Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

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386 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes ago

fantasia

Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question.

in the game I'm playing freighters started in the standard homeworld locations.

My understanding was that your homeworld is the first planet you settle. With that in mind I spent a while picking carefully before I settled anywhere. The planets nearest to me had bad natives or were the wrong temperature. I finally found a suitable world and dropped clans and built a starbase. Unfortunately it has not become "homeworld" starbase. Tech levels are limited to tech seven. I'm guessing one of the planets I rejected was my actual homeworld.

What's the point of being "wandering tribes" if you cannot choose where to make your homeworld, if you are required to settle the closest world you spawn next to no matter how unsuitable it is?

It seems to me that this is a bug and should be changed. I don't want to settle the amorphous world or the 90 temp world. I want to "wander" until I find a homeworld I like. All I have managed to do is waste my first few turns.

386 days, 19 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia,

I believe your understanding is a bit off. Here's an excerpt from a Guide that might be helpful in understanding your issue.

From http://planets.nu/#/howtoplay/g-scenarios:
> Wandering Tribes Starting Locations – This should be set to the value that reflects the exact starting scenario the game should have.
> Use Homeworld Areas – This scenario places the starships for each race in the general area of the planet that would have been a Homeworld in a normal game. The Homeworld Locations parameter is used to determine how the Homeworlds are distributed in the cluster. This is based on the VGAP3 scenario "Wandering Tribes you pick the spots".

386 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes ago

shodan

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

You do not get a Homeworld in "Wandering Tribes", that is one of the challenges in that game type and a problem, if you are on the free version.

You likely have to compromise on your first world, most important is population growth, since you NEED clans. If you do not find a acceptable planet in time you are far behind. If your start planet is to bad, your over-all growth is bad.
Maybe "Wandering Tribes" is not for you? There are several other game-types, maybe try them first?

386 days, 18 hours, 25 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Sorry Shodan, I feel you are mistaken. You DO get a homeworld in wandering tribes games. Even on a trial account. You just don't START with one.

One of your starbases (once built) when you click on it will say "homeworld starbase" and you can upgrade the tech to level 10. I have played wandering tribes games before and this was the case.

Whisperer: That description you quoted seems to be misleading or incomplete at least. A more accurate description would be (Capitalized to emphasize the bits I added);

"This scenario places the starships AND THE PLANET THAT WILL HAVE THE BENEFITS OF A HOMEWORLD for each race in the general area of the planet that would have been a Homeworld in a normal game AND WILL BE A HOMEWORLD IN THIS GAME ONCE COLONIZED.

Again I think this should be changed. Not the description but the way the homeworld is determined. Whatever strategy Shodon has for maximizing his population is not shared by all players. I would like to find a homeworld that suits me. If I miss a few turns of growth searching for a planet with bovinoids or lots of minerals or one that is 50 temp, then that should be possible. In fact I think that's the whole point. Being forced to adopt the nearest planet to your starting location, for me, kind of defeats the point of wandering tribes.

If all the freighters are forced to dump on the nearest world, then the same effect could be achieved by the settings;

Homeworld has starbase : No
Homeworld starting clans : 900,000
Free ships : 6

I would like to be able to choose my homeworld. I think that should be the intention of the wandering tribes scenario.

386 days, 18 hours, 13 minutes ago

shodan

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I see your point. I guess never realized the Homeworld, when I colonized it in a Wandering Tribes game.

386 days, 18 hours, 13 minutes ago

indigo ferrinor

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

As far as I can tell from my experience:
- First planet you colonize is your "howmeorld"
- if you colonize more than one "first" planet at the same time, it is the planet with lowest ID.

Nevertheless, this is only of importance if you are playing the free version and need the HW for tech 10. (I assume the HW SB will grant you tech 10 even in wandering tribes)

In that case you need to choose wisely which planet you colonize first, yes.

If you play "premium version", there is no need to wait with your colonization that long. Just take the first planets you find using as many clans you like. Keeping in mind that you should let your colonists grow.

386 days, 18 hours, 0 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Indigo: First planet your colonize is NOT your homeworld. I thought the same as you until I just proved otherwise just now. I bypassed the first planets and settled a planet with natives further away. My whole point is that there is no benefit at all to choosing wisely the first planet you colonize. You are just wasting time. I will now have to retrace my steps, go back and find the planet that was predetermined to be my homeworld.

On a side note, I do not like the premium version. This game loses a lot of depth if you can just upgrade to tech ten everywhere. On a trial account your homeworld becomes super important. Bovinoid worlds become less valuable in contrast to other natives. You are forced to build a more varied fleet with more tech 7 hulls or ships with weaknesses in speed, beams or torps. I understand the creators need to monetize the game but this is not the way I would choose to do it. I would do something with the campaign features to encourage premium membership instead.

386 days, 17 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Maybe it's the first planet you arrive at, not collonise.

Maybe you need to press the contact button and ask Admin to confirm what they wanted to happen as Admin set these sort of things up.

386 days, 17 hours, 14 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

It's not the first planet you arrive at either. It seems to be the planet that would have been the homeworld in a standard game. It's entirely pre-determined. The freighters are placed randomly near that planet although there may be other planets nearer to your freighters.

386 days, 17 hours, 4 minutes ago

shodan

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

No, I checked my first WT-Game. It was not the first planet colonized and not the first starbase that got the title "Homeworld" and it was not a 50°c world either.
Game:
http://planets.nu/#/sector/221008
- P363 got the title, I colonized it later and build the SB later.

In my second WT-game I was eliminated quite early and never found my "Homeworld".

So I guess, Fantasia is correct, that the "Homeworld" is randomized.

386 days, 17 hours, 0 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I'm not sure what the mechanism is for a "all players start in the middle" WT game. The first time I tried this scenario I died because I hadn't settled a planet in the first five turns.

386 days, 16 hours, 6 minutes ago

yoghurt

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

In the "all players start in the middle" scenario it seem to be the same: homeworld positions are distributed circular as in normal games. You could count close and very close planets to try determining which is a homeworld. Doesn't help for shareware players, as the way is too far to travel. And: I had an Amorph planet as "homeworld".

386 days, 15 hours, 50 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

So in that case the "homeworlds" have only a very limited impact on the game. They only come in to effect when players have expanded to near the outside edge?

I don't like the start in the middle scenario that much anyways. I think it gives too much of an advantage to lizard and fascist players.

386 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

The obvious solution here would be that the homeworld should be the planet where you build your first starbase. I'm not sure how difficult that would be to code, but from a gameplay perspective it's the easiest way to determine where it is.

386 days, 14 hours, 47 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Dazdya: I agree completely.

386 days, 13 hours, 59 minutes ago

admiral rex star

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Purchase a membership for pennies a day... solved. Support the game, the site, the players that play here, the coders, management for bringing us back planets, the guys that spend their time writing and maintaining the manuals, and anything or anyone I'm forgetting that makes planets the greatest turn based strategy game ever made. The hours of entertainment one gets from this site alone, is worth the pennies a day and I don't really understand not supporting those efforts.

Purchase a membership!

386 days, 13 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia,

Thank you on the information on how Homeworlds work with Wandering Tribes style games. Something should be updated in that guide, and possibly in the main docs as well. We'll consider this, and see what changes are required.

As for the crappy Homeworld state (not 50 degrees, can have bad natives), that's an issue that would need to be taken up with Joshua. You might want to use the CONTACT button to inform him. It would be appreciated if you would forward any response to this thread.

386 days, 13 hours, 28 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Admiral Rex: The problem with supporting this site with "pennies per day" is that when you are in abject poverty you simply cannot afford it. There are plenty of poor in the world that earn less than pennies per day. I am in the position of not earning enough money for all the things I need much less any of the things I want.

Then there are young people or anonymous people with no access to or desire to use credit cards or online payment mechanisms. We want as many people playing this game as possible. We don't want to limit players to a particular demographic that happens to have disposable income and a willingness to spend that income online.

These days every online service really needs to be free at the point of use. I would be happy to see adverts or sponsorship take a role funding the site. There could also be a donation page so that people can pay a little while they are flush. The site operators could go create a youtube channel with some gameplay tips and tricks, a patreon page with some bonus features or a gofundme campaign if they want to do any specific upgrades that might cost. There are lots of ways to generate funding before you start to exclude people that have no money. that will just reduce the number of quality players and the potential advertising revenue.

The other problem with a premium account is the one I mentioned to do with the trial account limitations adding to the game and not detracting from it. The game is simply better on a trial account. The only downside to it is that you have a disadvantage when playing against premium players. If I had a premium account then I would find everything all weird. I could build any ship I wanted anywhere and this would make the game less challenging and less fun. No doubt I would only ever play using my alt accounts.

Whisperer: I wasn't actually complaining about the crappy state of the default homeworlds. I was complaining that you can't actually go out and look for a super awesome homeworld. I sent a message to the admins already and I will certainly forward any response.

386 days, 13 hours, 4 minutes ago

warbrand

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Not to sound harsh or change the topic of the thread, But if I couldn't afford the roughly 8.3 cents a day to play as a premium? I think the time I would have been playing would be better spent trying to improve my real life situation.

386 days, 13 hours, 3 minutes ago

yoghurt

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia:
I agree that the shareware version is in some ways more demanding and more fun to play. You are much happier if You find the right natives and You are screwed if You don't ;) Yet it has a different strength balance of the races. The fighter races are even stronger as they just need T10-hulls. To increase the value of small and medium size ships it might need the engine shield bonus as in the old days, which is not available on .nu (but that has been discussed long and widely).

386 days, 12 hours, 46 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Warbrand: Spoken like a true capitalist. Lots of people have zero disposable income. Leisure time is necessary to unwind and relax. If I spent all my leisure time looking for a better job I would burn out very quickly. Then I would be unable to earn even the modest income that I have.

My boss agrees with your ethos though. He doesn't think we should have rest breaks or holiday pay. He thinks our children should get jobs and that he works harder than the rest of us by sitting in his office and treating other people like slaves. I'm sure if word ever got out that I had a premium membership at planets.nu he would conclude we were all being paid far too much and would cut our salaries by 8 pence a day.

Yoghurt: I have found the best races to play on a trial account are ones that have a killer ship at hull tech 7 or less. For me these are the Privateers and the Robots.

386 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia and @Yoghurt,

I agree that Premium vs. non-Premium changes the playing field.

You might want to have a look at this:

https://planets.uservoice.com/forums/136520-general/suggestions/2318417-make-some-games-for-non-premium-players-only

@Warhound,

> if I couldn't afford the roughly 8.3 cents a day to play as a premium? I think the time I would have been playing would be better spent trying to improve my real life situation

There are also a considerable number of people who can't use or don't like PayPal (FYI, I'm in the second group). PayPal is the only payment method Joshua advertises. In the past, I've asked about other payment methods, but I never received a response.

There are also locations where that $0.083 per day is a significant portion of a person's daily income, although the fact that @Fantasia has a computer (or smartphone) and Internet service indicates he's not in one of those locations.

386 days, 12 hours, 29 minutes ago

admiral rex star

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Free doesn't make the game better, those are the accounts that blank out 3 races a game, at younger levels of play.

TBH, the two groups should be separated. Free and Premium.

386 days, 12 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Now I know how republicans must feel about me.

386 days, 12 hours, 20 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Whisperer: Fantasia needs a smartphone and a computer to do "her" job. That said you are correct. I don;t live in any of those places.

Admiral Rex: Try playing on a trial account for a while. You will see why it's better. Also I have seen premium players join games and then drop. This behavior is not limited to trial account players.

386 days, 12 hours, 11 minutes ago

admiral rex star

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Not limited, of course, just more prevalent.

386 days, 12 hours, 1 minutes ago

admiral rex star

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I'm going to say, that tech 7 accounts are worse in every way. From cheating to quitting.(In General) There is nothing invested. They are also a waste of time as an opponent. Why would I want to play with a non-premium player? Am I wrong? In general, my odds of a better experience for my 6 months are with premium players.

386 days, 11 hours, 55 minutes ago

warbrand

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I am not sure if I fall under the description of a Capitalist or not.

I can tell ya may first job was a hod carrier for a mason when I was 14 years old. If you are familiar with the work you will understand that I am no stranger to hard work.

Over the last 35 years I have done my share of doing without to better my life. Now that I am almost 50 the fruits of that labor have paid off. I am not looking down my nose at anyone but more going off personal experience.

If your that broke and your priorities is internet space ships over improving your life, we will definitely not find any common ground.

386 days, 10 hours, 5 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Warbrand: I'm not wanting to look down my nose at you either. I'm sure if you had stayed in school at 14 instead of working you would know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Don't get me wrong though I'm not looking to find any common ground with you. Quite the opposite in fact. During a conversation about where the homeworlds are located in the wandering tribes scenario, anybody who's best contribution is to criticise players for using the trial account feature instead of paying, followed by a lecture about how poor people are the authors of their own poverty because they spend too long playing computer games, then all topped off with a boast about how hard you've worked all your life and how wealthy you are now, is not someone I would ever expect to be on my wavelength.

I just hope that one day socialists will come and take everything off you. That'll teach you to work hard. Maybe that way we will have a proper education system where 14 years olds can learn grammar instead of being forced to work on building sites.

386 days, 9 hours, 30 minutes ago

warbrand

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

My apology there, I must have misunderstood

Fantasia
ABOUT 3 HOURS AGO • IGNORE • LIKE
Warbrand: Spoken like a true capitalist

I thought it was a invitation to explain further.

As far as the typo I must have overlooked that one your're trying to get a point across. I will be far more careful next time.

I do hope those nasty socialists don't come and take everything I have ... you make them sound like very terrible people.

386 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

No it wasn't an invitation to elaborate. Just after the part you quoted there was an entire paragraph where I was scornfully challenging your capitalist mantra. It was more an invitation for you to look inside your heart at the mean spirited error guiding your self serving opinions.

Nobody can say if "socialists" are terrible people. Socialism isn't just one thing. it's a broad category that describes absolutely anybody that thinks we can "do better than capitalism". There are as many different ideas about what socialism could look like as there are socialists to voice them. Some of them support higher taxation to pay for schools. Others support a cap on wealth and a maximum income.

It's just like how some capitalists think the rich should pay more taxes to pay for schools whilst others think the poor should all just be exterminated.

Do you see how people can have the same political label and yet have wildly different opinions? Trying to lump them all together as all being the same is overly simplistic don't you think?

386 days, 8 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

>go back and find the planet that was predetermined to be my homeworld.<

This is interesting and I wonder how it is possible when there is a version of wandering tribes where all ships start at the same location.

If their is an algorithm that determines the closest planet is your HW (or whatever is used), how does this work in that version of WT?

386 days, 8 hours, 15 minutes ago

yoghurt

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Tom: at the the moment in WT format there are no homeworlds assigned to any race. During the creation of the random map the definition of homeworlds seems to be done just as in normal games. Only that those planets don't have 50° and may have natives... And of course You can only gues where they are.

386 days, 7 hours, 41 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Tom: According to Yoghurt all the homeworlds are arranged in the same circular pattern regardless of weather the freighters all start in the center or near the homeworld locations.

386 days, 7 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I guess that kind of fits with the scenario, but will any designated 'HW' be defined as such for any race?

Could a lucky HYPer race get 11 HW's?

386 days, 7 hours, 0 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I have no idea but I would guess so. In a normal game if I were to take over a homeworld it would still let me upgrade the tech to ten.

386 days, 5 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

"Fantasia: My understanding was that your homeworld is the first planet you settle."

@Fantasia: I was actually the first person to research this and provided the information to the community... and apparently a year later the WIKI is still the only place this is documented.

http://www.vgaplanets.org/index.php/Wandering_Tribes

ONE YEAR AGO; "Glyn: With start location for the STF's set to 'Homeworld Locations', the nearest planet to your start location is your Homeworld."

386 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Glyn: You were mistaken last time. Recall the graphic I sent you?

https://s8.postimg.cc/i04a121f9/Details.png

386 days, 3 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia: Of course I recall... that is why way back in 2017 I added "UNCONFIRMED INFORMATION" to the WIKI once a counter example was provided.

I didn't mean to imply I was providing the known answer... which should be obvious since in order to provide the link to the WIKI article I had to search for it and look at it and kinda hard to miss the disclaimer.

Now you may think they shouldn't document things that are unknown... but I think that is part of the problem of why they are unknown.

For example Documentation doesn't tell you what requires fuel to work all the time... just a few did last I looked, every time I mention one that does state that it requires fuel... Whisperer goes in and removes that information from it immediately and then gloats about it.

So THREE times now... we discovered something you could do without fuel that required the out-of-fuel document to be updated... and just today it appears there is a fourth incident where this documenting-by-not-documenting logic has back fired.

Bit crazy to expect one person to research it all, so we need to one by one knock them off a list.

As of right now... there could be dozens of things you can do without fuel... and we may NEVER know until a list is made and gone through.

Documentation would have been the best route to do this... instead years are going by and we are stuck three feet from the finish line.

386 days, 3 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Speaking of the first thread that this came up in... maybe Kittyhawk has more ideas to try.

386 days, 0 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I did some research; https://imgur.com/a/ivn1cVI

@Fantasia: Looking into the example from last year, I noticed it doesn't obey the verycloseplanets variable or the closeplanets variable (you can only tell if its too low, not too high if otherplanetsminhomeworlddist is <162 ly).

Maybe these auto system generated Sectors aren't using the the same method as Custom Sectors use.... but more likely it was a bug... and was fixed between the time that Sector was created and when I ran my first round of tests.
___

People in auto system generated Sectors, can you check if the verycloseplanets is the same as the planets you have within 81 ly of your Homeworld. If within 81 ly to 162 ly is less than closeplanets setting, mention that as well.

385 days, 23 hours, 57 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Glyn: I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say. I looked at your research and it makes little sense to me. I don't know how the WIKI works or why having zero fuel is relevant.

Could you please just confirm that the following statement is false;

"The nearest planet to your start location is your Homeworld,"

As you can see from kittyhawks game, this is not the case.

We have also determined in this thread that it's not the first planet you land colonists on either, nor the first planet where you build a starbase.

Our working theory for the moment is that the homeworld is a predetermined planet based on which planet would otherwise have been your homeworld in a normal game. This planet does not have to be well stocked with resources or an appropriate temperature. Also since the freighters seem to start in a random location "near" this planet, it may or may not be the closest planet to your starting location.

If you feel any of this is wrong or if you have anything extra to add then please do so.

385 days, 22 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia, Glyn likes to complain about the site documentation. If he finds something not quite right he likes to bring up other mistakes as well Even though it may not be relevant in the thread he brings it up in.

The documentation team are volenteers and don't have access to the information that Admin have. And as Admin rarely answer any of these questions they have to build up the information slowly.

385 days, 22 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia: I changed the map settings to help isolate the planet that is the Homeworld... the Starmaps are generated based off Homeworld locations.

'verycloseplanets' variable is how many planets are within 1 Turn distance away(not counting Warp Well sliding).

'closeplanets' variable is how many planets are 2 Turns distance away

Then all other planets are from 0-X ly away from all Homeworlds. Normally it is set to 155 ly.
_ _ _

"Fantasia: We have also determined in this thread that it's not the first planet you land colonists on either, nor the first planet where you build a starbase."

Well... not THIS thread.... in Kittyhawks thread from last year... when I ran my first round of research since no one else would bother.
_ _ _

"Fantasia: Our working theory for the moment is that the homeworld is a predetermined planet based on which planet would otherwise have been your homeworld in a normal game"

That is literally how it works... not theory... as that is how the Starmap creation code works.
_ _ _

Anyhow... how the first thread ended was me saying "Glyn: Ok, so I still have to see if I can figure out how to predict where the Homeworld planet is placed in relation to your ships start location though."

So that is what I was researching... thus why I measured the distance to the Homeworld and stated the distance boundaries I observed.

We need to determine the minimum and maximum distance your STFs can start from the Homeworld. Then look at median etc.

We know there is a 81 ly circle around the Homeworld and that it has 'verycloseplanets' variables value amount of planets... this may sometimes help determine which planet is the Homeworld, along with 'closeplanets'.

Determining where ENEMY Homeworlds are is naturally going to work for determining where your own Homeworld is.

Like I said in the first thread, I don't want to research this... it may not be possible without using the same method to find enemy HWs based on the Starmap settings.

385 days, 22 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Glyn,

> all other planets are from 0-X ly away from all Homeworlds. Normally it is set to 155 ly.

Nope. All other planets are at least X light-years away from all Homeworlds. By default, X is set to 155.

Thank you for your criticism of our documentation. From someone, like yourself, who has absolutely no professional experience in the field, I see that as an indication that we're moving in the right direction.

385 days, 22 hours, 4 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

"Whisperer: By default, X is set to 155."

@Whisperer: X is not set to anything... what part of 0-X is confusing for you?

385 days, 21 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

> what part of 0-X is confusing for you?

None at all. Alas, the same isn't true of the writer of that gibberish.

385 days, 21 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

There looks to be three settings for Wandering Tribes.

Homeworld areas
Centre
Random

The HW setting may be different for all of these.

But Homeworld area sounds like there may be a tech 10 planet near by.

The others may also have Homeworld at 11 points where they start normally in 11 player games.

How do you identify a HW? Apart from building a SB and you get HW with the SB.

Does a planet without a SB ID as a HW when you colonise it?

385 days, 15 hours, 28 minutes ago

marceline

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Martinr: I think building a starbase is the only way to ID a homeworld.

Glyn: would it be reasonable to assume the mechanism for generating "verycloseplanets" is also the mechanism for positioning the freighters on the first turn?

Site Admin: This sucks. Wandering tribes should be exactly that. What I want to do is wander about aimlessly like the 12 Colonies from Battlestar Glactica and find a perfect and distant Earth to call my new home. Instead we have to colonize all the nearest planets and don't get any say whatsoever which one will be called our home.

:(

385 days, 2 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Whisperer: "Glyn: Then all other planets are from 0-X ly away from all Homeworlds."

X is not a variable... generally variables are lowercase... and before you lash out, just Google it before you make a fool of yourself like usual.

X is an unknown number to me that is the maximum distance the remaining planets can be from the Homeworlds.

I can't believe I have to explain something so simple this well in order for you to even comprehend anything... and that is assuming you finally figure out your reading comprehension *#&@ing sucks.

385 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Glyn: How long did that last post take you to write?

385 days, 1 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Just a reminder that it isn't just non-Premium people this affects.

The Campaign-mode ship Zilla Class Battlecarrier that fights with one extra fighter bay for each Homeworld owned.
____

"Marceline: would it be reasonable to assume the mechanism for generating "verycloseplanets" is also the mechanism for positioning the freighters on the first turn?"

@Marceline: Well I wouldn't assume it wasn't worth testing!

So far the best answer I have is you start within 60 ly of your Homeworld... but what you could do is copy a Public Wandering Tribes Sectors settings into a Private one and investigate how far at most they start from their Homeworlds to be safe.

I know how Custom Sector Hosts could make it worse.... you increase verycloseplanets and set otherplanetsminhomeworlddist way lower.

A Host could set verycloseplanets to 0, but that would make Homeworlds stick out like sore thumbs unless other settings are altered to make massive gaps around a single planet common!

Wasn't even thinking about how this really doesn't fit the Wandering Tribes scenario... just focused on figuring out how it works.

With that in mine... we should just skip to requesting Admins change it.
___

They could keep the Starmap generation the same... but just alter when planet becomes the Homeworld in a way we get to decide.

First planet colonized would mean not colonizing planets till you find what you want... while first Starbase makes the most sense to me as it is simple and not a mistake you can make on you first Turn (Land and Disassemble on a crap planet).

But... when you think about it... what Homeworld?... Wandering Tribes would have left their Homeworld correct? I suppose space could be like a forest and they get go around in circles and end up where they started.

385 days, 1 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia: No idea. The post above apparently took 22 minutes though.

384 days, 18 hours, 18 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

Glyn: First starbase built is actually a much better idea than first planet colonized. Good call.

Another alternative would be a button that you can only click once that says "Designate Homeworld." This could be further improved by having the button grayed out until a minimum population size is reached or unless certain parameters are met such as the correct temperature reached or a certain amount of cash available.

You are correct to say that the wandering tribes have probably left their original homeworld. This could be corrected by calling the new homeworld somethiung else, like "Capital World"

384 days, 10 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

I suppose we could make a http://planets.UserVoice.com docket for changing Wandering Tribes... I just used my last vote something else though so if It'd be great if someone with spare votes would make a docket for this.

384 days, 9 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Fantasia,

I can think of two possible resolutions to this that will have minimum change to the Client and no change to the Host:

1. Give a visual indication of an uncolonized Homeworld if it's within 81 LY of a ship.
2. Give a visual indication of a Homeworld after you colonize it. Actually, that could be considered to already be in place. An uncolonized Homeworld should have thousands of KT of all four minerals. Have you checked for this?

Would either of these solve the problem for you?

----------------

@Marceline,

> would it be reasonable to assume the mechanism for generating "verycloseplanets" is also the mechanism for positioning the freighters on the first turn?

I just finished running some statistics on this. Based on the information I have, the mechanism is similar, but different.

From 110 samples (one sample being the distance from the fleet to the designated homeworld), here's what I found:

Minimum: 7.1 LY
Maximum: 65.1 LY
Average: 37.5 LY
Median: 38.7 LY
Standard Deviation: 13.1 (for the statisticians out there)

The Minimum distance is similar to the 7 LY minimum distance between planets. I don't expect that a larger sample set would drop this to below 7 LY.

The Maximum is far short of the 81 LY for "verycloseplanets". I'm thinking that a larger sample set would yield values approaching 67 LY, but I don't have time to test this.

The distribution of distances is quite even. I'd need to get the distribution of "verycloseplanets" to compare to, but I think they're very different.

I'll see about getting some of this information into the documentation. My time's tight right now, so it could take a few days.

384 days, 7 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

"Whisperer: An uncolonized Homeworld should have thousands of KT of all four minerals. Have you checked for this?"

Why would he need to since I already did?

"Glyn: These planets however are nothing like the Homeworld settings... they range from barely any resources and cold, to the example my cursor is hovering over in this picture."; https://imgur.com/a/ivn1cVI

I also disagree that an uncolonized Homeworld should have thousands of KT of all four minerals... that doesn't make any sense for Wandering Tribes to have, nor did VGAP3 do it that way.

384 days, 7 hours, 31 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Whisperer: Thank you for running more of the tests I recommended be run.
__

So in conclusion everyone...

It looks safe to say were looking to identify a planet about 39 ly from your ships.

What you do then, is draw a 81 ly circle around that planet and count how many planets fall inside of it and compare it to verycloseplaents total (unless otherplanetsminhomeworlddist is <81).

Then draw a 162 ly circle.

Now the closeplanets total should be the same number as the planets you find between 81 ly and 162 ly if otherplanetsminhomeworlddist is >162ly... otherwise there might be extra ones.

Try this on all the planets within 66 ly of your ships (81 ly if you're paranoid), and hopefully only one will meet the Starmap settings so it will not be a mystery.

384 days, 6 hours, 3 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@whisperer:Would either of these solve the problem for you?

Not at all no. I'm not too fussed about just seeing a homeworld. I want to choose it with my colonization moves. Like this...

"Gee wizz, I looked at 50 planets already dropping 1 clan on each and none of them were any good but finally here is a nice bovinoid planet with a good temperature. I'll make this my homeworld by building my first starbase here. That way I'll be able to upgrade all the techs to level 10"

Does that make sense?

Glyn: The homeworld planet definitely does not have to have 4k of all the minerals. It certainly doesn't in the WT game I am playing currently.

383 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

> The homeworld planet definitely does not have to have 4k of all the minerals.

Verified. That's Broken. If you're going to build Homeworld clusters, and designate a planet as a Homeworld, it should be provisioned as a Homeworld.

> I'm not too fussed about just seeing a homeworld. I want to actually choose it with my colonization moves.

Considering the above, I find I must agree with you. Not only that, but once you select a planet as a homeworld, whether it's by clicking a button, or building a starbase, it should be provisioned properly. A "medium" meteor could do the job :)

383 days, 20 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

But does a HW have to be provisioned as s HW?

Classic CoM looking for Earth would now find it polluted all minerals in the surface practically removed. And would we have the tech to get to tech 10?

If the Earth was about to die and we had to put everything into space ships would we expect the first habitual planet to have the minerals and be able to get to tech 10 tech (if we were not paying premium).

The whole point of Wandering tribes is you are screwed and have been forced to put you whole race into space ships and sent to find a new world to live on.

But in this case it's not happened with one race but multiple.

So you need to find a planet to colonise and find more to kill everyone else then get to 200/ 250 planets to win a game.

This wandering tribe scenario is a bolt on to the standard game so generated a number of HW planets at set points as an anchor point for some games.

You only start with high minerals in standard games.

Coincidentally the HW can be used by non premium to build tech 10. But in WT it looks to be not temp 50 / 100 for the race or full of minerals.

So non premium cannot easily ID the tech 10 planet. Which gives non premium a further disadvantage.

Maybe non premium need to recognise that Wandering Tribes gives them even more of a challenge and it be documented as that?

383 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes ago

danielr

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

OK through a test game I have confirmed that yes the HW position is the standard starting position for an 11 player game. It is not 50 temperature for non Crystaline or 100 for Crystaline. It has random mineral levels and may or may not have natives on it and you only find out its a HW when you build a SB.

This will make it hard for Non Premium to ID it. And be impossible in a game where every one starts in the middle so non Premium are severely handicapped.

But it may have convinced me to try a WT game in the future. But not as non premium.

383 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes ago

fantasia

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

As things stand it's not a huge disadvantage being unable to ID the HW. You get six freighters and it's probably going to be one of the first six planets.

I don't particularly mind if the temperature or minerals are wrong. All I care about is being able to choose it. If a meteor crashes every time you select a homeworld that would seem a little unrealistic. Rather it should be on the player to pick a good world. There is lots to consider, minerals, temperature, natives, nearby planets. It will always be a compromise. If you get easy access to everything you need then where is the challenge in that?

As long as all 12 players have broadly the same quality of planets within range then everything can be both difficult and fair.

383 days, 9 hours, 30 minutes ago

yoghurt

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Danielr: the lacking homeworld problem in a WT-game with all races starting in the centre actually made me upgrade to premium, though before that I was fine with shareware. Yet, a more severe problem with the centre starting position is the FoF timing in server-generated games. In that game it killed three or four races before they could even get a foot on the ground.

383 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

If you look at the PLS updates they fixed the FoF for WT so that incremental FoF does not start until turn 30 becaus of that.

379 days, 1 hours, 39 minutes ago

sonic hedgehog

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

@Admiral Rex Star - "Purchase a membership for pennies a day... solved. Support the game, the site, the players that play here, the coders, management for bringing us back planets"
Actually, the best way to solve your statement is to have a switch which a registered player can set before the start of a game to restrict his race to "non-registered" for that game. As it has been said, playing non-reg brings a few different skills in to play. SB building is based more around Native bonus and less on Minerals. Transporting Engines etc to be reused at another SB. making use of the low tech ships. etc etc.
Someone thats paid their money should have this option rather then setting up a 2nd account

378 days, 22 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

> SB building is based more around Native bonus and less on Minerals. Transporting Engines etc to be reused at another SB. making use of the low tech ships. etc etc.

All of which works better with the PLS build queue than the Production queue, and MUCH better than the Priority queue.

378 days, 22 hours, 56 minutes ago

mcnimble

RE: Wandering Tribes Homeworld Question. in the game I'm...

There are Campaign ships that have effects based on the number of home worlds owned by the player. Wouldn't want to play a WT Campaign (if ever that is created) to find out that the effect is zero.

First SB built seems like a good option.

Pressing a button can be delayed indefinitely, disallowing said owner of the Campaign ship to steal your HW, which would also be unfair.

PS: I'm fairly sure a HW planet is named like that when you own it. Every game where a HW is destroyed and taken over will tell us whether this is indeed the case.