dedication and resilience as the definitive measurement of a good player.
2564 days, 13 hours, 48 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The # of won games are not so much an indicator for a good player as you might think.

I got Commander of the Feds within only 8 Turns played (!) by just taking over a game where the leading player dropped and ending the game asap.

So in order to get a real idea about how much worth a victory is in a certain game, there should be other things considered:

1) instead of the sole number of Planets owned, the victory condition should be more the sum of everything (number of planets owned, military score, destroyed tons, minerals and money owned).

2) to calculate how much a victory after victoryconditions of 1) is really worth, there should be a personal factor on the achievements which is connected to the ranking/achievements of the other players taking part in that game as well as the number of turns played.
This factor could also be reduced by the ranking/achievements of the player one was allied with.
This would result in getting a higher personal factor if one is taking part in a game where the other players are more experienced and vice versa. Think this idea of relative weighting is already common in chess or other games for calculating hierarchies.

3) to avoid player dropping too easily there should finally be an achievement points entrance fee for every game someone is subscribing at.

I don't think any of these points would be difficult to install and they all would add alot more of ingame fairness and fun for everyone.

and as i am already dreaming...

4) reduce the power of the Firecloudchunnel by adding an additional penalty to the chunnel (f.e. a certain propability for a damage to chunneling ships). I know this won't happen, but it would add alot of fairness to the game. As would be an increasing of the advantages slightly for the Evil Empire.

And about the kind of harsh accusations going on towards the dropping players in this championshipgame i want to add that already being willing to enter a championshipsgame, knowing there is a chance of 10:1 that you will lose ALL your achievements and becoming an ensign again is quite challenging and i pay respect to everyone who choses to walk this path, no matter if they quit the game or not.

 Of course the big problem with quitters is again that every quitter is giving a big advance to their neighbours and so i would like to add a final point to my improvement suggestions:

5) introduce a killrace-feature that removes all factories, mines and money from the planets as well as starbases and ships in case a player drops without immediate replacement.
2562 days, 19 hours, 42 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'm not sure that the Taurus thread is the right place to discuss what the criteria for joining a championships match is. All the players in this game were/are champions. We shouldn't criticize too harshly and keep an open mind, the leaderboard for the most part achieves its goals and selects out the better players. There are some well known discrepancies but overall, those players do indeed deserve their rank in my opinion.

The discussion about borg firecloud chunnel being too powerful is likewise flawed and belongs in another thread. Just because a few players believe it to be overpowered does not in fact make it so. Many players try and fail to win with the borg. In the hands of a master, be careful. Very careful.

Emork I'm impressed you whored out so many planets to the empire in very short order. What a concerted effort, my estimate of when to strike was bang on.
2562 days, 19 hours, 23 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hehe, of course you were right to deal with the Klingons asap. NFC recycling to prepare for transwarp Gorbies was in full swing.

My questioning of the chunnel was a side note and belongs to it's own thread. But as this won't ever be changed we can as good just stick to directive number one if you want to win: Kill a (good) Borg at first sight. Or ally and hope ...


2561 days, 1 hours, 14 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

i am happy to see that the lizards may struggle but don't quit.
also that the rebels are doing so well.

what still confuses me is that everybody is talking about the
borg and priv... while the colonies and crystals are needed
to stop a far more dangerous endgame race . . .
2548 days, 22 hours, 59 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
After all those hot discussions going on at Taurus War it now feels so quiet. I wonder what alliances are being worked out now and kind of miss my daily soap. No birdpictures, no accusations... and also the big question: what's the DM / Othrym situation recently...
Seems that with the dropping of Bondservant all the emotions have calmed and the games is now just like any other game.
The last info about the ingame situation (after the mass droppings) is nearly 18 days old and from DM.
Give us faithful spectators some breadcrumbs to chew on!
2548 days, 22 hours, 3 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
At the present time all borders are being redrawn, cheap and easy planets have flooded the market and regardless of race that's goal #1. Borg invades the western flank in force, robot invades lizard in force, pirate takes what he can from every corner.
Lizard sent his ships into the void and then left.
I see no large scale military engagements for many turns, merely minor skirmishes while everyone grabs pieces of the easy pie and re-positions.
There are chips moving diplomatically, betrayals and sudden shifts, many people holding their breath for the right moment, we'll have a grand finale for sure.

2548 days, 9 hours, 20 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

... number 5 - and i thought everybody signed to stay in until the bitter end!
2548 days, 9 hours, 18 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Bah, quitters!

Aside from the ones with personal life interfeerring, there is no reasonable excuse for quitting a so called Championship game.


2548 days, 9 hours, 0 minutes ago
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zelrik
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well, I said at the beginning that if the Borg is in the top players after turn 30, he would win. I also stated that the winner was pretty clear at around turn 46 or so. How many cubes you guys need to see in deep space to believe me? 30? 40? I wonder what the final count will be :p.
2548 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes ago
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star72066
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Every now and then a squirrel finds a nut !

In Pre-match predictions :  "Someone will forget about the Borg and he is to good a player and he will grab victory"

Borg was paying 1:1 in Vegas Nu at the time of the wager.

I believe I am owed 3 years of free membership.

That is all !

-Star

2536 days, 6 hours, 50 minutes ago
View cosmo's profile
cosmo
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Just read the entire thread; sounds like real life.

Seriously if all 11 of them were put in a field and commanded to fight to the death (if you refused you were just killed by the game organizer) you'd see similar outcomes.  The strong and diplomatic would join together initally to hunt down and eliminate the others (they would turn on each other if the timing seemed right).  Some would just give up (which we saw with three players quitting).  Some of the weaker players would band together hoping to prolong the outcome and maybe some good fortune would come their way (Ion storms if playing VPAPlanets).

Cinema has a couple of poor examples "The Running Man"; "Death Race 2000" and "The Hunger Games" where you can draw an allegory. 

 I think the issue here is everyone was expecting a tyipical diplomatic planets outcome, partner up, get 250 and win. Doesn't really work that way when only one can win.....

2536 days, 0 hours, 10 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
It seems difficult to understand my words but I try for one last time: I was attacked by the two leading races in a way I couldn't fight against with my own fleet (MBR-towed Firceclouds coming from the territory of a third race who promised this won't happen). There is little to complain about. The strong ally to eat the runner-ups is a good strategy. But one of the attacking races - the Pirates - heavily backstabbed me in and I don't like this. As my chances to survive (not to mention having fun) were zero I decided to do my best to punish the attackers and especially the backstabber. The best way to do this was to give my ships and planets to the Lizards - the only race that could compete with Borg and Pirates in this game. I didn't know at this point that the Lizards would also quit. If I had known I would have given all ships to the Borg to help them winning against the backstabber.

To avoid a misunderstanding: I fully agree that it is an individual choice how to rate backstabbing in this game. It's out of question that it is a legal manoveur in a diplomatic game. On the other hand you play more than one game and you can regard all your games together as an even bigger diplomatic challange. This is where reputation gets important and I wanted to make my personal position about backstabbing very clear. I hope this helps my future allies to sleep well when they rely on trusting me.
2518 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
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2518 days, 12 hours, 53 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
^^ there is no need to discuss - the lizards will win anyway. 

btw dragon: i really fear the crystals by now - they are as bad 
as the borg, at least. don't let them survive !!

"Told them, did I!"
"Ignore Yoda, did they."

Borg, Privateers, Crystals must die!


2518 days, 11 hours, 8 minutes ago
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zelrik
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Looks like the Borg are finally starting to arm their biocides, I am guessing he ll launch his main attack once he reaches 1.5 million in military score.
2517 days, 16 hours, 7 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Who let the BORG out?Who, who, who, who, who?
2517 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The most recent and perhaps definitive move in the Taurus war:
Borg fleet has appeared in the extreme NE of the map.
Blame? Well, this guy most certainly had nothing to do with it.  

2517 days, 13 hours, 20 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
pictures or it didn't happen
2517 days, 12 hours, 56 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
As requested, beginning of the end.

2517 days, 4 hours, 30 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
at least some action ;)
2516 days, 13 hours, 45 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Has anyone told the borg what is going to happen to him when it is just him and the Privateer?

Tom
2516 days, 13 hours, 42 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
it looks like it is borg vs privs/robots , maybe even rebels and romulans? Only the Feds choosed to not choose sides in this conflict.

on a sidenote : borg have some lokis which will make it  "a bit" harder for the privateers
2515 days, 15 hours, 47 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
So I have a question.  Do I understand correctly that if you play in the championship match but don't end up in first place, you are wiped off the leaderboard?
2515 days, 15 hours, 13 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hello ECV,

there was - as far as I remember - never an official answer. The invitation to the match was:
(Start Quote)
"Dear Officer othrym,

You are hereby officially invited to participate in the second championship match as the supreme commander of The Privateer Bands.

Winning this championship match will give you the title of Emperor of the Echo Cluster. If you lose, you will lose all your achievement.

To join the game, go to http://planets.nu/games/38553 as The Privateer Bands.

The Planets Nu Team"
(End Quote)

"If you lose, you will lose all your achievement."
That could mean:
- all ones achievement from this game,
- all ones achievement from this race,
- all ones archievement form all races."

We have had a discussion in this thread at the beginning but there was no insight. Thus it is still suspenseful.

My idea was that one will loose the archiement in the race (but I hope not the campain Minerals and MC 8). Then the later players of that race have a better change to get the first one in the leaderboard and take part in the championship match.
2515 days, 15 hours, 11 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ah, well that, at least, makes it interesting.
2515 days, 14 hours, 34 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
On the leaderboard explanation page it says The ultimate achievement a player could make would be to become Emperor of the Echo Cluster in every Race.

I've been playing very actively on Nu for about 5 months and am not even close to the top 10 on any race.  By my calculations it will take me another year to get enough achievement/experience in any of the races I am playing even to get there, and at least another year to get close to the top.  And if more and more people play it will become even harder to rise to the top.

If you are at the top of the leaderboard and get to play in the championship game, your chances of winning are really not that good because you are pitted against 10 other players who probably know the game as well as you do, and because luck may not be on your side.  And if you lose (ie, not in first place), you have to repeat the entire process for that race, which at that point might take a few years.

(I am losing one of my games right now solely because at a critical moment early on, I had a gigantic meteor hit my token bovinoid planet to which I had exported oodles of clans and spent my resources on alchemy ships.  The meteor rendered the alchemy ships obsolete because of the minerals, and destroyed my main source of money and supplies for the homeworld for many turns.  One tiny event wrecked my entire game and there's no way for me to recover.  Like it or not, Planets is a strategy game with a rather hefty luck factor.  What if this happened in a championship game?  Set back 5 years because of one meteor strike...) 

To earn the "ultimate achievement" (all 11 races) could actually take an entire lifetime, even playing for hours every day.

I'm glad I paid my bill!
2515 days, 0 hours, 9 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
that's why it's called the "ultimate" achievement :)
2514 days, 15 hours, 58 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
*ROFL* That is true ...
2514 days, 11 hours, 29 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Props to the player that shoulders that mantle, it's not going to be me.
I don't even need enemy fire, theft, or ion storms to lose ships - apparently I can recycle my own cubes JUST FINE.
The "fix" button being right beside the "recycle" button and a @#$#^% cube got recycled. Would you believe it? I still feel this is a bug of some sort, several ships specifically did not do what I ordered them to but I can't argue with the time machine. God I miss echoview's "see next turn" option. 
Everything is healed through supplies henceforth.
2504 days, 16 hours, 25 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
TURN 75 SCORPIUS WAR: WEB MINE MONSTROSITY.
TURN 75 TAURUS: PARLEY.
2503 days, 20 hours, 24 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hm. I again have the feeling that some of my commands has been forgotten by the client. Anyone else has the same feeling?
2501 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
YUP! The client screwed up. Many of those moves were triple checked.
2501 days, 16 hours, 54 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
To the pirate lord of Taurus and entity known as "othrym". 
You have forsaken in this hour the bond of fellowship and honour proffered by the collective.
For your wilful commission of crime against the collective.  Said crimes being numerous in quantity and sinister in nature, the most egregious of these to be cited herewith:
Piracy,
Smuggling,
Manipulating your neighbours with explicit intent to betray,
Impersonating an officer of the Spanish Royal Navy,
Consorting with alien powers to aggrandize your own personal fleet at their expense, 
Impersonating a cleric of the Church of England,
Manipulating alien fleet to destroy borg property rather than using your own,
Sailing under false colors, arson, kidnapping, looting, poaching, brigandage,
Skulking in the dark, stealing whatever edges and corners of the map you can with sweet words,
Pilfering, depravity, depredation and general lawlessness,
For explicit breaking of the code,
And for these crimes you have been sentenced, on this day, assimilated or hung by the neck until dead.
May God have mercy on your soul.

2501 days, 15 hours, 49 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The final countdown!

It would be interesting to know if the vassals (Rebels for the Pirate, Feds for the Borg) still serve their masters or turned back into independent empires. If not, base destruction by RGA could get a decisive factor.
2501 days, 0 hours, 41 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Can you let us know who started? Borg or Priv?
I wonder which race would be still alive if noone had quit.

2500 days, 22 hours, 36 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Pirate towed robot fleet towards a far flung borg starbase and let the robot die for his cause, that was that dip seen in the military (I broke a bunch of robot toys too). After numerous "yes yes I'm positioning to rob the robot" which I knew wasn't going to happen 20+ turns ago due to some very very obvious probe maneuverings. Some of the most interesting diplomatic communiques will be found between me and othrym, some of it quite hilarious because my sarcasm does not translate well to german and vice-versa.  

It became readily apparent that the pirate was once again using his old tactics of "the borg is so big and nasty" (which we are) to manipulate the entire map to his advantage despite owning 2/5th of all the ships (which makes him big and nasty too). His military will now start to rise rapidly as he transitions to a wartime stance and will probably equal mine particularly as my fleet begins smashing into his bases. 
This game is becoming a mirror image of my previous encounter with this entity: http://planets.nu/games/25721.

However, to answer Emork's question, I think you misjudge the Taurus players with your label. Most have the cajones to step outside of the conflict, declare neutrality or a more indirect position in the rush and tide of war between superpowers. Robot + pirates combined are plenty strong enough on paper.

Skiv is happy as a clam, he just delayed his home sector being destroyed by an advancing swarm of cubes (now aimed at Othrym's homeworld) and may end up in 2nd place satisfying his own personal agenda I think. 
2500 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
DM, good luck for the battles to come. My personal guess was that unter your leadership the Borg will win if not eliminated early on. Skiv would make a honourable second for his early agressiveness.

I won't debate my judgement about certain occurences in this game but I now decided to not mention it any more. That's past and for all not directly involved it's not interesting anyway.
2499 days, 19 hours, 11 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
WOOt !
Just returning from a weekend trip one sometimes has to realize what all can happen in a short time ...

@Spacequad: In order to answer your question ... what exactly do you mean with "started"? After the "Great Drop Event" DM started at once to lay huge minefields that destroyed some of my ships and forced others to stop moving. "Good" move from his side as this prevents that I also head for some more abandon planets, as I did not have good sweepers in position. Then he started to destroy some of my ships by using his Loki fleet. Finally ... some turns ago he started to attack first planets from me.

Now the bad boy privateer has started to tow some robot ships to one borg planet.

@Emork: I do not believe that he will need much more luck or that there will be many battles ;) With the Great Drop Event he got access to (have a look at bonds map) about 4/11 (=> 182) of all planets without greater fight or a chance for the other races to interfere, many new cubes because of the crush landed ships, he has a nice Loki fleet and is omnipresent with his fireclouds. Thus the end of this game will come now fast as as the cubes have started to move. Nothing is as valuable as a good preparation.
2499 days, 16 hours, 12 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
"Don't dare impugn me honor boy! I agreed she'd go free, it was you who failed to specify when or where..."

You'll have a hard time convincing anyone either in game or out that the collective didn't hold fast to our commitment and agreement to your own rise to power. We crossed the ENTIRE cluster to attack the robot far removed without sending a single ship to any of your well known and much closer appendages. Of course what do we find in "robot" space? Pirates. Pirate planets, pirate ships towing our intended target of aggression, pirate ships suspiciously hovering cloaked over empty worlds in the direct path of cubes.  

Jack, Jack... did you not notice that be the same little island we made you governor of on our last little trip?  It'll be one pistol as before, and you can be the gentlemen and shoot Skiv and starve to death yourself.
2499 days, 15 hours, 39 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Bad luck DM ...
I would like to nominate you for the prize "Crowd Favorite" because of your good knowledge of quotations, but I have neither a vote in this poll nor will you qualify to receive the prize ...

But I wonder whether the people will ask themself, why you crossed the whole cluster in order to attack the robot from his back, if he was your direct neighbor after you have collected all that abandon Klingon planets?
Hm .... and you find in the "robot" space pirat ships and pirate planets and pirat ships above pirate planets? Oh yes, of cause ... that qualifies that space of cause as "robot" space.
I am glad that our ships have not that borgic compass and navigation systems and that our sensor officiers do not interpret the data like this.


2496 days, 20 hours, 43 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ok guys, for pure entertainment's sake to liven up the forum and because I often think othrym was born on the moon let's get some opinions from the public.

Let's say someone, we know who, proposes "assistance and cooperation to chase away the other races".
Does this mean: "I am allowed to tow enemy robot ships towards your bases to break them" and by them he means both the robot ships and your base incidentally.
Because, frankly, I'm not convinced. Opinions please.
2496 days, 20 hours, 38 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
you lack faith my friend :P
2496 days, 19 hours, 27 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I can hardly believe this question is serious, DM! I know that you're not a countryside guy on his first day in the big city.

"assistance and cooperation to chase away the other races" is an absolutly unambigous statement.
Maybe this gets clear if reword it like this:  "Stupid, help me to win and I will kick you in the ass in return".

You didn't complain when you took advantage of similar interpretations (which I don't mention any more) so … ;)
2496 days, 16 hours, 45 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
So I think the answer to DM's question is yes?

It actually sounds like a good tactic.  I suppose he is managing to do it without losing his Meteors also?

I'm just wondering if the Pirate can cram the queue and kill fireclouds without losing his own material ... similarly I wonder how the Borg will take Privateer planets and bases without being severely robbed.

We should place bets with odds like in horse racing.
2496 days, 14 hours, 16 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well ... of cause privateers are born on moons or ships and only seldom on planets ...

I do not know whether it is the right time to ask the audiance as there may be missed some facts in the presentation. But ok, then let me add some facts to DMs story. (Also adding some earlier mentioned facts in order to have a summary ...)

Let us say two races agree to "assistance and cooperation to chase away the other races" some time ago when they realize that there is a great alliance of 3 to 4 races to conquer the cluster.
The assistance worked well but had suddenly an unexpected result. Many races left the custer and crush landed their ships. The remaining races build many new ships and expecially the warships races build new and strong warships they would else not have build without fights and loosing own ships. This shifts the balance between our above mentioned races.

The stronger one suddenly broke all safe passage agreements and layed many additional and great minefields in order to prevent that the other gathers abandon planets. Some ships explode in the new minefields and missing friendly codes and a dozen with bad beam weapons where trapped.
But the strong one said ... "that is no break of the agreement ... that is only for my protection ... look at other places for other races ..."

Then the stronger one started to use his fleet of Loki to decloak the ships of the one with the weaker warships and destroy them on sight. Again the words "that is no break of the agreement .... that is only for my proctection ... i fear that you could change your mind and rob me ..."

Again some months passed the cluster. Then the omnipresent one with his fleet of strong warships, Loki and network of chunnels starts to attack planets of the one with the weak uncloaked ships ... "that is no break of the agreement ... i did not know that this planets has been your planets ... you know, I always attack without scouting or just waiting a turn in the orbit in order to decide whether i attack or not ... you know, if i arrive with my fleet of 20 warships with 20.000 kt fuel, it could be that there is one of your ships that robs all my fuel ... and look there is a proof ... at your last planet I conquered there was indeed one of your ships in the orbit. That is intent ..."

And then ... the one with the weaker ships ... suddenly towed some robot ships to a starbase of the stronger one. The result was a destroyed but rebuildable starbase, two destroyed robot ships and a new ship for the stronger one at one of his starbases. And again there was that voice, but the words sound different ... "YOU have broken the agreement ..."

But of cause - as we all know - that is only a fictive story ....

But if we take this story ... what do you think ... if the one side says, that laying minefields, destroying ships and conquering planets of the "agreement" partner is not breaking the clause
"assistance and cooperation to chase away the other races"
is the action "towing enemy ships toward ones base to break them" a break ???

2496 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I love the championship games. Very tricksey, they are. You can't trust them, Gollum. The hobbitses are tricksey!
2496 days, 13 hours, 37 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
@Tom: But they are very exhausting after all. ;)
2496 days, 13 hours, 5 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well that's a nice story but it's not the real story now is it othrym? 

A great shift happens many players leave the game - the borg, in position of authority and strength, are advised to kill off the pirate by all. However the pirate has been up to that point roughly honourable, betraying us only once to the crystal in a (successful) attempt to get his knife in deeper.
The borg, stupidly honourable, honour the initial agreement written and proffered by the pirate, and would continue to support the pirate in his endeavours against the remaining races rather than instantly betray. However the need for alliance has passed, and we correctly as it would seem, fear the knife in the back.
It becomes apparent, despite numerous claims to the contrary, that the pirate has no intention of attacking any of his neighbours or anyone else on the map for that matter, he wants to abuse them and their specific racial abilities against the borg, to make himself emperor through manipulation.
The pirate somehow, through his forked tongue, manages to convince the federation to not trade with the borg any further. How, to this day, the worm hamstrung my only ally is still unclear.  
 
The borg non-aggression treaty with the robot runs out, and the borg march on the robot. What do we find deep in robot territory? Pirates. Of course.
There's a very long string of messages about "the definition of "rob" " and how it's now fair for the pirate to "rob" my ships but not "tow-capture" them despite the agreement saying in black and white "no robbing". Very funny to read but marginally insane. 
The borg smash a cloaked MBR hovering over an empty world in the direct path of cubes. The pirate now feeling very desperate that the game is slipping away from him, but not quite ready to launch his major attack on borg soil, urges the rebel to not attack the romulans, and instead attack the big bad borg. The rebel then declares war on the borg.
To the pirate's surprise,  the rebel in fact has balls of steel and doesn't want an emperor built out of his own sweat and blood, suddenly decides to break with his pirate oppressor. Seriously, honestly, respect.
The pirate then tows robot fleet to borg base, breaking the agreement in its totality, but now claims that it's a "re-buildable base", that he's still offering "assistance and cooperation to chase away the other races", the robot lost 2 warships, so he's in fact "helping" me.

Jack, Jack, you're easy to figure out. You're dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you want to watch out for, 'cause you can never predict if they're going to do something incredibly stupid.

Now where be that homeworld of yours? Can you paint a big sign on it with robotic minefields like the others? 
2495 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
> betraying us only once to the crystal in a (successful) attempt

Hm? Did I crossed a red traffic light in borg space? Or just another dream?

> It becomes apparent, ... that the pirate has no intention of attacking any of his neighbours

Just like the borg. The borg was collecting abandon planets from the Klingon, Empire and Colonies ... the privateer was collecting abandon Crystal planets after sweeping all the web mines.

Are you huffy that not everyone reacts at once to your wishes? You admit that you have a non aggression pact with the robot ... why should I not also take the time to collect planets.

> What do we find deep in robot territory? Pirates. Of course.

*LOL* You came from the other side of the cluster and not from your own formerly Klingon "zone"... and you did know that i have in this area planets. Was this indeed such a great surprize that I am still in an area, where I have been 30+ turns before?


> There's a very long string of messages about "the definition of "rob" " ... Very funny to read but marginally insane.

As I had to admit - after I have asked a linguist - that I just have translated that what I wanted to say in the wrong way into english. If you need it for yourself to mock a not perfect and fluent english from non native speakers... well ok, be happy.
The word "rob" can be translated to german in many different way ... on the one hand e.g. "to steal the object" => german:"rauben" and on the other hand "to steal something out of the object" => german:"ausrauben". Thus "to rob a ship" can mean "to take a ship away" but also "to steal stuff out of a ship". When I know asked my translator programm  it indeed found no translation for the word i have used: "shiprobbing". Maybe it even does not exists? What can other native speakers say??

The meaning that I intended was that no parties takes away a ship by any means like tow.capture, x-ray/g-bomb, force surrender at starbases etc....

But I will learn from this. Next agreements i will write in german, than I offer my own translation but at the end there will be the legal notice that binding is only the german version....


> The borg smash a cloaked MBR hovering over an empty world in the direct path of cubes

Correction: colonized world of the privateer. Yes indeed ... I have ships at my planets ... in an area where I have planets 30+ turns before ...

Etc. pp. and so on ...

Hey ... no problem ... that is a wargame after all ... just like chess but only a bit more complex....
But please do not try to tell me, that a bilateral cooperation agreement gives you the right to attack planets and ships from your agreement partner, while it is an act of war, if the other tows some ships. That is laughable.
2495 days, 8 hours, 50 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
While we're "airing the dirty laundry", the "bilateral cooperation agreement" was about as bilateral as Kim Jong Il. It was almost as hard as getting an act of congress in the U.S.A. to get you to participate in the flank pressure on the crystal and by that you committed just one ship while the remainder of your fleet sat in dry dock safe and sound. Don't deny you had placated the crystal the entire time. I lost fireclouds because you didn't want to rob when I knew a high probability of cloakers, I lost probes because you didn't want to scout the planets to set up the minefield control and I lost a frigging cube due to bug to save a damn MBR. To which of course the reply was "And whether it is a MBR or a Cube ... there is the ship limit and thus both ships similar value." .... .... !
Even the klingon checkmate was like pulling teeth.

The non-aggression with the robot was from way way back in time has nothing to do with current events. And tell it like it is, you charged for the empire planets straight into advancing cubes fore-warned set to KILL and the robot was in point of fact attacked from both sides. Further fact checking: that was not a "colonized" planet it was one lone pirate sitting on an empty cold rock with a cloaked MBR positioned to snag a wayward cube. I really, really doubt that MBR was sunbathing friend,  it's getting a little thick at this point to think I was "out to get you" with 2 MBR explosions the entire game. I don't think you'll convince anyone in or out of game.

I'm not mocking your english, which is quite good for a non-native speaker. I'm mocking the idea that you could hit a button called "rob" and somehow construe that to not be "robbing". The pirate's plan, while ostensibly trying to maintain peace with me, was that it was "ok" to "rob" my ships and leave them stranded in robot space, but "not ok" to "tow capture" them.

These were word for word from othrym the terms of the agreement:
- No planets or bases in my backland
- No shiprobbing or trading
- But assistance and cooperation to chase away the other races

Somehow this was supposed to mean: You can't lay mines on your or enemy territory. Pirate gets first pick of all planets. Don't set PE=pirate or Kill mission. Pirate gets to use "rob mission" on your ships. And pirate gets to tow robot warships towards your starbases! FOR REAL?!

I agree with your next plan, have a secret legal document in a foreign language and make people sign on the dotted line. Brilliant! 

Barbossa: So you expect to leave me standing on some beach with nothing but a name and your word it's the one I need and watch you sail away on my ship?
Jack: No. I expect to leave you standing on some beach with absolutely no name at all, watching me sail away on *my* ship, and then I'll shout the name back to you. Savvy?

Barbossa: But that still leaves us with the problem of me standing on some beach with naught but a name and your word it's the one I need.

So when does rear-admiral Skiv grow a pair of balls and demand you give him say 40 warships for trying so hard to save your scrawny neck? You have quite some ship capital there to spend friend. Or does that not "fit your plan"? It would suck if he would you know, "accidentally" forget to lay mines for you. Take what you can, give nothing back! YAR!  
2494 days, 19 hours, 26 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
2494 days, 19 hours, 14 minutes ago
Profile Image
ronnle robot
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Is that Bird getting ready to use "the Crane Technique" from the original Karate Kid movie to knock out the opponent?

If that is so, the other players best be ware, because the thing about the Crane Technique is, in the words of Mr Miyagi: "If done right, no can defense!"
2493 days, 16 hours, 39 minutes ago
View challengespaceyard's profile
challengespaceyard
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
othrym: Hm. I again have the feeling that some of my commands has been forgotten by the client.

dungeonmaster: YUP! The client screwed up. Many of those moves were triple checked.

May I ask what security suite you are using? Please see my last post (starts with based solely...) in the topic Validation Debugging.

By keeping our posts in that thread, we keep the continuity of that issue together.
2492 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

hah! reading that i remember me writing to my fellow lizard player to just sit and wait.
and now what do we hear? the all feared superpowerful freakyfrightening playerchasing
privateer-cyborg alliance is broken.

hahaha!
2492 days, 0 hours, 39 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Thin Lizzy, don't mix up cause and effect. The Pirate-Borg-alliance ended because all dangerous enemies are gone and the duell started.
2491 days, 22 hours, 8 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Sometimes, in all honesty, I have to say, I wonder why I bother trying so hard when this game is so very filled with bugs and random crap.
My biocides should win 70% of the time against bases and it feels like it's less than 50%.
An instrumentality blew up a fully stated BORG starbase at goddamn less than 5% chance, it's ridiculous.
Major moves failed as well. WTF. I grow tired of this. I can't help but play my turn late before hostrun and every single time it's like rolling the dice. 
2491 days, 21 hours, 55 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Seriously Joshua, we need some way of querying the host to see the next turn, like the old echoview "see next turn" where the ship moves and chunnels and tows are displayed. Like an inverse time machine. What we have client-side is NOT happening and it's very very frustrating. I'm losing to the host more than my opponents right now.
2489 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi Joshua, ship #262 is bugged and not responding to orders. This is several turns in a row now.
2489 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Are you sure it doesn't have a treacherous Privateer spy on board convincing the crew to override your orders? :)
2489 days, 18 hours, 18 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yes I am quite sure, it's doing it's level best to become a pirate donation however. Joshua is looking into it.
2489 days, 8 hours, 10 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Just to clarify, as I know there have been a few questions. The win condition for the championship matches is 250 planets. Yes, actually 250 planets. Half the map.  
2489 days, 4 hours, 18 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Real? Would you wonder if I would say that I have assumed that it is like in the other normal games 200 as win condition without ally? I know that there always was written 250 in the game description, but this has been at the start of the game in every game as this has not be updated when the new rules came active (200 solo win, 250 1 ally win, ....)
2483 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi Joshua, it's physically impossible for me to complete another massive borg turn in the coming 13 hours. We really need the host to simply skip a turn, this has thrown my already tight schedule out of whack. Could you please do this? I doubt the remaining players would object.

Also, at present every single time I click the diplomacy tab I get the following:
"A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. You can stop the script now, or you can continue to see if the script will complete.
Script: http://play.planets.nu/lib/jquery.min.js:3 "

and after I send a message:
"Script: http://play.planets.nu/lib/jquery.min.js:6 "

I believe I am getting/sending incomplete messages and/or they are not arriving/sending at all. The message system often hangs, sometimes for minutes at a time and I believe message arrival are delayed due to fragmentary conversation.
2483 days, 16 hours, 25 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'm in exactly the same situation in game 43082 – I'm a Privateer with 110 ships ...  the host just ran and I have 15 hours to finish it!!  Ack!
2483 days, 16 hours, 1 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
agreed, the next host is way too soon.
2483 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes ago
View julius's profile
julius
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I agree that the next host should be skipped, haven't got much to do on my side but I can imagine what it would be like for some of the other players
2483 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes ago
View joshua's profile
joshua
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I moved out host a couple of days.
2483 days, 15 hours, 49 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
thanks, i think it will be good for most of the players
2483 days, 15 hours, 44 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Thx a bunch Joshua! That will give enough time to get back to a normal schedule for myself.
2483 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Much appreciated!
2450 days, 21 hours, 33 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Swear faith to me and you shall have mercy! As emperor I will need battlelords such as you.
2449 days, 13 hours, 44 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The Feds are fine with ending the game as suggested by the Borg
2447 days, 14 hours, 37 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
2447 days, 13 hours, 53 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
othrym,

Unless you are playing in a Team game, there are only 2 cheats:

1. Hacking the program
2. Multiple ID's of 1 player in same game

Other than that, anything goes in a multi-player game. And, anything goes until the game is officially over.

Frankly, I think the Borg is laughing as he reads your posts. He is probably hoping to demoralize you so you don't play your best.

The game is equal parts strategy, diplomacy, and economics.

In a multi-player game with only one winner, expect EVERY move to benefit the person who enters the order.

In a multi-player game with only 1 winner, expect:

1. Anyone who cooperates with you to only do things that benefit them.

2. ANYTHING that can happen to possibly happen. "I wasn't expecting . . ." = "I failed to properly prepare for . . ."

It appears that the Borg heavily defeated you in the diplomacy arena and has parlayed that victory into big lead in economics.

You played an inferior game than the borg.

1. You allowed the borg to amass more large carriers than you.
2. You allowed the borg to amass a larger economy.
3. You allowed the borg to amass a greater mine laying/sweeping capability.

According to game rules, the borg is allowed to stab you. According to the rules, the borg is allowed to say it was your fault. According to the rules, the borg is allowed to win and laugh at you after he does those things.

The Privateer motto should be: (and all other players)



2447 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
"Other than that, anything goes in a multi-player game. And, anything goes until the game is officially over."
Very true mjs!
I would have appreciated if you had remind your brothers about this earlier. I am convinced bond would have stopped DM by now.

Anyway, DM´s reign won´t last long. There is only one race to rule then all. One race that already feels like our RL governments; slow but can not be stopped, inefficient in resource handling, covering every part of life (and space) and has a very high tax on fuel. :P

2447 days, 2 hours, 8 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
mjs68508,

what do you want to tell me if you does not tell me more then I may know myself? What is the intent of your message? What posts of myself are you referring to?

Of cause planets is a game consisting of strategy, diplomacy, and economics. And of cause - if one player wins - all other players have their contribution in the win of that one.

From my point of you I have done all I can to win this game. Of cause afterwards I have to realize that I have made some actions that were not as good as expected ;) But well, if I would have realized other plans, I may have now other problems ...

Othrym

PS: And please differ between the different levels of commuication in games like this. There is the player level, the in-game roleplaying level and as the messages in this forum are mixed, some more levels between ;) I think it was Emork who also wrote something about this topic before.
2446 days, 22 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I think like most prize fighters and men who go to war you inevitably respect your opponents. You may often want to in-person strangle and kill them - and I'm quite sure there are/were players in Taurus who  would want to do the same to me and vice-versa - but ultimately you don't "laugh" or denigrate them. In this sort of winner takes all high stakes adventure you will find the best and the worst in all people with every shade in between. I have had to do things towards victory that I am not proud of. It is "just a game" but I am not privately "laughing" at anyone in this game because I fully realize how seriously every player approached it.

You will have an emperor very soon.
2446 days, 22 hours, 5 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Well spoken, DM.
2446 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Proud commanders of the Taurus Campain, i created that ribbon below for your achiements.

2446 days, 15 hours, 29 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
>>And please differ between the different levels of commuication in games like this. There is the player level, the in-game roleplaying level and as the messages in this forum are mixed, some more levels between

Great point Othrym.  It's really hard to distinguish sometimes.  I know I've been guilty of being "in character" in the forum and ended up hurting someone's feelings, and vice versa.  Can we ruthlessly attack/deceive/backstab one another in the game and disagree with their ways of playing, yet at the end of the day remain friends?

This is a fascinating dichotomy, because this is a war game.  But at the other end of the cable is actually another human being who is also playing a war game for their own entertainment and intellectual stimulation.
2446 days, 14 hours, 36 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Cool ribbon, spacesquad! Very nice! Joshua should make you the official tailer of the emperor matches.
2443 days, 21 hours, 58 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Happy 100. turn ...
2437 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Now, as this game is coming to an end, it is time for another story.
Let us begin in the times when suddenly Klingons, Crystals, Empire,
Colonies and finally Lizards left the cluster ... Silence in the cluster. The crush landing of many many ships fuels the starbases of the remaining
races. The cyborg and the privateers got most new ships, the privateer
nice and fast MBR, the cyborg cubes... many cubes, without loosing any
cube against enemy ships. For many turns there was no further explosion of any ship hull in the
cluster. Or nearly no explosion. Borgic mine fields start to cover the
abandon regions from the Klingons and the Empire. In this zones many
privateer ships with bad beams had to stop moving, left no chance to
head for this planets and angry ship captains running up and down on
the ship bridge. In other zones Bird Men and the Robot head toward the Lizard zone while
Bird Men, Rebel and Privateer start also to hunt for the still good web
mines protected crystal planets. ... Peaceful times in the cluster. Peaceful? Rumors spread about a heavy dispute between bird men and
privateer about a not returned gorbie that was only given for ship
repair. The privateer in return declined the return of given resolutes.
Dark clouds return to the peaceful cluster. Nevertheless no war between this nations started. But the bird men
does not come to a rest. Now many Rebel rushs cruise in their direct
south. Meanwhile observers on the privateers homeworld report about a big
moaning from direction of the palast, when the scouts notify that at
least four formerly Federal Loki has been seen under the borg flag. The Rebel ships in the south of the Bird Men suddenly stop the advance
and return. Then the war really returned to the cluster when the Borg start to
attack the first Robot planets. After some months it looks like the
privateer joined the war as some privateer ships towed some robot
carrier toward an cyborg starbase. Two carriers got destroyed before
the starbase resigned. Momentarily most of the cubes in the robot space disappears, leaving
only some fireclouds behind. Chunnels at the borg privateer border
opened and released the main part of the cubic fleet, which starts to
head toward the privateer homezone. Suddenly several giantic robotic mine fields reinforced the small
privateer mine fields and sweeped the protective mine fields of the
borg around their homezone. Fast privateer ships head toward the borg
homezone. Meanwhile an ion storm decloak a small fleet of privateer ships under
the flag of the bird men. Obviously some tow drop chunnel maneuvers
have teleported this waiting ships away from privateer planets that
are under the attack of the cubic armada. What were they waiting for?
Fireclouds? Loki? Who knows, maybe they were only on vacation. After the first signs of a greater alliance against the borgic threat,
soon also first signs of strange bad luck also appears. Cloaked bird
men ship send position signals from firecloud locations but no ship
got towed. Also a request for the assistance of a single carrier ship at the southern
frontiers got declined. Again a great moaning has been heard on the privateer homeworld, when
the privateer ship captains that where ordered to hand over their cloaking
ships to the Rebel commanders in order to head toward the borg homezone
and starbases report that the Rebel suddenly declared first war against
the cyborg and then against the privateer. After some failed tries to cloak intercept loki class ships that always
move in warp wells or get chunneled in or out, and without either bird
men loki capture ships or cloaked Rebel RGA ships over borgic starbases,
the leader of the privateers ordered close to the edge of insanity all
ships to leave the planets and starbases unprotected and just stay out
of reach of Loki ships in the midspace. Guerilla war was announced. Rumors also tell the story, that the leader of the privateers has hold
on his flagship a great party for all his analyists that have told him,
that he must only reach 200 planets to get the control over the cluster.
As the party was a real great one it took place fighter start airlock.
Later the organizers of the party has been criticized because of a
technical error ... While the ships of the privateers start to leave the privateers planets
unprotected the cubes miss the privateer homeworld only by a feint.
Then - suddenly again like some months before - the borgic armada
disapears from this battle field. Again only leaving some fireclouds
behind. Short rest... The privateers start to conquer the lost planets back and reinforced
the whole homezone with robotic minefields. While the borgs have
disapeared the Rebel ships head toward the privateer planets and
attack them. First privateer ships started toward the Rebel planets. Meanwhile repaired cubes apeared back at the left behind fireclouds
in the Robotic area and again started their destructive work. Just at the moment, when the privateers started to capture first
rebel ships, the rebel leader ordered the crush landing of the rebel
ships ... Again many new cubes have been build. New rumors spread the cluster, that first bird men cubes and borgic
Darkwings have been seen ...
2437 days, 18 hours, 29 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Everybody knows the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows the boat is leaking
Everybody knows the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died
Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you've been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you've been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

And everybody knows that the plague is coming
Everybody knows that its moving fast
And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
Everybody knows its coming apart
Take one last look at this sacred heart
Before it blows
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
2437 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I was part of the reason why this game degenerated. So I'm very glad to hear that the first Emperor will be a player who really deserves it. Still too early for congratulations but it doesn't seem that the Borg train could be stopped.
2437 days, 18 hours, 11 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
DM, is this a song? In germany there again youtube told me that they may not show us the song because of copyright reasons. Please send the title, maybe i find it on my own.
2437 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Everybody knows everybody knows, also here in remote germany.
Singing Borgs... looks like they are in a good mood.
2437 days, 17 hours, 59 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
It is a song, by Leonard Cohen without doubt the most gifted song writer my country has ever produced.
The title is "everybody knows" and the album is "I'm your man".

The borg train cannot be stopped. The game is for all intents and purposes over and we are merely waiting for me to collect planets, which will be very very fast in VGA terms.

2437 days, 17 hours, 25 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Ok, found it thanx ;) Nice background music for the next couple of turns ;)

Emork, there is no more doubt that the borg cannot be stopped any more.

We have our 1st Emperor and his name is Dungeonmaster. Grats! Good work done.

There was a try to forge a last great alliance to chance this fate but after all it does not work.
2437 days, 16 hours, 58 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Holy cow, this guy has been around forever and has written a lot of great songs. 

I am amazed I have never heard of him before. Thanks for sharing.

Tom
2437 days, 16 hours, 53 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
The First Great Alliance failed in Scorpius vs the Crystals and the results were the crowning of that emperor, as well (quite a bit later).

Current and future champions, it is a single player win, but you must cooperate to kill the dangerous players (and positions) or you will be devoured one by one.

Stand together or die alone!

General Kota
2437 days, 16 hours, 36 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I deeply thank you for your congratulations othrym and I realize how difficult your concession was, which happened in game some turns ago now.

Before people grow harsh towards your decisions, both diplomatic and strategic I believe it's essential to highlight your successes which have been many and multi-fold in ways that perhaps only you and I truly understand.

Through his actions and his direction othrym rid Taurus cluster of the klingons, the crystals, the lizards leaving only the federation alive in Taurus as one of his traditional counter-races. For aspiring pirate commanders in championship games you must, must, realize how impressive that is. He started beside none of them. From a purely strategic perspective this is master stroke.
Furthermore othrym has lost maybe only 10 ships in the entire game, probably under 10 though only he knows the exact count. I have made considerably more mistakes (some of those are bugs, many are true mistakes). This is staggeringly careful play and frankly I cannot match it.
Finally your use of ambiguous diplomacy is second to none. Yes it came back to bite you, in this game quite hard, but it's irrespective extremely hard to read you. My own diplomacy is several layers removed from yours.  
You're definitely amongst the top 5 players on NU without a shadow of a doubt.

I would love to discuss all players, the full unfolding of events and my own underlying strategy but I would like the game to end before doing so. 

Joshua out of curiosity do I have to get 250 or can we end a championship game by vote? 
2437 days, 16 hours, 27 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Great that you like it Tom! I will pepper my final thoughts on Taurus with the music I enjoy listening to while playing planets. I find most hardcore strategy players are of the same breed and often enjoy the same music. You have probably heard Cohen many times before without knowing it since he's one of the most re-sung songwriters on the planet. You have to appreciate poetry to really enjoy him, since his own voice is well, gravel. However when re-sung with a real voice, oh my, hallelujah.
2437 days, 11 hours, 36 minutes ago
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silvanos
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
What about Rush?
2437 days, 5 hours, 45 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
"New rumors spread the cluster, that first bird men cubes and borgic Darkwings have been seen ..." 

dungeonmaster, haven't found out exactly how the cloaking thingie works yet? ;)
2437 days, 5 hours, 11 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Can I get another one? It was supposed to hit outside edge of the warpwell, not the inside. Sigh... You wouldn't guess I can play a lean mean pirate would you? That was like barely 4 turns old too, my bribes really should have included the extended Tal Shiar warranty plan... Next time...
2437 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
> You wouldn't guess I can play a lean mean pirate would you?

So no Birds or Privs next DM?
You're not going for The Ultimate Achievement?

Here's some music for your final turns, impressive is also the original Borg-shirt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MDlMdu2gjw
2433 days, 16 hours, 17 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

(can't agree more with the "ambiguous pirate diplomacy" remark by DM)
2433 days, 13 hours, 0 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
So Jkovalainen, what were the terms of the "carve up the remainder of the lizard fleet?" Did I guess correctly that it was all for pirate none for bird?

There's a very long series of diplomatic messages if anyone takes the time to read them, in which othrym and I discuss more or less in character as jack sparrow and barbossa. Some of it quite hilarious because neither of us really understand each other's sarcasm vs. the truth, but at the same time we both know what's going to happen next (none of it in Jack's favour). So I had an edge, in that I had dealt with the pirate lord othrym before though I can't claim I ever really understood him completely.
At several points he scared me with his own insight into my moves and motivations, and I mean really scared me that he could read me that well.

On my own diplomatic end an admission of the hardest decision I had to make towards emperor: accepting the pirate surrender and forsaking the rebel. I had no agreement, either explicit or implied with Julius, no trade or treaty and I hadn't given my word on anything. It was nonetheless a very hard decision to make because Julius did me a great favour in breaking with the pirate when he did and pushing the game towards conclusion. Although we kept most of our personal communication outside of the diplomatic logs I realize looking through them that there is still quite a bit of recorded communication. othrym appealed to me on a personal level and I knew that on a nation state level I had not done as much damage as I wanted to, but the surrender of your main opponent should be accepted on any level. So it was done, though after much much deliberation you should now know Julius. That was not an easy decision, it was never intended as a backstab, though it may have appeared as such. 

Looking at the map I want to be done in 3 turns. Then we can freely discuss all the insanity in this game.
Skiv have you had enough yet? I publicly offer you single combat, no more borg tricks just ship on ship till the last one stands.
2429 days, 22 hours, 45 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi Julius,

do not drop. Game will be end soon thus it makes no sense to drop now.

Othrym
2423 days, 23 hours, 55 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
2423 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
:)))

jkovalainen, you surely will get my vote for the most entertaining participant.
 
2423 days, 23 hours, 26 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
That`s sure ;)
2423 days, 20 hours, 48 minutes ago
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star72066
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

This game was over the moment the Privateer allied with the Borg. It seems DM's biggest asset, aside from the Borg race, is a golden tongue. How you pulled that off, is nothing short of amazing. ;-D

Well done DM !! - Now only if my bet on you paid more than 1:5. Odds can never dictate logic - A win is a win. Cha-Ching! (Maybe we will get to bet actual AP's some day)

If the audiance gets a vote - JK posts were LOL.+1

The old adage "Kill the Borg" was not heeded and the results were predictable. DM is a master Borg - what did you believe would happen...... ;-O Assimilation and the Firecloud underestimated yet again.

2423 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I disagree star, the most important thing you need to know is how to name your ships. Bacon, clearly, never loses. As a Canadian bacon holds a special place in our hearts. When the Brits announced a worldwide bacon shortage earlier this year, our society nearly had a heart attack - a bacon induced heart attack, yes there's irony there. They were lying of course, ambiguous diplomacy again, we nearly declared war.

WHERE'S MY COUNTDOWN!? 250 planets baby! And you made me fight like 80+ starbases for it!
I'm hoping Joshua agrees that after Monday's turn it's over, Skiv and I are going to have our farewell to Taurus battle. The bacon dispute has ended. There are 50+ cubes. There's little left really.
I want to freely and openly discuss Taurus but I won't do so until the last salvo is fired and I have the title.
2423 days, 20 hours, 5 minutes ago
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star72066
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

DUNGEONMASTER...

and supreme commander! 

Can't wait for the synopsis.

2423 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
That's EMPEROR to you.

Jkovalainen is hereby appointed my bacon king.
2423 days, 18 hours, 9 minutes ago
View challengespaceyard's profile
challengespaceyard
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I can't wait to start building a beautiful recording of this match.
2423 days, 15 hours, 12 minutes ago
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star72066
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
MJS writes...
"1. Anyone who cooperates with you to only do things that benefit them."
I can't believe that any outsider, like myself, that just read this entire folder for the first time could believe that this is what transpired in this championship match.
This is no discredit to the Emperor, after reading all of this, I can see not one move that he made that directly sabotaged his chances of victory in any way. I wish I could say that for many others.
My respect and Kudos to the Bird/Robot/Rebel/Fed players who seemed to make the most of a tilted environment, without quitting. Especially the Bird, who kept a sense of humor through it all that turned out to be the best reading this folder had to offer.
It would have been nice to see a more genuine effort by some to what MJS wrote...
"1. Anyone who cooperates with you to only do things that benefit them."
I don't honestly believe we saw that in this game.
What happened in this game goes beyond anything most of us would call as being honorable or keeping in the spirit of "one winner" and "doing whats best for your own races chance at winning."
The Lizard/Crystal/Empire - Played a "Team Style" three  man alliance that had zero fear of backstabbing, revoking, or cancellation of any alliance/agreement. The Empire gave away his Gorbie's as if they were christmas presents for his allies. It was obvious very early that these three had no fears from each other. This is a dynamic not shared by the "innocents" who could not have started this game even remotely believing a race would pillage themselves for the betterment of his friends. Call it legal, say you have to expect such, say whatever you will in defense of this, but I can't view it as anything but "completely not in the spirit of what we would hope this game to be".
The Privateer - Nobody will convince me that a Master Privateer didn't write his own death and others deaths by aiding the Borg to the extent that he did. He had to know what it meant, yet he did it anyway. You can buy the balance theory/defense if you like, I'll remain skeptical until we can open up the game turns and see exactly the extent of his cooporation and when it began and ended.. Was it ignorance? CIrcumstances? Balance ? What Privateer had it any better, than a Rebel and a Borg neighbor to pick clean. His involvment in the Borg victory seems completely illogical on the surface, he may yet be vindicated but it is hard for me to buy into. The one player that could have changed this game, chose to aid the Borg into Fascist space, all knowing that more assimilated planets meant his own end and the end of everyone else. This is just complete incompetence or collusion to the point of fault. This is what it smells on the surface and there may indeed be other unknown facts, we'll all see soon enough.
The Quitting and Mass Ship recycling/colonization and Sending ships to the Abyss - The Lizard/Crystal/Empire ruined this game in every way possible. On top of the initial disgrace, the disgrace of the Starwarriors, and the disgrace of yourselves, you chose to put an exclamation point on it. Well done.
I'm not making this post for any other reason than I hope to play in this game one day and I hope this entire community will take a lesson from this game in that honor is more important than winning. It is said there are no rules but 1. Not Hacking 2. Not playing two races in this game and while that may be the case on paper, I believe there is an unwritten set of rules, that begs for something more than Taurus.
I hope I'm wrong, and there is more to all of this that we will all be enlightened by when this game ends. I hope.
On the surface, this is what we see....this is what you presented to us, in this folder.
Thank the Star Cluster Gods for JK - The Bird.
2423 days, 12 hours, 38 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
It looks as if  now, as the first championship game comes to an end, there are now some modifications at the leaderboard on the road.


2423 days, 12 hours, 22 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I want to discuss this game! I'm submitting my turn early tonight, lets get it over with! I'll answer star now at least in part.

Star, my personal opinion is that othrym made 1 mistake the entire game. Just 1. I would say he probably knows exactly what I will describe as his mistake. He played an excellent game and may very well end up being the top pirate showing in all championship matches to come, we will watch and see. Seriously do not doubt othrym, he will kill 99.9% of the players out there.

You are a seasoned and good commander star72066 but the championship games are the big leagues and your planning must be global in reach. If I offer you the following: a gorbie, SSD, loki enhanced tight nit lizard - crystal - empire alliance. Yes you eat the borg. You eat the rebel and you eat them early so they have few big ships and by corollary you too, have few big ships. You take 150 planets. What then? You are left with classic pirate counter-races. Who then are you going to call? The colonies? The federation? There are webs on both sides of the map, all sides in fact. There are SSD, ground attack, cloakers and de-cloakers, webs and big ships. Options? 
What force exists in VGA planets that a pirate can summon that stands even a shred of a chance against a lizard-crystal-empire alliance? Othrym essentially had no choice. Even if I were on the complete other side of the map, he's going to ring up his pal the BORG. Yes, he summoned a demon he ultimately could not control, even that I'm sure he will tell you is not directly his fault.
Think about it star.
2423 days, 12 hours, 14 minutes ago
View ecatoncheires's profile
ecatoncheires
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(subscribing)
2423 days, 12 hours, 12 minutes ago
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fruchtquake
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it has been said before. the game was over when it became public that crystals/lizards/empire were allied. any chance of making this game being worth a Championship Match was gone.
2423 days, 11 hours, 38 minutes ago
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emork the lizard king
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I don't agree, Fruchtquake. My Klingon troops were short before seriously damaging the Evil Empire. At this point the game could have went on quite balanced for a while.
Then I got mad about DM because he insisted on taking my planets for peace. Hey, it was me fighting against EE & Crystals! So I decided to totally change my strategy, gave up the war against the EE and do as much havoc to the Borg as possible. Another reason for this was that it has become obvious that the Borg had no enemy and will simply win. Well, it was to my big surprise that the EE didn't want revenge but cooperation when I revealed my plan.

But then things happened that completely changed the game again. I have to admit that it was a good move of Pirat&Borg to focus on me. I had Gorbies and SSDs at this time and in the long run I would have become a force which can't be attacked without losing a significant number of ships. Of course, if I had known that the Lizard will also quit I had stayed in the game and played the "go away or I give ALL to the other" card either against Othrym or DM. Anyway, should I get another invitation I'm prepared better and won't resign. It was a bit too emotional reaction. As all gets revealed now but many of you won't understand the German messages I exchanged with Othrym let me explain. He lives not so far away from me and we started to talk about non-planets things. I didn't realize this was just to lull me.
2423 days, 11 hours, 31 minutes ago
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emork the lizard king
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Fruchtquake, of course I agree to the point that a three player pre-game alliance is a joke in a championship game. I'm still not sure if this was the case (we'll ses soon) but if yes, then I'm even more happy that we got a worthy first emperor Dungeonmaster.
2423 days, 10 hours, 59 minutes ago
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star72066
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   DM -

My friend and I were just talking about this game, and we both agree that the Privateer probably did what he did, in response to the Lizard/Empire/Crystal. That being said, you were one - two in power, when do you call off the dogs and go for the win? Unfortunately, that is a subjective call that we will all disagree on.

The Privateer may yet be vindicated, I said as much in my post.

At some point, there had to be a point that the Privateer felt you weren't to big to rob into submission and not to small to get a plethora of Cubes and fireclouds from. It truely is a subjective call and perhaps he was going to make it, when the mass-colonization hit and the string of Borg bases, all at once made the point of no return come quicker than expected. 

Time will tell...I want to believe the Privateer had every intention of winning and mayhaps if when this game ends, the review will clearly show that he did. Like I said before also, I do hope so... I'm just stating what has been presented in this thread, after reading all accounts from the various players, involved and not-involved in the two alliances. What happened in this game violated a principled spirit we all hope to exsist in all our games and especially a game like this and to the extent of that betryal is the only question that remains unanswered. Unanswered not for me, or for the community, but for the players who played in this game with an ethical standard above much of what can definately be construed from the reading. Perhaps it does end with the Crystal/Lizard/Empire.

Some would say the line of ethics is drawn at. No hacking - No playing two races and everything else is OK. I disagree. I believe we all want to believe in a spirit and ethical principle that every championship game should have, and that is that each race will do the best they can for their race to win. That didn't happen here and the results of that negatively impacted players in this game who had to expect more. Thats a shame.

2423 days, 10 hours, 41 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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When do you call off the dogs and go for the win... what point indeed... how to become emperor...
2423 days, 10 hours, 30 minutes ago
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star72066
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  DM-

He never did. Not until it was moot.

How not to become emperor.

Now, that may be unfair, as I said, perhaps it was in planning when the ship exodus crap hit.

2423 days, 9 hours, 22 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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Ah, I see we have new ranks in the leaderbord. I'm a defeated supreme commander now - that's true. Very nice!
I just wonder if all supreme commanders - defeated or not - will stay on top of the lists. Would make it difficult to find out who is really leading at the moment.

2423 days, 8 hours, 24 minutes ago
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bondservant
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Congratulations again Dungeonmaster! 

I checked to see how Taurus was going and I see you now have 250 planets.  Job well done.

I also see that history is beginning to rewrite itself, as it often does for those who go down in defeat.  Once it was eventually clear that the Borg and Pirates were working together, then many of us remaining communicated to discuss how to avoid their victory.  But there was no "alliance" in Taurus with me (Crystals) with anybody, as will be evident when all is revealed with the turns.  In fact, the closest thing I had to an alliance the whole game was with me and the Privateers -- which increasingly became evident to me was one-sided and personally that is what I think led to the Pirates eventual defeat, as I shared with the Pirates when he delivered his glorious death-blow to me.

Finally, if you read our posts from long ago, you will notice that we did not leave Taurus until we knew that it would either be the Borg (most likely) or Pirates (had a small chance) that would win.  And as they were allied together -- we did not care which player became Emperor.  They chose to play on after we left to see which of the two would win the game.  Fine.  But there was no need for the rest of us to be involved once they had secured the victory.  Game was truly over at that time and it was time then for the rest of us to congratulate and move on.

Congratulations again to the Echo Cluster Emperor!
2422 days, 10 hours, 52 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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Ready my cubes for battle.
They will ride with their emperor once more.
I have lived through others far too long.
Jkovalainen, othrym carried my honor and Julius my guilt, Skiv bore my sins, my cubes have fought my causes.
Now my brothers, I SHALL BE EMPEROR!

BIOCIDE! ANNIHILATION! FIRECLOUD! PREPARE FOR BATTLE! THE FINAL BATTLE OF TAURUS IS UPON US!

2422 days, 0 hours, 36 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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joshua what's going on?

still no countdown. Scoreboard looks funny with duplicate races. I'm seeing even duplicate VCRs this turn - with different battle outcomes!
2421 days, 22 hours, 44 minutes ago
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othrym
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Reported this morning
http://planets.nu/discussion/bug-greater-host-bug
2421 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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I don't particularly mind the bug with the Cube, though :P wondered that myself as well as the VCR location pointed to a different location.
2421 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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Nice final fleet battle Skiv, I don't know how much of it was bug or not. The cubes fought like unchained demons. In fact I have nothing to reproach of my cubes this game, with a rough start I think overall they will have outperformed.
2421 days, 19 hours, 38 minutes ago
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skiv
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Yeah, good battle, but my ships do not had enough of fighters and half of them was damaged by the minehits. So such outcome was predictable.

Really, where is the countdown I'd like to know?
2421 days, 19 hours, 29 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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I've messaged Joshua about ignoring the countdown, since we're all in agreement to end it, so I think he may have not coded it in. OR there is a major host bug, which it looks like...
2421 days, 18 hours, 56 minutes ago
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joshua
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Hey guys this game will end now.. and we'll make an official announcement tomorrow with next steps. Congrats DM!

2421 days, 14 hours, 18 minutes ago
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veldan
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Congratulations DM.  Your masterful handling of the diplomatic end of the game bested 10 other strong players.  Othrym got backed into a corner where he felt he almost had to "make the deal with the devil ".  Although he did have other options, you were able to keep the chips stacked in your favor.

Excellent job, well played.
2421 days, 7 hours, 28 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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We have the official end to the Taurus War! As I sip my late harvest Christmas wine, I thank all of you for your congratulations and specifically to my noble opponents one and all. We marched in last April knowing fully 10 of us would perish, to you valiant supreme commanders, I offer a toast and some verses from traditional Irish war song, the foggy dew:

The bravest fell, and the requiem bell rang mournfully and clear
For those who died that Eastertide in the springing of the year
While the world did gaze, in deep amaze, at those fearless men, but few
Who bore the fight that freedom's light might shine through the foggy dew

And back through the glen I rode again and my heart with grief was sore
For I parted then with valiant men whom I never shall see more
But to and fro, in my dreams I go, and I kneel and pray for you,
For slavery fled, O glorious dead, When you fell in the foggy dew...

Linked above is the Sinead O'Conner version sung with the Chieftains, a fantastic, emotional rendition which if you have not the option to hear it through the link do try and hunt it down.
 
I will post soon, though perhaps not tonight (depending on the wine... ) some general analysis on the war, a list of major events as I saw them unfold.
2421 days, 4 hours, 8 minutes ago
View julius's profile
julius
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Congratulations DM, a very worthy winner
2421 days, 1 hours, 55 minutes ago
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fruchtquake
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Congrats to DM and to all the others who played to the end.

As the game has come to an end i will give an insight of how the game went from my perspective. i should have been exticnt very early on by an overwhelming push of skiv (robots) but i will come to that soon...

Writing as the Commander for the Federation

Turn 1
i found myself in an "ok" spot lokking at the star map. ive been in far better and also far worse situations. not the start you want to have for a game of this format against the best players of the other races but still ok.
i ve shared messages with almost every race and some people were quity chatty (especially the lizards and crystals who wanted me to reveal my position while offering a treaty in terms of cooperation which i neither declined nor accepted. i did not want to forge 3-way cooperations unless necissary. it was supposed to be a FFA game.

until turn 12
it did not take much to put the pieces togehter that i gained from sharing messages so i soon had a good idea where everyone was located on the map. no exact coordinates but still...

turn 12
without any previos contact made a cat's paw, 1 instrumental and 1 automa appeared from my eastern side, less than 280 ly's away from my HW. on top of that, a huge ion storm was starting to move over my territory which i knew would make sweeping impossible.
skiv's robotic forces quickly too my outer colonies and moved into the heart of my territory.

Turns 17-18
i had managed to push out a few ships to intercept skiv's fleet. always guessing what planet or starbase ( i had 2 close to each other by that time ) he would attack.

Turn 19
i lost the guessing game - probably due to the Evil Empire leaking information about my star bases. A huge minefield covered my space and several of my ships were heavily damaged. On top of that 2 more Automas appread 280 ly's away. clearly moving into my territory.

Turn 21
Skiv had surrendered my HW with his forces. some of mine were stranded due to the large minefield. i decided not to lay mines to counter his minefield for several reasons. stopping 3 automas and 1 instrumental by turn 21 is hardly possible for feds with just 1 active base. i needed every ressource ( thanks to the reduced mining "bonus" for the Feds ) to get fighters and torpedos.
Did i mention that 2 more ships came my way? 1 Automa and 1 Golem... (by turn 21 skiv had pushed out at least 5 Automas, 1 Golem and 1 Instrumental along with some cat's paws)

Turn 21++
I managed to kill his entire attack fleet by losing almost anything that i had. left with several damaged, fuelless ships in deep space while having close to zero minerals in my HW and a huge minefield covering my space.
by that time DM (Borg) offered a helping hand by suggesting a trade. i should give out lokis for either 3 fireclouds (always the best option) or 1 biocide. I had to take the biocide because there were more robotic ships on the way. 3 FCC's mena nothing if you cannot shoot your opponent down... what a pity.

I killed of the last attacking ships soon after that and began to recover slowly while settling a peace with skiv.
when i was on my way back, several players had huge fleets, lots of star bases and a good amount of military power. Suddenly, 3 players destroyed their fleets and left the game while i had 2 "producing" star bases. slots were quickly filled and i found myself on the bottom of things.
Predicting that i would be destroyed by either borg or privateer forces pretty quickly i offered them doing super refits for their ships just to be staying alive.

What happened next is probably better told by the players that fought it out to the end. My participation and any chance of winning in this game ended by turn 21 ( probably even before that)

Looking back i cannot say that i would do anything different. I just dislike the idea of forming large cooperations in a Championshipgame unless necissary (1 player is on the way to achieve victory).

Fruchtquake
Federation
2421 days, 1 hours, 17 minutes ago
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spacesquad
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Supreme Commander SpaceSquad arrived at the imperial palace as one of the first. The Federal and the Rebel delegation had already bent their knees. Now it is his turn, he walked through the hall towards the throne. The imperial palace is an impressive building, as impressive as Dungeonmasters victory in the Taurus system is. The emperor defeated a bunch of top Commanders on the battlefield and some of the top Commanders even fleed in panik before the real battle had even started. Dungeonmaster deserves to sit on this throne, the Supreme Commander thought as he arrived in front of the throne. He stopped, bend his knee and said loud and clear:
Hail Emperor Dungeonmaster!
While he was still bending his knee, with clenched fist SpaceSquad thought: Enjoy your time old man, soon, yes soon, your reign will be over. :)
2420 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes ago
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joshua
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The final host will be rerun just to get the data straight. Enjoy re-watching your turns. Official inauguration announcement coming soon.  
2420 days, 15 hours, 19 minutes ago
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othrym
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Joshua, please set game again on hold. Else there will be another run in 11 hours.
2420 days, 14 hours, 56 minutes ago
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skiv
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Territory timelapse from the Cylon Race
http://youtu.be/7vU3FjobWO4

Thanks to all for this Game!
2420 days, 14 hours, 26 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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2420 days, 14 hours, 23 minutes ago
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othrym
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Great, JK!
2420 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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So as promised I'll give a general overview of the Taurus war and the major events as they unfolded.
For such a complicated game, you basically need a guide.

I'll begin with the major events as I saw them, it's not an exhaustive list and if others feel like mentioning important moments as they see them please feel free to add. 
2420 days, 12 hours, 4 minutes ago
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dungeonmaster
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TAURUS WAR - ONLY THE HIGHLIGHTS

To help people find things quickly using the search function
I will designate "ships" by number prefixed with an "s" so
ship #42 is s42 and planets by a "p", warpwell of planets by a "w",
deep space by "DS" a move is a single arrow "->" and a chunnel is a
double arrow "-->"

Lower your shields and disarm your weapons! - Turn 31-32:
s429->s379 --> p247
This is the most generally useful move of high level borg play. A ship, generally but not always a cloaker, locks tow beam onto a target ship and tows the target to a firecloud. The towed ship of course drops to warp zero, and automatically follows along with the chunnel. It arrives without shields and is blown away or captured by a cube. Properly performed they lose ships, you lose nothing. The jump firecloud should have exactly 50 fuel or it might accidentally fight first.
s429 did the honours here, and a was a key "yeah I trust you now" moment in borg-pirate diplomacy. But this is repeated and attempted many many times throughout the game. Once you have acquired cloakers or a cloaking ally this is your best move and should be used and abused as often as you can set it up.

Blackhawk down, we have a blackhawk down - Turn 34-38:
s381->DS
This was supposed to be a standard tow chunnel, where s383 tows s379 and the bulk of the borg fleet appears at poorly defended klingon planets to enforce borg will. Host has another thing in mind, instead nearly delivers an annihilation to the hands of the brotherhood. Ultimately the cube nearly escapes, my own bad call on the retreat. As a result of this the most important diplomatic move of the game happens under my pressure.

Othrym makes a mistake, just one - Turn 37:
With increasing pressure on my end, veiled threatening of loki, Othrym offers me shared intelligence. It will accomplish the goals of the formal alliance, we will defeat the brotherhood which has 3 anti-pirate races of lizard, crystal and klingon, but from a tactical standpoint the tactical damage of shared intelligence is unparalleled.  This was of course my hidden agenda the entire time, I am sorry Othrym but you fell for it. At no point did I wish you ill, personally, but as a player it was always my goal to see and know your ships, your bases. We are the borg.

Crystal glass jaw - Turn 38:
s499+s379->w160 (!)
Yes the biocide aims for the edge of the warpwell and hits the planet instead. s379 marches with the crystal global minefield FC provided by romulan and hits an EMPIRE webmine for which we have no FC, INSIDE the warpwell drops to the planet and toasts a pack of crystal ships.

What do you mean there are rush? - Turn 42-43:
s137+s244+s415 --> p160
Othrym wants my cubes to go first, I definitely do not want my cubes to go first I only have a handful of them. I also accurately calculate that if the rush fight first, the despair level will rise and offering a cube to the rebel in recompense will ingratiate myself towards him. Deeply amused by Othrym's diplomatic message "It would be really good if you would explain your plans fully. Especially if it regards my or Julius ships." With this message I realize he plans to back-pocket the rebel for his abilities against me, and he views the rebel ships and abilities as his own. I foresee many turns in advance what the gameplan is going to be and so when the request comes to warp rebels far west it will remain denied.
In point of fact I won't ship clans far west either.

THE Game defining move - Turn 42:
s458 -> p481, s11+s207 -> w481, s321->DS
This is the now famous/infamous checkmate of the klingon Emork.

The second most game defining move - Turn 44-45:
p404. Othrym at his best. The invisible dagger suddenly becomes real and plunges deep, very deep. Jkovalainen nicknames the operation BOOBS. The spectre of the unholy might of a pirate borg alliance grips the cluster in despair.

The ship market crashes - Turn 46:
"I have not thought that there will be so much cubes and new fireclouds." are othrym's words. This was a fun evening, I was up very late, he was up very early, we both knew something big was
going to happen, we didn't tell each other of course the details. Othrym had a major surge of adrenaline, we sent messages through the non-recorded player-to-player in quick succession. At some point there was a lull in othrym's messages back and forth, I'm positive that at that point he actually started counting the cubes and the numbers were not amusing, not amusing at all.
There is a lot of diplomacy, back and forth, but much of this I am sad to report does not paint the accurate picture. I know precisely what I'm going to do from this point on and I go about it with brutal efficiency while placating the inevitable pirate borg war until I am simply too big to fail. Let them marshall what they can 40 turns from now, it'll be "irrelevant", we are the borg. The exit of the colonies means a capstone pain-in-the-ass race are out.

Dissolution - Turn 47:
The borg sever all ties with the pirate, with a mild but clearly understood threatening of loki enhanced violence, protecting key areas with minefields and fireclouds warping the bulk of the fleet into the north west, far far from the pirate. There is almost nothing the pirate can do to prevent the borg from taking the entire west of the map.  The armada is now hidden, the disposition is unkown, from here we grow. And grow. And grow. Too big to fail.
The pirate MUST take as much as he can of the east, or else those races get them!
He must simultaneously marshall his diplomatic leverage to counter the nigh unstoppable borg armada. As predicted, friction will develop between the pirate and his would be neighbours and saviors. Many of his ships are crap right now, it's too early for a war against the borg, the allied nations are not present or presently willing, his defenses are not ready, what can he do?
I let them argue, peace and remaining on excellent terms with Jkovalainen top priority.
I need bases. Lots of bases. Bases with just a few fighters, enough to kill MBR.
A great wall of borg bases to keep the mongols out, or at least very intimidated.

OMG the borg is in the NE! - Turn 66:
A lizard colony on p314 was taken over and by sheer luck a reptilian colony grew on it. I sent a probe on a mission to the ends of the cluster, loaded with MC, in case by sheer luck I could get a base and firecloud out of p314. I do! Quickly dump it into the warpwell, get a cube out for defense and now proceed to march on Skiv from 3 directions. This move precipitates the end of the cold war between me and othrym. Gives me access to his far eastern lizard hunting grounds and allows me to advance towards Jkovalainen for trade (and mild threatening if necessary). The decision to attack Skiv over attacking othrym is 1 part honouring my agreements, 2 parts it's far from the pirate homecluster, and 5 parts Skiv doesn't have enough bases and will make a nice light snack regardless of the inflated military score. If othrym wants to stay at cold war status, and really does hold to his word I have no problem ending the game in Skiv's sector.

The Pirate breaks the cold war - Turn 76:
Pirate ships tow robot fleet towards p133. p133 and the entire line of bases from p133 to p117 is the "line". This is where I correctly assume the major battles will be fought and the line must remain threatened, the bases taking down as many ennemy ships as possible and reconstructed as necessary. I cannot with 4 loki hold the entire line, eventually it will be reduced to p211 cluster. With the pirate indirect attack and breaking of the initial agreement it is necessary to return to the home cluster and quell the pirate flank before destroying the robot. This means the robot gets many turns to build bases, so be it, the game can end in either space or some linear combination of both as I see fit. The pirate's limited access route to the far west can now be cut off and the far western pirate planets are essentially a bolus of ~30 planets ripe for the taking. They were intentionally cutoff and starved for this set of circumstances.

Frycutus maneuver - Turn 76:
s391 --> p477.
s14 and s221 walk in under tow lock by their own ships and get chunneled to their doom.
Semi-unintentional. Turn went through several revisions one of them included this maneuver to defend p196. Decision in the end was to use the pop ship s200 to intercept robot fleet and fight a normal battle with intercept from s108+s109+s499 with s391 simply moving off under tow by s362. In the end, host had a mind of it's own and well, a pack of robot ships die with no borg casualties.

ADVANCE - Turn 77:
Massive military deployment into pirate space. The amount of military hardware now focused entirely on the pirate is the stuff of sci-fi nightmares. The only appropriate music is the host of the seraphim by dead can dance. Wherever othrym's fleet "was" it's now heading back home, he needs every available resource at this point and at this stage the fear factor is likely sky
high and only going to get worse. Cubes with h.phasers are deployed to keep my own minefields up against robot counter mining. This has considerable success as only the first line of planets get uncovered before the first line of pirate planets fall. It is then a question of re-supply, the pirate torpedo worlds will go down, he will be unable to resupply, my mines will over-take once again. Many, many advanced moves go on here, it's a complicated mess and I would need stiff alcohol to properly discuss open late game pirate borg war in depth.

Rebel has a pair ~ Turn 77:
I am not sure what the detail are exactly but the rebel breaks with the pirate. This is an uncoordinated pincer, but a pincer nonethless with a loki enhanced borg, it is enough to give sleepless nights to any supreme commander.

Amekakeru Hira No Meki! - Turn 79:
I unleash the ultimate of the secret arts of the firecloud! The "offensive" tow-drop-chunnel. I have been itching to use this, my ultimate technique for nearly 80 turns, debating between maximum shock and awe or tactical timing of use, I chose the latter.
s158->p123, s48->p194, s297->p240, s296->p240, s85->p124
s227+s420+s397+s36 --> p309
Everything set to warp zero or cloaking is ripped off the planets and thrown half way accross the galaxy in front of a JAWS cube (gamma bomb annihilation) and in an ion storm.
The goal of this move is to rid the planets of Jkovalainen's cloakers allowing the cubes to waltz in and break things with impunity (which they proceed to do). As well as capture any juicy
pirate ships I can, of course. Ironically a loki was supposed to show up but somehow got lost by host (I was very mad).  I miss capturing a bunch of MBR and it leads to a few turns of odd positioning and some hilarious ship names.
The technique will be liberally used and most destructively Turn 82->83 with s258. I realize othrym has handed over very low ID cloakers to the romulan and so Turn 83 has the "proper configuration" with the loki arriving out of harm's way. Othrym grows wise now and panicked, I limit his mobility almost as much as he does mine, perhaps more.
Known by few, this is the technique that distinguishes the expert from the master.

WOLF359 for Taurus - Turn 85 the battle of Atlantia 2, p211:
Most important fleet battle in Taurus. Major cylon casualties, minor borg. The trades are for tranwarp h.phaser ships vs. SD1 xrays, the military score of the cylon plummets and the borg looks barely dented. This battle is STILL visible in the graphs. The cylon fleet will never recover from the battle of Atlantia 2 and never push further west. Ultimatum is issued to the pirate for surrender. Pirate pressured near the edge of insanity tenders his surrender and forsakes the robot to assimilation. I accept after considerable deliberation, forsaking the rebel.
Game is unofficially over at this point.

Finale notable events:
Skiv dances and evades intercepting cubes for 10+ turns, I did not give enough credit to Skiv in diplomatic communication, he really demonstrated skill. Dancing and evading with robot ships is like using a hippo for a balerina, don't try it unless you're very confident with your fuel calculation.
In terms of ridiculously bad luck an ion storm pushes s385 but NOT the firecloud s385 was aiming towards (by 2 ly ...). This would not be that alarming except for every attempt to rescue it fails and Skiv inexplicably charges into the storm?! Ultimately he tries to intercept and instead of yielding the PBP I go zero fuel. My goal is to use the hidden super technique of borg to recover my own damn ship when he tries to dock it at a starbase for surrender.
This works! Turn 101 s85->p23 + s157 --> p25.
The cube then goes on to die horribly against a bunch of automa while its stupid
biocide brethren intercept at warp 1 instead of warp 9 but that's another story.
Some of the ground attacks on Skiv's planets are amusing. Turn 93-94, p195 is great fun. The borg are a very strong ground attack race, never forget it.
Turn 100 Jkovalainen formally allies with the borg and decides he's had enough of the shadows.
2420 days, 11 hours, 49 minutes ago
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star72066
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  This game was over by turn 10. Gratz DM. Er' EMPEROR DM.

2420 days, 8 hours, 19 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
"Magnify...... Mr. Worf, dispatch a subspace message to admiral Hansen. We have engaged, the Borg."

With those words circa 1989 arguably the most interesting and powerful story arc of the Star Trek universe was launched. Even today, if someone in VGA planets issues this as a subspace message the echoes of fear and trepidation of those episodes of Star Trek can be felt. VGA planets 3 was born amid the fallout of that generation of science fiction and so it is altogether fitting that the first emperor of VGA nu is Borg.

In very broad terms the foundational principle behind the borg in VGAp 3 is that they are the super-race. They are the borg of the next generation. Why? What makes them so powerful, so daunting? 

My strategy, my style of play, is a positional style. The most important move of Taurus is turn 7, firecloud s73 -> Centre of the map. The importance of this move cannot be understated. Every major event flows from it, everything flows from centre, like a game of chess. Those who control centre are in a dominant position. You can react, and act to the vagaries of the game, seizing opportunity when it presents itself.

The borg are the worst possible race to see in a dominant position. Throughout this game thread you can see the reason why, many of the players describe it in their own words. "Our own fleet is far away from this area" - "made the plans for his resistance futile" - " In this setup with only temporary alliances the chunnel is even stronger. The Borg can offer and withdraw assistance everywhere in short time" - "omnipresent with his fireclouds".
The best description, and this may seem pedantic to some but it really has deep meaning, comes from Sun Tzu here linked. The borg, when well played, are a formless enemy.
Traditional battle lines, areas of influence, are meaningless. There is no core, there are no edges and the ships can be anywhere and everywhere.
The cloaking races, the other races attempting to planet hop, are not truly formless. There is a core, there are edges, and the ships necessarily get concentrated somewhere. Once minefields multiply, fuel and other considerations give even the vaunted cloakers a predictable sphere of influence.
As soon as a strong positional borg player knows the disposition of your fleet, your game is over. They know where to go, how to react, what to do which makes you powerless. Your resistance is futile.

People may look at the 50+ cubes and say "well his economy won the game" but that's not true. 
I often thought Zelrik and Joshua played a joke on me, putting me in a mineral rich, tight map with few natives, a homeworld labelled wolf 359, between a pirate and colonial that can wipe my mines away. Many planets spent the entire game at nearly 0% tax to simply grow because I was so cash starved.
What won me the game was that Emork showed me where his fleet was, he moved it hurriedly through deep space towards the central clusters. What won me the game was Othrym showed me where his fleet was, through pressured diplomacy, contained and hedged, he was forced into a reactive pattern, always a losing proposition. Veldan felt like he couldn't even leave his home cluster, the fireclouds crept towards his core and the paralysing fear of the formless enemy, able to react and act, was overwhelming. Skiv spent half the game flying around, reacting to threats from every direction, ultimately realizing the formless enemy cannot be reacted to, it is simply over.

So that is the borg. Even the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.
My diplomacy is often congenial, you get more with giving carrots then hitting with sticks.
My economy is top notch, the invasion of Skiv is a textbook invasion where I kill the bases set to build, and make my own cubes inside his territory in the normal queue. 
But really what won me Taurus war was the deeply positional play of the formless enemy. I didn't win the game with 50+ cubes, the game was won before that.
There is a guide on Donovan's called "ruling through fear". I'm not sure Sharkman really understands fear, I never played against him. When you care about the game, and you see that firecloud reach the "wrong" position, you know fear. Let Taurus be a lesson to all.
2420 days, 7 hours, 53 minutes ago
View andy44's profile
andy44
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Thanks DM,

That was a great summary.  Lots of tactical goodies for a Borg player.

Congrats on the victory.
2420 days, 7 hours, 38 minutes ago
View challengespaceyard's profile
challengespaceyard
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This is a truly magnificent victory that Dungeon Master successfully pulled off.

2420 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes ago
View mip40's profile
mip40
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Very entertaining to jump randomly right into the intrigues and long diplomacymessages of this game and see the alliances shifting forth and back, at least until T46. Alone writing so much and many messages in all directions might have cost the involved several hours per turn...

And watching the first 10 moves of every race is also quite a good way to learn about the different strategies.

From the startingpositions i would have bet on an early elemination of the Borg (lot of open space and priv and colonial as neighbours) and the Rebel (Priv and Crys as neighbours) while the Fed had the overall worst startingposition planetswise i think.

In the end it seems that JK was the most unlucky person as he was squeezed in between the two brothers but he managed to survive and provided us with his very entertaining birdpictures until to the end of game. Thank you JK!
 
The brotherhood was well aware of the startingposition of each other according to the marking on the starmap in turn 1.
One thing i don't understand is that the Lizard in the first turns always got the messages of the Crystal sent to others also directed to himself in via a
"Sending to: The Lizard Alliance (dragondejhi)" as if he sent it to himself. Don't understand this, maybe a bug?

For myself i learned that i would never want to be part of a championship game (i most propably won't get the necessary achievementpoints anyways) as there is just too much personal emotion involved and the whole game didn't look very much like fun for the involved persons after all that can be read in the forum. In this context i even can understand the reasons that made the droppers push the emergency exit button - but it just opened the way to the Borgs for an easy win. T46 Borg to Priv: "The game is over."
2419 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
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Someone still questioning the brotherhood's team game from turn 1? If you are, check Lizard turn 1 notes on p379, and turn 5 notes on s46. 

What happened on turn 5 that might have revealed my location to Lizards? I initiated diplomacy and told Crystals where I was. Stupid thing to do, I now realize :)
2419 days, 20 hours, 20 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
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It is interesting to see how much our fellow players feared "the brotherhood" working together. Nothing could be further from the truth at first because we wanted to win and we were both concerned we would give each other the win if we did.  But I underestimated this expectation and it drove behavior by other players in the game which I did not anticipate.

I thought the Lizards had a good chance to win, so I as the Crystals did not work with the Lizards until later in the game when the Borg starting dominating middle planets -- forcing me to reconsider my strategy.  And Lizards found the Birdmen on his own - not thru me.  Once Lizards and Crystals learned our proximity (which was not for awhile after game began since we were wary of each other), we initially decided he was going to go his way and I was going to go mine.  We would not help or fight each other.

My early-game diplomacy involved two players I did not know prior to the game.  It was an immediate arrangement with the Empire on the other side of the galaxy and an arrangement with the Pirates for mid-game.  The Empire arrangement worked out well for both of us.  The Pirates -- not so much.

What changed my relationship with the Lizards to become much closer?  The Borg.  It became evident to me (and it seemed ONLY me and perhaps a few outside observers) that the Borg were going to win this game.  I tried to point this out privately to other players and then loudly on the forum. Notice my initial warning in this thread 240 days ago and then 222 days ago I was desperate to make it evident that the Borg had this galaxy won so I published the map showing his center-galaxy dominance.  I pleaded for everyone to take care of the Borg first and then focus on their own wars later.  But DM's diplomacy was excellent -- something every Borg needs in the early game.  His understanding of the game and his economics and military skills are excellent too.  But it was his diplomacy skills that I contend won him the game. Job well done.
2419 days, 19 hours, 32 minutes ago
View seveiht's profile
seveiht
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ok, bond, its pretty clear you are lying.

Here's a quote from your turn 7 that you sent to the lizards.

"Greetings jkovalainen! It is very nice to hear from a neighbor. This should be quite an adventure.

Congratulations on your second starbase! Not only that, but that is a huge juicy planet cluster that you are in. I see that cluster includes the planet 467 and many many planets north of 467. Hmm. 467 is close to me too. But since it is part of the cluster where you must have a Homeworld somewhere in there, I did not move my ship to 467, as you requested.

However, certainly if you are looking for peace, I think that would mean you do not plan to send ships south of 467. Is that correct? All planet clusters south of 467 are closer to my homeworld than wherever your homeworld could be. Including the cluster that includes #200.

Best,

Bond"

On this very same turn the lizards marked the cluster the birds are in.  You are still saying that the lizards found them on their own??? REALLY???
2419 days, 19 hours, 17 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
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Exactly seveiht.  I am aware of that note.  The Lizards and I were going to leave each other alone.  That was a communications of the border not to pass to attack me.  The Lizards had to explore the Birds' planets and Bird clusters with no assistance from me.
2419 days, 19 hours, 4 minutes ago
View mycroft's profile
mycroft
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Excellent game, 

I will have many hours of dis-assimilating your assimilating. Well done DM, getting the first real hard punch at a well estimated time does more damage than the death of a thousand cuts to get to the core. The Borg efficiency of performing silent and unapparent invasion is something to realize near constantly. 

You cannot remain neutral. Borg must be allied with or destroyed. In between decisions are perilous at best.
2419 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago
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spacesquad
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 Dear Brother, I wrote you this message to tell you that i will not work together with you, therefore you have to find you neighbors on your own and scout the Bird area south of you yourself!
Hahahaha, thats even more entertaining then plagues posts!
2419 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
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These Zelrik maps are fairly straight forward about your enemies probable location.  It is likely DD figured it out on his own, and its just coincidence.
2419 days, 18 hours, 35 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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Hey DM, I'm glad to see that you now also point out that the positional advantage makes the Borg fully dominating the game after their empire has grown to a certain size. That's what I'm saying since aeons. I was very aware of this and I thought all other participants of a championship match would also be. It is easy to blame Veldan for not attacking you as fast and hard as possible or Othrym for his weired idea of controlling the Borg. I would have even paid for it.

An interesting new experience for me was how strong the no-alliance-theme boosts Borg power. All treaties and conflicts are temporary and everyone is a potential trading partner. Only the Borg can be everywhere in a second and be the first bidder.

But this I say to all races: Don't loose faith. It is possible to defeat the Borg. Now that tow-drop-chunnelling is disabled it's much easier than before. Just don't let them grow too much. Up to 40 planets they are still in good check if all other races have a solid empire and defend every inch of it. But if the Borg get significantly more planets, especially in the very center or border, it gets dangerous. When estimating the military power of the Borg you have to at least double their ship count and triple their military score. Keep this in mind for your next encounter or be assimilated.

2419 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes ago
View tom graves's profile
tom graves
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>>So that is the borg. Even the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.<<

Thus you must do as Thin Lizzy did. Kill the Borg immediately. Thus you must do as the Federation did. Kill the Borg, Use all your resources. Kill the Borg. Everyone MUST kill the Borg. Then kill the Crystals. Then kill the Privateers. After that. Everyone has a shot at being emperor.

Kota
2419 days, 18 hours, 27 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Emork, tow-drop-chunnelig is disabled??
2419 days, 17 hours, 58 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
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Just a few thoughts:

1. Epic.  Absolutely epic match.  This is one for the history books, and one that will be studied for months if not years.  DM's highlights outline and Borg essay might as well become part of the VGA Planets bible.

2. I don't mean to make a comparison between different commanders, because at this level it's apples and oranges, so to speak.  But as much as I admire DM's strategy and thoughtfulness, I must say that Othrym's perfection and thoroughness has caught my attention the most.

3. Emork is totally right.  Position!  Enough said.

4. I'm surprised by how many Bloodfangs are in Othrym's fleet and how many Annihilations are in DM's fleet.  I understand the reasons, but I'm still surprised.

5. Hypothesis: the Borg would not have to prevail if players did not generally see everything as "their" territory.  What Taurus has taught me so far (and it will take months to sift through it) is that "your" territory is not your own.  We get so attached to our pretty planets because we care for them, build on them, nurture them, make our clans and natives grow, etc.  But the grand illusion of the Echo Cluster is that you actually own an empire and therefore you become attached to what you have built.  But unfortunately, you haven't built your planets.  The only things you have built are (1) your ships and (2) your position.  Space belongs to everyone and there is no regulation in the grand scheme!  [In the old days there were Planets games with no homeworlds - where you started with a fleet of STF at the same point in space as everyone else, filled with colonists and supplies and money, and you had to go make your own empire, so to speak.  The problem here on Nu is that we have {very rich} homeworlds by default.  The reason the Borg prevails is that they have no homeworld and no need for a homeworld.  Think about it.]

5. Does anyone have an opinion of how tactics such as the turn 79ff offensive Cyborg moves would function now that tow-drop-chunnel is obsolete?
2419 days, 17 hours, 36 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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Hi Veteran, old friend,

you err in point 5. Your territory gives you the resources you need and a most valuable resource is the ship building slot protected by a 15 bays-10 beam-carrier you get on every planet. This is why we conquer planets and hold them. Your equation for power as sum of ships and position ignores starbases and fleet rebuilding capacity. I admit that espcecially the later isn't static. If you have 10 bases around ID 200 and the queue is at 300 it is not too important to defend them. Better lose a ship while conquering planet 320 and make your enemy build no ship there but you.
 
2419 days, 17 hours, 21 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
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I just started to inspect how all this began and when viewing other players turns I found a potential reason for some odd decisions!



2419 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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Emork, wasn't you not listening to this little helper??
2419 days, 16 hours, 59 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
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Hehe.  Yes, I think it is coming back to me.  I may have felt the glow.  And the cute little helper seemed to be whispering to me that the Pirate's sole purpose in the galaxy was to help me conquer it....
2419 days, 15 hours, 1 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
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Story of the Robot, first 30 moves

Turn 6. Doom of the Fruchtquake.
Cylon scanners detected federal Nebula pretended to be a Tranquility.Vector for rush attack gained!
Turn 11. Evil probe.
PL21 jumps directly to my HW! We began negotiations with Sants that led to a bargain: darksensing federal territory for the fighters. Meanwhile early strike fleet of automa and instrumentality ready for rumble!
Turn 13. Fuel fail.
I have three starbases up to the moment and scan info of enemy territory.First federal planet conquered. But there is zero neutronium on surface! Sending cats for refuel.
Turn 20. Pushing.
Seven federal planets and one base taken. Two automa on the way, two more ready to go. First golem built in the HW docs. PL21 cloned and going to jump back.
Turn 23. Limit and Lizard.
One of the richest planet fall under lizard ground attack. Forced to lay defensive minefields next turn. Oops, ships limit reached!!
Turn 27. Lost freighters.
LCC killed two freighters in the east. Heavy ships turned to the south.
Turn 30. Failed to kill fed HW.
Absolutely wrong and adventurous decision was taken. I had not enough carriers and there was not enough fighters for attack... In the south I established the base to hold the sector of six planets and granted safe passage to birds.

to be continued...
2419 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
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After browsing the game a bit, I have to conclude that we have a very worthy Emperor! Congrats, Dungeonmaster.

A few things that strike me as fascinating:
1) How few battles DM actually fought before the game was decided. Feds likely got more sunk tonnage by turn 25 than the Borg by 45. This demonstrates quite effectively that you don't need to fight an all-out war to win.
2) That a Borg that is not under immediate pressure for survival is able to conduct efficient diplomacy with pretty much every race, with actually relevant results. Intervening, trading, bartering, directly affecting the outcome of wars. Get a Firecloud into the center and you can be everywhere and do anything within 6 or so turns. 
3) A Borg that gets to build up the first 20+ turns can afterwards fight essentially with guerilla tactics. If the resistance is too stiff, bugger off and fight somewhere else where it is not. Except they have Cubes, so it's more like a guerilla campaign with tactical nukes.
4) With the almost exponential economic development of the Borg (assimilation + chunnel), the interest for investment is magnitudes higher than with any other race. So handing out trades that seem even 'bad' for the Borg can actually be winning deals, when they buy that critical 10-15 more turns to build up. 

Notes duly taken, I feel the urge to try the Borg at some point.
2419 days, 13 hours, 30 minutes ago
View echoclusterveteran's profile
echoclusterveteran
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>> How few battles DM actually fought before the game was decided.

Yes!  The all-powerful Borg largely avoided combat.  Remarkable!

@emork
>> Your equation for power as sum of ships and position ignores starbases and fleet rebuilding capacity. I admit that espcecially the later isn't static.

Of course building capacity is important.  Rebuilding capacity, though?  In the last sixty turns of Cheeseball sector I had one build on the regular queue in spite of having 40-50 planets/bases.  How was my territory working for me then?  (Sorry, jumped off-topic, but it's an interesting philosophical question.)

You are much more an expert here than I am, but I hope you understood my point.  In general one can afford to lose planets, even though the game is called "Planets" and planets provide the victory condition.  They are not the indispensable capital of the game, though.

I admit that I might be wrong!  :)
2419 days, 13 hours, 7 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
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Well the war is over. Should I write some final words from my side? The history books are written by the winners and the analysts who made the correct guess at the beginning :)

I think I should, because I at least want to thank all my teammates. And I do not mean only the ones that I was suspected to have fraternized with. I mean all other 10 players that have given me the chance of a very challenging game with many ups and downs. Thank you!

The discussion about team game, allies etc. is idle (?). After all I think that every player in this game tried to win this game by his means (or at least make the best from the actual circumstances). And of cause there are people that believe that if someone would have made something different, then the result would be much better. Be invited to take your chance. If you become emperor - you was right - if not - then not ;)

And it also makes no difference, whether bond told DD where the Bird Men is, whether I towed a firecloud in a turn a distance that we would else cover in 2 turns, or whether some races suddenly drops. There are many many other examples. Of cause these actions have influence on the game, but all of this has been within the rules and I believe that everyone does it particularly, because he believes that it fits his personal interests.
All this actions are allowed by the rules, and I do not claim for myself that I can decide what is "closer" to the rules and what not.
Nevertheless I may be in a snit (?), if something does not run as planned. But all that proclaimed reproaches make only sense as war propaganda - and as the game is over we need no more any war propaganda.

I believe the only "bad move" from bond, DD, sants, i think Emork and maybe more was that they started to use email for more communication. That is no skin off my nose (?), but there is a small smell of ominousness, because afterwards not all is official. But I should not throw to much stones, as I sometimes (especially when the ingame communication was broken) used the NU private message system ... (but no email).



DM, thank you for your insight in your thoughts during the game. (And also to the other teammates that have it done before. As I have reported my point of view before, I will not repeat it again - only maybe some additional hints later on).
The "hidden borg techniques" doesnt suprize me as I have had read Donovan's and a good teacher in two former (or parallel) games ;) But it was interesting and instructive to hear your thoughts behind the words. I will be aware ;)


But nevertheless some corrections from my side:

1) My first mistake I made in turn 1. I started the game with 3 theses:

* At this level of game everyone like myself will fight until the end, even if it does not look as if he still has a chance to win
* If there is one player in very good standing, then all others (or most) will unite to prevent his win
* One needs 200 planets to win (yes that was also important to me, as in a game with many diplomacy it is important how many assistance agreements you can made with races in bad standing)

These wrong assumptions broke the pirat neck:

* When the dropers drop the control of the build queue was lost. You got many unexpected fireclouds and cubes without any harmed ships. In additon more fireclouds because of the PBP from the destroyed Klingon ships. And I got no warship to rob. At this point indeed the game was over or at least shifted from a 50:50 chance to something like 95:5. I do not want to decrease your skill, DM, but after all with this action the droppers vote you to become the emperor.

* After that I nevertheless tried to take that last 5% chance. I knew that now I only can prevent your win with a big alliance. Thus I now tried to forge one within the next dozens of turns. A partner to try to destroy the Loki, a partner to destroy your bases (RGA) and a partner to sweep away your protective minefields within seconds. I think that was the first time in my live that I build Skyfire ships as privateer ;) But they are great as robotic minelayer.
But while I was preparing all, I started to realize that my partners (or most) was not really looking to support that plan. The attacks/tows of fireclouds/loki failed even in cases were cloaked ship and firecloud where at the same point in space (once even in a warpwell ;) Ok, maybe a client failure ... who knows. A failed cloak that showed open a towed bird men ship. A "no" to a request so send one single carrier south, and finally the war declaration of julius.
At this point I knew that the last 5% are gambled away.
You wonder why I nevertheless send a first fleet of MBR and BR toward your first row of planets but not deeper? Sorry ;) That was only my personal prove of concept that the plan may have worked to reach your planets/starbases with rebel cloakers to harm your infrastucture. With these ships under only my control I of cause was not able to harm you.

* Well yes and the 250 planets to win really catched  me on the hop as I had an idea how to get the 200 planets, but to reach the 250 planets my diplomacy must have been a different one some dozen turns before ... That is the problem if you rely on diplomacy and not on warships.

2) The share intel was - from my point of view - no mistake. I got also very important information from your ships. You know that was at a moment when I still believed in the balance. That you got knowledge about my planets/starbases/ships? Well, my intention was to get a starbase on every planet, and most planets build MBRs ... there is no difference (from my point of view;)
And you see ... when you finally attacked me, you does not hit an important money planet first or my HW because of a small bluff.
(of cause ... after 5-10 more turns you would have caught it all ...)

By the way, DM, thank you for not revealing your best anti pirat move ;)

Back to the general comments. I agree with the voices of some from the audiance, that the borg is the greatest threat - but not for the privateer. Sorry that is my opinion, you can of cause have your own. There are many other races that are by their own abilities a greater danger to the privateer. The borg is only a greater danger, if he has some assistance ... like an ion storm etc.

... By the way ... Note to the developers:
I like the campaign games ... good work ...
but you gave the privateers the 450 from the beginning, calculated from "normal" games. But the campaign games are Stellar Cartography games with permanent located ion storms called nebula. That makes it for the borg much easier to catch the cloaked ships ...

That leads me to another comment. If we again start the discussion about the tow-drop-chunnel etc. (I really have no hint, that it really has been canceled ...) As a privateer my greatest problem is not this move, but the fact that every cloaked ship goes with a chunnel. I know this is only a game but this is the most illogical fact of the chunnel or even the whole game. Why should a cloaked ship be forced into a chunnel???
But that is of topic ;)


So far so good. Oh, yes ... one last remark towards JK after I have reviewed many turns. Your performance as a sly Romulan was the best I have realized within planets. Salvo! Now I have an ideal whenever I play again a bird men ;)
2419 days, 13 hours, 7 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
quote bondservant 
"I thought the Lizards had a good chance to win, so I as the Crystals did not work with the Lizards until later in the game when the Borg starting dominating middle planets -- forcing me to reconsider my strategy.  And Lizards found the Birdmen on his own - not thru me.  Once Lizards and Crystals learned our proximity (which was not for awhile after game began since we were wary of each other)..."

so you're still seriously claiming that your brother did not know your location from turn 1, and that you didn't tell him my location at turn 5 after you learned it?

Are the notes or their timing perhaps corrupt when you go look at the turns? In case they aren't, I can't really think of any scenario how Lizards could have learned my location on their own. Someone please educate me.

quote veldan 
"These Zelrik maps are fairly straight forward about your enemies probable location.  It is likely DD figured it out on his own, and its just coincidence."

agreed, the location of an enemy home cluster is pretty straightforward to guess. However, guessing the Bird Man home cluster without seeing any ships or being in range for sensor sweep OR any Empire ship being in range for dark sense, is a 10% chance. Would you write notes on your ships based on a 10% guess?
2419 days, 13 hours, 1 minutes ago
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othrym
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ECV,
> 4. I'm surprised by how many Bloodfangs are in Othrym's fleet and how many Annihilations are in DM's fleet.  I understand the reasons, but I'm still surprised.

My main reason for the Bloodfangs and my 2 Merlins and 2 Neutronic Refineries (one was destroyed) has been the beam weapons against mines. We privateers have only 4 beams on our main ship the MBR. Because of this I build the Bloodfangs and the alchemy ships with heavy phasers. In additon the bloodfangs help to conquer some planets where a MBR has a problem ...
2419 days, 12 hours, 59 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
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@othrym

thanks :)

and the reason why I'm still bitching about the brotherhood's actions is not that they would have been against any rule. They weren't. What pisses me the most is the denial, still going strong.
2419 days, 12 hours, 51 minutes ago
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fruchtquake
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true.. and after all.... it is still cheating to me ,)
2419 days, 12 hours, 38 minutes ago
View bondservant's profile
bondservant
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
JK, your note to me indicating you were north of me was normal since my ship was on its way to visit your planets.  It only gave me your general location slightly ahead of time when I would have discovered it myself.  As regards to where your HW was .. I was still trying to guess that for 20+ turns.  As for home cluster locations, I am generally very good at guessing exactly where they are on turn 1 before any communications with anyone.

In those early turns, most of us were communicating with several players regarding possible enemy locations.  I had communications with several players including the Lizards stating where we thought the other players were.  Give and take communications.  So I am not denying that I often communicated with many players in our galaxy including the Lizards at the beginning of the game regarding player locations.  But I am stating that I did not decide to work closely with the Lizards until I sensed the Borg were a much bigger threat to win the game than he was.  Even then -- it was not going to be a game-long relationship.  Anyways, I think this minor point has been beaten up too much already.  You can believe it or not.  I am not going back to dig up emails and not sure I even have them anymore.
2419 days, 12 hours, 30 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
so the answers to my questions

1) did you tell your location to your brother at turn 1 (not later, immediately)
2) did you tell him my location at turn 5 immediately after you learned it

are

1) yes
2) yes

k thx.

2419 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
while we're at it, can you shed some light on this analysis as well from DD 172 days ago? I guess the planet he referred to was id #184 (that one is called Arkto)

---


Oops, sorry DoDo birdy;

  Again your wisdom proves mostly correct.  Of course you own Oakhurst, it is in your territory.  It is the fact that you own Arkto:84.  A SB deep in the Borgy territory that makes me wonder why you complain about others doing exactly what you are doing.  As far as I am concerned, that is okay.  But the Borg throws out propaganda about others owning SB's in other players territories, as his Henchman you jump to his defense, yet you two do the same????  Hummm, makes one wonder why you think anyone would listen to your whining.  But then again, I see you are copying good planning, and that's a compliment, so I think you ;-)
2419 days, 12 hours, 3 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
 RE: not going after the Borg hard and fast from the get go.  That was my initial plan.  However, after getting nothing but silent treatment from folks on turn 6 when DM and I hit each other.  I realized that I had to build a strong fleet to take him out.  I bought 20 turns, and expected Othrym to not only join in but to harass him early.  I figured with DM being one of the strongest players in this game, and me being near the bottom, that Othrym would take those odds.

I was ready to go.  And I had the fleet to do it.

I only wish that I had understood Othryms opinion on the Borg from the get-go.
2419 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Not to disrupt the settling of old scores with some generosity but from the very beginning I planned on donating all of my achievement score to one, a few or all of my opponents so as to deaden the impact of loss.
I will definitely play borg on Nu again, however not for some considerable time, or my wife will kill me, no joke. My achievement score would go to better use in the hands of those amongst you who would wish to play competitive planets again at this highest of levels. I realize it's not in the rules, and the point of the achievement loss is to give the next generation a chance to get in, but I am merely throwing this idea out there. 
Also I have eliminated many players and the elimination prizes go to waste now that I have a lifetime membership, so perhaps if I can't do the former I can donate the free months to some? Is anyone at financial burden to play on Nu?

I'm still reviewing other peoples' turns and reading all the comments in the forum, what an insane game... 

It's a pity much of the diplomatic communication is now lost to email, particularly the frantic plans when the checkmate moves were in play, if anyone could dig that up and post it, I would be much inclined for the record. The whole "brotherhood" mega-alliance never bothered me one bit incidentally, it's all propaganda.  
I have to say, the diplomatic communiques between bondservant and othrym circa turn 44-45 are perhaps the most hilarious I've ever read in my life. I don't know where or how you get the gaul to say the things you do othrym, your rob him blind, tell him he's going to lose planets to you, offer to forsake the romulan to the lizard fleet, whom you share intel with, and in the same breath propose alliance to help with fighting the robots 1000 ly away, with whom you have safe passage with. That's so Jack Sparrow... I... can't... compete... Everything is illuminated! Othrym gets my spirit vote, hands down.
2419 days, 1 hours, 12 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Jkovalainen gets my entertainment vote, his "trapped between the brothers" picture still makes my laugh. Especially if I imaging that all 3 fight in the bush and the only one who walked out alive is the “little” bird. Top performance Jkovalainen, if you would have been next to Borg, we would now discuss about the unstoppable Birdmen.

Bondservant is for me one of the top diplomats here, only beaten by Halions golden tongue. He can sell you anything for gold, and you walk away happy with your hand full of glass pearls. Very dangerous in Team games, I have experienced that myself

2419 days, 0 hours, 14 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yeah, Spacequad, for me "trapped between the brothers" was the most entertaining posting in this thread! I laughed out loud. JK, do you have a Bird picture database for every possible situation? :) And JK's in-game performance is worth a special price. I voted for him as crowd favourite.

My participants vote went to Skiv to also give him a reward for his aggressive fighting. I like this style but after a deeper look in this game I fear that swordsmen are outclassed by wordsmen nowadays.

I have to admit that I joined this game with a totally wrong idea of it. Thus I restricted my diplomactic effort to get one safe border and trade a useful ship. I started going for Sants as soon as I saw he is my weaker neighbour and concentrated on this task. What a misconception! This was the game with the greatest amount of (temporary) collaboration and communication among various races I ever was part of. Well, I don't mind diplomacy at all so I've learned this lesson.

Some of the diplomatic messages I read were really brilliant for their purpose but I still have one problem with it. I can't imagine to believe a single syllable that e.g. Othrym will tell me in any future game. O dear, a little distrust is healthy but if it has to be the foundation of every action this makes playing not very enjoyable for me. My hope it that this style - may it be helpful in a championship game or not - does not infect too many and I'll be able to make the one or other reliable treaty in my next games.

2418 days, 23 hours, 28 minutes ago
View fruchtquake's profile
fruchtquake
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
looking at the quality of skiv's planets i still wonder how i managed to survive :D
2418 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply

Here my analysis of the initial diplomacy, that’s the official diplomacy based on peace treaties. The borders were there is nothing in turn 20, you can expect a NAP at least.

The blue circles are centered on the HW so you can get a feeling for the distance.






You can see that the Rebel had no chance vs. Priv, they were located very close together. The Brotherhood tried to crush the bird in the middle and then fight back to back.


2418 days, 23 hours, 7 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Would be awesome if the in-game messages could be extracted somehow and put as separate "discussions" between each contestant. Of course that wouldn't capture all conversations since some people chose to discuss outside the game, but anyway would give a better picture to follow some of the conversations.
2418 days, 23 hours, 0 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I would love to see the negotiated border lines in the map.
2418 days, 22 hours, 22 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Here you are. I made a little bluff so the Klingon-Fed border agreement gave me me the big cluster south-east of my home area.


2418 days, 21 hours, 52 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I already mentioned it once but Spacequads great map shows it very good. One characteristic of this map is that the Pirates have no natural enemy nearby. With tow-drop-chunnel the Borg can defend a little bit but they need an ion storm in place and making such blind moves slowes them down a lot.

The Rebel Julius really had a difficult position. No defense against the Pirate and too few beams against the Crystal. An early cooperation of Rebel & Crystal (easy with Falcons) would have been a solution but that didn't happen. It could have led to a quite different development.

Another interesting fact is that DM and Othrym were neighbours by accident. At this time they were a great team in the hot stage of Cheeseball, the first big melee. I don't know, so I ask: Were you biased a little bit because of this? Don't get me wrong, this should be no accusation at all. I frankly say that for me it would have been easier to trust someone who is my ally in another very intense game. In a single winner game loyality has a natural limit of course.

This is no complaint about the homeworld settings, just a diagnosis. There is no ideal or fair race distribution.
 
2418 days, 19 hours, 42 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
That deserves a direct reply: Emork at no stage was my participation in cheeseball influencing Taurus, the influence was unfortunately the other way around. In point of fact one of my big regrets from Taurus is that I had to keep my anti-cloaker super move secret in cheeseball. I debated many many times whether or not to unleash it because I knew you and Joe could lie in wait with impunity and control the planet surface against a romulan+borg alliance. At multiple points you see collections of 3 fireclouds and a cube or two, those are me sitting there debating, "should I, should I not...". In the end, and I hope othrym forgives me, I kept it quiet and I let you overrun. There were many other influencing factors, not the least of which is no @#% ion storms and the difficulty of plotting that vector with the possibility of surprise webmines. Taurus was simply too time consuming, cheeseball had to suffer.

As for my early game decision for peace with my neighbours the Quality Vs. Quantity thread details a lot of the mathematics of victory. There is no way, in a game where I want to win that I would go to early war with my neighbours, least of all as the borg. It could have been binky the clown on the left and adolf hitler on the the right, I would not fight until all the ship slots are appropriated. Othrym I am confident did no different, despite his early skirmishes with the rebel the focus was always economy well into the mid-game.

Where I placed extra trust, was when I made one key decision that paid off, and that was to trust othrym sufficiently to not erect moderate minefield defence. I knew that if the colonies were brokering a deal, everything would be wiped out anyways, and so I chose to simply leave myself wide open. It was an easy decision to make as well: I was too poor! My gods my start sucked. 
Within 3 moves of my home world there are:
3.2M bov feudal
2.2M humanoid pre-tribal
2.3M humanoid pre-tribal
1.7M amp unity
7.7M ghips pre-tribal
That's IT! From p203 all the way to p397, from p259 to p140 there were a total of 5 native populations. FIVE. 18 planets, 5 all but one small natives with almost all bad governments. I've looked at all your turns now and with respect, no one had it worse. Even the fed was making 3K from one planet by turn 11. 
My decision making process was very, very straightforward.  If you really want to watch economic wizardy, planning 4+ turns in advance, try building 9 cubes out of that by turn 23. It was not easy.
2418 days, 14 hours, 22 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Just some answers:

1)
Emork, as you spoke about natural enemies, just another schema direct from my turn 17 - the arrow marks my homeworld:



Do you see my natural enemy at this time?

2)
Then you asked, whether there was an influence between Taurus and Cheeseball? An influence was there - as DM said before - of cause as DM more and more full concentrates on Taurus and he was less and less help in the following turns in Cheeseball. Whether we gave each other an advantage because of this game in Taurus? I think not. In "normal life" I think I am a good tabletop roleplayer and I also see every game as a complete different game - just as if you would play "Mensch ärgere Dich nicht!" (German version of "Ludo"). I also try to give my "Avatars" in the different games some different characteristics.
A good example may be the first game where DM and I crossed swords. We fought each other to the blood, but at the end we allied to end the game and prevent an endless 200+ turns war. There he outrun my first rank by fault, and he told me that because of this he "owed me a game" I replied "forget it, every new game where we will meet, will be a new and independant game". (I should have asked him to let me win the next game where we meet as borg and privateer ;) ...

The fact that we allied in Cheeseball was happenstance as he was my second neighbor and I was as bird men looking for a carrier end game race as partner.

That 2 games where the only games where I meet DM (on the one and on the other side). And if there was a game that has a bit of influence on Taurus that it was the game where we fought each other. The same with another game where I crossed swords with Skiv. If one (I) have played in another game against someone (with the same races) then one believes that one knows most of his tricks and because of this, one may be more alert related to the other players against which one has not played before.
But I never gave by intent because of cheeseball or something else an advantage to DM.

3)
" I can't imagine to believe a single syllable that e.g. Othrym will tell me in any future game. O dear, a little distrust is healthy but if it has to be the foundation of every action this makes playing not very enjoyable ..."

Hm. I think that was because of the "no ally game" and all the war propaganda. And the escalation out of it. I believe that at the beginning the greatest advocates of the brotherhood propaganda have been DM and Emork. People like me and JK joined. Suddenly I got public blamed by you that DM chunned me to the center (which was not true) and later you got suddenly protected by webmines. You know we have in german the expression "Und ist der Ruf erst ruiniert, dann lebt es sich leicht ungeniert." (english somethink like: "when the reputation is destroyed you live easier/unabashed (?) ...").

Well, yes ... the war propaganda. Have a lock at all the other games. I think that the Taurus War was the first game I have ever played where there was war propaganda at all in the forum.

Well, we will see how the next championship games run. I fear a bit, that they will be similar - as they are also no ally games. It is hard to stop to try to vindicate yourself in the public during a game in order to end that endless propaganda.
But also I have learnt my lessons from this game ;) And I am happy that I realized in my actual games, that I have returned to my old style to play.


2418 days, 14 hours, 12 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Quote DM: > In point of fact one of my big regrets from Taurus is that I had to keep my anti-cloaker super move secret in cheeseball. I debated many many times whether or not to unleash it

DM, you would have been able to use it in Cheeseball. I used it myself later when you "partly drop" and gave me most of your fireclouds in Cheeseball. Not all special knowledge is secret ;)
2418 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi Othrym and DM, thanks for your thoughts.

As already said when asking about Cheeseball, I was just interested how you handled this and didn't want to imply something.

When looking up my war propaganda I stumbled about something. If you want to see the gods of luck at work then look at my turn 16, ship 52 and what happened next turn (VCR and relevant base). Undeserved of course!
 

2418 days, 13 hours, 58 minutes ago
View emork the lizard king's profile
emork the lizard king
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Othrym, sounds like you're NOT talking about the tow-drop-chunnel-into-ion-storm move. Really? A new secret to discover?
2418 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Emork,
> As already said when asking about Cheeseball, I was just interested how you handled this and didn't want to imply something.

I know. I got it like you said it.
2418 days, 13 hours, 36 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
> Othrym, sounds like you're NOT talking about the tow-drop-chunnel-into-ion-storm move. Really? A new secret to discover?

Emork, sorry I am (in this case) - i think ;)
Read DM`s
"Amekakeru Hira No Meki! - Turn 79:"

That is the classical tow-drop-chunnel-"especially all cloakers"-into-ion-storm move. That is why I said "not all special knowledge is secret".
2418 days, 13 hours, 14 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Othrym if you knew the secret sword art, well then why were you asking me is there anything we can do against Joe's damn cloakers? Sneaky pirate. Well, it still nailed you a bunch of times in Taurus so I'm not upset. I know I mentioned it to you briefly in the bloodbath that was New Sinewnew but I was never sure if you actually knew and understood the intricacies.
On the other hand in cheeseball the ion storms and webfields were just not cooperating, even if I had wanted to and had the time. 
2415 days, 11 hours, 11 minutes ago
View othrym's profile
othrym
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Happy new year to all of you!!!
2415 days, 10 hours, 0 minutes ago
View dazdya's profile
dazdya
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
AHA! I know which calendar you use! :)
2415 days, 9 hours, 44 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
But we're still in 2012 here, for a few more hours! :P

Happy new year to you too!
2413 days, 17 hours, 54 minutes ago
View jkovalainen's profile
jkovalainen
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
@bondservant btw, before the Borg attack through your webmines, didn't you notice the superspy fcode change of p496 at all, or why on earth didn't you riot the colony to death? Turn 37 and onwards.
2413 days, 16 hours, 52 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Happy New and NU year to all!

Let's go further with the story...

Turn 33. Lizard Thunder.
Base, established on turn 30 done its job. T-rex and thunder under command of Dragondejhi killed by the price of one bad-warp automa. Saving other ships from huge web. Under such  circumstances secret cylon-borg project at the p#443 started. 

Turn 38. Silly cat.
While I was solving problems with cloackers prowling far east and worrying with webs Fruchtquake reconquered most of his territory. Only one robotic base left at p#280. Last cat and tanker was intercepted by thor (what I was hoping for doing such move?)

Turn 42. Trap for a Golem.
Golem sent for pressing Fed was towed from p#256 with Painmaker and destroyed with Biocide. Both D7 and Bio under Fruchtquake command. Second probe on the way to JK realm. First was unsuccessfully damaged by ion storm and blown in the web.

Turn 45. Sharing intel.
Most curious moment in a whole game! Cylon ships can freely travel through Privateer, Birdman and Lizard minefields at the same time! Moreover, both Dragondejhi and JKovalainen share intel with me!!! It’s caused some problems nevertheless because I had to lay minefields to protect birds from lizards… :)

Shipdroppers. Ten new ships built!

Turn 48. Gone with the wind.
Dragondejhi recalled SI and going to fly off the map.

Turn 51. War is over.
We conclude peace with the Fruchtquake. This allowed me safely sweep and conquer abandoned lizard territories. Meanwhile DM sent me a funny message: “The lizard I believe is bluffing. I'm not convinced he's going to leave the game. Unless you see something that I don't see, all indications point to him simply regrouping.” :) :) :)

To be continued...
2413 days, 12 hours, 47 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hey Skiv you forgot that probe attack on turn 50 at p39 during the cold war. I was very proud of that small move and guess to delay pirate-robot contact.  
I don't think anyone else is going to post their email diplomacy but it would be great to have some of it on record. Anyone?
We still need to vote on spirit. Othrym gets my spirit vote.  
2413 days, 4 hours, 10 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I havn't mention many other interesting things. To be honest most turns between 40 and 50 deserves separate story.

Jumping to p#39 with probe was a folly. Predictable move and you successfully foresaw this. I need to say that I had to be more concentrated during this championship match and not to lay upon russian "perhaps!". This probe incident only one of many. Here is another example: Fruchtquake set on his planets universal code 'mfc'. I captured them and forgot to check and change codes. Dragondejhi knows about it and freely fly through my fields!
2413 days, 3 hours, 53 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
As for email diplomacy there indeed was some interesting discussions about "Operation Vassal Removal (OVR) Coalition" (23/07/2012). But I can't publish them without consent of Dragondejhi and others including Empire, Crystal and Colonies.

My spirit vote goes to Fruchtquake.

2411 days, 11 hours, 20 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
All this talk about what people were saying in email messages, and peoples statements about "It's not apart of the record", got me thinking back to an old forum thread about 600 days old.  There should be no diplomacy record.

http://planets.nu/discussion/remove-the-ability-to-see-the-turns-of-complete-games

Joshua's post (27th post in the thread, his first)
"Player to player messages are no longer visible when viewing finished game turns. 
Turns will remain open for viewing."

The unfortunate part of this is that Joshua took care of player to player messages only when you viewed the very last turn of the game, if you used the time machine you could view whatever player to player message that showed up on that turn.  Prior to this decision diplomacy messages sent on the last turn of a game were still visible.  

When Joshua rolled out the new diplomacy message engine several months after that thread, I assumed that it would take care of the diplomacy messages being present if you went through the turns in the time machine. Unfortunately, that did not get fixed.  I have reported this in the bug forum several times.

So, since the actual stated stance of this site is to not make public player-to-player messages.  There is no reason to post our email correspondence.  There should not even be a "diplomacy record" and any such record exists only due to a bug that has yet to be fixed by the admin.

If there's a statement from Joshua reversing this decision that was made almost 2 years ago, I will change my mind on this.  Until then, no, and I will hope the bug gets fixed one day.
2411 days, 11 hours, 15 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Also, my spirit vote goes to DD.  Reviewing the OVR emails had reminded me of how hard he worked to try to avoid turn 46.
2411 days, 7 hours, 22 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
However Veldan to a certain extent the diplomacy is in fact a huge part of the fun of reviewing the turns, for me at least. And I know I'm not alone in this aspect. Some of it is absolutely brilliant, hilarious and classic.

We all know my opinion from that thread in the mists of ancient time, I'm for complete transparency. Any chance we could get a glimpse at how hard DD worked on forging the great anti-pirate+borg alliance? All I can see are three messages to Skiv. 

My favorite line othrym-bond as bond has his fleet hook line and sinker into the trap, the lizard
fleet is storming in and there's not a loki at all to be found in the east:
"So will the Birds be around much longer?"
"Not really. See above."
Priceless!  Nearly died laughing...
2410 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
I'm sorry DM, you say you are all for transparency, but the post immediately after Joshua's was you agreeing with the decision to remove private messages from viewing the game.  Or am I wrong?

I agree, this is very much "mists of time".  However, what bugs me the most out of this is how poorly the solution was put in place.  And I'd rather have Joshua either reverse his decision in that thread or fix it.
2410 days, 16 hours, 27 minutes ago
View dungeonmaster's profile
dungeonmaster
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Yes, I've since changed my mind on viewing the diplomacy, being jumped by othrym in New Sinewnew radically altered my perspective on that. I really wanted to know the deals and dealings, and again, it's pure entertainment. People may go back and find where I tell the truth, the half truth and the occasional bold face lie. I have no problem with it, all bold face lies gets you nowhere even if the diplomacy were not visible.
It's great fun to figure out that say on turn 33 MBR s236 didn't in fact set mission to rob because the goal was to get the knife in deeper. That sort of thing makes it all worthwhile. Taking the game seriously is one thing and remembering it's just a game is another.
2408 days, 18 hours, 45 minutes ago
View skiv's profile
skiv
RE: The Taurus War (Championship Match)Write Reply
Hi, that's me again!

Next part of robot chronicles are here:

Turn 56. Squatters race.
I was trying to harvest as many abandoned lizard worlds as I could before JK. Ion storm impeded quick mine sweeping. This turn probably was a heyday of the Cylon race. But cubes were gathering somewhere in this cluster… The secret Cylon-Borg project at #433 was peacefully over. Base returned, fireclouds are chunnelled out. One of the my probes reached Othrym territory at last.

Turn 63. Heroic probe.
DM’s probe jumped through battle area. I did not pay enough attention to this. Clearing liz territory in process. 

Turn 67. Alarm!!!
FCC appeared in the rear at #314 where it shouldn’t to be. Here is a quotation from correspondence with DM: «I owned the planet for a long time. Lizard takes it from me with an LCC. Lizard leaves the game, I re-capture the planet with a probe, planet has barely enough to make a base + FCC. I send PL200 probe labeled "probe recovery" with $$$ to produce tech6 and a firecloud. Rest is history»

Turn 69. Three fleets plan.
SI with Othrym gives me the view of the real situation. I became a spectator of deep space hunting for lizard ships in the void :) DM already transfered some of FCC and cubes to the north-east. Othrym gives me some of skyfires for laying mines at the south. I worked out a plan of capturing #196-#133 sector with the three small fleets.

Turn 72. Invasion.
Cubes are coming from the two sides. First fleet at #207 ready to act. Othrym dropped SI for this turn for taking my one-clan planet #83 before DM.

Turn 76. Tow-attack.
Othrym towed my second fleet to break borg base at #133. Third little fleet sent to hold north-east. Meanwhile a pack of seven cubes looming over my bovinoids at #73 near HW.

Turn 80. Clash of the giants.
Othrym and DM fighting each other. I cherished hope that this will make a building queue to move. Cubes temporarily jumped out of my realm, but fireclouds are stayed in place. I used this time to build bases wherever I could, fill them with fighters, rising defenses up to the limit. SI with JK switched on, some darkwings drifting my space.

To be continued...
2372 days, 14 hours, 49 minutes ago
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jkovalainen
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