Excellent! ;)

Excellent!

Couple of questions:

1. Does this mean that Premium and non-premium players will be playing together? For example, if I am still an ensign in a race I have never played before, I will be in an outer quadrant game. But, I don't want to play against people who cannot have the same tech as me.

2. The unregistered game was significantly different that the registered version and fun in its own right. Will there be any blowback if a person has a premium ID and and non-premium ID?

Thanks,

Mike

I just signed up for 2 year membership. I am still doubtful about how many people will pay $30/year for a ~20 year old game.

I believe for VGA-NU to thrive the game needs to grow/change beyond the 3.5 framework-from what I have read Josh seems to understand this. My hope is that some day we (well mostly Josh) can blend the best of VGAP3, VGAP4, STARS!, Master of Orion into a truly epic game.

I agree with your assessment lindybomber. It's gonna be fun seeing this project grow.

This should have prio 1:
"Continue to listen to feedback and implement ideas from our awesome players!"

It's far more important than the issues listed above it, imo.
E.g. things like customizable race colors, a better minefield preview, or echocluster functionalities like lists of spotted enemy ships and simulation of the next turn. A better algorithm for finding proper homeworlds would also be good.


Regarding the monetization concept:
It might had been better, if the Nu team would have collected some thoughts from the community first...


What about the support?
Is a fast support guaranteed (at least for premium members)? E.g. when encountering serious bugs causing heavy disadvantages, or for examining player accounts, if those are under a strong suspicion of cheating?


I hope you keep on doing the great work!
And I hope to get some answers. ;)

VGAP is always new no matter how long ago it was authored because the players who are your opponents are always sharpening their skils.
I am very much impressed with the Nu team, this has gone from an idea to a fully functioning and constantly improving platform very quickly. I just signed up for my first two year membership.
Onward!

I'm not so excited about this change. I mean, the price isn't too high and definitely the Nu team had been doing great progress with the game.

On the other hand, a game lasts for several months, let's say 70-80 turns. 3 turns a week means about 25 weeks. That's 6 months more or less. So ... you can't really be getting a 3 months or a 1 month subscription if you know what the game is about.

Also, the limitation is pretty strange, almost like the old shareware. "Shareware" games are much slower than "registered" ones. And it's not fun seeing someone with 2 times more ships than you, because you have to recycle and upgrade. It basically kills it for unregistered players. And it's not actually a difference for you, your server, your development cost, etc, you spend the same amount of resources running the host on a "shareware" turn and running a "registered" turn. Same with bandwidth for transferring turns to players. With this you're not asking compensation for an added value, you're asking a compensation for not "annoying" the unregistered player. What I'm saying here is this: you give something very nice for free, this game in its current form, and then you say, "ok, I'm taking it back, if you want it the _same_ way, you have to pay".

The other advantages make sense: fancy addons, competitions, etc. But ... do you know who will want them? Did you ask? @Nakor is right, I think you need to work with the community if you want its support in the form of subscriptions.

I think you need to ask people "what _extra_ features would you pay for?". And my answer is "to ensure people don't multiplay dead races", and the 1 month subscription is catering exactly people multiplaying dead races ;) Also I would pay for being allowed to play more than 1-2 games at a time. I would pay for "support". I would pay so you can continue dedicate time to develop this game and to be able to pay the bills for the servers. I would pay for playing with more dedicated players, ones which are not likely to drop-out. I would pay so you hire an interface designer ;) I would also pay for better icons, usability and speed improvements in the UI.

But I will never pay a subscription for level 10 tech and for "Eligibility to win real prizes".

We all knew that this was not for free. They did not give it for free and then take it back, they offered the beta for free and told us that they would start charging to play as soon as they got 99% of the bugs out.
I am sorry vesuvius but I totally disagree with you. As a businessman I know I have to give some free samples but I also expect to get paid for what I do and I expect my company to get paid for the services they render. I HATE Socialism and I am so against the seeming trend of people expecting things for free.
If this site does not make it because not enough people are willing to pay a reasonable fee to play a fun game and to have constant use of a community forum on a game they like then it would be a loss but no one should expect the developers of NU to have to take a vote on how to run their business. For them while it may be a labor of love, it is work. It is their business and they can set the prices and the rules. If we think their is value we pay, yes we can comment and suggest and guess what? They have shown that they listen.
The question should not be what extra features would you pay for , the statement should be, Thanks for providing a basic game for free.
Sorry but this attitude of wanting the fruits of someone else’s labor for free really gets to me.
If you do not agree just flame on!
Or, Flame out, your choice!!

I will be joining in a day or 2. The way they are going to do it acceptable. It is not the way I would do it. But, if you got 100 of us VGAPers in a room and we each presented a plan, there would be 100 different plans.

One clarification/change please:

Make each game for either premium players (tech 10) or non-premium players and premium players (limit is tech 7 for everyone).

The non-premium player games would serve 4 groups:
1. Those who are learning or relearning the game and will become premium members.
2. Those who are learning or relearning the game and will decide it is not for them.
3. Those who know the game, are too cheap to pay, and are freeloading.
4. Premium members who play for the variety of a tech 7 game.

The value to groups 1, 2, and 4 is high enough that we can tolerate group 3.

And, if I play in a game as premium member (tech 10) I WILL DROP OUT of it if I find there are tech 7 people in it. I don't care if it ruins the game for others. The game would already be ruined for me.

It would be like knocking a little old lady to the ground and then kicking her until you got bored with it. Some people may enjoy that. I don't.

BTW,
1. Thanks for Paypal. Excellent addition.
2. I looked at the team game sign-up. Excellent organization.

Anybody that complains (except for me), just ignore them. (grin)

(And fix the new minefield bug that was recently introduced!!! . . . pleeeeease.)

I'll be signing up for a 1 year sub.

A lot of good work has gone into this site and it already has revived a once thriving planets community. I'm also glad to see that the ranking system will be revisited and pleasantly surprised to see the call for smart phone app development.

vesuvius - we are beta testers for a subscription based game. That is a common model and was clear to most of us from the start. In thanks for your service, I will offer you a special 50% discount. Get 6 months for the price of 3! :-P

Valhalla
Chief Tire Kicker and Troublemaker

I agree with Baer and Valhalla... it was fairly clear that this site was in Beta (albeit looking pretty complete as a beta, at least since I signed up). And it was also pretty clear that there would be a cost at some point (just as mentioned above, you can't get something for free...).

I know I'll sign up for at least 3-6 months... and see if things stay interesting.

I also would like to see some of the development going in the direction of some of the popular addons that existed back in the version 3 days...
That would definitely improve my satisfaction level.

BUT, you know what? the price is reasonable on a per month basis. Compare it to some of the MMORPG's... which charge ~$15/month... $2.50/month (for a year at a time) for VGAP NU is a fair market point, I think.
Just my 2 cents.

Many thanks to the developers for staying faithful to the spirit of the original vga planets. I look forward to the new stuff!

I'll sign up, however I think games should always be restricted to all-registered or all-unregistered. Unregistered games can be a lot of fun, as they require some interesting planning and logistics.

A player's max tech should be determined at the time of joining, and not revert when the subscription expires. If that means you buy a month's sub, join a few games, and let it lapse, so be it.

It might be a bit late to suggest it, but how about a funding model something like poker? Everyone pays a stake, and the 'house' takes half, then gives out the rest as prizes.

>It might be a bit late to suggest it, but how about a funding model something like poker? Everyone pays a stake, and the 'house' takes half, then gives out the rest as prizes.

Where are you playing poker? I want to either invest either in them or invite you to play at my "house".

LOL Anyway, prizes will be fun. They don't need to be monetary. Special medals and/or an extra month of sub would do.

All-registered and all-unregistered games don't make sense... As soon as somebody likes it, he will upgrade... and he has to leave the game and restart from zero? How would that help.

I think it is fine as it is now. The players that don't stay will drop out at some point (shareware limitation or not). If they stay they'll upgrade. Especially at such a reasonable price.

Easy decision for me... and I'm only in one game right now. Still lots of entertainment for $3/month...

Just signed up for a year. £1.59/month, thats great value. Keep up the good work Joshua and looking forward to the great stuff to come.

One small request: on the profile where it shows the date when premium expires, can you use MMM/DD/YYYY instead of MM/DD/YYYY?

7/9/2013 means 7th of September to me.

Jul/9/2013 would be unambiguous.

I love the fact that many of the mad ideas we have proposed have made it up here. The API specially, but many others too.

I have been asking for a "donate" button for some time, so for me less than 2 Eur /month is fine. I get more out of this game over a month than I get out of a beer for the same price and time.

As for the shareware questions, I think it can be:

1) only premium
2) only shareware - any premium member (or mid game upgrade) in a shareware only game would be/remain shareware only as per game.
3) jungle mode - mixed, getting steam rolled by a premium would make people join even if just for 3 months. It would be a good "learning" game too.

So long as you know from the game conditions, it's all fair. All existing games could remain "jungle mode" or put some voting in place so that players to decide which way to go.

I've already signed for 1 year (30$ are worth 21€ today).

What about a message system among the forum users with no need to discuss personal questions in a thread?

A few suggestions from my side:

1. It is not necessary to have "all unregistered" or "all registered" games only - just make sure what kind of game people join. It might be fun to try a tech 7 game against premium players, but it sure is not fun to find out halfway through that you are steamrollered.
Figak's Idea of only premium / only shareware / jungle mode is perfect!

2. Paying in a time based system doesn't really make sense for Planets in my opinion, since it would be rather annoying to have to pay again or loose capabilities in the middle of a game. Either have the game continue as it started (I started as Premium member, so I will finish as Premium member, no matter when the sub runs out) or charge per game instead of per month.

Other than that, keep up the good work!
Great game that deserves some sort of payment!

>Sorry but this attitude of wanting the fruits
>of someone else’s labor for free really gets to me

As a sales man, you should know that you can't do what you want ^^
I think you haven't played other successful bgames, or?
There are always people like you, and most of the time those games die because the company thinks the same ^^
Perhaps that guy just knows how you can get the most of a online product? Theres a reason why every online game goes f2p, because the better 'salesmans' understand (slowly), how to handle an online product. The sad thing is, many players know what a game kills from experience with f2p products (where they always have to argue with those people who say that the dev team needs money ^^)
And there are examples of very successful f2p games, where you don't have an advantage with the cashshop.
You need a solid playerbase, people won't pay from the beginning, ...
Thats the reason why f2p games are so successful.
But we will see, i'll wait with my registration. I don't wanna have a dead game with only 10-15 active games (not shareware games). If i'm sure VPL nu could provide that + my other points i mentioned in the forum, i'll register.

Good news. Signed up for 24 months.

Can you make it immediately apparent when you look at a game if a player is registered? Something like Pobs®. That will make it easier for the time being to get a feel for who's registered, and then going forward how serious your opposition would be when you look at a game.

One final point. The point of the unregistered option should not be to allow people to play restricted at tech 6, it should simply be a stepping stone to allow those player to try the game free of charge before they decide whether they want to commit their money. The goal should be that everyone moves to premium, or decides to drop from playing if they decide they do not like the game, or cant get the value from their premium cost.

Josh,

What can you tell us about about this Planets API (programming interface) you are planing? What will a player need to know in order to use this function? I did a little coding here and there back in the day, I may have to start relearning.

Also, any chance of getting some form of scenario editor? Something like the master script in version 4.0 wold be awesome.

@mjs68508 - There will be games in the inner quadrants which do not require any special rank but will require premium membership.

If there is a demand there will also be "shareware style" games for premium members, but the standard "shareware" outer planets games will always allow either premium or shareware players. Basically, if you are premium you can join whatever you want and we want players in the shareware games to upgrade because their neighbor did. As Pobs said the goal is go get people go upgrade so we build the strength in the premium community.

The technology pressure upgrade system worked for Tim the first time and we are betting on it working again.

@Lindy - The first version of the Planets API will be focused on making client data accessible and modifiable. This will allow custom client programs to be created, or additional tools like Echoview or Randmax or any other way that people want to look at the game data. It will not allow custom events to happen in the host or in-game addons to be developed. We'll be considering that a bit later. We'll also be looking at a few ways to allow the current UI to be extended by other developers in a pluggable way. You will need to be a reasonably experienced developer to work with the API.

We do want to extend the private games designer to become a complete scenario editor in the long run including the ability to have custom ship lists, maps, game configuration and starting position setup.

hello,

like figak i cannot read the dates until the membership expires clearly, because the american way of mm/dd/yyyy is different from the european dd.mm.yyyy

and i have read in one profile that it will expire 10/07/2013 for example.. should it not be okt/01/2013 plus the three months early bird bonus = jan 1st 2014?

just for interest..

great job! will also sign up soon

The ISO date standard is YYYY-MM-DD, because it's sortable and usually unambiguous, since it's large->small.

I agree that to avoid confusion my date of 7/10/2012 should read either Jul-10-2012 or 10-Jul-2012. Using the three digit month plus four digit year is the only way the whole world is sure of the true date.

What will happen with the games we are currently in if we stay "free". Build a new base and be suddenly limited to tech 7 or whatever would really suck. That said I think I will go premium anyway its cheaper than WOW

I vote we keep the dates the way they are.

Maybe after we teach those in the Old World how to properly write a date, we will be able to wean them off that Metric System.

Excuse me, I got to go load 1320 tons of Neutronium onto my Biocide.

Pounds and ounces, forever!

Those in the "old world" had mathematics, philosophy, rethorics and many other things when in your country people were still in the Stone Age.

Anyway it is obvious that the USA was colonized in many ways by the English: you already start talking like you are the center of the universe. Thanks God the Chinese will soon show you the error...

:-p

"Those in the "old world" had mathematics, philosophy, rethorics and many other things when in your country people were still in the Stone Age."

Mere trifles. We invented McDonalds, Starbucks, and VGA Planets. What more does a well-rounded person need in retirement?

"Another latte, please!"

Draven OWNED
XDDDDDDDD

You've totally convinced me.

We will be back in a growth mode as soon as we vote out obama.
As for China, they will be the manufacturing center for all of us for as long as their costs and prices are lower and not one second more.

Wow, that escalated quickly!

O.K., Time out.

I screwed up royally. I introduced politics into this discussion and should have not done so.

I actually didn't mean that as a political comment. I have a weird sense of humor (See the Helm's Deep banter board thread) and I thought my statement was just apolitical and funny. But, obviously, I was wrong.

Please, let's just discuss VGAP here and leave the weightier discussions to other websites.

For me, gaming is a time when people of all politics, religions, races, genders, etc. can take a time out and just hang together as "Humans."

Mike

I understood it was just a joke, so I replied the same way. If someone's been offended I'm so sorry.

@Baer: Before complaining take a look at presidents in other countries and perhaps (only perhaps) you find out you are not so bad.

@msj: Humans? Have you said humans? Humans are only good for tech 10 hulls. XDDDD

'The Earth is only interesting if it is found in the Starmap.'
(old cylon saying)

Other countries. I have an office in China, I had an office in Milan and in Macchester UK and in Detizenback Germnany. Believe me I Know.
Anyway, joke it is and no further political response from me on this in this thread :-)

No offense taken here! It was a quote from the movie "Anchorman". (After the anchor-fight in which Brick kills another anchor with a trident) A little too veiled, i guess.

mjs68508,

No matter how clear you think your sarcasm is someone will take it seriously. Someone even coined a "law" about that, but I can't remember what it is called.

I think he just got offended by the word "old" from "old world" ^^
Just remember, kids wanna do everything different. But, if they get in a serious age, they will see, that it was a mistake xD
Just take the USA as a rebellious kid ^^
(USA va Europe part 10224)

Yes, young men know the rules, but old men also know the exceptions.

You are lucky there is no English people here... otherwise they would remind you that you still haven't paid the tea. :-)

As a hard-core "Race B" player I have a soft spot for the 12 Colonies... but you got it all wrong with 13 ones!

As to the registration issue: I strongly support the notion to have registered games and free games, with paying members having access to both, but if they enter free games they also are restricted to TL 7.

A shareware player against a registered player usually was mincemeat - with the notable exception of a Privateer who can score some Ghipsoldal natives and just 'obtains' the front-line ships.

No games in which free and registered players facing on their respective terms! That would just turn off people from an otherwise great game (and would be buying an in-game advantage for money, something I hate in all online games)

What happen with the current games?

Are you going to lose the tech levels?

I think that the register rules have to apply to the new games and not to old games.

I think that those rules apply directly.
If you have a Tc10 sb in a game, you won't loose it. But after the update you can't anymore raise the tc level beyond tc6

Sry for this double post xD
At least VPL nu differs from the original shareware. You can raise your techlevel to 7 instead of 6 (yeehaa for birds) ^^

Sirius is correct. Your starbases will not lose any tech level. However you will not be able to raise above tech 7 unless you upgrade to premium for $3. This will happen on October 1st.

I am sorry to say it Joshua, but that is really not a good thing. It forces people to either pay, or get lost.

If in one of my games, I would loose SB's because of battles. I will never ever be able again to build lvl-8/9/10 parts/ships. Nor would I be able to feed my remaining ships with Mark 7 torps. Rendering my fleet useless against paying members.

So instead of wasting my time to try to finish the game(s) before the 1st of October, it would save me time now to quit and move on to something else - and that can not be good for the game and community.

As a side note: I am not willing to pay for online games, and especially not where you get in game serious advantages over non paying players. Hwne you share the same game field where you are playing against each other.

As a double side note: i really like VGAP.nu and admire all the hard work you have put into this. And I know that you need compensation for that + be able to continue working on this product and keep the back-end in the air. However I believe there are much better ways to generate income than what is currently choosen.

People pay money to play facebook games. Yes you can not spend money but alittle spent gives you an advantage. $30 dollares is a resonable figure. Just the Blitz games make it worth the price.

Someone has to pay
I don't like this system, therefore i mentioned some possibilities. I just thought that a little money from many players would be better then much money from just some users.

But seriously, if you aren't willing to pay for an online game, Joshua won't be sad, if you quit ^^
Getting money from the players is the only way to generate income in an online game (you won't get much money with advertising).

I also agree that $30 is a fair price. Just thinking that it gives me entertainment for a whole year... playing an awesome game. And I'm willing to pay it straight instead of alternatives with advertisement, etc. (there still could be good other alternatives).

Btw. other games also limit you in the amount of things that you can do until you are paying customer.

Buy the one, see ya. Hope you enjoy Farmville.

I think the price is ok if interface and hosting improvements are made in a reasonable pace. I'll get a premium member the next days.

I really liked the dozens of hours fun I had up to now for free. The main problem are - as since the beginning of anonymous internet VGAP games - dropping players. I hope this will get better in the officer games. Therefore some additional tweaks will have to be done (like more balanced starting positions) but that will be discussed int eh formus and hopefully implemented.

CU in space, Emork.

I do not think the price is O.K.

I would not have a problem to pay 5$ per game but not 30$/year if I can only play one game at a time anyway ...

The price does not matter all that much - as long as there are interesting games ;) But if I could choose between the two payment methods, I would prefer to pay pr game - not to save money, but like others I believe it would help with players dropping from games - if you have to pay for each game, you are less likely to drop a game just because of a minor setback (like being attacked - seems about 50% of the players I attack drop from the game on the following turn).

Regards

ah for the love of god - was testing what happended to new players when they join - wrong account - real one is Jobo ;)

Regards

In general I like the idea of "testaccount" to pay per game to reduce the number dropping players. This shouldn't be applied to private games, only for open to all games.
Basic example: You pay 50$ fpr 2 years and you can play unlimited private games and have e.g. a credit for 10 open to all games. If your 10 games are used up you can purchase new game credits for 5$. If your 2 years are over you can buy another year for 10$.

Too complicated, too expansive?

Other questions would have to be solved, e.g. what about the very welcome (good) replacements?

+1 for pay per game
In my eyes its not rly fair that someone who plays 10 games pays the same like someone who plays just 1.
That guy with 10 games just uses more bandwidth, destroys the fun for serious players, ...

Clearly for 112 sirius unrelated players.... LOL

/serious on

Let's see how it goes and, as we have seen in other places, Joshua is not afraid to tweak things down the line we just have to give sometime for the new system to go live.

I would be silly to "overtweak" when system is not even "live" yet.

+1 for pay per game!

Reasons have been stated.

I am also OK with pay per game. I am not OK with freeor getting something for nothing and I would rathjer pay then have to put up with ingame advertising.
I already signed up for premium but pay per game if fine also.

baer: if it works like that, but all other online games showed that a monthly subscription fee doesn't work as good as a f2p game. You just make much more money with f2p

Whatever, just as long as I do not become part of supporting someone who will not pay their fair share. I also have no interest in playing VGAP Farmville.

In the pay per game model what happens when a player drops at turn 50 and a sub takes over? Does the sub get to play for free? No refunds to the original player?

If private games are free then what is the incentive to play "public games"?

The game is payed, so it should be free imo (easy way to find replacements)
It would be the best for the players in that game

The game is payed, so it should be free imo (easy way to find replacements)
It would be the best for the players in that game

How many players are registered now?

In my four games only 3 players are, consider to quit.

4 players in 2 games for me

I'm a cheapskate and plan to save my $3 by waiting 'till mid-August to sign up, and I doubt I'm the only cheapskate on the site. Come August and September, I think we'll see a lot of people signing up.

kira, remember the free version is still full till October, 1...

Just some observations having had a chance to think about this for a while... First I think this is excellent value for money and I'm happy to pay. The sadist in me also likes the idea of mixed reg/unreg games - could a fighter race with only tech 6 available defend itself against the fascists with tech 10? interesting. But more importantly what actually happens on the 1st Oct? Do the existing games keep running with Tech 10 available to those unreg players? Do they suddenly lose that capability? That'd make for interesting game play for those races affected in the run up I'd imagine and perhaps if not then surely you'll get a mass join on the run up to the 1st Oct as unreg players join up for "free" registered games ?

A friend of mine pointed this game out to me and I immediately knew what it was. I used to run this game as a 'door' game back in the days of running a BBS. It was a popularity tie with the other game of that era named Tradewars. I think the value of registration is very fair and will be subscribing soon. I just have to get the cobwebs out of the way....