Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

« Back

1964 days, 11 hours, 54 minutes ago

Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Which race if played right do you consider superior, just curious as a newby

1964 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Crystals.

1964 days, 11 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Lizards.

1964 days, 11 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Any race but as a newbie Colonies, Lizards, Feds

1964 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

The one that doesn't drop out.

#1 path to victory at planets.nu - don't drop out.

1964 days, 11 hours, 21 minutes ago

ville kauppinen

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

... and cross your fingers to be placed next to dropouts ...

1964 days, 11 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Any game where Cyborg aren't public enemy one, then the Cyborg are the superior race technically.

Depends a lot on the game rules too.

In 30 person Melee games for example, everything changes because of how crowded things are and how few ships can be built before Ship Limit is hit.

1964 days, 11 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

resistance is futile

1964 days, 10 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

I'd recommend robots as the ultimate newbie race. Lizards and Feds still need to produce sooo many starbases, which newbies often don't do. Also, in combat, they need to worry about "fleet management", cloaking, etc etc etc.

Robots, its ... build starbase, queue carrier. Free fighters, and 4Xmines.

Easy mode.

1964 days, 10 hours, 43 minutes ago

ville kauppinen

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

With new minerals Bots are one of the hardest races to play. Very little duranium, not easy to build freighters AND baseships not to mention Merlins.

Can easily damage your early game economy badly.

1964 days, 10 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Robots run out of fuel soon if not played properly. But still. It is a good newbie race.

1964 days, 10 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Sorry, didn't realize we were talking Newbie races. Robots are the easiest. Playing the toasters is simple. Lots of big mine fields, build big carriers and blow shit up.

1964 days, 10 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Oh. and hope to hell you don't have a Crystal player near you!

1964 days, 10 hours, 25 minutes ago

ville kauppinen

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Just remember boys and girls that the mineral richness has been changed and toasters require massive amounts of duranium + fuel.

And those are not easy to setup as a complete noob.

1964 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Er... either my English comprehension sucks, or you're all off. He is asking (as a curious newbie) which race out of all can be considered superior in skilled hands.

The correct answer - as much as I pains me to admit it - is "Borg". In expert hands, it's certainly the most powerful race out there.

1964 days, 9 hours, 18 minutes ago

macros the black

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Sorry Emperor, I disagree. Any race can be superior in skilled hands... ok, maybe except the Birdmen ;-)

1964 days, 9 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

As someone who plays the Birds I would suggest that they are not an easy or simple race to play and leave it at that :>

1964 days, 9 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Ok... how about we make an AI for each Race, then run a couple million simulations??

Joshua... yeah, I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come in Saturday.

1964 days, 8 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

There is quite a bit of consensus amongst the expert players: BORG.
All things being equal, the borg are the strongest race, and by a fair margin.

1964 days, 6 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Well sure, if his question is "which is the best race" then it is borg, hands down.

If the "just curious as a newby" relates to his race choice, then ... not borg.

As to the new mineral richness issues, I still say the easiest race as a newbie is the robots, since it would *have* to be one of the fighter races, and *all* of them will be hurt by the decreased minerals.

The only contender I see are the colonies, since the cobol negates fuel issues.

1964 days, 6 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Colonies are MUCH easier to play especially for newbies. Not having to bother about fuel is a huge deal. Also, they can circumvent single mineral shortages (Geminis make excellent freighters if you're Dur-light), and they have the Lady Royale in case of a cash crunch.

Robots are actually pretty difficult to play correctly, since managing your infrastructure is much harder. And if you're short on Duranium around you and fail to recognize the danger (beginners won't), you can quickly end up in a dead-end scenario.

1963 days, 14 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Yep. With Robots you have to first build a Merlin (which costs duranium) and large freighters (which cost duranium) so that you have enough resources to build enough carriers (which cost duranium). Later in the game you need more molybdenum though because heavy phaser, warp 9 Golem costs as much molybdenum as duranium. Molybdenum is also needed in building fighters and starbases.

I guess all races, but especially Robots, should build Merlin(s) early enough in these mineral poor maps to avoid that dead-end scenario.

1963 days, 14 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

The strongest race in expert hands is the Fascists.

They have the ultimate anti-cloaking device, their large-fuel tank cloakers can tactically defeat a horde of Gorbies by sucking up all available fuel and stranding them, and one of the most effective defenses against cloakers--starbases--are useless against them. Also, due to having cheap ships and tons of cash, the Fascists and the Lizards are the only races that can accomplish creation of tons of starbases and churn out lots of high tech ships before the ship count. It's been described elsewhere how their Vickies will win in the PBP exchange if glory devices are used.

Enjoy 1 April day.

1963 days, 13 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

This doesn't have anything to do with 1 april. In one of my past games i've dispatched a biocide - shiny new and ladden with like 100--120 fighters - by a single vic without loosing that vic. Actually - several times in a row.

1963 days, 13 hours, 20 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

And beyond that, Fascists have also access to one of the mightiest weapons in echocluster - the small transport!

1963 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Nay, that one only looks good in Tim-score - to take part of a sdsf in filling ship slots and frighten enemies with a massive capital ships count. Doesn't work with milscore, though.

1963 days, 12 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

I guess my newbie game as the robots was before the lower mineral density issue arose. Since the low mineral changes I've only played torp races, so perhaps my recommendation was skewed. I'll have to try another kick at the old tin cans with the new mineral setups and get back to you all :)

1963 days, 12 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Iso-T is absolutely correct. The small transport is one of the secrets to the Fascist's power. Colonize a planet, pillage 6k megacredits off of it, build a starbase on the planet, churn out small transports, and repeat.

What you get is a nightmare for a "big race" like the Cyborg, whom you pillage to death for more cash and more small transports. A Biocide will, of course, stop it easily (you build Vickies for the Biocides, as Fkite points out), as will Cyborg Fireclouds. But it's tactically frustrating for the Cyborg player to use a sledgehammer to swat a fly, so to speak, and tactically impossible to put that Biocide everywhere at once, or to use his Fireclouds in both defense and a chunnel network.

1963 days, 12 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Ya know, someone's going to read this later and not realize it's the first of April.

1963 days, 11 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

I agree with Glyn and Mentar in regards to the Cyborg (upgraded for campaing) being the best option for a skilled player.

Assimilation = every assimilated planet becomes like a home world (lots of megacredits).

Probe = hyperjump to distant planets and assimilate the population or use to find your foe to bring bombs on target via warp chunnel.

Firecloud = warp chunnel around the galaxy minimizing fuel consumption. Also, very useful in consolidating forces by warping in all available warships to one target.

Upgraded Explorer = cheap early warship capable of having a firecloud initiate a warp chunnel to it.

Upgraded Destroyer = cheap early warship capable of chunneling to a probe. Useful to disrupt another races progression early in the game.

The main con is not having a real defense against the privateers, except for laying tons of mines. I recommended killing off any privateer player asap before they grow too big.

1963 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

The Borg weakness is early game. They are very difficult to keep alive in the early game if someone stomps on them quickly. That said, they are amazing at launching comebacks because they can create a new home world anywhere with nothing more than a single hyper jumper.

1963 days, 10 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

In the most skilled venue: Borg, Privateer, Rebel.
In a fairly skilled venue: Borg, Robot, Crystal.
In a noob's hands: Colonies.
In a skilled diplomat's hands: Anything but the Borg, and sometimes maybe even them.

1963 days, 9 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Why is it that people seem to agree the Colonies are the easiest race to play ?

1963 days, 9 hours, 58 minutes ago

ville kauppinen

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Cheap and one of the best carrier in the game, unlimited fuel, free fighters, no problem from regular mines.

1963 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

If I had to win one game, versus skilled players, I would choose the Borg first, their chunnel ability trumps all else in a tight game. Rebels second, with my favorite carrier and best HYPing ship, combined with planet immunity. Colonies third, sweeping mine fields, plus unlimited fuel and a large carrier.
I just don't find the Pirate that worrisome in a skilled game, unless they're teamed with a good race that can sweep mine fields for them.

1963 days, 9 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Well that leads me to ask what is it that makes the Birds, Rebels and Privateers appear so weak ?

1963 days, 9 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Since most games here are max ally = 1, there is no superior race. Diplomacy trumps any/all racial advantages.

All cloaker/crystal + big carrier combos are equal. The only people really left out are the Feds. But, Feds + any non-cloaker is equal to those others.

I don't mean to insult you (original poster), but your question exposes you as a newby. The difference between newbies and veterans is that veterans realize that the game is 1/4 each:

Luck
Race
Economics
Diplomacy

Now, in the max ally = 0 championship game, Fear The Borg.

In a 3 player teams game, Lizard+Borg+Crystal trump all others.

1963 days, 8 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

To be fair to the original poster, he mentioned he was a newby in the first sentence. As an experienced player I would disagree that all combos are equal. I find that a simplification, and not correct. They become MORE equal when combining their abilities, but in a game of equally experienced players would you still contend the Borg-Lizard combo has zero advantage over Rebel-Bird team? Doubt it.

1963 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Yes I am a newby thats why I am asking these questions.

1963 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes ago

praetor

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

I tend to believe each player should pick a race that fits their particular style, and that will be the 'superior' race(s) for that player.. Some races are just better adapted to guerilla warfare, and others are better adapted to more traditional tactics. Find the balance of strengths and weaknesses that best suit you. When you have a better understanding of the game as a whole, then move on to other races to change things up.

1963 days, 7 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

@Mjs68508

That is an answer i'd expect from someone who doesn't understand statistics.

Luck - Balances out in average over many games unless you claim that the algorithms bias the randomness in the game to one race over another.

Diplomacy - Also is race independent, with the exception of maybe the borg due to their reputation to being the strongest race.

Economics - Based primarily on skill, with some attachment to a particular race's abilities and ship list and with some diplomacy thrown in. Primarily this has two components, race and player skill. Diplomacy plays a minor role in economic development for the most part. Racial differences will be considered in the race component, since that is what you've challenged.

Now given that these are all in equal amounts as you state, that still leaves the race component. If one race's abilities and/or ship list is superior then in the hands of an equally skilled player, that race will win a certain percentage more. No one is stating that they will dominate and win always. But statistically they will come out ahead more than their share. And in that one race will and can be superior.

So if you want to win, and if you are skilled, and if you simply want to number crunch to increase your odds. Then one race will stand out ahead. Not a newbish question.

You did however leave out a very important category.

Strategic capability

1963 days, 7 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

That said, i'd rather play a race i enjoy than to get an extra statistical 2% chance of victory due to my race choice.

1963 days, 6 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

I play to have fun. I enjoy a variety of different races and so just play them.

1963 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Dimensia:

"If one race's abilities and/or ship list is superior then in the hands of an equally skilled player, that race will win a certain percentage more. No one is stating that they will dominate and win always. But statistically they will come out ahead more than their share. And in that one race will and can be superior."

You are simply wrong. It may be true for computers, but not for people. Like Praetor pointed out, playing style is very important.

Example 1: Chess is an almost symmetrical game. If I play 50 games as black and 50 games as white you would expect similar results due to your precious statistics. However, it is likely I will win 40 games as black and 10 games as white against an opponent with the same ability as me. (I regularly beat A players as black and regularly lose to C players as white.)

Example 2: I have 1 game where I have 3 planets near my HW, 1 with good natives/temperature. With race #1, I am losing that game. I have another game with 8 nearby planets with 6 good natives/temperature planets and am winning. With race #2 I am winning that game. Your statistics say that race #2 is a better race. I say I was luckier in game #2. In a single game, luck dominates over statistics. I sincerely doubt that the original poster was planning on signing up with 10 ID's to play 100 games so he would have average luck.

I was encouraging the original poster to realize that all races are basically equal in a max ally = 1 environment and concentrate on developing good economic and diplomatic skills, as well as good combat skills. In addition, new players need to know that luck can swing widely in this game, also. A newbie asks, "Which race is best." A veteran asks questions pertaining to combat, diplomacy, economics, etc."

1963 days, 1 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Anyone who feels that all races are equal in this game should be forced to play his next 10 games as the Empire.

The Empire are fun, but unless you get lucky they aren't a powerhouse. If you can survive the early game you have a shot, depending on what diplomacy you manage to pull-off.

Single games are not a refutation of statistics. We can look at the site statistics and see certain races win more often than others. Unless you are suggesting that Borg and Privateers tend to get lucky starts more often, and you would need to define how that happens, you are forced to assume that every race, on average, has the same number of lucky and unlucky starts. That being said, there are clear trends that show certain races out-performing others (the Campaign add-ons were intended to help balance this).

1963 days, 0 hours, 15 minutes ago

ville kauppinen

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

Empire is not that bad and next game will be Empire again ;) One "true loss", one ally loss and perhaps another ally loss coming as well since he dropped while on countdown but we'll see how that goes.

I'd say Empire needs tactics on top of diplomacy. Don't try to expand as soon as possible, lay low, offer intel and make yourself useful to your neighbours. I'm sure no-one can say no to (empty) promises of SSD for example :D

1962 days, 22 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

In a max ally = 0 game, the Empire can be tough. But, once you Dark Sense, it is hard to live without being a voyeur. They can be a lot of fun. And, with the Campaign advantages, they get a lot of help.

But, that is all moot. The environment at planets.nu is max ally = 1. So, the original poster's question is actually, "What 2 race combinations are considered superior?"

Anyone who has played a game with 400 SB's after 100 turns knows how valuable SSD's are. And, if there are fewer SB's, the Empire knows exactly where the vulnerable planets are. The Empire also knows where the fuel dumps are.

The Empire + cloaker/Crystal combo is devastating.

1962 days, 18 hours, 19 minutes ago

commander koski

RE: Which race if played right do you consider superior, just...

@MJS68508 I disagree a bit. I think the IDEAL environment at planets.nu is max ally = 0, because that is the situation in senior officer games and championships and I believe the site works in a manner that that is the direction everyone aims to. You get more achievement points if you win alone! That is the ideal.

But even that doesn't mean there wouldn't be allies and teams. Actually, quite the contrary! Every championship game has had very tight bonds of cooperation. Also my first senior officer game that is going on turn 75 quickly developed into a situation of three "teams", fascist + crystalline, evil empire + rebel and federation + borg(+bird). This all happened very naturally: as some started to cooperate, the rest were quick to find friends of their own. Those who didn't, perished.

Diplomacy is a core element of Planets and that is the terrain where Evil Empire (and also Fascists) thrive. Actually I'd say those races are stronger in senior officer games than in beginner and melee games, because there are too many players there who don't communicate at all! No diplomacy = the EE and Fascists suffer.

A hint for new players, how to find a friend: try to locate a player with a troublesome starting location. Like in this game I had a crystalline neighbor who had borg as his other neighbor. It was easy to get a friend!