You Make the Call

« Back to Strategy

2818 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
You Make the CallWrite Reply
My annoying computer erased this post just as I was finisheing it the first time, so you folks get the short, unedited version this time.

You are the Colonies.  Your ally is the Birds.  You got off to a slow start, with the only planet less than 81 light years from your homeworld being a crappy 99 degree amorphous (#401) with almost no minerals.  You can not even keep a colony there in a stable population situation.  You two are doing well though, and your closest unfriendly neighbor, the Feds, are on the defensive with the front 400 lightyears away.  You even have good minefield cover over your core planets. The ship limit came ten turns ago.  You have about 40 planets and six starbases.  Your last turn, you got your first build since the ship limit, a Virgo near the front, on planet #295.  You have accumulated over 1000 of each mineral and about 20000 cash on your homeworld.  Which of these is the best option for those resources?

A. Build up 380 mark 7s and take them out to the front on your Tranquility to dominate the minefields against the Feds.
B. Build 380 mark 7s and lay them around your homeworld just in case the Feds snuck a ship in.
C. Turbo build fighters on your starbase to help the Virgo at your homeworld to get it to combat as soon as possible.
D. Tow your Merlin with lots of cash, minerals, and clans to force-colonize that amorphous and put a starbase there.
E. Keep the resources stockpiling at your homeworld.  You may need them and there is no better spot to store them.
F. Stop submitting turns with no explanation given to your ally.  It's what all the cool kids are doing.
2818 days, 8 hours, 25 minutes ago
View veldan's profile
veldan
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Colonies are always better on the offensive.  So option A or C will be the best.
2817 days, 19 hours, 43 minutes ago
View mycroft's profile
mycroft
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
As the colonies I would vote option C.

Unless your fearful of the feds having cloakers. Or if Nebula's are an issue, I wouldn't fear your center. Since the next best cloaked ship he could get his hands on is either a deth specula or a MCBR. Neither of which would field a major combat risk to your planets since you will run him out of fuel eventually if you manage your resources well.

The only thing you would fear is if he happens to have a lot of thor's/missouri's/nova's. in this case you will need to heft a 50/50 with fighters and mines. So you can lay them as you sweep them. This will keep your carriers safe from these ships with many torp bays. If you only have a one carrier in the area. I would sacrifice any 3 ships to eliminate my biggest tactical threat.

Since your allied with the birdmen, you might consider asking for swift heart support and if you can communicate well with him and provide him exact coordinates to fly too, you can keep his scouts fueled from your carrier while passing you planet strength and fleet locations prior to arrival.

He should be your eyes, you should be his fist.

However, me personally I wouldn't have listed ship locations like that to the public, since your opponent could come read this. and gather 2 SB locations, a carrier location, economy, and HW location.
2817 days, 15 hours, 54 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
The scenario is fiction.  I will reveal my own take on this (I think it is a bit arrogant to claim that there is a single correct answer - although I tried to make it that way) after a few more days for people to chime in.
2817 days, 14 hours, 39 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Clear out Fed minefields with your sweeping ability, isolate him with minefields of your own, let Birdman get in there with cloakers and wreck havoc.  Once Fed forces focus on dealing with Bird threat, move in with Virgos and force him to split up his forces.
2817 days, 13 hours, 43 minutes ago
View mugulor's profile
mugulor
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
You have decent mine cover on your core which should include your home world and your enemy is on the defensive and 400ly away.
I would build the torps and haul them to the front.

However, you said you built a Virgo recently close to the front, but then your possible option is to max out fighters at your home world to get the homeworld Virgo into battle sooner. Is this two different Virgos?
If the Virgo in question is close to the front, put a minimum battle load of torps on the tranquility and load minerals for making fighters on it to haul to your forward star base. Also if you don't already have max factories at your forward base load money on the tranquility too.
If you are worried about a cloaking ship that the Feds have, drop a few more minefields on the way out, and use remaining fighter minerals to build fighters to defend your home world.

If you have no reason to suspect he has cloakers, he shouldn't be able to get anywhere near your home world without you seeing it coming. Also, no one has a base killing cloaking ship other than your ally, so unless he has several well armed light cloakers your star base should be safe for the near future.
2817 days, 13 hours, 23 minutes ago
Profile Image
joesnoffy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
The correct answer is not among your options.

Locate the next 3-4 planet of yours in front of the building queue and build starbases on all of them in the same order as the building queue moves and build more Virgos. The first one with low tech engines and beam and when you have queued 3-4 low tech Virgos you may add better beams and engines.

Best wishes,

JoeSnoffy
2817 days, 13 hours, 15 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
The question is what to do with the resources on your HW.
2817 days, 13 hours, 2 minutes ago
Profile Image
joesnoffy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Yes, I know.

The reply is that you move the resources as described, as they are otherwise wasted.

Best wishes,

JoeSnoffy
2817 days, 9 hours, 58 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
my approach would be:

cash, a few self defense torps and colonists on the tranquility, because you can't control
minefield sizes above 100 torps and also not protect them with col minesweep -
unless you want an offensive surprise field...
... tow the merlin with cash and the needed base minerals (plus ship!)  to a planet ahead of
the build queue, put a gemini for more fighters and sweeping there in the dock, and build
torps via mkt on the front in order to strip front planets from minerals and use the leftovers
in the warzone as mines.. permanently have it set to mkt... the merlin should then go to a
bovinoid planet. and build a defense base there.

the home virgo then should have sufficient supplies without the merlin to build some full sets
of fighters that can be bunkered on the base. same for the front virgo - this guy especially
needs a gemini friend (actually two, or another virgo) to have sufficient fighters and be able
to perform minesweep. and a tranquility for mine cover.

good luck.
2817 days, 8 hours, 13 minutes ago
Profile Image
hors
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
As the Colonies your Race Advantage is Minesweeping. That should be your primary mode against the Feds. Run them out of resources if they insist on laying minefields. Virgo's with fighters the whole way. Use a Gemini or two to assist in your fighter production. Then it's Cobol and Virgo and bye-bye Fed minefields. And having the birdmen as your ally, you simply keep the area clear of minefields and he can fly around with relative safety.

Pick-and-choose your planetary strikes.
2817 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes ago
View donaldworrell's profile
donaldworrell
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Your at the 500 ship limit and only have 40 planets ?

you need at least two virgo/cobol combo's at the front with the feds attacking.

You will draw all the feds ships in to protect there home space. 

It sounds to me like you are playing the colonials as defense first and attack as a last result.  That is the exact oppisite of how you play the colonials.  

Have the birds send a resolute in to find the fed homeworld.  Then head staight for it an attack.   
2816 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Good lord.  Have you folks never taken a multiple choice test?  The scenario is fiction.  It is a puzzle.  Choose a, b, c, d, e, or f.

Though I do appreciate the advice.
2816 days, 19 hours, 0 minutes ago
Profile Image
eraulli
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
I would pick option D since planet #401 will be coming up in the queue shortly. In the time it takes the queue to get there you can build fighters on the Virgo at your homeworld. Build another Virgo at #401 and you have a nice battle group to help clean up the Feds or to start fighting someone else. 

If the Feds are already on the defensive and you just built another Virgo on the front you really don't need to rush mines there, and building fighters at the star base just seems like a big waste of resources that isn't needed. Home cluster seems safe so I wouldn't drop more mines there, and resources that aren't used aren't worth much.
2816 days, 16 hours, 25 minutes ago
View mugulor's profile
mugulor
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Fine, but your options aren't winners.
There is no such thing as an unwinnable scenario.
I hereby invoke the Kobayashi Maru.

Load your Tranquility with max torpedoes and HYP them to the front to lay web mines.
Chunnel your Virgo deep into enemy territory and rob him blind with cloaking Cobols.
Oh, and then choose option F.


2815 days, 23 hours, 14 minutes ago
View spacesquad's profile
spacesquad
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
AB,
Lay the mines around your HW and scoop them the same turn 140ly closer to the front line.
2815 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes ago
View nitemare's profile
nitemare
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
I would add another option to your choices...

g) While humming the ride of the Valkyries


2815 days, 15 hours, 42 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Thanks for playing, folks.  It may seem like there is more than one possible answer here, but there is not.  Your territory is not under immediate threat so your resources go into improving your production capacity, not military.  The answer is D. 

A. Build up 380 mark 7s and take them out to the front on your Tranquility to dominate the minefields against the Feds.

You are the Colonies, and you are on offense.  And you are succeeding.  You do not need this.
***********************************************
B. Build 380 mark 7s and lay them around your homeworld just in case the Feds snuck a ship in. 

This is just silly.  Feds are reeling and they do not make cloakers.  And their closest fuel source is very far away.  And you already have good mine cover.
***********************************************
C. Turbo build fighters on your starbase to help the Virgo at your homeworld to get it to combat as soon as possible.

Terrible.  You are not in any hurry.  Why would you blow your cash on something you get at a 95% discount if you wait?
***********************************************
D. Tow your Merlin with lots of cash, minerals, and clans to force-colonize that amorphous and put a starbase there.

This planet is bad, yes.  But not uninhabitable if you bring a few clans each turn.  With the amount of resources at your disposal, only the planet's number is important for the usefulness of a starbase on it. The planet is just over 100 past the queue and it will take you two turns to build a starbase and then queue up a Virgo there.  Three if the planet is not currently occupied.
***********************************************
E. Keep the resources stockpiling at your homeworld.  You may need them and there is no better spot to store them.

This is actually the worst option, but I would bet the most common for new and new-ish players.  Resources are useless until the moment they are spent.
***********************************************
F. Stop submitting turns with no explanation given to your ally.  It's what all the cool kids are doing.

You actually considered this?  You bastard!

Hope you enjoyed the puzzle.  Next puzzle coming soon.
2814 days, 19 hours, 56 minutes ago
View mugulor's profile
mugulor
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
D?
Only if you own no other planets in between about planet #320 and #401.
If you have something in that range that is closer to the front I would take a few extra turns and take the Minerals there to build.
2804 days, 8 hours, 20 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Scenario 2:

You are the Empire.  You have an Avian Unity with 8,000,000 natives making you plenty of cash with a SB on it 200 LY from your homeworld which has been producing Super Star Destroyers and is about to make your first Gorbie this turn. You had been doing rather well until just this turn when a Privateer Meteor Class Blockade Runner fought and captured your LDSF returning to your homeworld with:

350 NEU
200 DUR
400 TRI
600 MOL
10000 Megacredits
Friendly Code: ASS

It took less than 10% damage, having been hit only by beams.  For reference, the MBR is still cloaked and has:

4 X-Ray Lasers
4 Mark VIII torpedo launchers (zero torpedoes onboard)

Luckily, you traded for a Loki and it is on its way to your homeworld.  It has:

95 NEU
Transwarp Drive
2 X-Ray Lasers
4 Gamma Bombs (20 torpedoes onboard)

...but it is still 110 light years away out in the middle of space.   There are no planets less than 81 light years to it either.  The Lizard player told you that he had captured an MBR with this very same Loki earlier this game when you were negotiating the trade.

You have a newly built Super Star Frigate orbiting your homeworld right now.  The SSF has:

Transwarp Drive
5 X-Ray Lasers
3 Mark IV torpedo launchers (zero torpedoes onboard)

You also have your starting Medium Deep Space Freighter accompanying that Loki with 200 fuel onboard.  There is currently no mine field within 162 light years of your homeworld.  You have no other ships within 162 light years.  On your homeworld, you have:

420 NEU
300 DUR
180 TRI
450 MOL
14 megacredits
310 supplies

SB tech is:
6
10
5
5

Your planetary structures are appropriate.  You have zero SB DPs, and 50 fighters.  It is turn 19.  You have no true allies.  Until this turn, the only other teams you have seen close by are the Lizards (NAP) and the Cyborg (you wiped them out of the area with Super Star Destroyers).  The Privateer player is ranked in the top 10 of officers.  He has 4 completed games as the Privateers, placing 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 6th.

You may be in a tough spot. You think you have a plan, but there are so many variables to consider.  The question is...what Friendly Code do you use for your homeworld this turn?!

a. mkt
b. nuk
c. 999
d. dmp
e. gs8
f. ASS
g. lfm
h. gs5

This one is a good bit easier than the first because of the way I am presenting it.  Simply giving a letter for an answer is fine, but feel free to go into detail if you need to.  Just make sure to be clear on your choice from the menu.
2804 days, 7 hours, 33 minutes ago
View donaldworrell's profile
donaldworrell
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
non of the above

you put almost all the fuel from the ssd on the planet and set the ship to beam up fuel while you wait for the loki to arive.  In the mean time build ssc to but fighters on to attack mbr your new loki might decloak when it arrives.
2803 days, 10 hours, 30 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
The question is which friendly code to use for the planet.  You have to have a friendly code of some sort.  You say that you do not like the options, but then you describe your solution that has nothing to do with friendly codes.  You can select one of the choices and still do your plan if you like.  Or if you are convinced that all the choices are wrong (hint: they aren't), please tell us why.
2803 days, 9 hours, 54 minutes ago
Profile Image
joesnoffy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
I would set FC to mkt

Best wishes,

JoeSnoffy
2803 days, 1 hours, 11 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
I would use mkt as well.
2802 days, 19 hours, 52 minutes ago
Profile Image
hors
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

Why would you be concerned about the friendly code on your starbase? An MCBR isn't going to be able to take out your starbase (with 50 fighters - not a chance) - assuming it is coming to your starbase and assuming it is within one-turn striking distance (nothing in your question implies anythiong of the sort). The question supposes an action by the Privateers which may or may not happen and a defensive strategy against those privateers. So your question assumes the fear is that they will park a MCBR on your starbase and they are within striking distance. Build torps with your starbase, load them on the SSC, lay a minefield and move your SSF towards your Loki if you are so concerned about losing your SSC and then return it. Who cares what the friendly code is? Guess, if you want, to take a chance at capturing the MCBR.

Too many suppositions in your questions. Same as your first example where you felt that putting a Merlin on the amorphous world was a good way to build your economy. Since it is the Merlin we are talking about, on an amorphous world that you will be limited in your ability to grow colonists and build factories, a Merlin would take the equivalent of 3024 supplies just to satisfy the mineral component of the ship. Add in another 840 supplies for the cash equivalent and you're looking at nearly 3887 supplies to build a Merlin. No way that makes economic sense. How many turns would it take to reclaim 3887 supplies on a 99-degree Amorphous world?

It's the same thing with your starbase. You claim to be making a ton of cash, so why concern yourself with the MCBR for the one or two turns it may be on your starbase? If you are making a ton of cash you can easily build starbase defenses. Leave it alone and deal with it when the Loki arrives. Don't hover your starship on the world if that is your fear. Guess at a friendly code but that's not really a defensive strategy, that's simply a way of catching the Privateers off-guard. A defensive strategy is to get your ship off planet and return when the Loki is there. A minefield gives you a semblance of a lucky chance the MCBR will hit it.

2802 days, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Hors, the MBR is orbiting the homeworld, as is stated by the scenario setup.  Perhaps you now have sufficient info to make a decision.  There is enough specific intel in my description for you to make an informed choice - if you know how to decipher it!!
I appreciate your words.  But now, sir...an answer.  What is your choice?


Btw,
In the previous scenario, the Merlin was acting as a cargo vessel for that turn - nothing more.  What the player does with it after that is beyond the scope of the question.  It is an alchemy vessel, yes.  It also has the largest cargo capacity of any ship in the game, and that makes a stupendous freighter if you can afford the fuel to move it.  The Colonies can.
2801 days, 7 hours, 39 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Alright folks.  It looks like only two people were brave enough to commit to an answer.

Here is an explanation:

You have a Loki about to get to your homeworld.  You have your frigate on the scene.  He knows the armament of the Loki, and he can pretty closely guess the armament of the Super Star Frigate by its fuelless, cargoless mass. Both of these ships are capable of defeating the MBR if it does not have any torpedoes, but it will likely defeat them both if it does - and the Privateers know this.   He has as strong an incentive as you could possibly ask for to want to destroy that Loki.  If he does, he probably owns you for the game.  If he does not, you will be able to clone it many times before the ship limit and own him.

Now, there are variables still.  You could lay a mine field if he does not rob you, but not much of one.  You can't even build 25 mark IV torpedoes with the cash you have, and he can almost guess that by the crappy ship you just built combined with the cash he just stole from you.

He could wait a turn before attacking the Loki, but that just increases your options and is generally a foolish choice.

The stage is set.

He HAS to intercept your Loki this turn.  So he HAS to build torpedoes to destroy it for sure.  If you set your starbase friendly code to "mkt" and set its primary orders to "Force a Surrender", you stand a very good chance of guessing his friendly code and forcing his MBR to surrender.  None of the other friendly codes has anywhere near the implications that this one does.

One more thing:  A particularly good player might guess your move and find another way, but you know this Privateer player to not be that good by his placements in his past games.

Congratulations to Joesnoffy and smn for reading the signs and getting it right.  Another puzzle coming soon.
2801 days, 6 hours, 56 minutes ago
Profile Image
hors
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Sorry Daniel Payne, but go re-read your question. All you said was that the LDSF was captured returning to your homeworld. You did not indicate that it was at the homeworld, simply that it was returning to your homeworld.

So, by the ambiguity of the question, the MCBR can just as easily be in open space.

Also, your answer supposes the Privateers intention - nothing that can be established as case-in-point. So my remark still stands and whatever friendly code you put on your homeworld is simply a guess to catch a Privateer player off guard but is not a defensive strategy. What you told us about the Privateer player was that he has played in a few games and finishing 3rd, 4th, or 6th is not an indication of good or bad - it is an indication of where one finished in a game. Seems to me that being in the top 10 of officers stands to reason that he is, actually, pretty good and not pretty bad - as you would attest. So, in your answer you indicate that he may get sloppy based on a behaviour that may or may not happen. There is nothing to say the Privateer has to do anything you say he has to do. Your answer does not jive with the question you put forward.

In fact, in your scenario, the Privateer knows the armament of the Loki and can easily defeat it. So he is under absolutely zero pressure to eliminate that Loki since he can destroy it and any other Loki cloned at any time in the future. A Loki can defend one planet - at best. It's a big universe and one planet does not a Universe make.

So, an ambiguous question (as I've explained), a paradoxical play by the Privateers (as I've outlined), and a supposition without basis (as I've pointed out) and I say my answer still stands.

Same thing with your Merlin scenario. You said nothing about using it once. As written, it will simply stay at the planet. And to force-colonize a 99-degree Amorphous planet? Really? That's a wise use of resources and economic growth? Perhaps you can defend that answer.
2800 days, 15 hours, 40 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Hors, you are still complaining that the MBR's location orbiting the homeworld is unclear.  In fact, all of your complaints stem from that position even though I actually clarified it for you already.  Are you seriously so concerned that the original phrase was not to your liking that you need all this?  Is it really so important to you?  You did not even participate.  Add in your continued nitpicking about the previous question, and your behavior looks a lot like trolling.  I am not going to participate in an argument about semantics or about your difficulties that go beyond the scope of the puzzles just because you feel like arguing something.

For the next puzzle, feel free to participate and try to focus just on the specific question and the context that applies to it.  I am trying my best to make these puzzles interesting, rewarding, and accurate for players.  They force participants into a thinking mode that duplicates game situations, and hopefully teaching new players some of the lessons they need to learn to improve.  In VGA Planets, there is often no absolute because we deal with information gathering, but there is usually a clear best course of action or most likely solution.

2800 days, 12 hours, 42 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Hors, the main clue telling that the mcbr was at the hw was that it was still cloaked. meaning that it didn't intercept or tow. Obviously there are some circumstances, like calculating waypoint for cloaked intercept or capturing it at another planet, but when it wss clearly stated that the freighter was returning to the hw, those options become too unlikely to be seriously considered.
Also, from the scenario setup it was clear that the mcbr will very likely try to build torps and intercept the Loki. So it is a pretty much mandatory move for the player to try forcing a surrender. Maybe it works, maybe not, but it would be stupid to not try.

Finally, of course there is massive pressure to kill the Loki immediately. Should the Empire get a few clones, they become very expensive to wipe out. you cant cloaked-intercept lokis that orbit planets. you cant even safely intercept them in open space as the empire player might suddenly just remove fuel for a turn and capture your interceptor with the towing ship. etc.
2800 days, 8 hours, 30 minutes ago
Profile Image
hors
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Wow, insecure much?

I don't know what you do in real life. I know what I do in real life and how important the written word and the meanings they convey have to be. Those were identified - use it as a learning process for the future... or not.

Not an argument - simply a reply to the use of a noun as an ironic form of respect.

And in regards to the MCBR. What is more important? To head to the world the freighter was heading to? Or to head to the world the freighter was heading from? Again, just helping you out when constructing scenarios and presenting arguments to be impartial and not presumptuous. Use it as you will - it is "your" will.
2799 days, 17 hours, 43 minutes ago
View big beefer's profile
big beefer
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
I would agree mkt is your best guess, but a couple reasons it may not get you the desired results, more just as things to think about:

- FCs in .nu are not case sensitive to work (different from original VGAP), but I believe are case sensitive to matching between other ships or planets (anyone can confirm this?). So the MBR could use a variation such as mKT to avoid surrendering.

- I don't believe you can tell from the VCR if the ship actually had no torpedoes or was using FC ntp to not use them, which is common when attacking freighters. So it could already have torpedoes on board and not need more.

But I would still agree mkt has the best chance of working. The real puzzle for me here was how that MBR attacked the freighter at the home world and didn't fight the base. I suppose it must have matched the base's FC. So perhaps just leaving it set to whatever it already was is another somewhat reasonable alternative.
2799 days, 16 hours, 28 minutes ago
View mycroft's profile
mycroft
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Well any cloaked ship can remain cloaked and have a PE set. And could set "ntp" or just be out of torps. As long as the cloaked ship didn't sustain any hull damage it would remain cloaked and not attack the planet. However if the planet was set to "ATT" or "nuk" it would combat the captured ship(s) and possibly destroy them so if you can't have it, he can either.
2798 days, 6 hours, 13 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

Scenario 3: The Cylon Solution

You are the Federation.  It is turn 86, and you are locked in a 3 v 3 battle to the death.  Your allies are the Rebels and the Fascists, but neither of them are on hand to help you with what you face now.  You are facing off against the Empire, Robots, and Crystals.  All the other races are dead.  Things have been quiet for the last few turns, but now there is a fleet of Robotic Automas and Instrumentalities en route to your homeworld.  You have run the simulations, and the Robots have almost twice the firepower necessary to finish your fleet of Missouris and Novas off even if you get the good side in every VCR.  Here are the important details:

The enemy fleet is 75 light years from your homeworld.  It consists of four Automas and eighteen Instrumentalities, all moving at warp nine.  They all have a mass high enough to indicate that they are fully armed with enough fuel to make the final leg to your homeworld.  In addition to the base ships, the Robots also brought three Cat's Paws.  They are currently only six light years off your homeworld.  Your Fascist ally informs you that every Robot carrier he has fought for the past 40 turns has been armed with tech 10 beams, but those Cat's Paws just intercepted and destroyed three Bohemians.  They each have X-Ray Lasers (and over 100 Mark VIII torpedoes remaining).

For your part, you have the Novas and Missouris all with Heavy Phasers, Mark VIII launchers and about 50 torpedoes each. (I am being vague here on purpose - just trust that you have more than ten of these ships, but your total fleet is nowhere near a match for the enemy, and that the torpedoes are well more than the ships can fire before they explode against fully armed base ships.)  They must be brought in from a planet nearby.  The planet is only 15 LY away from the current location of the Robotic carrier fleet, in fact. You also have three Nebulae at port orbiting your homeworld, also armed with Heavy Phasers and Mark VIII launchers.  You have plenty of cash and minerals at home - enough to fill the cargo of each Nebula with anything you want, even torpedoes if you choose.  Your starbase is fully defended.  You have no other ships of note.  The two planets within 81 LY of your homeworld are worthless rocks, one of them being the one your fleet must travel from.  You can be fairly certain that the Robots know where to attack since The Empire Dark Sensed you in the beginning of the game.  There is no mine field around your homeworld, and there are no cloaked ships around that you are aware of.

You had been thinking about your predicament all day when finally the solution came to you.  This one takes more than a trick to solve.  More than the others, it requires some knowledge of game mechanics. No multiple choice this time.  How can you win this battle?

2798 days, 1 hours, 33 minutes ago
View donaldworrell's profile
donaldworrell
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
the federation ships should fire upon, the corbomite in the starship's hull which will self-destruct and destroy all ships.
2798 days, 0 hours, 35 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply


at first sight i'd say you can destroy them all, but only after your hw has fallen.
if you are in turn 86 then you should have two or three hw-like planets anyway
and if the bot carriers have come so deep into your territory, you have lost even
better planets before.

and you are saying it is possible? although you can't be 100% sure to get a
mine cover, and just have enough firepower to destroy only one instrumentality class?
2797 days, 23 hours, 44 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply


okay, i see the following problem:
the only way to slow those ships down is by laying onion minefields.
but since the cat's paws will lay their mines too, and half the bot
fleet will be set to mine sweep to avoid counter-mining, you won't be able to
maintain those fields due to mines destroy mines. remember that you have to
have 400 torps in mines as a counter field - after the minesweep.

at the end of the day half the fleet will be set to tow and half to minesweep
with p.e. fed, with an instru fighting first and an automa coming second.
so in this case you loose one or all nebulae, even if some of the towers hit a mine.

the only way o destroy such firepower is to get help from the fascist and tow out the instrus
one by one - but your hw will fall.

2797 days, 23 hours, 36 minutes ago
Profile Image
joesnoffy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

The solution is  triple minefields consisting of 4761 mines with centers at the homeworld. The fleet clears all Cylon mines at moves to defend the homeplanet in case the Cylon players gets lucky and 2-3 ships manage to arrive at the homeworld. The following turns you kill the leftover ships, damaged from minehit, and build some kittyhawks and this prevents the other players from building any new ships.

Best wishes,

JoeSnoffy

2797 days, 23 hours, 27 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
I haven't done all the maths, but as the distance from Federation HW to Cylon sweepers is 'significantly' greater than the distance from Cylon minelayers to Fed sweepers, and mines destroy mines after sweeping, I think the solution is to lay mines with the Nebulas and set all the fed fleet to sweep mines.

Now what's left of Fed and Cylon minefields after minelaying and sweeping is in favour of the Fed minefields, so after mines-destroy-mines, there should still be some Fed mines left for the Robots to  smack into. Not that much but with that many ships, the Robots are bound to get quite a few minehits and that just might save the Fed day.
2797 days, 22 hours, 2 minutes ago
View nitemare's profile
nitemare
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
The bot fleet has a minesweep power of 352 type VIII tops. Since you say that the bot has almost twice the firepower needed to destroy your fleet you should has at least the same amount of ships. 22 ships with 50 torps each. Usually you would fire a maxim of 3 times before any fight end so I would move 20 torps from each ship to 3 ships with a higher id than your nebula and set them to minelay in each of your alliance player ids. They would set 3 minefield with a total amount of 500 torps, 148 torps more than the minesweep power of the bot leaving 3 overlapping minefields of 70ly. I'll set all the other ships to minesweep and move to my hw. In the other hand I would set the 3 nebulae with 49 torps each to minelay, one in your id and one in each of your allies id that would left your minefields out of the bot minesweep range, build as many torps as I can and set my starbase to load torps and then pray to the fed's god hopping that the bot fleet will struck a lot of mines travelling inside the 6 overlapping minefields.

Regards,

Nite

P.s:The minefields from the nebula will not overlap with your main fleet position either in order to obtain that 6 minefields.

2797 days, 15 hours, 34 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

20 carriers are too many - if the bot decides to set half the fleet to sweep ,
half of it to tow and lays the 100 robot torps, you will have to lay more than
800 torps and still have the chance that some of the carriers will be towed in
successfully and attack your hw.

if i were the bot, i would tow in at least one automa with another and the rest
in random combinations, letting undamaged instru and then automa fight first.
how much damage does an automa take per mine hit? 3%? 5%?
that's 20 minehits a tower can take before blowing up.. and it does not slow down
after hitting a mine. too much for a homeworld and those tiny triple fields,
if you ask me.


2797 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Automa takes 18%, Thin.

Good discussion so far.
2797 days, 15 hours, 11 minutes ago
View nitemare's profile
nitemare
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
If you are able to set 6 overlapping minefields they have around 445% chances to hit a mine travelling that 75 ly A pretty nice chance to blow the instrumentalities and leave the automas half damaged.
2797 days, 15 hours, 7 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

true - then it's in the ideal case a chance of about 200% of hitting a mine ~ 2 minehits
and it can take 5 ... while towing one instrumentality class undamaged to the base.
anyway he either might make the mistake and not tow his ships, not tow with his automas
and go directly...

but if you say that you need to lay 800-1000 torps to delay his move for one turn,
he might also want to travel half the distance first and strike then, because you probably
won't be able to maintain these fields..

--------------------------------
edit: nitemare was faster..

i thought there are only three nebula classes? how do you lay 6 fields with them?
2796 days, 16 hours, 42 minutes ago
Profile Image
eraulli
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Here are my thoughts, including some of the ideas presented already:

Since there are 3 Cat's Paws with at least 100 mk8 torpedos each, they will each lay a max minefield next turn, 1 in the ID of each ally. Your Nebulas must do the same, so that both minefields are almost completely destroyed. Since the Cat's Paws are 6 ly from your HW you will be left with 3 minefields that extend just 3 lys from your HW. Roughly 9% chance of a mine hit for each ship passing through.

The Nebulas are not useful in fighting carriers, so I would send them to the spot of the Cat's Paws to destroy them if they don't move.

I would also lay mines with the 3 highest ID ships in my battlegroup, just enough so that the Bots could not sweep with their carriers, so a 10 ly radius. Depending on where the planet is in relation to the path of the Robots to your HW, they would have to travel about 15-20 ly through 3 overlapping web fields. Since Instrumentalities are not above tech 7, a single mine hit will keep them from reaching your HW. The 4 Automas, on the other hand, are tech 9 and will reach your HW. I would send just enough ships to my HW to destroy the Automas (factor in mine hit damage and let your star base do some of the work) then send the rest of the fleet to intercept the Instrumentalities, which will likely end up 71 ly from their point of origin and 4 ly from your HW. Maybe even send the Nebulas there too, since going after the Cat's Paws isn't that helpful.

That might just do it if everything falls right. My best guess regardless.

Edit: Another thought, if the Robots decide to tow with half and sweep with the other half, then they can only sweep 17,600 mines. If the 3 ships from your battlegroup lay 21,600 mines each then they will greatly increase the chances of a mine hit. The reason for 21,600 mines is that if all the ships are sweeping then a max size minefield will get wiped out, whereas this will leave at least a 9 ly minefield after sweeping since each ship can sweep only 1600 mines and you have to be within 5 ly of a minefield to sweep it.
2795 days, 7 hours, 59 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

Time is up.

There were several different well thought-out answers.  One person got it right. 

Ask yourself: What will the enemy likely do?  In typical Robotic fashion, he is almost certainly going to blanket you in mines and move in for the kill with overwhelming force all at the same time.  Hey, it's not elegant but it works. You do not have the firepower to defeat him in a fair fight, so how can you warp the odds? With minefields, of course.  But he has enough minelaying ability and sweeping ability to prevent you from having a minefield in place when he moves...not necessarily.

To solve this, you had to know a few different details.

First: You can not lay more than the max number of mine units on a given turn per ship.  For the robots with mark VIII, that is ~56.  For everone else with mark VIII it is 225.  If you try to, you will simply have torpedoes left in your cargo hold.  You can not create more than one mine field with any given ship on any given turn no matter how many torpedoes you have.  So both sides here have the ability to lay a max minefield with three different ships. Note that the Robots do not get the 4x mine advantage when laying mines in another team's name.  But that does not matter here.

Second: You can overlap minefields in an ally's name.  Heck, in a pinch you can lay a minefield in a mutual enemy's name - but you will just sweep it up in this scenario.  So, the fastest way to get triple coverage here would be to lay three identical mine fields - one with each Nebula.

Third: Mines destroy Mines happens AFTER minesweep.

Even if you are both able to max-out on mines, your fleets will sweep them up before any mines destroy mines.  The trick here is to lay just the right amount so that the enemy is barely out of range to sweep them.  Minesweep range is 5 ly from the edge and his sweepers are 75 ly from your minelayers.  So you lay about 4800 mine units (48 torpedoes, 69 light year radius) for yourself with one Nebula.  One for the Fascists.  One more for the Rebels.  Minesweeping occurs and you sweep all the Robotic mines while his ships are out of range to sweep yours.  Finally, mines destroy mines, but only yours remain at this point.  So you have triple coverage for 69 of his 75 light years of travel.

If you lay mines with your battleships, they will certainly be swept by the Robotic fleet, since you are so close.  So forget the six mine fields.  But, kudos to eraulli for the tiny mine field idea right next to the Robotic carriers.  That is a lovely addition, and a great plan.  Sure, you may even get a few extra hits that way.  Go for it!  Just remember that you need a total of 57 Heavy Phasers sweeping Robotic mines.

Now, he can tow half of his ships with the other, but he takes the chance of not having mine field superiority if he does not sweep with all of his ships.  His ships only have 4 beams each.  Eleven of them can sweep 17600 (of 22500 possible) mine units, leaving you with almost exactly the same number of mine units remaining (if you lay max) as if you only lay the 48.  It's a tough call for him, but not for you.  You get your 69 light year radius for sure my way.  At any rate, he has all of his ships at warp 9 on this turn, presumably mine sweeping, and he knows that it is enough to clear away your biggest field to make room for his own mine fields.  Even if he is extremely good and has thought of all this, he still has to gamble.  Do you have more torpedoes or more firepower? Strangely, if he guesses wrong (firepower), he may tow half his fleet with the other half, and you will face a few more undamaged Instrumentalities. Even still, it is very likely that much more than half his fleet will not make it. 

This is because his ships will be braving 207 light years of mines.  Each mine hit does 29% damage to an Instrumentality and 18% to an Automa.  Automas make the trip unless they hit 6 mines.  Instrumentalities stop after hitting one.  There are only four Automas to tow with. Against Fed battleships the ships that make it will get chewed up.  If all goes well, the damaged Instrumentalies get taken out next turn.

Well done, Joesnoffy.  You called it perfectly.

BTW, The Robots could actually do something unheard of to counter this - lay fewer mines.  He can actually do the same out-of-range trick you are doing to a certain degree.  But then he has to know that you do not have sweepers on your homeworld to digress from the tried-and true tactics for which the Robots are known.  Without Lizard or Romulan cloakers, he can not know that in this scenario.

I hope I covered all the details.  Another puzzle coming soon.

2758 days, 16 hours, 4 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Daniel,

I miss your puzzles! And hope you get around to make another one!
2758 days, 15 hours, 36 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

I've got one. Inside my minefield.


     1 (sb) - 2(sb)
        \     /
          3(privateer)


you play the cyborg and the lizards as a team game.
there are three planets inside your (big) minefield which are interconnected.
two of them (1 and 2) are your's and one (3) just has been captured by a
privateer golem class baseship. the other two are 200/60 star bases.

3) in orbit of planet 3, that just was attacked is the golem class (mass ~2500kt) 
+ your cloaked lizard class without torpedo tubes and with just enough fuel to
move to one other planet. you have seen the golem approach your mined area.
together with a meteor class.

2) in orbit of planet 2 is nothing but the star base.

1) in orbit of planet 1 (the most important one, colonists and mineral wise) we have
1 ldsf and 1 firecloud

- all around we assume we have nothing else on the planets, because we need to react now..
- due to the chunnel ability we have access to all lizard and cyborg ships within one turn.

what do you do?


2758 days, 3 hours, 21 minutes ago
Profile Image
star72066
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

I chunnel in Four Biocides, two of them with a lower SHIP ID then the two Fireclouds, and Four LCC's cloaked with 50 MK 8's each and I'm assuming the Biocides are under Lizard Control and I don't want to hear about the cheaper cost of MK 7's as the Lizard that is a non-issue and with MK 8's the Lizard Ships are stronger in combat. (If you can afford MK 8's build them)  I move the LDSF North out of the way, if fuel is an issue, I put it up in the gravity well, and I keep the LCC with No Torp Tubes (As if I would ever build one with No Torp Tubes) over the Privateer Planet Cloaked, as a Spy, as it has no fuel, which would be real simple if it did, because I would tow the Golem this turn to Planet Starbase A to meet the Biocides.

There are three objectives here.

The First Objective is to destroy the Golem.

The Second Objective is to not get your ships robbed.

The Third Objective is to save both Starbases in tact, which may be possible by just leaving them by themselves, as it's 50/50 that a Golem can take out a 200/60 starbase solo, and you didn't mention the number of fighters left on the Golem after it finished off the planet it sits on, which may factor into safer players minds, in just leaving the starbases to fend for themselves in fear of being robbed.

Now, by Chunneling in the Four Biocides, we easily have the Firepower necessary to achieve objective One and Three. By Chunneling in the LCC's we have the tools necessary to keep the minefield in tact and in fact improve it by overlapping, which increases our ability at Objective 2. We can also force a "Lucky" MBR to tow more than 81 lt years (Our reach with intercept with the Bio's) in order to rob anything, which makes the success rate for a successful rob about 25%. 

Which is highly unlikely to happen, considering the Golem would have to move 82 light years away from Planet Starbase A this very turn, AND the MBR would have to cloak to Planet Starbase A, this turn, successfully without striking a mine (At 40 lt years it's 19% chance to strike a mine and a 50% chance to cloak to the right planet). The odds of being robbed off the Chunnel considering all variables invloved about 12.5% and thats 25%  if the Privateer player is Psychic or had prior knowledge to which Starbase was more likely to have something to rob.

After this turn, I have all the necessary tools to achieve all three objectives, and once the Golem is gone, I chunnel everything but one Firecloud and a couple LCC's out for their next mission.

Thats how I would play it, and please consider there are other variables I'm assuming don't exsist, like other MBR's. (Where there are one - there are many)  Your likely to know more.

The Golem is obviously there for it's fuel tank and robbing, as one Golem is hardly a planet busting fleet, but a 2000KT fuel tank, robs any ship in the game.

I don't expect the Golem to move this turn, and the MBR will either lay a minefield to bust up your mines, or attempt to cloak to one of the two starbases, depending on the distance it has to travel,  at 80 lt years a MBR has a 33% chance to dust itself on a mine. For unknown target ships, it's not worth the risk.

Thats how I would play it.

-Admiral Star

2756 days, 6 hours, 43 minutes ago
Profile Image
silvanos
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
1)  Use LCC to tow Golem to Firecloud
2)  Chunnel to waiting Biocides
3)  ???
4)  Profit
2755 days, 20 hours, 13 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

star, maybe i should explain that we are in the late midgame at turn 90 with more than 150 star bases in the game, but only 20 biocides (two borg players). getting the chance to build with the queue is pretty low and connected to a very high investment in order to build only once. just to put into consideration: you need a base, 3x techlevels and the ship to get one. this is why i would priorize saving a carrier than saving a starbase... but you are right with the risk that the golem might be set to 'rob'...

silvanos, you are pretty close to the plan we took, since after the firecloud chunnel all chunneled ships have their shields down - which preferably means that the golem should chunnel. unfortunately the lizard class can't tow the golem far enough (to the current firecloud position), since it it too heavy... any solution for that?
2755 days, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago
View jobo's profile
jobo
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Tow the firecloud to meet the tow'ed golem
2755 days, 18 hours, 58 minutes ago
Profile Image
star72066
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Use your LDSF to tow the firecloud close enough for the LCC to tow the Golem to it and hope the MBR doesn't trump your tow.
2755 days, 16 hours, 55 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

yes, that's what i figured out to be the lowest risk: to try a tow + a tow-drop chunnel.
because should the golem be set to rob, the lizard class would not be captured immediately
because it was invisible the turn before.

the tow-drop worked and the firecloud jumped together with the empty freighter to a biocide
class on the other side of the map.

but somehow (and there we go to the second, easier part) the lizard class stayed on
the planet with mission tow and still had it's fuel... while the golem moved through 60ly
of mines, attacked starbase #1 and captured it with 98% damage.

what had happened, and what did i have to do immediately?


2755 days, 16 hours, 11 minutes ago
View vepr's profile
vepr
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Perhaps the golem towed the cloaked MCBR behind it. 

 If the golem's ID is lower than your LCC, then when it locked the tow beam on the Meteor it prevented you from locking onto it with the LCC.  The fact that your ship didn't get robbed means that neither the golem nor the MCBR were set to rob that turn.  Otherwise, it would have gotten robbed and you would be stuck at the planet but have no fuel left. 

Not sure why the LCC didn't move though.  It should have still moved to its way point even if its tow lock got disrupted.  
2755 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes ago
Profile Image
star72066
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

The Golem moved further than the LCC at Warp 9 so it broke the tow and left your LCC at the planet.

The MBR probably stayed put, cloaked over the planet and set to rob this turn, incase your dumb enough to leave the LCC uncloaked.

The Golem is sucking up whatever supplies Starbase A had on it, and the crew of the Golem is currently throwing a huge party at the ship bar, called The Pirates Den.

I would cloak to the Golem this turn with the LCC and hopefully you have enough fuel to tow it to Starbase B next turn, to put it down.

Anyhow, In my world the Golem ran into two Bio's and is currently destroyed.

2754 days, 7 hours, 1 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Thin Lizzy, I have no troubles with others posting puzzles (actually, it is a great idea), but let's keep them fictional or with a clear best answer or it is more of a "help me" thread.

Also, thx, smn.  I thought it was unpopular.  Anyway, here is a new scenario for you all.

Puzzle #4, Virgo Blitzkrieg!

You are the Lizards.  It is turn 55 and you are deep into the thick of a struggle against the Colonies, a player who has done relatively well against you..  He is allied with the Privateers, a very good player who is known to be a vicious Privateer that always chooses his targets wisely.  You are allied with Rebels, who are struggling against the Privateers yet doing decently considering you have been unable to get him even a single Loki.

The Colonies are your only real border, as you have a non-aggression treaty with the Robots, and you have been slowly cleaning out the Feds for many turns. Taken together, they act as a buffer between you and the Privateers.  You have just over 100 planets.  Your economy is strong, and you have a deep supply of TRexes, Madonzillas, Lizards, and Saurians constantly making their way to your border with the Colonies while mostly sending the Lokis into your expected eventual meeting territory with the Privateers.  He definitely knows you have plenty of them too.  You have a steady, renewable supply chain bringing cash, minerals, torpedoes, fuel, and especially clans to the front, and you are able to keep his mine fields in check.  You also have eight Falcons with Heavy Blasters and Transwarps.

Sounds good, but there is a problem.  The Colonies have more Virgos than you can handle, perhaps twice what your TRexes and Madonzillas can take down.  Furthermore, your border is vast and heavily laden with planets that can hide his movement. He has apparently finished arming them and fueling them, because you can see nine of them this turn.  Your cloaking scouts can also see three more still orbiting planets. They are about 1300 KTs each and on their way into your territory on multiple fronts, accompanied by seven Patriots.   You suspect that they are heavily armed.  The one you fought last turn had 240 fighters on it.

For your part, you have nine TRexes with mark VII torpedo launchers and Heavy Disruptors each.  You also have five Madonzillas with 80 fighters and Plasma Bolts each and fourteen Lizard Class Cruisers with Heavy Phasers and Mark VII torpedo launchers full of clans and fuel. Your ships are right on the border and ready to fight.  You have just a few Lokis sprinkled in. You have six LDSFs full of clans, minerals, supplies, and cash on or near those border planets, but the planets are newly captured.  They have no surface structures yet. No significant natives. You have nearly 40,000 megacredits and plenty of minerals on the front with much more of both on the way over the next few turns, but very little firepower coming for several turns.  His fleet is between 101 and 150 light years from your first four planets.  Behind each of those planets is about two more equally as barren.  Which of these options should you pursue over the next few turns?

1. Begin rerouting the Lokis to prevent the Privateers from doubling your troubles and engage the Colonies with your entire firepower along the front closest to the Lokis coming in with this new protection.
2. Use the cash, minerals, and supplies to build and arm starbases as well as you possibly can along your border planets with only about 100 clans and lots of cash and minerals on each.  Move all your ships and whatever they can carry off those planets to keep them out of combat.
3. Punch a hole in the Colonial fleet with more mines than they can handle.  You can make thousands of torpedoes.  Then intercept the most damaged with pairs of TRex/Madonzilla combos.
4. Use the Falcons to HYP into the warpwells to assist in mine sweeping in case of cloaked minelayers.
5. Build a starbase on each of the first four border planets.  Put 2500 clans each of the first four planets to increase defense posts to 100.  Max out the defenses of the starbases. Park a single TRex over each planet.  Set the TRex to mine sweep with primary enemy: Colonies and the planet to friendly code: nuk.

Only one of them is actually reasonable.  Can you pick out the one good one?

My apologies for typo's.  I have to sleep now.  Good luck!
2753 days, 18 hours, 20 minutes ago
Profile Image
star72066
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

I choose 5. Drop 4 Virgo's for 4 Rex's.

2753 days, 16 hours, 51 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
All 5 strategies given will result in defeat.

6. Realize I have screwed up and allied with a big carrier race and have no big carriers guarding my territory. I send the Rebel an ultimatum: Send some Rushes to my area in exchange for me sending cloakers to your area + hissing your planets, or the alliance is off.

A. If he agrees, I slowly withdraw until the Rushes arrive. I place cloakers (with clans) over valuable planets to make sure the colonies cannot develop them. 

B. If he doesn't agree, I realize I have already lost this game.  A well developed colonies will defeat a well developed lizard - defeat is inevitable without the big carriers. So, I switch to a guerrilla economy and plan on harassing the colonies/privateers the rest of the game.
2753 days, 16 hours, 48 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
This is not an unsolvable puzzle.  One of them is the correct answer.
2753 days, 16 hours, 10 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
1. (No) Colonial battle fleet is superior to lizard battle fleet.

2. (No) Only build SB's that you can fully arm. About 1/3 will take out a Virgo.

3. (No) 4 Geminis destroy all minefields that are within 100 light years. 

4. (No) Fun, as a sideshow. But, not the main event.

5. (No) You only need to use about 300 clans for ground defense. You only need 50-60 defense posts for ground defense multiplier and minimizing fighter attacks. 50 defense posts and a fully armed SB will give you a mass of 350. You only need a mass of 320. Don't waste a T-Rex. A Meteor will just tow it away before combat. 
2753 days, 16 hours, 6 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Plan 5.

From scenario description, it sounds unlikely that there would be Privateer meteors in the area. So it sounds like a somewhat sure way to kill a Virgo per T-Rex.
2753 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Assuming an opponent will play poorly is a good way to get killed. Ally = Privateers? Assume Meteors.
2753 days, 15 hours, 55 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
MJs, I sent you a private message about this topic.  I don't want to spoil the puzzle for everyone.
2753 days, 15 hours, 8 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
what you have there as a fleet will defeat the colonial, for sure. if you are on the defense:

1. defensive starbases + cloaked lcc guards to lower the virgo's shields.
    alternative: cheapo t-rex + loki nearby in the warp well to decloak meteors.
2. cloak intercept on cobols - even kamikaze missions, the virgo classes must not have legs.
3. counterattack immediately and take out key planets and bottlenecks. destroy his eco, and forget   
     the virgo classes. your t-rex and lcc are stronger than any colonial ship except the virgo.
4. destroy all supporters (priorities: merlin, gemini, sagittarius, ldsf) to force the virgos to build
    fighters themselves. avoids mine sweep mission. only then kill the lonely virgo classes one by one.
5. then fight the virgos with mk8 plasma bolt t-rex with 25 torps + madonnzila by tow-killing them one
    by one. 80 fighters are definetely not enough. 100-120 !!
6. Meanwhile get the rushes there, even in rebel hands they are much stronger than virgos.
    where are they?

edit:
those hvy disrup t-rex's are nearly too expensive to fight with - they are excellent sweepers though

2753 days, 13 hours, 50 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
First, making problems are hard and Daniel should be commended for his work. They are a service to the community.

For good players, they give possibilities to consider and maybe even refine their tactics, even if they disagree with the answers.

For average players, they help them understand the immense intricacies that is VGAP. It is an amazing paper/rock/scissors game that frequently requires you to take from Peter to pay Paul.

For newbies, it helps them to see that much effort will be required to become proficient and that they should either make a commitment or choose another pastime.

2753 days, 13 hours, 48 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Second, I think it is great that thin lizzy is posting problems from our team game. It is nice to know his team is having as much difficulty as my team (grin).
2753 days, 13 hours, 21 minutes ago
View mjs68508's profile
mjs68508
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Third, while I think that thin lizzy is probably the best lizard player at vgap.nu, I have to disagree with his points.

1. It was mentioned that there were at least 4 good players. This means that the ship limit has been reached. They should all be trying to control the ship queue, so you can expect the ship queue to advance an average of 5 planets per turn. Most of those SB's won't be building for 20-100 turns. Like MacArthur's Island Hopping campaign, they can be bypassed. Ships left to guard those cannot be in the home area to defend. When attacking a lizard, I would plan on first eliminating his base of power, then consolidating. With his cloaking and ground attack ability he can retake any planet, unless it is heavily fortified. The worst thing you can do against the lizard/fascist is use the broadsword. You need the rapier - right to the heart.

2. Cloak intercept is powerful. But, a good Colonial will have at least double minefields around his weak ships, especially Geminis, by using his Ally's Mine ID. With overlapping minefields, they will probably be under quadruple minefields. Also, he should have more of these ships than he needs. He should be using regular builds for Virgos and PBP's to replace Geminis, Cobols, etc.

3. Agree. The first thing the Lizard does in a game is spread his seed all over so he is difficult to stamp out. The Lizard is a pain-dealing, attacking race (except for his nemesis, the Crystal (paper/rock/scissor, remember?)).

4. Same as 2.

5. No. Wait for #6.

If well integrated, a lizard/rebel alliance should beat a colonial/privateer alliance.
2753 days, 12 hours, 49 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

1 was meant for the border planets - a lizard class with even mk4 ;) will scratch the shields of any  
   carrier which will then be destroyed by the base. also building a starbase allows you to burn minerals
   on border planets and keep them empty. i proposed a lizard class because it can cloak and won't 
   have any problems with meteor classes. but of course a t-rex will do the job better, if a loki protects
   it by standing nearby (10ly) - the colonial might send a patriot / virgo combo which destroys the lcc
   without the effect of a virgo with discharged beams...

2 There i wanted to illustrate that you fight a colonial battle group and that the carriers are not
   the #1 target. the most dangerous ship in such a fleet is the cobol class, because it allows
   exactly what you mentioned - to go directly where it hurts. a virgo class by itself will burn
   bazillion tons of gasoline and will have problems with movement soon. also it is necessary
   to take out the minelayers, which often are the cobol classes. for this you might even want
   to sacrifice a lizard class by using the cloak intercept mechanism. in case you can't tow them
   out, of course. on the counter attack you should of course just tow and destroy them.
   by mentioning the colonial minecover, we now know why daniel put in very good beams
   into the t-rex.

4 that's exactly what you want as a lizard: destroy the enemy economy
   fighting the colonial is more like wrestling than boxing - if you force the colonial to replace the
   gemini you destroy, he won't build a virgo class. if you destroy the gemini, you also destroy the
   strongest sweepers + you force the virgo to mission 'build fighters' -> two sweepers, and one
   interceptor less... space for your t-rex's to sweep.

5 but you have the problem now - and somehow the rebel did not give away or send any rushes yet
   it might take ages until the first rush class is there... but once it's there, the virgo time is over.
  
6 like with t-rex / madonnzila the rush should fight after a torper that destroys the virgo's shields.
   the madonns supply the rush with fighters, and lizard/saurian classes tow the virgos out.
   if you do it right, one single rush will destroy a virgo per turn - if you keep it undamaged.



2752 days, 11 hours, 55 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Who needs a Gemini, the Virgo has enough cargo to do a good enough job to build its own fighters.

And you can set friendly code to "lfm" and mission to mine sweep, and load up the approparite minerals and you'll build fighters and sweep in the same turn.

But I'm confused, the scenario involved a Privateer Golem, how did we get to talking about the Colonials? :)

Anyway, wouldn't the LCC be robbed instantly when it drops cloak?

If that is the case, then I don't see any way to save both SBs.  YOu have to pick the most important one and chunnel a torp ship that will do enough damage to the Golem so that the 60/200 base can finish it off.

But really, chunnel enough ships in so that if the Golem does not advance, you can actually then defend both planets from the Golem and also send an offensive on the planet they just took.
2752 days, 11 hours, 4 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply


ah, see, now i learned something new - i thought that the mission must be 'build fighters' when using lfm...
anyway - destroying the colonial eco is much easier and done without losses in comparison to going for the big ships. there is no ship in the colonial fleet (except the patriot and the virgo) that can cope with a mk7 lcc. it's like in the supermarket....

------
about the older thing: as it turned out, the golem was not set to rob, but destroyed the left star base, which was not important for the builds. it took 98% damage, and a loki moving next to the planet two turns later (to decloak possible priv cloakers) + a biocide class with full shields destroyed both, the golem class and the accompanying meteor, when they came back from the warp well to repair the carrier. in the end it was a deal of one pbp build vs a destroyed starbase, which in this case couldn't have worked better.
2752 days, 10 hours, 58 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong scenario, but where is there any mention of a Colonial ship in this one?

Oh nvm, I ssee now the Virgo Blitzkrieg scenario... my bad.

For that problem I'd try to get as many low ID LCCs as I could and have them wait at the planets along with Lokis in the Warp Well to detect any MBRs.

Then I'd tow away Virgos to LCC / T-Rex / Mandozilla combos.

I'd also use high ID LCCs to cloak intercept any Cobols that I see towing Virgos. 

Once the Virgo numbers drop a tad I'd start using 150 lyr Minefields, since $$ is no object, you can still do some damage.  In Fact I'd drop 150 lyrs minefields in my name, and also my allies IDs as well to make travel as difficult as possible.

While the Colonies potentially slow down so they can clean up these minefields from a safe distance I'd try to us that time to cloak intercept the Cobols.

At the same time try to get LCCs behind their lines and perhaps take some planets by ground attack.

Naturally any planet that you think will be hit by the Virgos must be completely cleaned up of Fuel and any fighter building materials.  Its going to be a scorched earth policy until you gain the upper hand.  This is a PBP battle all the way, and if you take out a Virgo with T-rex Mandozilla combo then you are going to come out well ahead.

Uhmm...yeah, I'd do all that :)  Not sure what option that comes closest to exactly, maybe its a combination of most options ;)

Also with Falcons you can send LCCs deep into enemy territory, have them go in orbit, drop 290 clans, then fly to the edge of the warp well where a HYP ship wont' get sucked in, have a Falcon meet the LCC there and restock 150 clans, then rinse and repeat this until the planet falls.  I don't know how you stop this, its impossible IMO.  The planet WILL fall, there is really nothing that anyone can do about it.
2752 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
it's a good one...
2752 days, 9 hours, 55 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Dude: multiple choice.  This is proving to be a confusing concept for the members.

Pick 1,2,3,4 or 5.
2752 days, 9 hours, 55 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Dude: multiple choice.  This is proving to be a confusing concept for the members.

Pick 1,2,3,4 or 5.
2752 days, 9 hours, 40 minutes ago
View capnkill's profile
capnkill
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Yeah I know, but neither answer is correct:

1. Begin rerouting the Lokis to prevent the Privateers from doubling your troubles and engage the Colonies with your entire firepower along the front closest to the Lokis coming in with this new protection.

I like the Loki part, but not the part where you go head on into the Colonial fleet.

2. Use the cash, minerals, and supplies to build and arm starbases as well as you possibly can along your border planets with only about 100 clans and lots of cash and minerals on each.  Move all your ships and whatever they can carry off those planets to keep them out of combat.

This is wrong because a Virgo can take out a maxed out SB.

3. Punch a hole in the Colonial fleet with more mines than they can handle.  You can make thousands of torpedoes.  Then intercept the most damaged with pairs of TRex/Madonzilla combos.

This is questionable because the Colonials can have all Virgos in one big stack.  You don't know if they have a butt load of supplies on hand to repair any insignificant damage a mine hit can do to a Virgo.

4. Use the Falcons to HYP into the warpwells to assist in mine sweeping in case of cloaked minelayers.

I guess, that's fine, but this option can't be correct because it doesn't save you from getting run over.

5. Build a starbase on each of the first four border planets.  Put 2500 clans each of the first four planets to increase defense posts to 100.  Max out the defenses of the starbases. Park a single TRex over each planet.  Set the TRex to mine sweep with primary enemy: Colonies and the planet to friendly code: nuk.

This would be the most reasonable answer with a HEAVY assumption that Privy's are not involved in this.  If they are they can obviously just tow the T-rex out to your Virgo while another takes the planet. 

I like this option if Lokis were involved. 

Ultimately I think it is most important to teach people correct strategy out of these scenarios, so its important to note that a combination of some of the options is the best way to go as opposed to just a single tactic.

I think the trouble for me is to have to accept that one of these options, alone, is the correct answer to the problem, which obviously neither of these options are going to save your bacon :)
2751 days, 20 hours, 7 minutes ago
View ace-pilot275's profile
ace-pilot275
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Daniel

Based on you explanations, option number 5 would be the most practical one to initiate.  Unless I am wrong , throughout this game, the privateers haven't been making much of an impact on lizard plans. And besides, in case of MCBRs a small minefield out of reach of the colonies or two would not possible hurt. 
2751 days, 7 hours, 41 minutes ago
View thin lizzy's profile
thin lizzy
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply

2
2750 days, 7 hours, 20 minutes ago
View daniel payne's profile
daniel payne
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Well people, it has been four days.  Time to spill the beans on puzzle #4.

The key to this one is in strategic thinking versus tactical thinking.  It is a critical part of success in VGAP, and lacking in most players' approach. One person got the correct answer.

Here is a rundown of each answer.

-Use the Falcons to HYP into the warpwells to assist in mine sweeping in case of cloaked minelayers. 

...This is a cute trick, and usually the best method for minesweeping as the Rebels.  Falcons cost only one PBP and can HYP right into a warp well to sweep where they can not be easily intercepted.  Without this option, the Rebels are left with Iron Ladies which surrender in combat and suck in general.  But there is no need here.  No matter how big a minefield the enemy drops, the number of high tech beams on your other ships is sufficient to take care of it.  This one is useless, which makes it one of the BETTER options given.
************************************************
- Punch a hole in the Colonial fleet with more mines than they can handle.  You can make thousands of torpedoes.  Then intercept the most damaged with pairs of TRex/Madonzilla combos.

...This one is a complete waste of resources.  Unless you can force the Colonies to take their mission off of Mine Sweep, this one will never succeed.  It takes 1125 fighters to sweep every mine field in a 100 light year radius, and the Colonies have that and more.  Try this one and you will get caught without a plan when the Colonial fleet arrives.
*******************************************
-Begin rerouting the Lokis to prevent the Privateers from doubling your troubles and engage the Colonies with your entire firepower along the front closest to the Lokis coming in with this new protection.

...This choice is paranoid and will almost certainly cause you more trouble than it is worth.  The description said that the Privateer player does not like to mess with prepared opponents.  He knows you have Lokis everywhere, and he has his hands full with the Rebels.  Your fleet will get annihilated this way, and most of your Lokis with it.
********************************
-Build a starbase on each of the first four border planets.  Put 2500 clans each of the first four planets to increase defense posts to 100.  Max out the defenses of the starbases. Park a single TRex over each planet.  Set the TRex to mine sweep with primary enemy: Colonies and the planet to friendly code: nuk.

...This one will lose you the game.  You will lose all of your clans on the front.  You will lose most or all of your TRexes.  You will have used all your resources to manage it.  And most importantly, you will get no priority build points in the process, so you can not rebuild.  You do not get PBPs when a planet destroys a ship.  Your opponent, on the other hand will get 5 PBPs for every TRex he destroys.  This will put you even further behind on power and the problem will be worse in a few turns s when his next wave of newly built Virgos comes in.  Worse yet, your entire offense will be shot because you can't even clan drop for many turns.  This is the WORST option.
*************************************
-Use the cash, minerals, and supplies to build and arm starbases as well as you possibly can along your border planets with only about 100 clans and lots of cash and minerals on each.  Move all your ships and whatever they can carry off those planets to keep them out of combat.

...And here we are.  Why does this one work out, you ask?  Simple: use tactics that support a smart overall strategy. With the economy you have and the uselessness of mine fields, every penny should go into building and arming starbases along your border. It takes 8900 megacredits, 320 duranium, 582 tritanium, 460 molybdenum, and two turns to build and fully arm a starbase on any planet.  With only 100 clans each, thet will not fight as well as the 2500 clan versions, but the difference is not all that big.  It is the most powerful fighting unit the Lizards have by a long shot, and has about a 1/3 shot at destroying a Virgo.  The ones not destroyed will sustain heavy damage, which is actually a better outcome for you. Considering you do not need to use a ship build to make one, it is a bargain any way you look at it. You have something like 12 planets for him to take before he gets to any planets you care about and a constant stream of resources to arm them.  Let him take them!  He can't get past them at the mass of those Virgos (not enough fuel).  He did not bring any Cobols, so he has to stop for fuel. He will lose a few Virgos and heavily damage the others.  And you are taking the supplies off the planets, so he can not repair.  Then you pummel the damaged ones in carefully structured combat of TRexes and Madonzillas with LCCs to tow them if you like.  You lose almost nothing and your opponent's fleet is decimated.  He gets no PBPs for destroying starbases while you get 7 for each Virgo you blast with ships.  It is not a perfect scheme.  You are likely to lose a few TRexes, but with only Patriots and Virgos, you are unlikely to be subject to any surprises.  The important detail is to let the starbases go down fighting while your ships do the mop-up, not the other way around.The net result is a complete turn around in power.

I hope you all enjoyed the puzzle.  Congratulations, Thin Lizzy for getting it right!  Thanks to MJS for helping me see the error I made in phrasing, and then not letting the cat out of the bag.
2749 days, 20 hours, 52 minutes ago
View smn's profile
smn
RE: You Make the CallWrite Reply
Yes the 2500 clans sounded a bit crazy in option 5 :)

Also I didn't realise that ship kills with a starbase earn no build points, that changes the equation too.

Good puzzle!