Most Versatile ship in the game.

I'm going to say... Resolute...

Discuss.

2728 days, 1 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Cobol

2727 days, 23 hours, 49 minutes ago

nyalaana

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

meteor class blocade runner

2727 days, 23 hours, 33 minutes ago

d-wreck

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I would have to add to this...

Most versatile ship in the:

1) Beginning Game LDSF

2) Mid Game MBR

3) Endgame Any big / badass Capital Carrier Ship

;)

2727 days, 22 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Falcon!!!!

2727 days, 20 hours, 17 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

For me it is the Emerald.

2 engine, large cargo bay, 8 beams and 3 torps. excellent all rounder.

2727 days, 20 hours, 4 minutes ago

mycroft

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I'll have to agree for a resolute.

But we all have to agree, to a skilled tactician. No one can beat the wide uses of a Merlin Class Alchemy Ship.

2727 days, 19 hours, 7 minutes ago

jomamasfat

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Emerald Class Cruiser

Good fuel tanks, high beam count, large cargo hold and decent mass.

2727 days, 17 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

capnkill, not the coolest one - the most versatile :)

(i'd go for the resolute - better in enemy star base fields)

2727 days, 16 hours, 35 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Liz owned LCC. Cloaks, fights most other mid sized ships, can capture freighters, can hiss, can protect a planet vs mid sized ships and most importantly, can hold a lot of pop for a ground assault.

Fireclouds, Falcons, Emeralds, MCBR, LDSF, Merlins, Lokis, pop ships and Resolutes are also damn nice.

2727 days, 8 hours, 28 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Falcon, for what I have used so far.

I am not so experienced though.

2727 days, 2 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

difficult question. So many good answers. Cobol is good (unlimited range, ok cargo size), emerald is one of the best armed freighters out there. Resolute can do just about anything. Falcon can move a full colony at once, anywhere....

If it wasn't for the cloaking device, I'd say the Emerald would be the best. The improved cloak on the Resolute gives it (just) an edge over the Emerald as the most Versatile.

2727 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Firecoluds

They have an unlimited range with only small fuel costs. 6/3 armament in addition to a good mass allows it fight most medium ships and win.

2727 days, 2 hours, 22 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Still say the Falcon, not cause its cool, but because it can be used for so many different things, after all, the key word is Versatility!

You can get 5 of these guys with Heavy Phasers and swoop in to sweep up a minefield then swoop right back out.

You can deliver 40 torpedoes of any type to your front lines from up to 360 lyrs away!!

You can deliver clans to your cloaked LCCs for ground attack from 360 lyrs away!!

You can deliver 120 cargo and 10,000 MCs from 360 lyrs away, and more, 720, even 3 hops if you know you can refuel for the return trips.

All of that is obviously applicable to 3 hops, so a total of 1080 lyrs travel in 3 turns with 120 cargo space and 10,000 MC capacity!

That is versatility!!!

In one game here the Falcon was 100% responsbile for saving a Rebel from certain demise at the hands of the Colonies. I, as the Crystals, was able to aid my Rebel neighbor in the nick of time ONLY because of the Falcon and its ability to perform 3 hops on 1 fuel tank and deliver 40 MK7s anywhere on the battle field. That's a 56 LYR Web Field on demand or 63 for MK8s.

Either way, if we're talking about Versatility, a Falcon cannot be beat. There is no single ship in the entire game that can do what a Falcon does.

There are plenty of cloakers with decent fuel tanks and cargo space, there are plenty of war ships that can pack a mean punch.

2727 days, 2 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Meh, I don't find that the Firecloud can do well in most fights. That's the big drawback to the Firecloud, it really suffers vs most medium ships. Obviously its chunneling ability is absolutely amazing, but it is not a versatile ship. It can do one thing and that's about it.

2727 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Fireclouds are 6/2, not 6/3. They suck in a fight vs other mid sized ships like Resolutes, Emeralds, Patriots, LCC, etc etc etc will all kill them easily.

HOWEVER, you do have a point. With them you can move an entire fleet an huge distance for only 50 fuel. You can also move massive amounts of pop and/or massive amounts of supplies vast distances for almost nothing. While not glamorous war ships, the economic advantages of fireclouds is huge.

2727 days, 1 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

capnkill, falcon + saurian ;)

2727 days, 1 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

That's not versatility though. I suppose, the Firecloud ENABLES MASSIVE versatility but it's not a versatile ship in itself.

Interest point for debate I suppose :)

Lizzy, why not 2 x Falcons + LCC?

2727 days, 1 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

also good, it depends on how many hpyers you have
and need to get the big cash to your minelayers.

the saurian uses much less fuel (30%) and can survive
better in enemy territory where fuel is scarce.
but that's my personal point of view.

but when you bring the falcon as a versatile ship into this,
i would like to advocate the transwarp merlin.
that's my personal favourite, and i have at least two of
them in every game.

incredible, what amounts of supplies this ship handles
in it's life time

2727 days, 1 hours, 37 minutes ago

streu

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

+1 for the Emerald. It has the biggest cargo room, surpassed only by the large freighters and the alchemy guys. Not too bad in combat, but of course no match to a decent carrier.

+1 for the LCC because it cloaks. Other than that, for an el-cheapo allrounder, Cat's Paw or Ruby also are fine.

--Stefan

2727 days, 1 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

>i would like to advocate the transwarp merlin.

I agree merlins are critical but wouldn't you be better served towing it w a w9 ldsf, lcc, resolute, emerald, etc? This saves you the cost of 6 w9 engines.

2726 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The most versatile ship, IMHO, is the Firecloud, good capacity and can chunnel. Of course it is a weak ship in comparison to some of the others.

The best value attack ship is the instrumentality. Will take out many races Tech 10 ships, but costs half the price. The only weakness is that it only carries 80 fighters.

2726 days, 21 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Emerald is a tough one for me. I love the ship, the cargo is awesome and all that, but you don't really build many of those. They are more of a supply ship for your Ruby / Opal squadrons.

2726 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

How about the Saber!

1. Guided Missile
2. Cloak Detector
3. Great mine sweeper

2726 days, 18 hours, 36 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

This topic was brought up about ten years ago. (It was "best" ship though.) It ended up in a vote that spanned quite a few web sites and went on for weeks. I do not recall all the details, but the top ships I do remember.

1. Meteor
2. Gorbie
3. Darkwing
...

I never could understand why these particular ships scored so high. My perspective has always been closer to the conversation here. There was another smaller contest won by LDSF. My personal top 3.

1. Meteor
2. Falcon
3. Cobol

I happen to think that Fireclouds are capable of as much effect on the game as any of these, but it is not the kind of ship that you capture and go to town with. They are really only super in the hands of the Cyborg because they require some preparation, and you have to have a pair at least. By comparison, a single Meteor, Falcon, or Cobol in the hands of any race can significantly improve their effectiveness because they smooth out weak spots.

2726 days, 11 hours, 41 minutes ago

streu

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

> My personal top 3.
> 1. Meteor
> 2. Falcon

While these are decent ships, I wouldn't qualify them as "versatile". In particular, because they make a good second place in most combat, and aren't too good at mine sweeping.

--Stefan

2726 days, 9 hours, 5 minutes ago

jamie

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Some interesting definitions of versatile! I took versatile to mean the ship with the broadest uses to as many races as possible.

I agree that HYP ships are very important to any race and that the falcon is the best one by a long way. However, it's no combat ship, it cannot sweep (except in clouds!), not the most effective freighter, cannot tow. Therefore it doesn't really fit into the versatile description as an individual ship.

Now there's the MBR like the falcon any race can put this ship to a good use, the extra range is great and it can cloak. It is however to weak in combat, one mine hit kills it, planets without starbases can kill it, it burns fuel to cloak.

Also tech ten ships like gorbies, dark wings etc. Are out and out combat ships it would be poor management to use them for anything else, so they really have one use: To take out enemy ships and planets.

When i started this thread i was tied between the resolute and the emerald. Now to separate the two. In a fight they generally tie with the same mass and weapons. The emerald is fantastic for the crystals you build many of these to lay webs, colonise, take out weak enemy ships/planets, torp producion, tow capture. The resolute however, can do all of the above albeit with a smaller hold AND it can cloak indefinitely so apart from hitting the odd mine you can fly to any planet calculate if you can beat the planet then chose to attack or not. Alternatively you can pick and choose your fight by towing a ship you know you can defeat away from the planet to attack it in the warp well. The emerald cannot do this, which is why most people would trade ships/race advantages for the resolute but wouldn't trade for the emerald.

Because of the advanced cloak the resolute has to be considered more versatile than the emerald, any of the races have a use for the resolute. The emerald is simply ordinary in comparison, in a trade which would you choose?

2726 days, 8 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

In a trade, almost all of us would chose the resolute unless we were a cloaking race already. Even in that case, we would not get excited about the emerald. It is also a great ship, don't get me wrong, but what it can do can be replicated by most races with a LDSF + X capital ship.

I take a much broader view of the word versatile. For example, while MCBR do have all the weakness you mentioned, they can have a huge role in combat. Extending the attack range of your large capital ships from 81+3 to 162+3 LY is huge. Towing enemy ships, one by one, to your capital ships also is huge. Laying mines in surprising locations and picking off enemy freighters and weakly defended planets in economic warfare is also big. This ship enables a boat load of fun tactics in warfare.

If you measure versatility by the demand for ship trades, I think you will find that the Emerard over all does rather poorly and #1 MCBR and #2 Falcons rank highly. I'd put resoulutes and fireclouds in a second tier below those 2. Sure they cloak and are great ships but the range of a MCBR and overall usefulness in combat, exploration, economic warfare, economic development, etc can't be beat. Even other cloaking races want one.

2726 days, 7 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I think how you answer this question also depends on how you see the ships used. If, for example, you are imagining that this is the only ship you have or that you can only build one type of ship then Emeralds and Resolutes would be among the top choices.

If you take a broader (and much more realistic view) and view these ships as part of a fleet of other ships, then something like an Emerald would not rate very high.

If you rank ships by demand - the ships that people really want to trade for, Emeralds also don't do well at all. I've never really NEEDED an Emerald or ever asked for one in a trade. I've also never really NEEDED a resolute. As a non-cloaker, any 2 engine cloaking ship would have served and what my neighbor has will do. I have lusted after Falcons, MCBR and Lokis. . . Lokis may not be sexy, and haven't been mentioned, but when you need one, you really need one! If you rank ships by how desperate people are to trade for them, then Lokis might top the list.

2726 days, 7 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

People are confusing "Versatile" with "best / useful / in demand / etc"... everything except "Versatile"

ver·sa·tile

[vur-suh-tl or, especially Brit., -tahyl] Show IPA adjective
1. capable of or adapted for turning easily from one to another of various tasks, fields of endeavor, etc.: a versatile writer.
2. having or capable of many uses: a versatile tool.

A MCBR or Falcon are highly useful ships that can demand a high trading price. But they are NOT versatile. They do one (or a few) things very well (maybe better then any other ship in some cases), but outside of those areas they suffer greatly. For instance, no one is going to want to take a Falcon against anything other then undefended planets and freighters, but a resolute can tangle with most other races mid-sized ships with a fair chance.

Valhalla said a couple posts ago about the emerald "what it can do can be replicated by most races with a LDSF + X capital ship"... so, it takes other races 2 ships to achieve what this 1 ship can do. That, in and of it's self, speaks to the versatility of the Emerald. If it takes multiple ships to do the same job as 1 ship, then that 1 ship is obviously more versatile (and more efficient).

This isn't about which ship is the best. It's not about what ship can demand the highest trade price. It's more a "your entire fleet is 1 ship type. What (non "big ship" tech 10 hull) do you choose?" line of reasoning.

In that train of thought, what about the Ill Wind? Good cargo bays, can sweep as well as a battleship, cheaper then most battleships, longer legs then most battleships.

2726 days, 6 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

"Valhalla said a couple posts ago about the emerald "what it can do can be replicated by most races with a LDSF + X capital ship"... so, it takes other races 2 ships to achieve what this 1 ship can do. That, in and of it's self, speaks to the versatility of the Emerald. If it takes multiple ships to do the same job as 1 ship, then that 1 ship is obviously more versatile (and more efficient)."

Let me be more clear: 1 LDSF (which we all have) + 1 of any number of readily available capital ships from almost any race beats an 2 Emeralds at most of what an Emerald is good at. Cargo holding, straight up toe to toe fighting, etc Emeralds are great but in the real world, what they can do is easily replaced.

Ships do not work in isolation; they work in fleets. Much of the greatness of 2 emeralds can easily be replaced by 2 different ships. In many cases, such as combat and moving resources, my 2 ship teams are much better than 2 Emeralds.

"This isn't about which ship is the best. It's not about what ship can demand the highest trade price."

Jamie started this thread. A few posts up he brought into the discussion how desirable ships are for trading to other races as a logical and key point explaining why he picks resolutes > emeralds. That logic makes good sense to me. If the creator of the thread goes there, I think it is perfectly fine for me to also go there too. :-)

"It's more a "your entire fleet is 1 ship type. What (non "big ship" tech 10 hull) do you choose?" line of reasoning." I'm not sure that this is clear. I can't even find where it says tech 10 ships are off the table.

For the sake of argument I'll give you that point; lets assume that this completely artificial unrealistic game exists where you can only build 1 ship type. I'm still playing the privateers and building MCBRs. No one else has mentioned lokis (small cargo holds) or pop ships so I think things will go very well vs most of the choices mentioned above. I'll need to grab that Gorbie someone mentioned ASAP and avoid the Xtals until the end game. . .

2726 days, 5 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Depends on point of view (which race is the owner of the ship), but LCC can be more versatile than Emerald. They are equally good in battle and Emerald has bigger cargo, but LCC can cloak, hiss and do lizard ground attack. LCC's cargo hold is also big enough to do 150 ly radius minefields.

On the other hand Lizard owned Resolute would be even more kick-ass and versatile ship...

Conclusion which everybody already knew :) Lizards don't have the most versatile or even good fleet, but to compensate that they have versatile special attributes.

OK. I'll stop this babbling :)

2725 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes ago

chas

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

How is the Falcon able to deliver 40 torps?

2725 days, 21 hours, 51 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

120kt of cargo space:

40kt Duranium
40kt Tritanium
40kt Molybdenum
+ the required money to build

if you load this recipe onto a ship with torpedo tubes
and set the torper's friendly code to 'mkt' (make torpedoes)
you have 40 torpedoes next turn.

2725 days, 21 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I have never actually had an Emerald or a Resolute.

I just know from my 3 games played in the late game that the Falcon is the most versatile ship I have used (it is, if anything, better for the fascist than the rebel).

I did have an MBR, but not for very long.

Looking at the ship list, the MBR or Resolute is probably the most versatile.

Probably. One of the things that makes the Falcon so great is that it is so cheap. You can make a useful falcon in almost any SB.

2725 days, 19 hours, 52 minutes ago

chas

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

But the falcon doesn't have torp tubes.

2725 days, 19 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

that's why you transfer it to a torpedo ship. the falcon only brings the money and minerals. :)

2725 days, 18 hours, 14 minutes ago

chas

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

2725 days, 12 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Perhaps and if an agreement were to be made, the stage of the game would need to be considered. Perhaps also the position you are in.

For example. If you are at the mod point of the game and heavily under attack the falcon is not going to be any good for you. In the same sense the Firecloud would only be good if you were looking to fall back. At this point one of the beest ships would probably be a DarkWing, which I don't think has yet been mentioned.

If early in a game then cargo hold is key so something that meets that criteria. At the end point of a game you will generally not be moving cargo around so hold size becomes irrelevant and probably the MCBR to continue the robbing of ships is best.

Just my thoughts, but certainly the most versatile ship changes by race and by stage of game as you will be looking to do diffferent things. Perhaps if trying to average a ship for all situations you would want something that can hold it's own and have a mid sized cargo hold.

2725 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Emerald 1 can fight 2 mine lay 3 mine sweep 4 good cargo 5 tow

Resolute 1 can fight 2 mine lay 3 mine sweep 4 good cargo 5 cloak 6 no use of fuel cloaked 7 tow

Cobol 1 mine lay 2 good cargo 3 makes fuel 4 bio scan 5 tow

Resolute has it.

2725 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Emerald is better then the Resulote.

With the bigger Cargo it can carry supplies to repair a mine hit AND still has enouth room for clans and torps The Resolute can cloak, but a minehit will cripple it and you can only carry clans OR supplies OR torps.

2725 days, 4 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Resolute is better than the Emerald

With the cloaking device it can lay mines and sweep properly, and can choose when and where to fight if it is cruising between enemy planets. Emeralds will be killed by star bases, while resolutes can block the whole traffic around them.

2725 days, 4 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

As was said before a few times, versatile is not the same as best.

Any Battleship/Carrier is better than either if the criteria is who can survive a minehit and still fight.

This thread is about which ship has the most capabilities.

Yes the Emerald can haul more supplies to enable it to repair after a mine hit, but the resolute can cloak which halves its chances of hitting a mine and because it doesn't burn fuel cloaked, it can take it's time navigating minefields undetected.

The Ill Wind is on par with the Emerald but not as versatile as the Resolute.

2725 days, 4 hours, 22 minutes ago

mycroft

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

You have to realize the beauty of the Resolute. The only thing that can stop it is web mines. Any minefield will decay with time and a commander with them can wait 100 turns until yor fleet is so fa away that you can't stop them.

2724 days, 22 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I'll have to go with the Resolute over the Emerald as well, the cloaking is nice, but what ices it for me is the advanced cloaking vs Ion Storms.

Nothing can stop the Resolute's flight plan, aside from webs that is... so in an ironic twist, the Resolutes worst nightmare is a fully stocked Emerald :)

2724 days, 21 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

From a Bird Man player's perspective, though...The Resolute has a major flaw - Dark Wings. Unlike every other race in the game, the Birds have a single method tied to a single ship for removing enemies. Sure, Resolutes are mine layers and sweepers, and can double as a freighter, etc. Even a Swifty has uses. But no other ship can reliably claim and hold territory. You can win without those other things. You can not succeed without lots of Dark Wings. It's a very linear strategy.

What always seems to happen is that I get my Econ going and I pop out one or two Resolutes on a starbase before I have the tech to be in permanent Dark Wing build mode because I know that my strength is a direct result of my Dark Wing count by ship limit time. Most of the price difference between the two comes from torpedo tubes. In particular, the Moly cost is almost the same. In other words, there is a big disincentive to building Resolutes. After the ship limit it is a bit better (4 PBPs vs. 10). But I usually go for Swifties at 1 PBP each and control of the queue.

Btw, the same thing happens when I play the Feds. I almost never build Diplomacies even though they are an amazing design. Just build Missouris for almost the same cost and much more strength. Then Kittyhawks after the limit for much more firepower.

2724 days, 20 hours, 55 minutes ago

mycroft

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

As far as strategy goes, I never send a dark wing without resolute support. Resolutes have massive fuel tanks and can traverse a lot more ground then a DW before refuel.

Besides, you don't have to kill your enemy to win. You can just drain all his fuel off any non-sb planet so his ships can't chase you.

2724 days, 9 hours, 43 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Guys, think of a game where you are only allowed to build one ship. You would need a multipurpose ship, a versatile ship.

Would you really choose a Falcon, a Firecloud or a Cobol? I would say no.

It will depend on your race but I guess it will end with Resolutes (Cloaker races for Super Spy, Ground Attack and pillage) and Emeralds (most others), maybe the Priv will still build his MCBR and if I would play Borg I would choose the Ani as I do not need to bring much clans.

I would go for the Emerald as it is the ONLY ship that has enough cargo to build your eco if you are not allowed to have freighters . The Resolute may cloak and is very useful in tow kills and scouting, but you cannot build an empire with 290kt cargo. It’s that simple. Dose not matter for what you use the Cargo, with the emerald you have better and more options.

I would be looking forward to the fictional game Valhalla mentioned above. While his MCBR fleet will bring 120 clans to that 7mio native planet to get some more cash, I bring 510 clans. My Eco would run much better, I could make more torps, lay bigger minefields, sweep better, fight better. It would be similar If I fight a Birds Resolute fleet in such a fictional game or a Lizard LCC.

In non-fictional setup, I would still go for the Emerald. The more cargo you have, the more useful things you can store, the more flexible you are. For any situation you will find something good in your Cargo. Load 275 supplies (to repair 1 minehit) 50 torps to lay mines and fight AND 185 clans. Or load 10 Torps to fight and 500 clans to kick start that 5mio Bovi planet Build 170 torps in space on that enemy planet you just captured. Move minerals to build a base where no LDSF is. Strip 510moly of the planet you cannot protect (that’s a joke as Crystallines can protect all planets J )

2724 days, 7 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Those are good points in favor for Emerald spacesquad. However if Resolute sneaks into your HW and destroys it, it can slightly hamper your economy. :) No more clans to carry with your emerald.

However big cargo brings a lot more options to Emerald, so I call it a tie.

2724 days, 7 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

If a Resolute sneaks onto my HW, it will...ah.. wait. what?? where is the fuel... hit a webmine :)
The funny thing is, that the Crystalline who already has the Emerald, desires a Resoulte most.

2724 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Well, if you want to put this strange game to a test, with the 11 different races, only 1 ship type is allowed per race, I'd be willing to try it as the Priv.

Since this weird game is about one type of ship and not diplomacy, I think we would need some sort of restriction on ship trades and alies. The Host may not be able to restrict ship types so we will need to self police and agree at the start that if anyone "accidentily" builds more than one ship type they must recycle it the next turn or be race killed. Also it would be nice if the game didn't drag on forever - how about most planets by turn 70? That provides more than enough time for you to make a point but isn't open ended.

2724 days, 6 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Great valhalla!! That game would be sooo wired i have to join it! :) Do you think we can find 9 other nut players that would join a game where they are only allowed to buid 1 type of ship hull?? I guess self police will work fine, its a fun/test game. If i play X-tal i can agree to no trades (i hope i still can get some other ships) but maybe the other races want to trade. Hehe, there will be only 11 ships types in the universe, I love it!

2724 days, 6 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I'll probably join as the federation.

The nebula is one of the best medium ships in the game with a good armament, amazing cargo hull, and not to mention a good fuel tank. Plus, ALL non Capital ships listed on this forum will be beaten by this guy.

2724 days, 5 hours, 59 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I think the Merlin is the Empires most versatile ship.

2724 days, 5 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

What is the ultimate ship???

Lets start a list and see if there is interest. Sign below if you are willing to step up and play an odd game where each race can only build 1 type of ship - and single ship your race can produce from tech 1 to tech 10. This ain't a diplomatic game, there will be no ship trades and no alies. No starting ships. Otherwise vanilla settings. Anyone that gets caught cheating gets race killed and can go home with their tails between their legs and egg on their face. Finish in the top 5 and make a point; finish in first and your ship under your command is the best.

I'd prefer no replacements so that all players agree at the start to the conditions.

The winner is the person with the most planets at turn 70.

spacesquad: Xtals

valhalla: Priv

ace-pilot275: Feds

jm - are you signing up?

Who else wants to backup their ideas with action?

2724 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Not sure.

EE is so hard.

Merlin or Carrier?

I think it can't by the Frigate, despite the fact that torps are so versatile. The Frigate is just too terrible.

2724 days, 5 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

There is the Gorbie

2724 days, 5 hours, 44 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Don´t use the Gorbie, you will be cannon fodder for the MBR and then i have to deal with it ;)

2724 days, 5 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

In this scenario, everything that isn't a torp ship, a pop ship, or a Loki is fodder for an MBR.

The problem is the SSF is one of the worst ships in the game.

2724 days, 5 hours, 29 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Maybe an SSC or SSD rush would work. Together with Dark sense it might be OK. But a SSD is dangerous to build, it could come back to your HW.....

2724 days, 5 hours, 25 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

SSD is obviously bad, only 80 cargo and a Carrier would already be the strongest ship discussed.

A Carrier is better, with a cargo of 180 it is almost acceptable.

Remember the EE bonus of 5 fighters per SB. EE would maybe have the goal of going around and building SB everywhere.

It doesn't seem like most of these ships would easily defeat a defended SB.

2724 days, 5 hours, 10 minutes ago

zelrik

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I can't think of any ship that does it all in this game, which is a good thing.

I would say that the defensive races have the most versatile ships:

- Emerald: Large fuel tank/cargo, can be used as a freighter, a warship or as a minelayer. Lay webmines (when owned by xtals at it should). Fails against bigger ships and medium carriers, No cloaking. Can have lots of good beams to sweep.

- Annihilation: Self repair, beam up leftovers from destroyed ships, big fuel tank, very decent cargo, biggest torpedo ship that's out there. Fails as a freighter due to its mass, No cloaking. Can have lots of good beams to sweep.

- Firecloud(s): This ship is a freighter, a minelayer and can sweep mines. That ship truly shines when you have more than 2 of them though: can go anywhere on the map within one turn. Chunnel enables very advanced strategies. Most wanted ship in the game.

- MBR, I kinda hesitate to put it there because it s very fragile. However, double speed AND cloak is a big deal, that means huge economic and war advantage. Can tow freighters/carriers around, lay mines, transport fuel and has a reasonable cargo. Can cloak and rob (if owned by priv). If not owned by privateer, it can tow away enemy ships to wreck the enemy's combos/capture small ships. Second most wanted ship in the game.

2724 days, 5 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Come now. The top most versatile ships, according to most posts above, are the Emerald and the Resolute (which is the top ship, a damn good choice, but is oddly still available).

Is the conversation already changing now that we have introduced reality to it? If your entire choice is based on not picking a ship that the Priv might take and your strategy is to get other races to not take ships that you don't want the priv to have, then you are kind of making my point before we even get started. . . The priv are just one of 11 races with a MCBR. According the consensus this is not a very versatile ship - it can't fight well and it can't hold much. Why start to worry now about 1 of 11 races? No one was worried before. . .

2724 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes ago

zelrik

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

@capnkill "Meh, I don't find that the Firecloud can do well in most fights. That's the big drawback to the Firecloud, it really suffers vs most medium ships. Obviously its chunneling ability is absolutely amazing, but it is not a versatile ship. It can do one thing and that's about it. "

Read above, the firecloud is a great freighter (which makes it also a great minelayer), also don't underestimate its 6 beams. Advanced chunneling is very powerful also.

2724 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

If I were to join this scenario, I would join as Borg with a FireCloud.

I have 3 active games at the moment, so I won't.

I don't see how EE has any good options in this scenario.

2724 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Ooh great! I want to be the Privateers with all their advantages and none if their disadvantages!

I predict a complete blowout in favor of the Privateer player.

2724 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

2724 days, 4 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Forum needs a delay requirement between posts.

2724 days, 4 hours, 16 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Yes.

Only one ship (with all race advantages), isn't what I think of when I think of most versatile ship.

The Falcon is a great ship... amazing, but probably is not the best 'only one ship'.

Because of the priv, no non-torp ship would ever be picked.

When I think of versatility, I think of

"I am going to build a ship, not sure what I face/need, what ship do I build?" or "What ship do I want to trade from XX"

Yes, you are going to want some of your capital ships, some of your freighters. But can a ship serve as a freighter? Than you can cut some freighters for it (watch, the Borg and the EE always build freighters early, especially the EE has no other good transporter). Can a ship serve as defense and offense? Than you build it early.

I know when I was the Rebels, I built falcons if I didn't know what else to build (Actually, the Rebels have good versatility as the Tranquility is versatile too).

I know as the Fascist, I considered the falcons as some of my best ships. Others were the 'pop' ships, which I would never build in a *build one ship* scenario (they are very versatile in combat, terrible in exploration/etc).

As EE I built probes a lot. Not because they were incredibly good for exploration/combat/defense, but because they were cheap and useful for intelligence. I actually think this is the EE problem, bad defense and not very versatile ships (Gorby and SSD are two of the best offensive ships in the game.... ).

2724 days, 4 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

i'm in: lizard/lizard

(muahahaha)

2724 days, 3 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

what about the SSCarrier and the SSCruiser? Both are better COMBAT ships than the SSD (at best it is a excellent utility ship) with 6/4 and 8/4. Besides the SSCarrier is critical for fighter transfers for the EE.

2724 days, 3 hours, 8 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The Carrier is probably what I would go for (best cargo, relatively cheap, relatively strong). But, due to the priv MBR, it is a sitting duck.

Of course, even with the full ship list the EE is pretty much a sitting duck to the Priv (especially with the recent host change).

2724 days, 2 hours, 56 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

There is no need to fill all race slots. And i would say we can have double races as well. Lets just try that nut setup and play for some turns. If it is getting boring after 20 turns we can end it and discuss it out ;-)

http://planets.nu/games/35212
heres the game.

2724 days, 2 hours, 40 minutes ago

star72066

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Most versatile to it's own race - The LCC. No ship can do more for it's own race than the LCC. It is simply the all-around King of Versatile.

Most versatile to any race - MCBR . The Resolute may be nice, but it won't do what an MBR will do for any other empire. Just applying gravatronics to any ship in your fleet, is about as versatile as it gets.

2724 days, 2 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

This nut setup wont answer the question completely. For example LCC can hiss, but it wont be any use unless you overtax and overtaxing requires lots of clans and large freighter can bring lots of clans. Therefore some ships are more versatile when there are other ships in game. I think crystals (and maybe privateers) are going to be strong in this game because their strongest weapon is not a ship, but rather webmines (and robbing).

2724 days, 1 hours, 43 minutes ago

dragondejhi

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

A Lizard would never fear the Pirates if it was only MCBR vs. LCC's. Even if this set-up gives the Pirates a huge advantage. With that said, the Crystals will run away with the game. In order to get a well rounded ship, the one thing you have to give up is web sweeping power. The Crystals can lay webs at will, and those webs will be just slightly chipped away each turn.

There are other races that are just doomed. But, I wouldn't write the Borgs out. The FCC is crappy in a fight, but if they develop the chunneling wolf-pack theory, I think they become stronger because they will never have to face strong ships.

This game would have no basis in any argument.... but it could be fun ;-)

2724 days, 1 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The Liz and Crystals may not lose any ships to the Privs, but they can't prevent the other races from getting anal raped. The speed at which the Privs can dismantle an enemy and take their planets is all that matters.

2724 days, 1 hours, 23 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Spacesquad

"There is no need to fill all race slots. And i would say we can have double races as well. Lets just try that nut setup and play for some turns. If it is getting boring after 20 turns we can end it and discuss it out ;-)"

Can we please stick to the original setup and conditions? I hate open ended games with no clear victory conditions and players playing multiple races just isn't cool and doesn't test the one race with one ship idea that this thread is all about.

This games ends at turn 70 - I'm OK with it ending sooner if a majority vote to end it. I agree that if we can't fill all race slots then we can run it with those that are filled.

Assuming you are OK with that, I've signed up.

2724 days, 1 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I will join your nutty game and build nothing but ill-winds. Prepare to die.
Only if captured ships can't be used would I join. Rob em' and leave them fuel-less drifting otherwise there's no point to the silliness.

Seriously, the firecloud class cruiser. Once you are a master, the impossible can happen.

2724 days, 0 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I´m fine with whatever you want to make it the crazyest game ever :)
My main point is to show you that Cargo is more versatile than cloak. I wonder why noone picks the birds so far..

As borg, i would try the Ani, is expensive, but once you have one and can keep it away from the priv, you rule the cluster.

2724 days, 0 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I'm thinking I would take a swing at this game with the Fascist and the Ill Wind.

2724 days, 0 hours, 48 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Gah! Ok Chaos1357, you do that. I'm sure you'll come out very well placed.
Maybe we can get an experienced borg in to take on the firecloud mantle. I would do in a heartbeat were I not already playing way too many borg games (which means >1 in point of fact). If you can find no one at all, send me a message and I'll take it up.

I agree spacequad, cargo is very relevant.

2724 days, 0 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I'll have a pop in this mad cap game if you need a couple more. I normally play robots, but won't be doing that with only one ship allowed.

Is trading be allowed in this game? Also, what happens with robbing and captured ships? That will mena you will not be playing just the one ship type?

2723 days, 23 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I think there is a big difference between:

A - The most versatile ship in the game

B - The best ship in the game if you were forced to just use 1 ship.

It may sound the same, but I do not think it is the same.

For the game you guys created it makes a big difference as to what ship your opponent picks.

I would say though that the Emerald woudl hold the edge, because it can be a freighter a so so medium combat ship, but most importantly, web mines.

2723 days, 22 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

actually dungeonmaster, you take the fascists and ill winds...

I had forgotten that no one claimed the birds and resolutes. I'll be that no one and take them myself.

2723 days, 22 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

@ bigburtie - these are the rules: Each race can only build 1 type of ship. Any single ship your race can produce from tech 1 to tech 10. This ain't a diplomatic game, there will be no ship trades and no alies. No starting ships (I got a "free" mdsf too and am set to RECYCLED it since mdsf will not be my choice). Otherwise vanilla settings. Anyone that gets caught cheating gets race killed and can go home with their tails between their legs and egg on their face. Finish in the top 5 and make a point; finish in first and your ship under your command is "the best". No excuses, etc

I'd prefer no replacements and that all players agree at the start to the conditions.

The winner is the person with the most planets at turn 70. Or a majority vote to end.

***********

Yes, ones ship choices ALWAYS depends on ones opponents choices. You don't even have to post here and tell us what your choice will be - you just have to stick with building that one ship type. This is not a who can be the best diplomat game so no alies or ship trades. I think a limited number of non aggression packs would be OK.

Your "best" ship may also depend on who is near you but you won't know that. . . This ain't supposed to be easy. I personally hope the Xtals and Fasc and birds are no where near me. . . We ALL have weaknesses. . . That is the point!

-V-

2723 days, 22 hours, 26 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Dungeonmaster - of course captured ships can be used.

All this sillyness is about which ship is the most versatile. Capturing other ships is one of the things that makes a ship versatile.

2723 days, 22 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Valhalla - I'm not sure tech 9 and 10 hull types should be allowed. I mean, do you really want people claiming the Biocide or Gorbie are the most versatile ships? I mean, they can move fair sized cargo and beat anything in the game in combat, and sweep mines like crazy, but I think that they sorta violate the spirit of the idea.

As for joining the game.. do i need an invite, or where can I join? I was serious about taking the Birds.

2723 days, 22 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Capturing a ship is primarily a product of being of the Priv or XStal race.

In such a game, these are huge race advantages, as you get a lot of other peoples versatility and not just your own.

Why is trading not allowed? This even further takes away the Priv/XStal weakness (no cloning). People can trade and not be allies.

Not sure what this will prove but that XStal and Priv are best with these conditions.

2723 days, 22 hours, 11 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

What about The fed's? They have a decent ship in the nebula. more cargo than a MDSF combined with Super-fit will solve any mine problems (especially webs) and also them to stay relevant as the game progresses.

2723 days, 22 hours, 9 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I think trade value is part of the measure used in versatility and should therefor be allowed. Plus it makes surprise choices possible. Bots can choose Automa IFF they have a chance to procure a Conol or Emerald. Etc.

2723 days, 22 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

This game is to find the one most versatile ship - PERIOD. If you think that ship is a tech 10 hull, I see no reason why you can't build your choice and test it out vs everyone else. Their fuel hold is tiny but Darkwings, for example, are a legit option and they can take out a HW. . . If you want to build cubes or gorbies or whatever, do it. If you want to build only scouts, or build only falcons, do it. It is your choice. You don't even have to tell us what you are building. The point is to pick a ship and put your money where your mouth is. Since almost all races have abilities associated with ships (hiss and ground assult, rga, pilliage, rob, web mines, free fighters for ee, massive mines for bots, etc etc etc) and since the entire point of this thread is versatility, there are no restrictions on how you use and profit from your single ship type. However, you can not trade ships.

This is about you defending your best ship idea - not about who can be the best diplomat or horse trader. For the same reason, this is not an alliance game. It is about your ship choice and how versatile it is under your command. That is it - no excuses - no alies to prop you up. Just you, your choice and your ability to show us all how good your choice is under your command.

Interestingly, the discussion has already changed a lot since we introduced the idea of actually testing this in a real game.

Want to put your money where your mouth is: Go here:

The game is here: http://planets.nu/games/35212

2723 days, 21 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

You shouldn't be able trade ships.

Crystals' Emerald is a great ship, but if the Crystal is given the option of a Resolute, then OBVIOUSLY they would take that.

And a Nebula vs webs is toast. If the Crystal has a good bovi on hand, the Emeralds would completely drown the Nebula, just not enough beams IMO.

Also I feel as if an Emerald would do a pretty good job in a head to head fight if it actually came down to that.

Really the best ship in a 1 ship per race game IMO is the MBR.

You can colonize twice as fast as anyone else.

You can steal any ship the other races select, because lets face it, no one is going to choose the Loki or a Glory device as the 1 ship they get to use.

Obviously the MBR would just avoid the webs and colonize else where. But you get enough MBRs and BR5s together and you can have a pretty mean sweeping party, just make sure you build these ships with no torps.

2723 days, 21 hours, 57 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Daniel,

If we allowed trade value, how would we keep the game to testing the original idea of best ship vs who is the best horse trader? Also, if I trade a MCBR to you and you win, can we say that your ship choice of say a Gorbie was the best if you cloned and towed your gorbies 162 ly to surprise kill enemy starbases?

I do agree with your point that trade value is a type of versatility. I'm less certain on how to not contaminate the experiment by having trades become the most important aspect of the game.

2723 days, 21 hours, 52 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

As capnkill noted, Xtals with an LCC, MCBR, resolute or ANY cloaking mine layer radically changes the game into something else. . .

So does giving the lizards a Gorbie. . .

So does. . . many other combinations. The game then becomes who is the best horse trader.

In science, when we want to test something, we hold all the other variables constant. Ship trades does the opposite.

I do concede that trade value is a part of versatility and this setup would not explore that one aspect of versatility.

2723 days, 21 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

What's taken or is it first come first served??

Will join straingt away once I know

2723 days, 21 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Scroll up to see what is taken. . . but at this point, I'd say just join as only 2 people have put their money where there mouth is. I think the Priv are strong, but I also think there are many other good choices out there.

2723 days, 21 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Val, if the capture races can use their captured ships then we're not dealing with testing a single most all-around ship any longer. We're looking at a casual slaughter. If they're just allowed to disable the enemy ships and not actually USE them then the silly game may have a point.
Emeralds + MBR do not test anything other than the fact that crystals that move fast and cloak are pretty dangerous and we knew that at outset.
Likewise MBR + rush are bad news, but we knew that.
Can you win with just MBR, emerald alone?

2723 days, 21 hours, 15 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

OK, I'm taking the robots. A difficult race as I'm going to lose one special ability or another............

However, the races I would have chosen have gone. Good luck :-)

2723 days, 21 hours, 7 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

IMO this experiment is silly anyway, but trading ships just nullifies the entire thing.

I mean the Crystal can say... YEY! Emerald is my best ship! Then turn one is offered a Resolute. Then they never build another Emerald. Is that saying that he Emerald is the victor because of its versatility?

Nope!

Robots are an interesting choice, i would have to assume teh Cats paw is the ship of choice, since that is the ONLY torp layer.

With that said, it does have good cargo, and you can certainly suffucate an opponent with mine fields.

I don't know, I think this experiment is only useful if you turn off all race specific abilities, then its truly ship vs ship.

Privy can't rob.
No web mines
No 4x Mine Layer
etc.. etc..

IF you can do that, then its truly a 100% ship vs ship battle, and then you see how it goes.

2723 days, 21 hours, 3 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

capnkill

Everyone will just build their largest ship then surely?? I'm undecided which it will be with the robots. As I said, other races gone already. Was very tempted with the feds though....

Forum up for those in game: http://planets.nu/discussion/one-ship-to-rule-them-all

Perhaps just use it to post if actually playing?

2723 days, 20 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Until the threat of an actual game, no one else in this thread seemed to think that the MCBR was an especially versatile ship. Small cargo hold, not very good in straightt up combat, etc etc etc. All valid points. Now, with the threat of reality, all the sudden the tune has changed.

Of course capture races can use captured ships - that is how they fight. No one expects the Liz to build LCC and NOT ground assult - that is how they fight. No one expects them to go toe to toe vs the bots or any other big ship race. We don't expect the rebels not to use RGA or Klingons not to pillage or bots not to lay mines. My point is that MCBR are good in combat, as are LCCs - just not in the boring straight up ship vs ship way that carrier races fight. Not allowing each race to pick a ship and fight as best it can within its abilities misses the point. Its like saying, OK you can build ill winds but you can not put any beam weapons on them. I'm sorry Lizards, no ground assult or hiss for you. Etc We are testing versatility - pick one hull type and go for it.

As for capturing ships Thin Lizy built a special purpose T-Rex specifically to capture some of my fleet a few games back. And in our recent game together you might remember that I purpose build fireclouds to capture some lovely Rebel Falcons which I then cloned. Capturing ships is alive and well for all players. Unlike the rest of you, the Xtals and Priv will NOT be cloning the heck out of their captured ships. . .

So the question is, can we win with just MCBR BUILDS alone, or Emerald BUILDS alone? Or at least finish well? How each commander uses his or her limited tool set is up the him.her.

2723 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

That's fine but then the winner shouldn't be dubbed the most versatile ship, because it is highly dependent on the race ability.

Maybe the most versatile ship / race ability combo

2723 days, 20 hours, 49 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Then I think you have to allow trades, as they are also part of the game.

You can't really 'deny' them anyways.. two players can just sort of make an agreement to leave ships without fuel....

2723 days, 20 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The goal is to get 80 planets. If you can't rob then you can use MBRs to tow big carriers away... with 2 MBRs you can tow a carrier 320 lyrs away from where it was supposed to go, you can take it out of the equation all together.

Unless that ship has TWarps its going to have a hard time getting back into the action. Heck you can tow a big carrier into someone elses back yard, let them duel it out while you continue to speed your way to 80 planets.

ALl you care about is 80 planets. Who can get there first. MBRs have a huge advantage. You don't need to rob, you can just break apart fleets and cause mass chaos. Yes you'll lose lots of MBrs, but thast ok, cause you should be building them equally fast to replace them.

Plus no one will select a big capitol ship for the most part as their ship, your going to have a hard time building enough to sustain any type of economy. Maybe you can build a steady stream of Vickies, not sure, hard to say, but for the most part you are in trouble.

I think maybe the DKwing in this scenario might have the edge. They are cheap enough, and they can certainly take out a HW by themselves in such a game and Ion storms do't bother them.

But for the people that just say, build a gorbie!! well good luck with that. By the time you build 2 Gorbies I'll have 30 planets.

2723 days, 20 hours, 47 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

"That's fine but then the winner shouldn't be dubbed the most versatile ship, because it is highly dependent on the race ability.
Maybe the most versatile ship / race ability combo"

That makes sense.

As for combat w/o race abilities, the law of tonnage applies here, he who has the most wins. None of the cloaking or capturing races fight this way unless they are backed into a corner. Direct toe to toe combat only measures on part of combat and combat itself is only one part of versatility.

2723 days, 20 hours, 41 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Game joined, Birds.

2723 days, 20 hours, 38 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

OK but you cant cloak. :-P

2723 days, 20 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

" You can't really 'deny' them anyways.. two players can just sort of make an agreement to leave ships without fuel.... "

Turns are view-able at the end of the game. If someone wants to embarrass themselves by cheating they can. . . but we will all see it.

2723 days, 20 hours, 27 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Valhalla

On the forum:

http://planets.nu/discussion/one-ship-to-rule-them-all

You need to see it.

2723 days, 19 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I just don't see how the Lizards can lose this type of game.

They can probably pump out MK7 LCCs for the duration of the game, and no one will have enough cargo capacity to defend a ground attack invasion.

Heck Lizards could almost even go with T-Rexes as the ship of choice and probably be able to pump one out per turn.... 190 cargo isn't too bad.

Although the ground attack option is just so much more devastating and pretty much unstoppable in this type of scenario.

2723 days, 19 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

true, dem bättleship uses about as much cash as dem cruiser and two will destroy any bäse.
but super expensive in mineräls.

do you want to pläy dem? i would leave the seat to you..

----
... dem seat, sorry

2723 days, 19 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I wish I had the time, but right now its taking me about 5 to 6 hours for my current Borg game and well, that's enough I think for me for the time being :)

2723 days, 19 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

LCC with hiss and ground assault in Thin Lizzy's hands will be a serious threat in this silly best ship/race combo game. We can hope but there is no way he will pick the T-Rex.

2723 days, 17 hours, 42 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Sorry guys, no way I'm joining a "one ship" game where pirates and crystals get to use "any ship they can capture". Have fun!

2723 days, 9 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Have you lost your strategy guide over the weekend?

Do you really think Crystals or Pirates will win just because they can capture ships?? I can´t believe it.

In a universe were the strongest ship may be a Lizard owned LCC, a Resolute or an Emerald, all 3 more or less save from robbing, you care about the Privateers? He can rob what he wants, the hardest nut to crack in this experimental game will still be a Lizard Starbase or a Borg planet. There can be 20 MBRs in orbit, the Starbase don´t care. Lizards, Klingon and Birds will not be robbed if they choose cloakers. A Cats Paw, Nebula, Tranquillity or an Ill Wind if Klingon choose it, will protect the planets with mines very well.

The benefit a Privateer has is speed, cloak and a mineral cheap ship. But the lack of cargo limits his expansion. Valhalla thinks he can handle it and will prove me wrong.

The aim is to find a ship that is cheap in minerals, strong in fights, has a big cargo, huge fuel tank, special missions (cloak) and allows you to use most of your race advantages. To say it short: a versatile ship.

I still think my Emerald can make it, the risks I see are:

Fed: With his cash and refit bonus he can build many hulls and will have the ammo for them Nebula

Lizard: If he can setup his eco with 290kt cargo, hiss and ground attack he will win the game LCC

Bird: 290kt will be to less as he lacks the Lizard eco bonus, Hard work for Chaos I’m looking how the Resolute performs

Klingon: The only one who can kill Borg bases in the game not sure if he need the Ill wind or is saver with a cloaker

Priv: MBR is cheap and fast, but 120kt will not work for a good Eco in my eyes.

Borg: If he can colonize a planet with natives he will have it to the end (Firecloud) If he goes for the Ani he will have only a few ships and is very slow.

Empire: I don´t know if he can survive without mines. A (SSC) may work, but if the Priv is near he is dead.

Robot: Cat´s Paw will secure his area, but he cannot attack any enemy planet. With a base ships its same as Empire but more expensive in Minerals

Rebel: Tranquillity may work, with patience and RGA he could attack

Colonial: Hard to say, many special ships, this is a fleet race. Maybe the Cobol or Tranquillity could work

2723 days, 8 hours, 14 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I think there are a lot of good choices - exactly as written above. MCBR is one of them but there are many others and races that I fear and hope are no where near me at the start. All race/ship combos have weaknesses.

2723 days, 8 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

No I haven't lost my strategic instinct and handicapping every race except the crystals and pirates to 1 ship is a lame game. Have you strayed into intellectual dishonesty Spacesquad?

You don't NEED to kill every borg or lizard starbase and they will be many fewer and much later into the game. There are plenty of normal planets. You're an experienced player and you KNOW this to be true.

I fully believe that crystal emeralds or pirate MBR + captured ships are much more versatile and powerful than any 1 ship race. It's absurd to think differently. 1 option vs many options. Emperor goes all SSD, robot automa, rebel rush even just illwinds, whatever and you're laughing your asses off, proving nothing.

I think if you want to make the silly game even somewhat representative it should in fact be a 1 ship fight, if your chosen ship can't take bases can't fight its way out of a paper bag, then that's a choice you made and the ability to augment your forces does not in any way represent the inherent ability of the ship.

2723 days, 7 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

With Cobol or Tranquility Colonial can't use fighter building or mine sweeping. No racial bonuses for colonial with those ships! Nebula, LCC, Resolute and so on can do what those ships can and even more (I think fuel is not the biggest issue in this game). I think colonial is the only race that should consider biggest battleship which would be Virgo. Cargo is 290 and it's relatively cheap. It can also sweep mines like hell and wouldn't have to fear in battle. Hard part would be getting economy growing and getting enough planets. Good thing is that Colonial doesn't need that much cash after tech levels are high enough because Virgo is cheap and fighters are free.

2723 days, 7 hours, 40 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Liz fight by ground assault

Priv fight by rob

Xtals fight by web mines . . .

etc.

It has always been thus.

The thread was already corrected above to be "the best race+ship" combo for versatility. Fighting is just one aspect of versatility.

If someone wants to sit down and program a game where no races have racial advantages and all races have access to the full ship list, we could go at this a different, and perhaps better, way. Until that happens, this is what we have with existing tools. Limiting the two capture races abilities, but not the abilities of other races, doesn't make sense unless the goal is to neutralize the opposition politically before the game even starts.

Personally I'm worried about several of the other races. Lets take my fav. race, the Liz, as example. A LCC holds approximately 3x the cargo I do and the Liz have a 30:1 ground assult bonus. . . that results in a per ship bonus of NINETY times in ground combat vs the Priv. That is a recipe for a serious Starbase capture smack down if Thin is anywhere near me. I can go on with other examples. . .

2723 days, 7 hours, 39 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

juuso I think you can almost consider cobol fuel scoop to be a racial advantage (except it can be traded)

I also think people are under estimating how hard it will be to maintain a decent economy just to keep one producing starbase making TW engined decent ship produced every turn.

Let alone consider how many Warp7 or higher Virgos you could produce (and then you need T+M for fighters)

For me reading the discusison this is an interesting/fun experiment but not really conclusive against the original question of most versatile ship which was something considered in isolation to a game environment, single ship, race ability etc.

My vote= if Valhalla is not near the crystals/robots he will have his needed planet count quite easily... we shall see.

2723 days, 7 hours, 34 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

i find this game very very interesting - because it really brings out the versatility of the chosen ship,
and all players will be absolute experts about this one at the end of the game.

btw. the longer i think about it, the more interesting i find the idea of a hoard of firecloud classes
zipzapping about, and maybe building instant killer-bases. but i unfortunately have chosen my
weapon and can't change anymore.

------------
i agree with halion, that this is rather a creativity training than a real test.

2723 days, 7 hours, 23 minutes ago

turssi

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Joined as Fascists after Dungeonmaster chickened out!

2723 days, 7 hours, 21 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

lol

2723 days, 7 hours, 1 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Only 3 slots left:

Feds

Colonies

Step up into the experiment and join the silliness.

-V-

2723 days, 6 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I am too easily goaded into retarded scenarios with no chance of victory.
Prepare to die bastards under the banner of the federation of planets using 1 stupid ship against many in a hopeless and futile fight.

2723 days, 6 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Welcome to the stupidity!

2723 days, 5 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

100% agreed, this is a nut retarded crazy scenario, but its far away from a hopeless fight.
A fully equiped MBR needs 377, lets see if Valhalla can organise it with his 120 cargo. Or maybe he will gamble and try to hold the most planets untill turn 70 (thats the Victory condition)

We will see. I will start the game tomorrow as I don´t think we will find any player who is crazy enough to join as EE or Colonial. ...or... wait... Halion!! Don´t tell me you want to miss that game and your chance to show the word that the most usefull EE ship is the LSDF :)

2723 days, 5 hours, 55 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The empire should build probes and colonize 80 planets where no one else is and end the game proving the probe's absolute dominance.

2723 days, 5 hours, 45 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Perhaps to eliminate the race advantage from the ship versatility question everyone could play the same race?

2723 days, 5 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

actually Dungeonmaster called it. I had been secretly considering either representing the much maligned EE and going with a shock move of probe!

or the less outrageous colonies with the cobol..

I will ponder more before i decide whether to get involved.

Additionally i do believe this will be a very resource constrained game and fuel will be an issue due to very few developed planets. so a cobol will be a good choice... or lots of probe jumping around taking up all the surface fuel....... hmmm i might have persuded myself!!

2723 days, 5 hours, 30 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Arrgg dang it you sucked me in!

As much as i wanted to go for the Probe I have gone for colonies.. but shhhh i won't tell what ship... hmm i hope my previous posts didnt give it away ;)

I hope someone will take the EE gambit and try the probe trick.. it could be interesting. also nice to fill the last spot too.

2723 days, 4 hours, 19 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I would go for Super Star Carrier, but I guess I don't have the time. After some point this game can become also boring with only one ship type. On the other hand Empire could be crushed quite fast :)

2723 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

empire midsizers are very underestimated, if you ask me... very tough guys with a lot of beams

2723 days, 3 hours, 32 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

@Jamie, i do have to apologies that we hijacked your post, i was not aware it will end this way.

@All others, this is the last chance to be part in the most silly game played here so far. If you join now, you may tell your grandson that way back in 2012 you conquered the cluster with just 1 ship (type)

2723 days, 3 hours, 6 minutes ago

nyalaana

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I was the second to answer this thread. The EE has not been taken yet... I will go for it.
A word about myself. I am not an expert player. I have finished about 3 games so far in my life. I have played several games via different computer players. i have played a long game with a star trek only setting races ( federation, jem hadar, romulans, klingons, ferengi, borg, tholians, species 8472, cardassians , bajorans and breen) the game was masterd by Q and it was very add on heavy to reflect different races, which in my eyes it did perfectly. I really enjoyed that game.( http://home.arcor.de/erik_pollmann/st/startrek.htm ).

I cannot choose the probe, with 20 cargo i cant do anything... I would be stuck with 1 base for the rest of the game. and i could not defend myself. how to build up a starbase on another planet? i would need 10 turns to get 100 clans on another planet then it just takes too long. Building starbases would just be too slow compared to all other playes that have cargo... this would render me totally helpless against attacks from other players because my probes would not be able to defend anything at all and there would hardly be population on my planets and starbases would take too long to build. Other players could take my planets with clansdropping only...
and hopping all planets in the game just to rob off surface neutronium is too much an " I am here to spoil everything" that there will be much fun for me in the game.

We all start with 1 medium deep space freighter, i suppose we are allowed to keep it?
We can choose a midsized ship. This means a ship with hulltech below 8? Are we allowed a merlin and a neutronic refinery ship?
So if I do not choose a torpedo ship, i will not be able to lay minefields?
I see 0 allies, so i cant have a minefield layed by a friendly player to protect me from cloakers?

How much is negotiating with neighbours allowed?

What happens if we capture ships, can we use them along? Or are only privs and rcystals allowed to use captured ships?

2723 days, 2 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Thanks for joining, we can start the game now.
have a lookhere regarding the rules.
You have recylce the MDSF as we will have only 1 ship hull. You can choose what you want, but it has to be 1 hull throu the entire game. No Merlin, no NRS.
In this post here there are some suggestion what EE could do, but you will have a hard time for sure....

2723 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Keep the MDSF guys, it's already wacko unbalanced that you 2 can capture any ship and use it.

2723 days, 2 hours, 50 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

...unless you choose to play with a merlin

2723 days, 2 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

You know the EE might not be so bad in this type of game... the SBs will be hard to take down since they'll all have 60 fighters sooner or later.

You could roll out with the SSC, but then you have no defense vs Privy what so ever... can the EE survive this game without the Frigate?! I don't see how it can be done.

2723 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes ago

nyalaana

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

my starbases will be a cake to take down, because there will hardly be clans on the base. just take the base intact with clansdropping.... Very easy for cloakers, as i cant build a minefield to defend myself from them, they just come over my bases drop some clans and will not loose a single ship...
I suggest we go to http://planets.nu/discussion/one-ship-to-rule-them-all

and come back here when we know more about the experiment

2723 days, 2 hours, 24 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Privateers may never even meet the empire in this game

http://planets.nu/discussion/one-ship-to-rule-them-all

Privateers may be screwed if they are next to Lizards, Birds or Crystals.

2723 days, 1 hours, 5 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Any cloaker race really would demolish the Empire if they can't protect themselves with minefields.

2723 days, 0 hours, 58 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The more I look at the Illwind the more i like it in this scenario.

You don't need too many to take out a fully armed SBs, has great fuel tank and good cargo.

Can hold its own against most medium ships... not too shabby.

2722 days, 20 hours, 18 minutes ago

b a n e

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Colonial & Rebel:
One word:
Gemini

There are pros & cons.

2722 days, 3 hours, 10 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Are you saying a Gemini in general or a Gemini in this particular "use only one ship" scenario?

2722 days, 2 hours, 45 minutes ago

b a n e

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

In the 1 ship scenario.
I've slept on the idea and I don't like it after refreshing my memory on Cobol & Tranquility.

2722 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Gotcha, was gonna say, combat wise, that Gemini would be struggling. Your SBs would be fully stocked though :)

2721 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes ago

b a n e

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

The Gemini fairs about as well as the Cobol or Tranquility vs the likely other race 1 ship candidates.
They get mauled.

2721 days, 19 hours, 53 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

This scenario sucks balls for the Colonies. Their #1 race advantage is nullified since they can't build a carrier.

2721 days, 19 hours, 37 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

You are right Capn it is tough but others will also be suffering.. thats part of the point of the concept.

I am taking a different approach to sucess as i think there are many achilles heals to races in this game, for me fuel is not such an issue so i will look to deprive others since there will be less developed planets further from home.

I also think in combat it will be able quantity not quality for me so it will be about the eco i can develop, again fuel will be an enabler here.

We'll see as a lot also depends on who you are next to etc.

2721 days, 19 hours, 2 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Definitely :)

Good luck to you and everyone else, should be a fun little game, wish I had the time to partake. I'll just check out your banter and comment accordingly :)

2721 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes ago

jamie

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

I like opening cans of worms! Pleased this has resulted in war, all things would simpler if it could be settled with a game of nu! Shame I missed the boat, although I would have thrown a curve and gone for the Oynx a cloud of them you can take as long as you like colonising when all the planets are heated to 100. Although this would've ruined the emerald v resolute debate. As the Oynx couldn't be used as a bio weapon for any other race so isn't the most versatile..

2721 days, 6 hours, 18 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Ha! Wouldn't have thought of it myself. Onyx heating all planets to 100, decent sweeper can lay mines. Good idea.

2721 days, 4 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

Onyx would have the same trouble as saber. Small cargo=small cash income=insufficient numbers to be effective. Besides, Crystals can plop 1000 clans on temp 1 and better than that on everything warmer. Finally, are you really going to select against Emerald?

It's cargo alone gives the Crystals the only bonafide freighter.

2719 days, 4 hours, 0 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.

No, I wouldn't select it against the Emerald, but it is an interesting strategy nontheless.
The definition of versatlity is that the ship has to be able to do many different things reasonably well.
Fuel, Cargo, Fight. Defend.
If the ship can't do these four things then I would not name it versatile.

2714 days, 21 hours, 54 minutes ago

RE: Most Versatile ship in the game.