What surprise!

Some questions:

1) Some of the fascist ships in the star cluster documentation are also available in other races (deth specula is Bird and Priv too). Are they shielded too?

2)What happens when any of three new stellar objects overlap?

3)Why are some star clusters red?

4)Can you include a "leyend" in the documentation to see this features?

5)Bug: Homeworld in surrounded #21392 is within the radiation belt of a star cluster - I have lost 11 ships already? Why isn't there a "star cluster" base?

6)Is it possible to have a HW starting in a Nebula or Debris Disk? If Yes, is it directly of the "upgraded" type?

7) There should be a message for damage done by radiation, just like with "nasty" Ion Storms. Perhaps call it the "medical emergency" section? ;) My 11 ships are crewless and nothing was reported.

Very nice, lots of work to be done on this add on to make it spectacular.... imagine this with explore map and sphere... will be pretty nice.

It makes much of the current discussions about maintaining friendly codes rather amusing.

Good questions Figak:

1) Yes - The shielding goes with the ship design, regardless of the race.

2) Nebula's and Star Clusters can overlap but not the others. Ion Storms have specific effects from Star Clusters and Nebulas as specified. When a nebula and star cluster overlap they have their "normal" affect. But you can see the star cluster.

3) Some star clusters are cooler than others which means lower radiation. You can not actually see the temperature, but red ones have the lowest temperature and therefore radiation. Orange slightly above that, then white then blue-white.

4) Good idea.

5,6) In regular games Homeworlds can not start inside of a Nebula, Debris Disk or Radiation Halo. In Surrounded anything is possible.

7) Good idea.. will get added right away. There are lots of new messages for different events like flying into a star cluster or debris disk or laying mines on them etc.

What happens to Moscow Class & Armed Transports in radiation zones?

... insane! have to try it immediately.

and what next? black holes where ships and mines get sucked in, depending on the distance? or a big one slowly deforming the whole star map?

Just joined the Alpha game. The terrain seems to favor me!

Thanks Joshua, I'll do some salvaging of my own orbitting ships ;)

Thin Lizzy, wormholes addon exists for THOST, was a good laugh specially when UFOs came out of them after using one.

took a first look: i LOVE the nebulae, and have zillions of star cluster suns - this is cylon terrain ... i must be careful.

^^ figak, i know ... of course sucked in slowly when far away and if you come too close then the gravity speed is faster than the ship.. and 'slurp' away it is - forever. tough luck if you run directly into a center - no chance. (actually i know that there are some black holes on some star maps, they're just invisible)

If I understood correctly the star clusters are good for the Fascists and the Robots. Bad for tow capturing. Expect strong bases.

Nebulas are good for taxing natives for megacredits. Also good for escaping from Privateers. Birds and Borg will see and take advantage of you in the nebula.

Asteroid fields produce minerals but are very open for ground attacks as there are no mine fields and limited populations. Lizard land.

Josh,

I've been wondering why you have been so quite lately. My only regret is that my game card is full right now, so I can jump in a new game with these new features.

Hummm, not sure about this. I played the surround scenario just to see the starmap. Looked awesome. However, the lizards started in an asteroid field where all my clans were dying; built a baby-base but couldn't build ships and all my large/medium ships were destroyed as soon as they left. Now, I would enjoy the challenge and would obviously eventually win, but one would need to start from scratch which would take 30 turns.
I assume this wouldn't happen in a real game right?
Still looks really interesting.

You are right dragon. You would not start in a asteroid field or a star's radiation. We've just patched Surrounded! so that it doesn't happen there either.

LOL, okay, tried it again and this time I was not put into an Asteroid field. Yea! However, I was placed in a nebula next to a star cluster. therefore, on my first turn all of my ships crew died on all of my ships except for 12 of them. Ouch. You are making this a tough game to win huh? I think I am starting to like the challenges placed before me. ;-)

Perfect. Now the planet win condition isn't a race any more. Now some strategy must be involved.

Cobols are no longer able to just go any where they want. The colonial has to work out the move.

Fascist are giving some help they need.

I can just go on and on. This addresses alot of issues.

Do planetoids have any effect on planet count for victory?

I created a Surrounded game to have a look at the new features and I was amazed at how densely packed the planetoids are and how much minerals they have. Of course the trick is to get those minerals some place useful.

Lastly I found what might be a minor bug. When I set a Cobol's waypoint to a planetoid I get a warning message saying it can't reach that way point.

Being a borg its not that I mind this feature, but it might be a tad to powerful - for debris disks this is stated as a feature

"Opening a Firecloud warp chunnel (start or end) from inside of a debris disk will cause all ships in the chunnel to be destroyed by asteroids sucked into the wormhole."

A borg could then surprise chunnel a chunk of an opponents ships to a debris disk, effectivly destroying all enemy ships (and his fireclouds, sure...) - right now all we get are shieldless enemy ships, something which I have used to great advantagde - but this is even better ;)

Regards

But he will not have KPs for doing so, Jobo,...

I haven't tryed the addon, but THIS is what I expect from Planets NU. Well thoght ideas to renew and reexperience this game.

I like the concept of the addon, and I will try it ASAP. It is REALLY exciting.

Still some work to be done. It seems natives can be seen on the starmap, but not on the planets. Planets with natives will not center the map when you select them. See my entry in the bug forum.
Overall it's a great add-on but I wouldn't recommend starting a game just yet.

When is this addon ran in the host order?

I built a "planet cluster base" and it hasn't protected my ships, but perhaps the base was built after the crew lost calculation?

somehow i like it, when playing around in the new terrains

i feel that the "discovered" planets within nebulae should be greyed out a bit, so that it stays clear that they are places to be explored..

I like it too, would be nice to know how many planets remain "missing".

The radiation messages are mis-formatted. It reports the number of dead crew twice, instead of dead crew/remaining crew left:

From: Taurus Class Scout ID#30
Our crew is experiencing severe radiation from a nearby star cluster. 14 of our crew have been killed. Only 14 crew remain to pilot the ship.

From: Cobol Class Research Cruiser ID#21
Our crew is experiencing severe radiation from a nearby star cluster. 10 of our crew have been killed. Only 10 crew remain to pilot the ship.

From: Little Joe Class Escort ID#9
Our crew is experiencing severe radiation from a nearby star cluster. 13 of our crew have been killed. Only 13 crew remain to pilot the ship.

Pressing the Z key (super zoom) when on a planetoid causes the program to crash.

Odd, my spell check recognizes planetoids, but not planetoid.

"Ships that fly into or through a star cluster are destroyed."

"Ships can not be towed into a star cluster. The tow lock is lost as the towing ship enters the star cluster."

The tower is destroyed.

Is the towee also destroyed or left outside the star cluster?

Fantastic Add-On well done !

The chunnel destruction from asteroid fields may be a little too powerful. Towing a Firecloud into a prepared enemy position, running out of fuel to drop the towbeam, and then having the Firecloud chunnel post-movement would suck out all warp 0 ships and destroy them.

Mind you that's not a whole lot different from taking them to a prepared ambush.

What the docs say is the two kinds of chunnels. Afirecloud in a disk field or a firecloud chunneling into a disk field.

So you can hid from cyborgs in a disk field. hmm intersting.

Hmm, although I appreciate your work very much and the guys here welcome the new features, I will rather stay away from such games.
The features add a lot more (unnecessary?) complexity to the game - with many new special cases.

I would rather welcome improvements to the current game experience that make the game easier to understand and handle (such as a better UI for friendly codes). This would also benefit the player base as (likely) less new players will be discouraged by the game's complexity.
Moreover, I would like to see features like
- customizable race colors (like in echoview)
- selling supplies on the ship building screen
- easier switching between past turns
- improved configuration options for private games
- aggregation of messages that contain the same information
(e.g. I don't need x messages about the same minefield)
- message history for incoming and outgoing messages
- even more improvements on minefield laying/scooping (especially regarding the preview)
- automatic collection of information, e.g. for ships (as the ship list in echoview)
- public statistics about players (in which games are they / have they been in, for how long, etc.)
- etc.

That would be awesome! And it would target more players than addons. ;-)

...i like the graphical improvement of the new map very much !!! it transfers the beautiful new planet images to the map itself - and enhances the navigation and discussion on the map..

- couldn't these things be implemented into the classic game as well, and their behaviour just be switched off (or on)? a star cluster could be lethal or a regular planet (maybe a hot one), nebulae and asteroid belts 'just' background if you play a default config.. this would maybe soften the star map's character of a chess board.

(i have the locked game when superzooming to the asteroids as well - FF5)

The star map is the key graphical interface to the game. Any improvements that make this more exciting have to be considered a good thing. The better it looks, the better it advertises the game as a whole. So it will attract more players.

Costs for special Starbases are based on the cost of normal ones, do not ?

I think the Mining Starbase is too expensive, moreover when you have to build one on each planetoid to use them,... Maybe you could "dismantle" it to pick up and construct to the next planetoid, when the first one was exhausted,...
Just wild thoughts,...

Additionally, if each planet represents the most valuable planet on a star system, why on a debris disk it is not done in the same way ? Just 1 "planet" in the center of the disk,... if this were the situation, then the cost of the mining base would be ok.

Just suggestions,...

I have re-read the documentation and a doubt arises, concerning my previous post.

Do the Mining Station allow to live on ALL the same debris disk planetois or just on the planetoid were it is built ??

Looks great, good work :)

Although it looks too complicated to me, I'll rather stick to the good old version (never like add-ons). I try to keep it simple.. and addictive. ;)

Still very nice to see that you still keep up the enthisiasm!

OK, just got finished with a Surrounded game as the MCM. Took 50 turns because I wanted to explore what it was like to use the Debris Field planets. Some comments

1. Concerns about the planetary mining starbase are not warranted. They are cheap enough in minerals that once you get the first one going, the follow on bases are essentially just mc.

2. Exploiting the debris disks requires lightweight ships with large cargo to get minerals out and a large fuel tank to get fuel out or to go to nearby starbases. Looking at the shiplists:

All: MDSF with 200 cargo and 250 fuel
Feds: Nebula with 350 cargo and 470 fuel is ideal.
Lizards: LCC with 290/330 isn't much of an improvement over the MDSF
Birdmen: Resolute with 280/480. Could be good to carry out fuel from debris disks.
Fascists: These guys get screwed. Their best bet is a MDSF or a Coldpain with 100/480 for carrying fuel.
Privateers: Skyfire is 250/370. MCBR goes twice as fast but is only 120/285
Cyborg: Quietus has the best space/tank with 250/470, but fireclouds at 290/440 are more versatile, and could chunnel out as soon as they leave the debris field. Man, this would give them a nice advantage, a massive minerals base potentially far behind their lines. Makes me shudder just thinking about it.
Crystals: Ruby at 370/390 or Emerald at 258/480.
Evil Empire: SSCa can carry 180, but the SSCr has a 450 fuel tank. If they get free fighters, that would be a nice advantage.
Robotic Empire: Cat's paw at 300/300 or Q tanker at 120/600.
Rebels: Gemini at 400/350 or Tranquility at 380/460
Colonies of Man: Same as Rebels. Cobol is only 250 cargo, and the ramscoop isn't necessary with the mineral density.

Because of the shiplimit, I doubt many are going to create dedicated fleets for servicing debris disks, those slots are just too valuable. Instead what I see are torpedo/fighter manufacturing hubs for most races, since a torpedo needs 3 minerals and a fighter 5, it is more efficient to transport finished products. This gives a big advantage to the Rebels/Colonies since their Gemini can carry 400 cargo (supplies in, fighters out). Robots can benefit as well; with 500 clans each planetoid can produce 120 supplies, enough to build fighters for 2 Q tankers. The Borg can use Fireclouds to supply the minerals to any of their starbases.

Questions:
Do the EE get free fighters at Mining starbases?

Does the Lizard mining rate 4x with the Mining Base?

3. The Star Cluster radiation does make maneuvering a little more interesting, especially if there is a planet embedded in the field.

4. I really like the look of the cloudy ion storms. I could see just replacing the standard ones completely.

5. It seems like it would be difficult for an ion storm to make it to dangerous strengths, due to the damage they take upon hitting a nebula, cluster, or debris disk.

6. I think instead of the debris disks showing up as several systems together, it makes more sense to spread them out more. I mean, each "debris disk" still has several planetoids, but instead of having 5 groups of asteroids in one location, spread them out more. This would make it a little more "even" and give you real reasons to try and get to one first.

Sorry, ion storms only get destroyed if they hit the center of a cluster, or weakened if they hit a nebula.

OK, confirmed that the EE still get fighters from mining starbases.

I just joined the Gotti's Hideout system as the Fascists and My home world is located in a Radiation Halo with a radiation level of 105. Joshua you posted that this could not happen in a regular game.

Thanks Rasputen, thats definitely not supposed to happen. I fixed that game and will fix it for the future.

Requesting a replacement for the Birdmen in the very first "alpha" game of Stellar cartography. http://vgaplanets.nu/games/21385

Great idea from thin lizzy to have the "classic" games have the same look in their starmap, for beautification purpose only, if possible.

Are you planning team games with Stellar cart.?

Hmm. Gotti's Hideout has me started - you guessed it - within a radiation zone. The pre-built MDSF was stripped crewless immediately. Grim.

It's good that you now receive distress calls from ships in radiation circles. But you should tweak it so that the Robots don't receive them. As it is, they get spammed with a distress call from each ship in a radiation circle reporting that the radiation has killed 0 crew, and a full crew compliment remains.

It's not a huge issue, just message clutter.

The documentation for Nebulas ( http://vgaplanets.nu/documentation/nebulas ) says:
> Hide ships and planets: Each point of nebula has a visibility factor depending on the level of density. Ships and planets will only be visible at this range.

Does the same also apply for minefields?

Minefields are expensive in Nebulas since the decay rate is high. But they still make sense if they're not seen easily.

Suppose you have a ship at a point in the nebula that has 50 ly visibility, and there's another ship in the nebula 80 ly away but the visibility there is 100 ly.

Who will see who?

I'm finding planet search doesn't work in my stellar cartography game. Maybe it's disabled on purpose so you can't search for the planets you don't see, but it makes searching for particular planets very challenging.

The planets that are not visible to you should just not be searchable but you should be able to search the rest.

As I interpret it, it will work like this:

The ship in the part of the nebula that has 50 ly Vis can only be seen by ships within 50 ly radius, so the other ship that is 80 ly away won't see him.

The other ship can be seen by ships within 100 ly radius, so the first ship will be able to see him, even though he can not be seen.

I'd like to see the host order documentation updated.
There are several new host steps (crew killed, asteroid population killed, ships destroyed in star cluster, etc.) so it's important to know in which order this takes place.

I've noticed that even though the docs say that mining stations can only hold 20 fighters, I am able to load 60 fighters onto mining stations, from a ship.

The 20 fighter limit may only exist when the station itself tries to build them. I haven't tested that.

Seems the Fascist ships are still loosing crew and colonists. Is this being addressed or is the How To Play page going to be updated?

Radiation shielding ship radiation loss is now fixed.